I need an answer, and I need a GNU?Linux expert to give the
answer.

I am interested in trying out Wayland.

On Gentoo it is very simple. Just emerge Wayland and associated
programs (Xwayland, etc.) and then add "wayland" to the global
USE flags which will re-build all software that has wayland
capability (e.g. GTK+, Qt).

But then what? How do I start Wayland?

Currently I boot into the Linux console and then start X Window
using the "startx" command. This, along with info in .xinitrc
and .Xresources will bring up X.

How do I do the same for Wayland?

The web site just says to start the wayland compositor and that
will bring up Wayland:

https://www.fosskers.ca/en/blog/wayland

"Now exit whatever desktop environment/window manager you're in,
and drop down to your basic login terminal. From here, run sway
and Sway should start. Congratulations, you're running Wayland!"

"Sway" is the compositor which he uses but will any compositor
do the same?

Give me the answer, please.

And I don't want some ignoramus distro-lackey to blubbler: "Duh,
just use the display manager... duh... duh."

I ain't got no fucking display manager.

A display manager just executes basic commands for the retarded
distro-lackey. What are those basic commands?

GNU/Linux experts please come forth with the answer.

On 2/10/2024 11:11 AM, Lameass Larry Pietraskiewicz wrote:

> How do I start Wayland?

wtf?

www.google.com/search?q=how+do+i+start+wayland

Le 10-02-2024, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
>
> I am interested in trying out Wayland.

Good idea.

> How do I start Wayland?

You don't start Wayland. You start your Window manager. For example, if
you want a good Window Manager, keyboard driven as you hate the mouse,
like SwayVM, you just install it and then instead of launching "exec
startx", you launch "exec sway". The issue with sway is the
documentation, it's bad: they consider you just have to look at the i3wm
documentation which is bad.

> Currently I boot into the Linux console and then start X Window
> using the "startx" command. This, along with info in .xinitrc
> and .Xresources will bring up X.
>
> How do I do the same for Wayland?

You don't do the same. Wayland is a protocol, not a server.

> The web site just says to start the wayland compositor and that
> will bring up Wayland:

Yes, they know what they say.

> "Sway" is the compositor which he uses but will any compositor
> do the same?

I don't really understand your question. Wayland is a protocol, it needs
to be implemented by the compositors to be able to run the applications
in the same way.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

On 10 Feb 2024 20:56:18 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

>>
>> I am interested in trying out Wayland.
>
> Good idea.
>

No, it's not a good idea. Wayland is crap. It has no screen
capture and other things that X provides. Also, the FVWM3
window manager, the best IMO, depends on X and cannot be ported
to Wayland.

I just want to explore Wayland because the self-proclaimed Linux
"gods" at RedHat/Freedesktop may decide to terminate all X support.

Sadly, GNU/Linux is changing from diverse to monolithic thanks
to those RedHat/Freedesktop bastards.

>>
>> How do I start Wayland?
>
> You don't start Wayland. You start your Window manager.ver.
>
>> The web site just says to start the wayland compositor and that
>> will bring up Wayland:
>
> Yes, they know what they say.
>
>> "Sway" is the compositor which he uses but will any compositor
>> do the same?
>
> I don't really understand your question. Wayland is a protocol, it needs
> to be implemented by the compositors to be able to run the applications
> in the same way.
>

The question is simple. The web site says to start Sway and Sway
will bring up Wayland.

I want to use "hikari:"

https://hikari.acmelabs.space/

Will starting hikari also bring up Wayland? From the above discussion,
I suppose that it will.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 21:24:31 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

> Wayland is crap. It has no screen capture and other things that X
> provides.

How do you know, if you haven’t actually tried it yet?

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 21:32:14 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

>
>> Wayland is crap. It has no screen capture and other things that X
>> provides.
>
> How do you know, if you haven’t actually tried it yet?
>

Because oodles of people and web sites have said this exact same
thing. Wayland is junk.

Wayland exists because RedHat has sponsored it beginning in 2008!

Yes! 2008! And it still has a long fucking way to go to compete
with the highly perfected X Window.

Whatever RedHat dictates the sheepish distros will adopt, and their
even more sheepish users will accept without question.

GNU/Linux, in the majority, is no different than Microshaft Winblows.
An ignorant and docile user base is controlled by a grubbing commercial
enterprise.

I am slowly considering moving entirely to FreeBSD.

Le 10-02-2024, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
> On 10 Feb 2024 20:56:18 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I am interested in trying out Wayland.
>>
>> Good idea.
>>
>
> No, it's not a good idea. Wayland is crap. It has no screen
> capture

Did you read the link you provided? It works, I had already used grim
for my screenshots. You can combine it with slurp if you need only to
capture a part of your screen. And with swappy if you want to annotate it
on the fly.

> I just want to explore Wayland because the self-proclaimed Linux
> "gods" at RedHat/Freedesktop may decide to terminate all X support.

It's not related with RedHat or Freedesktop, it's related with itself.
It's an almost abandonware because nobody want to take care of it. You
can do it if you want, you'll be welcome.

> Sadly, GNU/Linux is changing from diverse to monolithic thanks
> to those RedHat/Freedesktop bastards.

You are blinded by your hate. The choice is not in their hands. And the
diversity will remain exactly the same. You had one X server, you'll
have one Wayland protocol. You'll replace one by another one, it won't
change anything about the diversity.

> Will starting hikari also bring up Wayland? From the above discussion,

Yes.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

On 10 Feb 2024 22:45:52 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

>
> It's not related with RedHat or Freedesktop, it's related with itself.
> It's an almost abandonware because nobody want to take care of it.
>

What about the thousands of programs that depend on X Window in some
way? Will this fantastic legacy just be abandoned due to the whim
of these "modernist" assholes?

XWayland won't suffice. X Window is not going away anytime soon.
In fact, my weekly Gentoo update has experienced some updates to
X components.

X will be maintained. The problem is the RedHat/Freedesktop bastards
will no longer support X within their GTK+ toolkits.

Thus, RedHat/Freedesktop *is* the problem.

GNU/Linux users should get up off their fat, docile asses and demand
that RedHat/Freedesktop go and fuck itself.

But those ignorant, docile bastards will not and therein lies the
problem.

Le 10-02-2024, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
> On 10 Feb 2024 22:45:52 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> It's not related with RedHat or Freedesktop, it's related with itself.
>> It's an almost abandonware because nobody want to take care of it.
>
> What about the thousands of programs that depend on X Window in some
> way?

Mostly, they can run with xwayland. Some, like a screenshot can't by
design so they had to write new stuff for it. But mostly they won't
notice the difference.

> Will this fantastic legacy just be abandoned due to the whim
> of these "modernist" assholes?

You claim to be the god of the programmers, if you really care about X,
so just take care of it and stop crying. Who are you to tell people
what they must do?

> XWayland won't suffice.

For the biggest part of the applications, it will.

> X Window is not going away anytime soon.

So, why are you crying?

> In fact, my weekly Gentoo update has experienced some updates to
> X components.

Yes, there was a very impressive security issue which has been
corrected. Doesn't mean there is a full support. I didn't said it was
unmaintained, I said it was almost an abandonware, which mean it's only
maintained for the most critical issues.

> X will be maintained.

Not really, and for how long and by who?

> The problem is the RedHat/Freedesktop bastards

No, the problem is you: you care about it but you don't do anything to
help.

> Thus, RedHat/Freedesktop *is* the problem.

No, you are the problem.

> GNU/Linux users should get up off their fat, docile asses and demand
> that RedHat/Freedesktop go and fuck itself.

And so what? If you remove some people who don't want to take care of
it, it will change nothing. YOU should get up off your fat docile ass
and maintain X.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 22:39:09 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 21:32:14 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>>> Wayland is crap. It has no screen capture and other things that X
>>> provides.
>>
>> How do you know, if you haven’t actually tried it yet?
>>
> Because oodles of people and web sites have said this exact same thing.

So you are not really adding any information to the discussion, are you?

Somebody who actually tried it, and reported back on their findings, on
the other hand, would be adding actual information to the discussion.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 21:24:31 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

> I just want to explore Wayland because the self-proclaimed Linux "gods"
> at RedHat/Freedesktop may decide to terminate all X support.

They do seem to be doing that. QGIS on Fedora KDE warns that it found
Wayland and some things might not work well. It's as happy as a pig on
Ubuntu.

Supposedly there was a button on the login screen that allowed selecting
an X11 session but that's gone.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2024 23:01:50 +0000, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote in
<17b2a2b5de0d69e9$85710$395177$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com>:

> On 10 Feb 2024 22:45:52 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>
>> It's not related with RedHat or Freedesktop, it's related with itself.
>> It's an almost abandonware because nobody want to take care of it.
>>
>>
> What about the thousands of programs that depend on X Window in some
> way? Will this fantastic legacy just be abandoned due to the whim of
> these "modernist" assholes?
>
> XWayland won't suffice. X Window is not going away anytime soon.
> In fact, my weekly Gentoo update has experienced some updates to X
> components.
>
> X will be maintained. The problem is the RedHat/Freedesktop bastards
> will no longer support X within their GTK+ toolkits.
>
> Thus, RedHat/Freedesktop *is* the problem.
>
> GNU/Linux users should get up off their fat, docile asses and demand
> that RedHat/Freedesktop go and fuck itself.
>
> But those ignorant, docile bastards will not and therein lies the
> problem.

I don't think you understand enough about Wayland. Now, I just
learned about it myself, so I'm going to relate it in the way that
I understand it, then you can tell me if I might be on to something:

The actual Wayland(-capable) driver is a hardware abstraction layer
between the client program and the specific hardware driver.

"XWayland" is nothing more than XOrg using Wayland as its graphics
driver.

What graphical code do you want to run in X? Wayland gives
software the option to talk more directly to the hardware, so
your favorite software might be snappier using Wayland.

(I don't use it, as I use ssh -X a lot.)

--
-v

On 10 Feb 2024 22:45:52 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

>
>> Will starting hikari also bring up Wayland?
>
> Yes.
>

OK. But what about configuration?

X Window uses the xorg.conf file to know about the keyboard, pointing
device, monitor, fonts, etc.

What does Wayland use? Is it all automatically determined?
Is it the compositor (hikari) config file that is used?

Le 11-02-2024, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
> On 10 Feb 2024 22:45:52 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>>
>>> Will starting hikari also bring up Wayland?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>
> OK. But what about configuration?
>
> X Window uses the xorg.conf file to know about the keyboard, pointing
> device, monitor, fonts, etc.
>
> What does Wayland use? Is it all automatically determined?
> Is it the compositor (hikari) config file that is used?

You configure hikari, not wayland. You can configure your system, hikari
should be able to rely on it. But there is no need to have a system
configuration plus a server configuration plus a WM configuration.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io