On 8/9/2021 10:32 AM, Paul wrote:

Thanks again for all the info below, but me let ask my other questions
again:

So if I understand you correctly, you think this [MSI Z590-A PRO LGA
1200 Intel Z590 SATA 6Gb/s ATX] would be a better choice for me than the
ASUS H570 or one of the ASUS Z590s. Am I right? Can you explain why?

Am I right that the MSI motherboard above has one HDMI port and one DP
port? If so, can I just buy a VGA to DP adapter instead of the second
VGA0HDMI adapter I was planning on? Will that be just as good?

Or do you think I'd be better off with the ZOTAC GeForce GT 710 2GB DDR3
PCI-E2.0 DL-DVI VGA HDMI Passive Cooled Single Slot Low Profile Graphics
Card (ZT-71302-20L) ($70 on Amazon) instead? If so, can you tell me why?

Unless you recommend against it, I think I'm leaning toward the Zotac
videocard, since it has one VGA port and I wouldn't have to rely on
adapters for both monitors. It also support three monitors and perhaps
some day I might want to add a third one.

Do you think I'd be better off with a different cooler? What do you
recommend? There are several choices below; is one them a better choice
than the be quiet! 250W TDP Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU Cooler I had selected"?

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=intel+i910900+cpu+cooler&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

Unless you say otherwise, I think I'm going to go with the MSI
motherboard above, the Zotac video card, and either the be quiet! 250W
TDP Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU Cooler with Silent Wings - PWM Fan - 135 mm or
some other cooler if you think I should switch.

So here's the newly revised complete list (pending a different cooler
suggestion or a different motherboard you suggest):

Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Chassis with Window Cases
PH-ES614P_BK,Black 109.99 Newegg or Amazon at 109.37

Power Supply Corsair RMX Series, RM850x, 850 Watt, 80+ Gold Certified,
Fully Modular Power Supply (CP-9020180-NA) 144.88 Amazon

Motherboard MSI Z590-A PRO ProSeries Motherboard (ATX, 11th/10th Gen
Intel Core, LGA 1200 Socket, DDR4, PCIe 4, M.2 Slots, USB 3.2 Gen 2,
2.5G LAN, DP/HDMI) 169.99 Amazon

CPU Intel Core i9-10900 389.99 Amazon

CPU Cooler be quiet! 250W TDP Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU Cooler with Silent
Wings - PWM Fan - 135 mm 84.9 Amazon

RAM CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR4 (PC4 28800)
Int Model CMK32GX4M2D3600C18 189.98 Amazon

M2 Drive Seagate Firecuda 520 2TB Performance Internal Solid State Drive
SSD PCIe Gen4 X4 NVMe 1.3 394.99 Newegg

DVD Drive ASUS DRW-24F1ST - DVD SATA SUPERMULTI Burner - SERIAL ATA -
BLACK - OEM Bulk Drive 21.99 Amazon

Video Card ZOTAC GeForce GT 710 2GB DDR3 PCI-E2.0 DL-DVI VGA HDMI
Passive Cooled Single Slot Low Profile Graphics Card
(ZT-71302-20L) 69.76 Amazon

Total 1574.52

> Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 8/8/2021 5:31 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-08 6:53 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On 8/8/2021 4:46 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> On 8/8/2021 3:30 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/8/2021 3:22 PM, Paul wrote:
>>>>>>> Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So if I understand you correctly, unless a really good buy for
>>>>>>>> something else comes along, you think I should stick with
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s
>>>>>>>> Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> be quiet! 250W TDP Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU Cooler with Silent Wings -
>>>>>>>> PWM Fan - 135 mm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and no video card.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am I right?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, having changed the PSU to one you recommended, the complete
>>>>>>>> list of components now is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Chassis with Window Cases
>>>>>>>> PH-ES614P_BK,Black 109.99 Newegg
>>>>>>>> Power Supply Corsair RMX Series, RM850x, 850 Watt, 80+ Gold
>>>>>>>> Certified, Fully Modular Power Supply (CP-9020180-NA)
>>>>>>>> 144.88 Amazon
>>>>>>>> Motherboard ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA
>>>>>>>> 6Gb/s Micro ATX Intel Motherboard 134.99 Newegg
>>>>>>>> CPU Intel Core i9-10900 389.99 Amazon
>>>>>>>> CPU Cooler be quiet! 250W TDP Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU Cooler with
>>>>>>>> Silent Wings - PWM Fan - 135
>>>>>>>> mm 84.9
>>>>>>>> Amazon
>>>>>>>> RAM CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR4
>>>>>>>> (PC4 28800) Int Model CMK32GX4M2D3600C18 189.98 Amazon
>>>>>>>> M2 Drive Seagate Firecuda 520 2TB Performance Internal Solid
>>>>>>>> State Drive SSD PCIe Gen4 X4 NVMe
>>>>>>>> 1.3 394.99
>>>>>>>> Newegg
>>>>>>>> DVD Drive ASUS DRW-24F1ST - DVD SATA SUPERMULTI Burner -
>>>>>>>> SERIAL ATA - BLACK - OEM Bulk Drive 21.99 Amazon
>>>>>>>> For a total price of $1,471.71 Unless I hear otherwise from you
>>>>>>>> or a better price on something better comes along, that's
>>>>>>>> what I'll go with.
>>>>>>>> Many thanks, once more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can warn you about the issues I've seen, but you
>>>>>>> are in control of the feature set.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I'm in control, but I greatly respect your views and
>>>>>> recommendations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't looked at
>>>>>>> all the 590 ones, to conclude they're all bad bargains.
>>>>>>> But I'm just not seeing them "lean" the way they used to.
>>>>>>> You could go up $50 in price, and fill up the I/O plate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you think there's one for about $50 more that would be a better
>>>>>> choice for me, please recommend it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been looking for a full ATX Intel 1200 motherboard that has PCIe4
>>>>> and two monitor port (either two VGA or VGA and HDMI) and having no
>>>>> success. Do you know of one you can recommend?
>>>>>
>>>>> Alternatively I could get a full-ATX motherboard with PCIe4 and just an
>>>>> HDMI or VGA port and an inexpensive video card with a VGA port.
>>>>>
>>>
>>> This is where we must be careful of where we step, You can NOT run
>>> graphics from both the CPU/GPU and a discrete video card at the same
>>> time, As soon as you install the video card it shuts down the CPU/GPU,
>>> so its one or the other but not both at the same time.
>>
>>
>> Thanks very much. My hardware ignorance is showing again; I didn't know
>> that.
>>
>>
>>> So you have to use the onboard HDMI and Displayport with an adapter for
>>> one or install a video card with the VGA and HDMI ports you need.
>>> Your ASUS H570 is a decent M/B but the ZOLTEC GT710 is really the
>>> bottom of the line and may not do justice to your 2 x 24 inch monitors.
>>> Finding a modern M/B with VGA is nearly impossible
>>
>>
>> ...yes, that's been my experience over the last few days, but...
>>
>>
>>> as was being phased
>>> out by the HDMI and Display-port protocols.
>>
>> ...I didn't know the reason.
>>
>> It looks like I'll have to buy a second HDMI-VGA adapter to use both my
>> monitors on a modern full-ATX motherboard.
>>
>> So assuming that I don't get the ASRock because it's a mini-ATX
>> motherboard, I think my choices are down to
>>
>>
>> ASUS Prime H570 Plus ($140)
>>
>> ASUS Prime Z590-M Plus ($175)
>>
>> ASUS Prime Z590-P ($183)
>>
>> Asus Prime Z890-V ($175)
>>
>> Asus Prime Z590-A ($262)
>>
>> What's the significance of the letters following the Z590? What does
>> "Plus" mean? What are the differences between all those choices? Which
>> one do you recommend and why?
>>
>> Or if you have a different recommendation, please tell me.
>>
>> Thanks very much again.
>
> The -V would have been video at one time, implying
> Northbridge GPU. In this case, it is a 590 board with
> HDMI and DP connectors. So at least the "V" got us two
> connectors :-)
>
> The P used to stand for things like P35, which is
> a Northbridge without a GPU.
>
> The A could stand for wifi AX module, but other than that,
> it is just a letter of the alphabet. AMD has A for APU, but this
> is an Intel board so that's not it. The A in this case, does not
> come with Wifi in the box.
>
> The P and A don't seem to have a purpose, really.
>
> The M is microATX 9.6"x9.6". Note that the "width" dimension
> on motherboards, is a function of purchase price. A 7" wide board
> is dumpster material. They gradually become wider, until the
> third column of holes appears and you can bolt down the motherboard
> properly. So whether we're talking 12x9.6 or 9.6x9.6, the trailing
> width number could be as low as 7.0 and as high as 9.6. When it
> gets close to full width, you get nine mounting holes instead of
> six mounting holes. An unsupported board on the right hand edge,
> bends when you insert RAM.
>
> Sometimes, a pink pencil eraser or two, strategically placed, may
> function as support for insertion, while extraction is via the
> RAM levers.
>
> Some RAM slots have two levers. Some RAM slots have only one lever,
> and the lever on the video card side is missing. That's because, to
> work a lever which is pressed up against the back of the video card
> is not possible. DIMM slots moved away from the video card a bit, the
> lever there would work, so they use a two-lever DIMM slot. While the
> one lever slots work, there will be occasional cursing and swearing
> during maintenance operations.
>
> The reason for worrying about RAM access, is RAM needs to be tested
> yearly for failures (memtest). Sometimes, to isolate to the nearest
> stick, the config needs to be modified. And that's when your cooler
> choice that doesn't allow the RAM to be removed is a BIG problem.
> In a car, the equivalent is needing to lift the engine block to
> change the fourth spark plug.
>
> *******
>
> There are three flavors of Thunderbolt.
>
> 1) "Thunderbolt Header"
>
> Unfortunately, this is a sham offering. It really has nothing to
> do with Thunderbolt and should be ignored. The pins in fact, are
> GPIO logic pins, for switching things on and off. Like a set of
> light switches. The cable from this, goes to a proprietary board
> which is not for sale. The Proprietary $$$ board has a Thunderbolt
> chip on it. The board plugs into a PCIe x4 or wider slot. The board
> may have miniDP connectors on the faceplate, for looping miniDP from
> your NVidia video card, through Thunderbolt.
>
> The proprietary board has not been "certified" yet, by Intel.
>
> But the header itself is trash, and is a mechanism to ensure the
> Asus option card is only used on an Asus motherboard. It's a lock and
> key connector, for proving authentic usage (Asus optional with Asus board).
>
> 2) "Thunderbolr"
>
> This gives high rate data transfer, for that Apple RAID array you used
> to have plugged to your Apple box.
>
> 3) "Thunderbolt with miniDP per TB channel"
>
> Could be two miniDP with two Thunderbolt connectors, for loop through.
> This would be the full-featured implementation, with a Maple Ridge
> on the motherboard.
>
> Paul
>

--
Ken