Does this yearly subscription stuff by AV companies mean you lose the
ability to update the virus database after your "subscription"
expires, or does it mean that you simply cannot update the program
after a year. but still can update the virus database?

I'm asking this here because the virus/security groups seem to be dead
these days.

Merle,

> Does this yearly subscription stuff by AV companies mean you
> lose the ability to update the virus database after your "subscription"
> expires, or does it mean that you simply cannot update the program
> after a year. but still can update the virus database?

After the subscription ends its more than likely you can neither update the
program nor the virus database.

Both the program itself and the virus database cost money to maintain.
Costs that need to be payed by the customers, otherwise the company will
ultimatily go under due to a lack of funds.

Than again, each AV company may offer you their own deals, depending on how
much money you wish to spend on your subscription. IOW, there is no single
answer to be given here.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 08:56:58, R.Wieser <address@not.available> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
>Merle,
>
>> Does this yearly subscription stuff by AV companies mean you
>> lose the ability to update the virus database after your "subscription"
>> expires, or does it mean that you simply cannot update the program
>> after a year. but still can update the virus database?
>
>After the subscription ends its more than likely you can neither update the
>program nor the virus database.
>
>Both the program itself and the virus database cost money to maintain.
>Costs that need to be payed by the customers, otherwise the company will
>ultimatily go under due to a lack of funds.
>
>Than again, each AV company may offer you their own deals, depending on how
>much money you wish to spend on your subscription. IOW, there is no single
>answer to be given here.
>
>Regards,
>Rudy Wieser
>
>
Indeed; it will vary from program to program.

A lot of software, when it reaches the end of the trial period, reverts
to the more limited free version; whether that applies to one where
you've actually paid for it, or whether AV software generally does this,
I don't know.

Was this just a general question, or do you have a specific AV suite in
mind? If you do, and have paid for it, which one, and why did you pay?
(I'm not saying you shouldn't, just curious.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never rely on somebody else for your happiness.
- Bette Davis, quoted by Celia Imrie, RT 2014/3/12-18

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 08:56:58 +0200, "R.Wieser" <address@not.available>
wrote:

>Merle,
>
>> Does this yearly subscription stuff by AV companies mean you
>> lose the ability to update the virus database after your "subscription"
>> expires, or does it mean that you simply cannot update the program
>> after a year. but still can update the virus database?

I cannot understand why I cannot get a clear answer to this question
in any group to which I posted it.

There MUST people reading it who have the paid-for versions of these
AVs and know the simple, definitive answer to the question.

>After the subscription ends its more than likely you can neither update the
>program nor the virus database.

"Likely" does not answer the question.

>Both the program itself and the virus database cost money to maintain.
>Costs that need to be payed by the customers, otherwise the company will
>ultimatily go under due to a lack of funds.

Gee, why didn't I think of that.

>Than again, each AV company may offer you their own deals, depending on how
>much money you wish to spend on your subscription. IOW, there is no single
>answer to be given here.

There certainly is. All it takes it for one of the millions who are
AV subscribers to answer the question.

>Regards,
>Rudy Wieser
>

<Merle@invalid.com> wrote

| I cannot understand why I cannot get a clear answer to this question
| in any group to which I posted it.
|

Did you check the companies? If you do I expect
you'll find that it's not easy to answer your question.
Usually it's not easy to even find the free versions.
They run you in circles with bait and switch, deceptive
notices like "free download!", etc. It's worse than car
salesmen.
Increasingly, it's not easy to have any part in managing
software. Once you give them your credit card they just
do their thing and you accept it.

I was once using free Avast, which I installed on a friend's
computer, when it told me there was an update available. The
"update" turned out to be the paid version. I had to uninstall it
and start over. That kind of sleaze is typical. It helps them to
trick or mislead 95% of customers.

Generally their business model is to provide basic protection for
free, but with lots of tricks and nags. They make their money
by charging companies. As a non-commercial customer you pay
for the extras, if you want them, but those are usually not
necessary... At least that was how it worked last time I looked.

Personally I haven't used AV for about 20 years and wouldn't
allow such bloated crap on my system. Nor would I accept
rental software. But I do install free AV for
friends who don't know how to protect their systems. If you
want to use it, and you're going to accept the rental software,
then you get what they give you. There's no sense getting mad
at other people because they don't know how to help you cheat
the system. And what does it matter, anyway? If you can't get
virus definition updates then what good is the software? AV is
used by people who believe in the theory that a computer with
daily AV updates, dragging under the weight of hyper-bloated AV
software running 300 MB of definition filters, is a safe computer. :)

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 06:52:36, Merle@invalid.com wrote (my responses
usually follow points raised):
>On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 08:56:58 +0200, "R.Wieser" <address@not.available>
>wrote:
>
>>Merle,
>>
>>> Does this yearly subscription stuff by AV companies mean you
>>> lose the ability to update the virus database after your "subscription"
>>> expires, or does it mean that you simply cannot update the program
>>> after a year. but still can update the virus database?
>
>I cannot understand why I cannot get a clear answer to this question
>in any group to which I posted it.

Because you didn't say which AV suite you're talking about. It may vary
between companies; most people reading your question will only have
experience of one or two, especially the paid version.
>
>There MUST people reading it who have the paid-for versions of these
>AVs and know the simple, definitive answer to the question.

If so, only one or two. You phrased your question in general terms, by
saying "AV companies".
>
>>After the subscription ends its more than likely you can neither update the
>>program nor the virus database.
>
>"Likely" does not answer the question.

It's the best Rudy (or anyone) can do given the question.
I've never had a paid one. IME, even the free ones update both the prog.
and the database update frequently; AIUI, paying users sometimes get
updates a few hours earlier (which could be important!), and get more
versatile/flexible software.
>
>>Both the program itself and the virus database cost money to maintain.
>>Costs that need to be payed by the customers, otherwise the company will
>>ultimatily go under due to a lack of funds.
>
>Gee, why didn't I think of that.

Keep up that attitude, and you'll find fewer people willing to give you
their time - for free, remember.
>
>>Than again, each AV company may offer you their own deals, depending on how
>>much money you wish to spend on your subscription. IOW, there is no single
>>answer to be given here.
>
>There certainly is. All it takes it for one of the millions who are
>AV subscribers to answer the question.

No. It would have to be someone who has paid subscriptions to all
possible AV sources, or at least a majority of the common ones; I doubt
any such person exists, other than perhaps a magazine journalist doing a
feature on AVs or similar, who is not going to post his answer here -
they'll want you to read their article in the magazine (real or online).

If you ask about a _specific_ AV, you'll probably get an answer (though
perhaps not after the above: usenetters are easily induced to start
ignoring you - I know from experience).
>
>>Regards,
>>Rudy Wieser
>>
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni, Vidi, Video (I came, I saw, I'll watch it again later) - Mik from S+AS
Limited (mik@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 08:18:10 -0400, "Mayayana"
<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

><Merle@invalid.com> wrote
>
>| I cannot understand why I cannot get a clear answer to this question
>| in any group to which I posted it.
>|
>
> Did you check the companies? If you do I expect
>you'll find that it's not easy to answer your question.
>Usually it's not easy to even find the free versions.
>They run you in circles with bait and switch, deceptive
>notices like "free download!", etc. It's worse than car
>salesmen.

I took it for granted when I used the term "subscription" that
everyone would understand I was speaking of the paid-for version.

> Increasingly, it's not easy to have any part in managing
>software. Once you give them your credit card they just
>do their thing and you accept it.

No way does anyone "do their thing" with my credit card. As soon as I
see the invoice - online or offline, and they did their "thing" with
it, I would - and have on occasion, canceled the payment with the bank
immediately.

> I was once using free Avast, which I installed on a friend's
>computer, when it told me there was an update available. The
>"update" turned out to be the paid version. I had to uninstall it
>and start over. That kind of sleaze is typical. It helps them to
>trick or mislead 95% of customers.

I'm well aware of the problems with "freeware". One thing I did find
out from experience is that you MUST read every line, every dot of
what they place on your screen before hitting Enter. Only the most
corrupt do dirty deeds without warning.

> Generally their business model is to provide basic protection for
>free, but with lots of tricks and nags. They make their money
>by charging companies. As a non-commercial customer you pay
>for the extras, if you want them, but those are usually not
>necessary... At least that was how it worked last time I looked.
>
> Personally I haven't used AV for about 20 years and wouldn't
>allow such bloated crap on my system. Nor would I accept
>rental software. But I do install free AV for
>friends who don't know how to protect their systems. If you
>want to use it, and you're going to accept the rental software,
>then you get what they give you. There's no sense getting mad
>at other people because they don't know how to help you cheat
>the system. And what does it matter, anyway? If you can't get
>virus definition updates then what good is the software? AV is
>used by people who believe in the theory that a computer with
>daily AV updates, dragging under the weight of hyper-bloated AV
>software running 300 MB of definition filters, is a safe computer. :)
>

I don't use an AV, either. I keep my box sandboxed. However, I was
curious as to if just maybe I had a bugger hiding somewhere on my box
that was there before I used the sandbox method. That's when I began
screwing around with these things, trying to find one to do a simple
scan of my files. If something did come up, I'd never trust the AV
itself to delete or do whatever with a file. I'd upload it to
VirusTotal.

Finally, it seems to me if someone is buying an AV, it damn well says
somewhere as to the life of the "subscription", and whether it
pertains to merely the program or the databases also.

I cannot believe that people who pay the outrageous sums wanted today
for a "top" AV do not know what the hey they are buying. But it must
be so, otherwise someone would have given me a definitive answer by
now.

I did find one freebie that is simple as hell, and seemingly works
without trying to take control of your whole machine with their
invasive nonsense. The simple freebie I found it AVZ by Kaspersky.
All it does is the simple stuff AVs used to do years ago.

This is ridiculous. No one knows such a simple dang answer to a
seemingly simple dang question.

You know, just for the helluva it, I'm going to try to do the
impossible and get an answer on this from a couple of the companies -
and I WILL make it clear I'm asking about the PAID-FOR version.

Whew!

Merle,

> I cannot understand why I cannot get a clear answer to this
> question in any group to which I posted it.
>
> There MUST people reading it who have the paid-for versions of these
> AVs and know the simple, definitive answer to the question.

I on my end cannot fathom why you think that a single definitive answer is
even possible to your question.

Question: What is the price of a new car ? If you cannot answer that, why
? Don't you think the same goes for AV products ?

>>Both the program itself and the virus database cost money to maintain.
>>Costs that need to be payed by the customers, otherwise the company will
>>ultimatily go under due to a lack of funds.
>
> Gee, why didn't I think of that.

If you are aware of that, than how come you think you can just continue to
use for free what you where paying for in the last subscription period ?
That doesn't make much (commercial) sense, now does it ?

> There certainly is.

No there isn't.

> All it takes it for one of the millions who are AV subscribers to
> answer the question.

No. You than just have the answer to *their* specific AV product.

The moment someone using a different AV product (possibly even from the same
company!) also responds you will probably go into a kind of brain-freeze, as
that violates your "simple, definitive answer" requirement/demand. Rinse
and repeat for all the other AV products out there.

Goodbye.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 15:11:26 +0200, "R.Wieser" <address@not.available>
wrote:

>Merle,
>
>> I cannot understand why I cannot get a clear answer to this
>> question in any group to which I posted it.
>>
>> There MUST people reading it who have the paid-for versions of these
>> AVs and know the simple, definitive answer to the question.
>
>I on my end cannot fathom why you think that a single definitive answer is
>even possible to your question.
>
>Question: What is the price of a new car ? If you cannot answer that, why
>? Don't you think the same goes for AV products ?

I never asked for the price. Quit twisting the answers to fit your
hurt ego.

>>>Both the program itself and the virus database cost money to maintain.
>>>Costs that need to be payed by the customers, otherwise the company will
>>>ultimatily go under due to a lack of funds.
>>
>> Gee, why didn't I think of that.
>
>If you are aware of that, than how come you think you can just continue to
>use for free what you where paying for in the last subscription period ?
>That doesn't make much (commercial) sense, now does it ?

You have totally misunderstood the question.

I never complained about the time length of a subscription. I merely
asked is the one year term was for both the program updates and the
virus database updates. Again you're twisting what I posted.

>> There certainly is.
>
>No there isn't.
>
>> All it takes it for one of the millions who are AV subscribers to
>> answer the question.
>
>No. You than just have the answer to *their* specific AV product.

When every single AV company that I'm aware posts the length of
subscription, a buyer should have a clear idea as to the terms of his
purchase, and whether it means his current program will not update
past a year but is still usuable with the definitions it has, or does
it mean the progam itself also expires.

Difficult concept, eh?

>The moment someone using a different AV product (possibly even from the same
>company!) also responds you will probably go into a kind of brain-freeze, as
>that violates your "simple, definitive answer" requirement/demand. Rinse
>and repeat for all the other AV products out there.

What does "different" AVs have to do with my question? EVERY AV
company lists in their ads what the length of a subscription is. What
I'm asking is not about the length itself, but does that mean for both
the program and the updated virus database. Will the program still
work with the latest database it downloaded before the subscription
expired, or will the program itself stop working.

Whew! How complicated is that to have understood from my SIMPLE
question?

>Goodbye.
>
>Regards,
>Rudy Wieser
>

<Merle@invalid.com> wrote

| I cannot believe that people who pay the outrageous sums wanted today
| for a "top" AV do not know what the hey they are buying. But it must
| be so, otherwise someone would have given me a definitive answer by
| now.
| I don't think most people have any idea how to start to
understand. The rental model makes it worse. Lots of people
feel they just have to have Office 365 or Adobe CS, for work
or school. There isn't much choice. You just give them your
credit card. And it's worse if you don't understand how it works.
If you don't download copies of all your files in standard formats
then you might lose them all if you end the subscription, for
example.

My very elderly father got mad a few years ago when he
bought a new computer and understood that it came with
MS Office and Norton System Works. After all, their logo
stickers were right there on the front of the computer. But
after 3 months they wanted him to pay. It was only a 3
month trials to get him hooked. I imagine lots of people fall
for that. They don't even understand what version of Windows
they're using, so it doesn't occur to them that a computer
with pre-installed MS Office might just be a scam ad.

Just as lots of people fall for Comcast or Verizon
advertising $99.99 in big type, with loads of small print that
I can't even read with my glasses on. When you do manage
to read it, it turns out that there's actually no way to determine
the actual cost of the "special deal", which will expire after
a year, anyway. But people want their Internet and cable TV.
And regulators have gone missing. I found the same with
cellphone plans. Not one provider was willing to tell me what the
actual bill would say after adding in all the trumped up taxes,
fees, and non-included services.

| I did find one freebie that is simple as hell, and seemingly works
| without trying to take control of your whole machine with their
| invasive nonsense. The simple freebie I found it AVZ by Kaspersky.
| All it does is the simple stuff AVs used to do years ago.
|

I've also used free, portable versions before, for one-time checks.

| I'm going to try to do the
impossible and get an answer on this from a couple of the companies
|

I'd be interested to hear the results of you investigation... and
whether you have to give them a credit card before they'll answer...
"You can cancel at any time." :)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote

| >>> Does this yearly subscription stuff by AV companies mean you
| >>> lose the ability to update the virus database after your
"subscription"
| >>> expires, or does it mean that you simply cannot update the program
| >>> after a year. but still can update the virus database?
| >
| >I cannot understand why I cannot get a clear answer to this question
| >in any group to which I posted it.
| | Because you didn't say which AV suite you're talking about. It may vary
| between companies; most people reading your question will only have
| experience of one or two, especially the paid version.

I took it as a general question and it made sense that way.
I suspect they're probably doing doing pretty much the same
thing.

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 10:52:48 -0400, "Mayayana"
<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

><Merle@invalid.com> wrote
>
>| I cannot believe that people who pay the outrageous sums wanted today
>| for a "top" AV do not know what the hey they are buying. But it must
>| be so, otherwise someone would have given me a definitive answer by
>| now.
>|
> I don't think most people have any idea how to start to
>understand. The rental model makes it worse. Lots of people
>feel they just have to have Office 365 or Adobe CS, for work
>or school. There isn't much choice. You just give them your
>credit card. And it's worse if you don't understand how it works.
>If you don't download copies of all your files in standard formats
>then you might lose them all if you end the subscription, for
>example.
>
> My very elderly father got mad a few years ago when he
>bought a new computer and understood that it came with
>MS Office and Norton System Works. After all, their logo
>stickers were right there on the front of the computer. But
>after 3 months they wanted him to pay. It was only a 3
>month trials to get him hooked. I imagine lots of people fall
>for that. They don't even understand what version of Windows
>they're using, so it doesn't occur to them that a computer
>with pre-installed MS Office might just be a scam ad.

Boy! Things have changed. I've owned the comps I have for so many
years that it seems I'm totally out of touch with the business. Never
when I got my comps did any such thing as rental software come on
computers.

My wife retired from being the software teacher for a law firm that
occupied 5 or 6 floors in downtown Chicago. The stories I've heard
from her regarding the ignorance of even those secretaries who use
computers 8 hour a day were astonishing. To this day while in her
eighties she still helps out her friends and acquaintances with their
usage problems. It is beyond me how these people who have owned comps
for some years have never even thought of clicking on the Help button
in Windows or any other program.

> Just as lots of people fall for Comcast or Verizon
>advertising $99.99 in big type, with loads of small print that
>I can't even read with my glasses on. When you do manage
>to read it, it turns out that there's actually no way to determine
>the actual cost of the "special deal", which will expire after
>a year, anyway. But people want their Internet and cable TV.
>And regulators have gone missing. I found the same with
>cellphone plans. Not one provider was willing to tell me what the
>actual bill would say after adding in all the trumped up taxes,
>fees, and non-included services.

Yeah, I noticed that nonsense of them never saying what the cost is
going to be after your Super Savings time is up.

>
>| I did find one freebie that is simple as hell, and seemingly works
>| without trying to take control of your whole machine with their
>| invasive nonsense. The simple freebie I found it AVZ by Kaspersky.
>| All it does is the simple stuff AVs used to do years ago.
>|
>
> I've also used free, portable versions before, for one-time checks.
>
>| I'm going to try to do the
>impossible and get an answer on this from a couple of the companies
>|
>
> I'd be interested to hear the results of you investigation... and
>whether you have to give them a credit card before they'll answer...
>"You can cancel at any time." :)
>

There is no way I'm giving them my credit card info when I'm merely
asking a question. Are people really that dumb these days?

I'm definitely going to try to get some info out of those AV outfits.
But it'll be 3 or 4 days before I start it. I just had cataract
surgery done on my second eye. It's going to be some days before my
eyes straighten out enuf to spend time doing back & forths with them.
Typing patchy junk like this on Usenet is hard enuf right now - I just
got back from the eye butcher about an hour ago. The protective
plastic shield one has to wear for the first day over the eye makes it
a bit difficult to read this stuff.

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 10:54:43 -0400, "Mayayana"
<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote
>
>| >>> Does this yearly subscription stuff by AV companies mean you
>| >>> lose the ability to update the virus database after your
>"subscription"
>| >>> expires, or does it mean that you simply cannot update the program
>| >>> after a year. but still can update the virus database?
>| >
>| >I cannot understand why I cannot get a clear answer to this question
>| >in any group to which I posted it.
>|
>| Because you didn't say which AV suite you're talking about. It may vary
>| between companies; most people reading your question will only have
>| experience of one or two, especially the paid version.
>
> I took it as a general question and it made sense that way.
>I suspect they're probably doing doing pretty much the same
>thing.
>

There is no way I would ever expect that the policy would be any
different between AV companies. There might be some smaller one
fighting for a place in the heiarchy of AV companies who might be a
bit more lenient in what happens after a subscription expires, but I
think that would be a exception.

I just damn curious now. I will explore this after my sight recovers.

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 13:25:33 -0500, Merle@invalid.com wrote:

>On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 10:54:43 -0400, "Mayayana"
><mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>
>>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote
>>
>>| >>> Does this yearly subscription stuff by AV companies mean you
>>| >>> lose the ability to update the virus database after your
>>"subscription"
>>| >>> expires, or does it mean that you simply cannot update the program
>>| >>> after a year. but still can update the virus database?
>>| >
>>| >I cannot understand why I cannot get a clear answer to this question
>>| >in any group to which I posted it.
>>|
>>| Because you didn't say which AV suite you're talking about. It may vary
>>| between companies; most people reading your question will only have
>>| experience of one or two, especially the paid version.
>>
>> I took it as a general question and it made sense that way.
>>I suspect they're probably doing doing pretty much the same
>>thing.
>>
>
>There is no way I would ever expect that the policy would be any
>different between AV companies. There might be some smaller one
>fighting for a place in the heiarchy of AV companies who might be a
>bit more lenient in what happens after a subscription expires, but I
>think that would be a exception.
>
>I just damn curious now. I will explore this after my sight recovers.

I tried something. I went to the Kaspersky site and selected one of
their AVs. You can download the Kaspersky EULAS from the link below.

https://products.s.kaspersky-labs.com/homeuser/kav2021/21.3.10.391/english-US-20210227_073813/3434363632347c44454c7c4e554c4c/eula_gdpr_en-us.txt

The EULA is a ton of lawyerese. Below is the closest I can find about
software expiration.

3.11. After expiration of the Software license, You may be entitled to
continue use of the Software for a defined period of time, while the
functionality of the Software may be limited. Details are available at
https://help.kaspersky.com.

As far as I'm concerned, these AV guys today are little more than
crooks. It seems the program itself is history after expiration. You
cannot keep using it with a previously downloaded virus database -
which you PAID for.

I'll stay with my freebie sandbox. Even a paid-for sandbox is a
better deal by far than squandering bucks every year on this modern AV
crap - which itself is a hundred times more vulnerable than s freebie
sandbox. People get infected every day with those junk AVs. Plus most
of them are invasive as hell. They want to interfere with perfectly
good programs.

The search for an answer to my question is done as far as I'm
concerned.

<Merle@invalid.com> wrote

| As far as I'm concerned, these AV guys today are little more than
| crooks. It seems the program itself is history after expiration. You
| cannot keep using it with a previously downloaded virus database -
| which you PAID for.
| | I'll stay with my freebie sandbox. Even a paid-for sandbox is a
| better deal by far than squandering bucks every year on this modern AV
| crap - which itself is a hundred times more vulnerable than s freebie
| sandbox. People get infected every day with those junk AVs. Plus most
| of them are invasive as hell. They want to interfere with perfectly
| good programs.
| | The search for an answer to my question is done as far as I'm
| concerned.
|

Well, it was sort of useful. Now we all know to try Kaspersky
first if we look for free AV.

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 21:26:16 -0400, "Mayayana"
<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

><Merle@invalid.com> wrote
>
>| As far as I'm concerned, these AV guys today are little more than
>| crooks. It seems the program itself is history after expiration. You
>| cannot keep using it with a previously downloaded virus database -
>| which you PAID for.
>|
>| I'll stay with my freebie sandbox. Even a paid-for sandbox is a
>| better deal by far than squandering bucks every year on this modern AV
>| crap - which itself is a hundred times more vulnerable than s freebie
>| sandbox. People get infected every day with those junk AVs. Plus most
>| of them are invasive as hell. They want to interfere with perfectly
>| good programs.
>|
>| The search for an answer to my question is done as far as I'm
>| concerned.
>|
>
> Well, it was sort of useful. Now we all know to try Kaspersky
>first if we look for free AV.
>

AVZ is extremely simple. It and a copy of Panda's Dome freebie went
through my drives and found zilch. That' all I needed from them.

Panda's Dome freebie did cause a few problems with some of my programs
because it wanted too much control. It tried demolishing my Sygate
firewall, plus it didn't like one of my TrueCrypt volumes that was
open at the time. Panda is one of those intrusive p.i.a. ones i
complain about. But it is free. If you let it have its way with your
box, it's probably okay.

Kaspersky AVZ is a really simple one that finds the bad stuff and has
choices to either quarantine, delete, or skip the file in the future.
Your choice. plus you can exclude directories, extensions or files
from its actions. It's a real goody for the price - and did I say
it's SIMPLE?

.. I'll be back to normal now using VirusTotal for anything new I
pickup somewhere. Seventy AVs - updated as updates are available, are
better than just a single one.

Okay, ‘nuf bitch'n, moaning and whining on that subject.

On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 21:52:05 -0500, Merle@invalid.com wrote:

>On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 21:26:16 -0400, "Mayayana"
><mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>
>><Merle@invalid.com> wrote

>
>Panda's Dome freebie did cause a few problems with some of my programs
>because it wanted too much control. It tried demolishing my Sygate
>firewall, plus it didn't like one of my TrueCrypt volumes that was
>open at the time. Panda is one of those intrusive p.i.a. ones i
>complain about. But it is free. If you let it have its way with your
>box, it's probably okay.
>

Panda Dome did give me a problem that I didn't mention. LIke so many
of these dang new AVs, it doesn't want to be uninstalled.

I beat it by the fact I had saved a copy of the registry before I
installed Panda. When it gave me uninstall problems I merely loaded
in the pre Panda registry copy and rebooted. With its "legs" cut out
from under it, Panda was easily deleted like any other file.

That Erunt registry saver is one of the handiest of utilities.

Now, are we done with this nonsense? I hope so. :o)

Merle@invalid.com wrote:

> Panda Dome did give me a problem that I didn't mention. LIke so many
> of these dang new AVs, it doesn't want to be uninstalled.
>
> I beat it by the fact I had saved a copy of the registry before I
> installed Panda. When it gave me uninstall problems I merely loaded
> in the pre Panda registry copy and rebooted. With its "legs" cut out
> from under it, Panda was easily deleted like any other file.
>
> That Erunt registry saver is one of the handiest of utilities.
>
> Now, are we done with this nonsense? I hope so. :o)

https://www.pandasecurity.com/en/support/card?id=82011

"Download and run the Panda Generic Uninstaller file
to the Windows Desktop, for example.

https://www.pandasecurity.com/resources/tools/uninstaller.exe
"

It can take three or four Google searches to find items
like that, because the company may already have used
the word "Cleaner" to sell one of their products :-)

Usually for the uninstaller concept, there are two possibilities.

1) Uninstaller does absolutely everything for you, destroying
a working product that is still running at the moment.

2) The other style, says to use "Programs and Features" first,
to remove the AV program the regular way. Then when you run
the "uninstaller" thing as a separate download, it does things
like scan the registry for the company name, and throw out
all the references it finds. That's why the word "Generic"
appears in some of them, because the uninstaller doesn't know
what it is cleaning up after, but the company has some standards
for registry entries, that makes them easier to remove later.

In the case of (2) type, not following the instructions correctly,
has consequences ("makes a mess of things"). For type (2), you need
a backup before you begin. A full C: partition backup.

Paul

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 10:11:16 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>Merle@invalid.com wrote:
>
>> Panda Dome did give me a problem that I didn't mention. LIke so many
>> of these dang new AVs, it doesn't want to be uninstalled.
>>
>> I beat it by the fact I had saved a copy of the registry before I
>> installed Panda. When it gave me uninstall problems I merely loaded
>> in the pre Panda registry copy and rebooted. With its "legs" cut out
>> from under it, Panda was easily deleted like any other file.
>>
>> That Erunt registry saver is one of the handiest of utilities.
>>
>> Now, are we done with this nonsense? I hope so. :o)
>
>https://www.pandasecurity.com/en/support/card?id=82011
>
> "Download and run the Panda Generic Uninstaller file
> to the Windows Desktop, for example.
>
> https://www.pandasecurity.com/resources/tools/uninstaller.exe
> "
>
>It can take three or four Google searches to find items
>like that, because the company may already have used
>the word "Cleaner" to sell one of their products :-)
>
>Usually for the uninstaller concept, there are two possibilities.
>
>1) Uninstaller does absolutely everything for you, destroying
> a working product that is still running at the moment.
>
>2) The other style, says to use "Programs and Features" first,
> to remove the AV program the regular way. Then when you run
> the "uninstaller" thing as a separate download, it does things
> like scan the registry for the company name, and throw out
> all the references it finds. That's why the word "Generic"
> appears in some of them, because the uninstaller doesn't know
> what it is cleaning up after, but the company has some standards
> for registry entries, that makes them easier to remove later.
>
>In the case of (2) type, not following the instructions correctly,
>has consequences ("makes a mess of things"). For type (2), you need
>a backup before you begin. A full C: partition backup.
>
> Paul

My way has always worked. It's simple.

Some of those uinstallers are more advertising ware than uinstallers.
They lead you around by the nose to their Web site, asking you a dozen
questions as to why you are leaving them. I don't trust that they are
not leaving something behind despite their denials.

Those AV outfits today are way beyond most people's understanding.
That damn Kaspersky some years back placed a "server" thing on my box.
Even after I used their "uninstaller" I found I had a ton of files
that somehow it had "monitored" during their download . These files
could not be opened without this Kaspersky "server" thing loading
them through itself. I couldn't believe it. I still don't understand
what the hell was going on. But somehow i did finally get rid of the
problem. I don't remember much more about it. PTSD, I guess.

I'm very untech. I gotta keep it simple - KISS principle - Keep It
Simple, Stupid. It works if you strictly adhere to it. This Safe Hex
stuff is in total compliance with Dirty Harry's advice: A man's gotta
know his limitations.

What I have learned about what used to be a simple subject - Anti AV
programs, with which all one had to do was update, have now become
stealth monsters whose main purpose is to capture your machine for the
lifetime of it, enriching the AV outfit with a dollar cost beyond
reason.

But then what the hell do i know except that my freebie Time Freeze
sandbox, along with Erunt and True Image can defeat those greedy
bastards every time.

Keep It Simple, Stupid DOES work.

Hope this all makes a little bit of sense. My cataract surgery
yesterday has left me with a bitch'n headache. I've had only 5 or 6
headaches in my entire life. Ain't used to them at all, plus i'm
allergic to aspirin. End Game: Shut the f'k up, Merle.

"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote in news:sck9dd$jbt$1@dont-
email.me:

> <Merle@invalid.com> wrote
>
>| I cannot believe that people who pay the outrageous sums wanted today
>| for a "top" AV do not know what the hey they are buying. But it must
>| be so, otherwise someone would have given me a definitive answer by
>| now.
>|
> I don't think most people have any idea how to start to
> understand. The rental model makes it worse. Lots of people
> feel they just have to have Office 365 or Adobe CS, for work
> or school. There isn't much choice. You just give them your
> credit card. And it's worse if you don't understand how it works.
> If you don't download copies of all your files in standard formats
> then you might lose them all if you end the subscription, for
> example.
>
> My very elderly father got mad a few years ago when he
> bought a new computer and understood that it came with
> MS Office and Norton System Works. After all, their logo
> stickers were right there on the front of the computer. But
> after 3 months they wanted him to pay. It was only a 3
> month trials to get him hooked. I imagine lots of people fall
> for that. They don't even understand what version of Windows
> they're using, so it doesn't occur to them that a computer
> with pre-installed MS Office might just be a scam ad.
>
> Just as lots of people fall for Comcast or Verizon
> advertising $99.99 in big type, with loads of small print that
> I can't even read with my glasses on. When you do manage
> to read it, it turns out that there's actually no way to determine
> the actual cost of the "special deal", which will expire after
> a year, anyway. But people want their Internet and cable TV.
> And regulators have gone missing. I found the same with
> cellphone plans. Not one provider was willing to tell me what the
> actual bill would say after adding in all the trumped up taxes,
> fees, and non-included services.

+1

I have Comcast at three locations. I've let the original contracted for
plan expire so that I'm not on conract. They keep wanting to sell me
more, on a new contract, than what I need, for less than I'm paying for
now, but when I question them about the fine print, they have no idea
what the 'real' new cost will be. I'd rather deal with the devil I know.

Same thing with my ATT mobile; there's four phones, all off contract.

My daughter just left ATT (no reception at her new location) for Verizon.
She took advantage of an offer to trade in her ATT iPhone (all paid for)
for a $300 credit on a new Verizon phone and unlimited data, without a
contract. I'll believe that when I see it. She was told by one agent
that this was the last day the offer was being made, so she signed up.
She later found out the offer was still ongoing. When she got her new
phone home, she found out they had not set it up correctly. She could
only make calls using wifi. Wonder what the plan and phone will really
cost.

Very sleazy and deceptive. Yes, regulators are missing.

>
>
>| I did find one freebie that is simple as hell, and seemingly works
>| without trying to take control of your whole machine with their
>| invasive nonsense. The simple freebie I found it AVZ by Kaspersky.
>| All it does is the simple stuff AVs used to do years ago.
>|
>
> I've also used free, portable versions before, for one-time checks.
>
>| I'm going to try to do the
> impossible and get an answer on this from a couple of the companies
>|
>
> I'd be interested to hear the results of you investigation... and
> whether you have to give them a credit card before they'll answer...
> "You can cancel at any time." :)
>
>
>

On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 18:05:49 -0000 (UTC), Boris
<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote in news:sck9dd$jbt$1@dont-
>email.me:
>
>> <Merle@invalid.com> wrote
>>
>>| I cannot believe that people who pay the outrageous sums wanted today
>>| for a "top" AV do not know what the hey they are buying. But it must
>>| be so, otherwise someone would have given me a definitive answer by
>>| now.
>>|
>> I don't think most people have any idea how to start to
>> understand. The rental model makes it worse. Lots of people
>> feel they just have to have Office 365 or Adobe CS, for work
>> or school. There isn't much choice. You just give them your
>> credit card. And it's worse if you don't understand how it works.
>> If you don't download copies of all your files in standard formats
>> then you might lose them all if you end the subscription, for
>> example.
>>
>> My very elderly father got mad a few years ago when he
>> bought a new computer and understood that it came with
>> MS Office and Norton System Works. After all, their logo
>> stickers were right there on the front of the computer. But
>> after 3 months they wanted him to pay. It was only a 3
>> month trials to get him hooked. I imagine lots of people fall
>> for that. They don't even understand what version of Windows
>> they're using, so it doesn't occur to them that a computer
>> with pre-installed MS Office might just be a scam ad.
>>
>> Just as lots of people fall for Comcast or Verizon
>> advertising $99.99 in big type, with loads of small print that
>> I can't even read with my glasses on. When you do manage
>> to read it, it turns out that there's actually no way to determine
>> the actual cost of the "special deal", which will expire after
>> a year, anyway. But people want their Internet and cable TV.
>> And regulators have gone missing. I found the same with
>> cellphone plans. Not one provider was willing to tell me what the
>> actual bill would say after adding in all the trumped up taxes,
>> fees, and non-included services.
>
>+1
>
>I have Comcast at three locations. I've let the original contracted for
>plan expire so that I'm not on conract. They keep wanting to sell me
>more, on a new contract, than what I need, for less than I'm paying for
>now, but when I question them about the fine print, they have no idea
>what the 'real' new cost will be. I'd rather deal with the devil I know.
>
>Same thing with my ATT mobile; there's four phones, all off contract.
>
>My daughter just left ATT (no reception at her new location) for Verizon.
>She took advantage of an offer to trade in her ATT iPhone (all paid for)
>for a $300 credit on a new Verizon phone and unlimited data, without a
>contract. I'll believe that when I see it. She was told by one agent
>that this was the last day the offer was being made, so she signed up.
>She later found out the offer was still ongoing. When she got her new
>phone home, she found out they had not set it up correctly. She could
>only make calls using wifi. Wonder what the plan and phone will really
>cost.
>
>Very sleazy and deceptive. Yes, regulators are missing.
>
>>
>>
>>| I did find one freebie that is simple as hell, and seemingly works
>>| without trying to take control of your whole machine with their
>>| invasive nonsense. The simple freebie I found it AVZ by Kaspersky.
>>| All it does is the simple stuff AVs used to do years ago.
>>|
>>
>> I've also used free, portable versions before, for one-time checks.
>>
>>| I'm going to try to do the
>> impossible and get an answer on this from a couple of the companies
>>|
>>
>> I'd be interested to hear the results of you investigation... and
>> whether you have to give them a credit card before they'll answer...
>> "You can cancel at any time." :)

The post you responded to was from 7/13. Here was what I finally did
to answer my own question as to what AV programs meant by the
subscription expiring.
==================
I tried something. I went to the Kaspersky site and selected one of
their AVs. You can download the Kaspersky EULAS from the link below.

https://products.s.kaspersky-labs.com/homeuser/kav2021/21.3.10.391/english-US-20210227_073813/3434363632347c44454c7c4e554c4c/eula_gdpr_en-us.txt

The EULA is a ton of lawyerese. Below is the closest I can find about
software expiration.

3.11. After expiration of the Software license, You may be entitled to
continue use of the Software for a defined period of time, while the
functionality of the Software may be limited. Details are available at
https://help.kaspersky.com.

As far as I'm concerned, these AV guys today are little more than
crooks. It seems the program itself is history after expiration. You
cannot keep using it with a previously downloaded virus database -
which you PAID for.

I'll stay with my freebie sandbox. Even a paid-for sandbox is a
better deal by far than squandering bucks every year on this modern AV
crap - which itself is a hundred times more vulnerable than s freebie
sandbox. People get infected every day with those junk AVs. Plus most
of them are invasive as hell. They want to interfere with perfectly
good programs.

The search for an answer to my question is done as far as I'm
concerned.