On 8/13/2021 4:17 AM, Paul wrote:
> Ken Blake wrote:
>
>> Speaking of cases and power supplies, I'm planning on getting a new
>> computer (my present one isn't compatible with Windows 11), probably
>> next month.
>>
>> Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Chassis with Window Cases PH-ES614P_BK,Black
>>
>> Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold SLI/Crossfire Ready Ultra Quiet
>> 140mm Hydraulic Bearing Smart Zero Fan Full Modular Power Supply
>>
>> Motherboard - ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s
>> Micro ATX Intel motherboard
>>
>> CPU Intel Core i9-10900
>>
>> CPU Cooler - be quiet! 250W TDP Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU Cooler with Silent
>> Wings - PWM Fan - 135mm
>>
>> RAM - CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR4 (PC4
>> 28800) Int Model CMK32GX4M2D3600C18
>>
>> M2 Drive - Seagate Firecuda 520 2TB Performance Internal Solid State
>> Drive SSD PCIe Gen4 X4 NVMe 1.3
>>
>> DVD Drive - ASUS DRW-24F1ST - DVD SATA SUPERMULTI Burner - SERIAL ATA -
>> BLACK - OEM Bulk Drive
>>
>> No graphics card, two VGA monitors.
>>
>> two 2TB hard drives + 2TB M.2 PCIe4 Firecuda 520
>>
>> The total cost should be just under $1,500. I'll keep my present
>> keyboard, mouse, and two 24" monitors, all of which I like.
>>
>> With the help of a friend who is much younger and is much better at this
>> sort of thing than I am, I'll build it. (Actually, he'll probably do
>> most of the building).
>>
>> I'll have a total of 32GB of RAM, and 6GB of disk space, and both are
>> more than I need now, but I like to plan ahead for the
>> future.
>> --
>> Ken
>
> Firecuda 520 needs 11th generation processor for CPU-interface PCIE4 lanes
>
> That's 11900 rather than 10900.

Ouch! That's a substantial increment in price. But if that's what I
need, so be it. I just modified my shopping list.

Thanks very much.

The 10900 results in the M.2 socket next
> to the processor, not working. There is one Gigabyte brand board that
> uses a switch to solve this, but not in a satisfactory way. And I notice
> this detail is catching home builders off guard, as they're reaming the
> motherboard in Newegg reviews for "M.2 near CPU does not work". That detail
> is in the manuals, if you read enough of those manuals.
>
> One difference is, 11900 is 8C 16T as a processor, whereas
> 10900 is 10C 20T as a processor
>
> and that is only important, in as much as it fools Windows 11
> into allocating one more core for maintenance work. (If a
> maintenance activity was multi-threaded, this would help a tiny
> bit with it finishing faster. Unfortunately, Windows Update
> is an example of something that cannot be accelerated that way.
> Only turboing up to 5.2GHz helps, and that doesn't help an
> infinite amount.)
>
> *******
>
> 10900 is tenth generation. 11900 is eleventh generation (PCIe 4 to Firecuda 520)
>
> 10th & 11th Gen Processor Single Multi Rip
> PL1 Power (W) PL2 Power (W) Tau(Sec) MSRP? Thread Thread Offs
> Core i9-10900K 125 250 56 $488.00 3164 23944 $540 \__ PCIe3 M.2
> Core i9-10900 65 224 28 $439.00 3073 20815 $420 /
> Core i9-11900K 125 251 56 $539.00 3490 25554 $550 \__ PCIe4 M.2
> Core i9-11900 65 224 28/56 $439.00 3488 23535 $530 /
>
> (One of many articles, describing the hell of trying to bench or
> compare computing solutions, when the power numbers are all over the place)
>
> https://www.anandtech.com/show/16343/intel-core-i710700-vs-core-i710700k-review-is-65w-comet-lake-an-option/2
>
> https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544/why-intel-processors-draw-more-power-than-expected-tdp-turbo
>
> (eye-opener, on what some of the motherboards allow. This could allow your 2.8GHz
> CPU choice, to run at 3.6 or 3.7GHz all day long, assuming cooling works. Raises
> TDP from 65W to 125W or so, makes better usage of monster cooler.)
>
> https://wccftech.com/intel-comet-lake-non-k-cpus-power-limit-overclocking-asus-asrock-msi-h470-b460-h410-motherboards-detailed/
>
> The choices determine whether we can justify the Dark Rock monster
> cooler or not. With the "Intel default" choice, perhaps a smaller
> cooler could be used (not a Hyper212).
>
> Four coolers. The "watts" rating is not the best method,
> while Theta_R would be preferred. Watts rating used,
> if not all coolers can be compared fairly.
> nh-D15 does support LGA1200.
>
> noctua nh-D15 183 watts 0.09 ? 1.320kg tower, conservative watts estimate, does support LGA1200
> dark rock pro 4 250 watts 0.11 ? 1.130kg tower-side-exhaust
> dark rock TF 2 230 watts 0.945kg blow-down-on-VCore (ships Aug10 2021)
> noctua nh-u14s 130 watts 0.115C/W 0.771kg tower-side-single-fan
>
> The two companies obviously do not do "Watts estimates" the same way.
> But nobody gives theta_R, even though they know exactly what that is.
>
> TF-2 pressing against a DIMM... From review Tuesday Aug10 2021
>
> https://static.tweaktown.com/content/9/8/9891_24_be-quiet-dark-rock-tf-2-cpu-cooler-review.jpg
>
> ( https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/9891/be-quiet-dark-rock-tf-2-cpu-cooler/index.html )
>
> But it does cool the guys VCore right down to ambient :-) Pretty funny.
> Obviously not a load test.
>
> In the review here, the reviewer manages to turn the cooler, so nothing bumps.
> This motherboard is a Z490 with LGA1200 socket. Coolers vary in degree of
> rotation. Some rotate to the four compass points. Some rotate 180 degrees
> only. And some don't rotate at all. The mounting scheme helps determine
> rotation options. Sometimes when they rotate to the four compass points,
> things get in the way of some of the choices.
>
> (Assumes bottom mounting plate doesn't crush any SMT caps. Needs to be
> checked of course.) When rotating a cooler, the builder has to check that
> no cylindrical caps are in the way, nor SMT caps under the bottom plate.
> I notice the bloody PCB does not have the white paint line showing
> the keep-out area, where the big caps are supposed to stay out of.
>
> https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/be-quiet-dark-rock-tf-2-review
>
> What do we learn ? Well, not much.
>
> The B560 and Z590 may have differences in BIOS thermal settings.
> The VCore design allows slightly different capabilities. (That's
> because some of the boards have more DrMOS phases than others.
> All the way from 11+2 to 14+2.)
>
> https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel-core-i7-10700-draws-more-power-than-the-10700k-under-load-despite-lower-tdp-rating/
>
> https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel-11th-gen-rocket-lake-s-cpu-power-consumption-difference-b-w-turbo-boost-thermal-velocity-boost-and-adaptive-boost/
>
> The dark rock pro 4 ensures the CPU stays cool, but does
> nothing for the VCore components. The TF 2 is less good
> as a CPU cooler, but cools VCore a bit. The TF 2 is also
> lighter. More than a kilogram (2.2 pounds) is not particularly
> the best thing for the socket area. I built a little stand
> to hold up the nh-D15 on mine, but this also makes it hard to
> do anything inside the case. I would redesign the heat
> sink suspension if doing it again, and try another method.
> To do it right, requires drilling the computer case, and
> that means the entire thing has to be taken apart again,
> so the shavings don't go places they don't belong.
>
> For the project that used the cheesy Intel cooler (65W), of course
> stuff like that doesn't need anything to hold it up, and
> the PCB is strong enough for the job. It's when the heatsink
> is extremely heavy, and the computer case stands upright,
> the weight "tugs" on the heatsink. It's suspended sideways
> when the case stands up.
>
> Paul
>

--
Ken