On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 14:10:24 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> X-Slrn: Why use anything else?

Life is too short? I started to read the setup instructions but my eyes
glazed over when it started talking about a FQDN in /etc/hosts and setting
NNTPSERVER in .bashrc followed by editing .slrnrc.

On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 01:58:58 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> Fedora wanted to update again last night. If I remember right, 69
> packages and over 90 files, including a new kernel. I guess if I
> continue using Fedora I'll have to get used to that. This is something
> those who need "cutting edge" are accustomed to accepting. For me, it's
> not that much of a draw.

Yeah, I just got 52. Mostly google fonts, a few pipewire, and 5 kernel
packages. It's starting to make Rocky look good. That's downstream of
RHEL. I'll see how it goes.
> Apparently I missed what computer your were using for Fedora. Is it an
> i5 dual core, or older? My Latitude E7440 uses an i5 dual core (4
> thread) CPU (i5-4310U), but it doesn't seem too slow. I think the
> UltraBooks are designed to be lower power for longer battery life.

Pentium G3240. Same generation, 4, Haswell. It's a socket 1150 so there
are a lot of potential upgrades. A i5 4590S is all of $17 on fleabay, free
shipping. That would be about twice as fast.

On 2024-02-03, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 14:10:24 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> X-Slrn: Why use anything else?
>
> Life is too short? I started to read the setup instructions but my eyes
> glazed over when it started talking about a FQDN in /etc/hosts and setting
> NNTPSERVER in .bashrc followed by editing .slrnrc.

It's really not that hard. Here's my full .slrnrc file.

set hostname "gmail.com"
set username "ronb02NOSPAM"
set realname "RonB"
nnrpaccess news.eternal-september.org ronb redacted (your password)
set editor_command "jstar +%d '%s'"
set signature ".sig.txt"
set scorefile ".slrnscore"

And I added this line to my .bashrc file.

NNTPSERVER='news.eternal-september.org' && export NNTPSERVER

When you first run slrn it will prompt you to run a command that creates a
list of newsgroups on your server. I also think you have to make an empty
..slrnscore file (so slrn can save your killfile information). That's about
it. These files are stored in your home directory.

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

On 2024-02-03, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 01:58:58 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> Fedora wanted to update again last night. If I remember right, 69
>> packages and over 90 files, including a new kernel. I guess if I
>> continue using Fedora I'll have to get used to that. This is something
>> those who need "cutting edge" are accustomed to accepting. For me, it's
>> not that much of a draw.
>
> Yeah, I just got 52. Mostly google fonts, a few pipewire, and 5 kernel
> packages. It's starting to make Rocky look good. That's downstream of
> RHEL. I'll see how it goes.

I guess I should try Rocky some time since I started out with CentOS. If I
remember right, Rocky was started by the guy who starting putting the
original CentOS.

>> Apparently I missed what computer your were using for Fedora. Is it an
>> i5 dual core, or older? My Latitude E7440 uses an i5 dual core (4
>> thread) CPU (i5-4310U), but it doesn't seem too slow. I think the
>> UltraBooks are designed to be lower power for longer battery life.
>
> Pentium G3240. Same generation, 4, Haswell. It's a socket 1150 so there
> are a lot of potential upgrades. A i5 4590S is all of $17 on fleabay, free
> shipping. That would be about twice as fast.

That Pentium G3240 benches faster than the i5-4310U in my Latitude E7440 for
most tests. So, depending on what you're using it for, that doesn't sound
too bad. The CPU in this little Optiplex 3020m micro uses an i5-4590U, which
I'm guessing is the low power version of the i5-4590S, therefore slower.

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 14:10:24 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> X-Slrn: Why use anything else?
>
> Life is too short? I started to read the setup instructions but my eyes
> glazed over when it started talking about a FQDN in /etc/hosts and setting
> NNTPSERVER in .bashrc followed by editing .slrnrc.

It was fun setting up the basic access, a slrn-colors file, and a slrn-vi-keys
file.

. . .
set mail_editor_command "mutt -H '%s'"
set post_editor_command "fortune > ~/.config/personal/slrn/signature.rc ;
vim -f +%d '%s'"
. . .
include .config/personal/slrn/slrncolors.rc
include .config/personal/slrn/slrnkeys-vi.rc

Haven't really touched the configuration in years. Well worth the effort.

--
Q: What is the difference between Texas and yogurt?
A: Yogurt has culture.

On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 08:46:04 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> I guess I should try Rocky some time since I started out with CentOS. If
> I remember right, Rocky was started by the guy who starting putting the
> original CentOS.

https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-and-centos-stream/

That was written before Greg Kurtzer started Rocky.

https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642

It's confusing. Fedora is equivalent to the Windows 11 machine that's on
the Insider channel. It's the bleeding edge proving ground that can be
unstable. Stiff that works will eventually make it into the standard win
11 update that happens once or twice a year rather than about once a week.

RHEL is the stable analog to mainstream Windows 11 Pro. Centos was the
freely available rebuild of RHEL so it may have lagged RHEL but it was
stable. Centos Stream is now between Fedora and RHEL so it isn't as liable
to instability as Fedora but not as well proven as RHEL. Rocky is the new
Centos, built from RHEL's codebase.

I knew what I was getting into which is why it's on my test bed machine.
At work I use the stable Debian because I don't need surprises. If you
want to live dangerously you can run the test or unstable branch.

For all the distros downstream of Debian you need to do your own research.

The SUSE world is similar with Leap, Tumbleweed, and Enterprise.

with Linux you get to name your poison. If DuFuS joined the Insiders
program he might have a different view of Windows. Warning: afaik it's a
one way street. Going back to the stable release is a new install.

>
>>> Apparently I missed what computer your were using for Fedora. Is it an
>>> i5 dual core, or older? My Latitude E7440 uses an i5 dual core (4
>>> thread) CPU (i5-4310U), but it doesn't seem too slow. I think the
>>> UltraBooks are designed to be lower power for longer battery life.
>>
>> Pentium G3240. Same generation, 4, Haswell. It's a socket 1150 so
>> there are a lot of potential upgrades. A i5 4590S is all of $17 on
>> fleabay, free shipping. That would be about twice as fast.
>
> That Pentium G3240 benches faster than the i5-4310U in my Latitude E7440
> for most tests. So, depending on what you're using it for, that doesn't
> sound too bad. The CPU in this little Optiplex 3020m micro uses an
> i5-4590U, which I'm guessing is the low power version of the i5-4590S,
> therefore slower.
>

On 2024-02-03, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 08:46:04 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>
>> I guess I should try Rocky some time since I started out with CentOS. If
>> I remember right, Rocky was started by the guy who starting putting the
>> original CentOS.
>
> https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-and-centos-stream/
>
> That was written before Greg Kurtzer started Rocky.
>
> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642
>
> It's confusing. Fedora is equivalent to the Windows 11 machine that's on
> the Insider channel. It's the bleeding edge proving ground that can be
> unstable. Stiff that works will eventually make it into the standard win
> 11 update that happens once or twice a year rather than about once a week.
>
> RHEL is the stable analog to mainstream Windows 11 Pro. Centos was the
> freely available rebuild of RHEL so it may have lagged RHEL but it was
> stable. Centos Stream is now between Fedora and RHEL so it isn't as liable
> to instability as Fedora but not as well proven as RHEL. Rocky is the new
> Centos, built from RHEL's codebase.
>
> I knew what I was getting into which is why it's on my test bed machine.
> At work I use the stable Debian because I don't need surprises. If you
> want to live dangerously you can run the test or unstable branch.
>
> For all the distros downstream of Debian you need to do your own research.
>
> The SUSE world is similar with Leap, Tumbleweed, and Enterprise.
>
> with Linux you get to name your poison. If DuFuS joined the Insiders
> program he might have a different view of Windows. Warning: afaik it's a
> one way street. Going back to the stable release is a new install.

I understand Fedora's place in Red Hat's world, and what CentOS once was,
compared to what it is now. For my use I like stability, but I don't think
I'll go with Rocky or CentOS (or Fedora, after this experiment). I'm pretty
happy with Debian based distributions — even though I like to occasionally
look into what others' provide. I am going to keep Fedora on the laptop for
now. I'm curious to see how many times it will update (and how big those
updates will be) from week to week. The main reason I tried Fedora in the
first place was to see if Trelby was actually in their repository (it is). I
also found that, if Debian, Ubuntu and Linux Mint all went away tomorrow,
Fedora could take their place if it needed to.

>>>> Apparently I missed what computer your were using for Fedora. Is it an
>>>> i5 dual core, or older? My Latitude E7440 uses an i5 dual core (4
>>>> thread) CPU (i5-4310U), but it doesn't seem too slow. I think the
>>>> UltraBooks are designed to be lower power for longer battery life.
>>>
>>> Pentium G3240. Same generation, 4, Haswell. It's a socket 1150 so
>>> there are a lot of potential upgrades. A i5 4590S is all of $17 on
>>> fleabay, free shipping. That would be about twice as fast.
>>
>> That Pentium G3240 benches faster than the i5-4310U in my Latitude E7440
>> for most tests. So, depending on what you're using it for, that doesn't
>> sound too bad. The CPU in this little Optiplex 3020m micro uses an
>> i5-4590U, which I'm guessing is the low power version of the i5-4590S,
>> therefore slower.
>>
>

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

On 2024-02-04 00:46, RonB wrote:
> On 2024-02-03, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 08:46:04 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I guess I should try Rocky some time since I started out with CentOS. If
>>> I remember right, Rocky was started by the guy who starting putting the
>>> original CentOS.
>>
>> https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-and-centos-stream/
>>
>> That was written before Greg Kurtzer started Rocky.
>>
>> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642
>>
>> It's confusing. Fedora is equivalent to the Windows 11 machine that's on
>> the Insider channel. It's the bleeding edge proving ground that can be
>> unstable. Stiff that works will eventually make it into the standard win
>> 11 update that happens once or twice a year rather than about once a week.
>>
>> RHEL is the stable analog to mainstream Windows 11 Pro. Centos was the
>> freely available rebuild of RHEL so it may have lagged RHEL but it was
>> stable. Centos Stream is now between Fedora and RHEL so it isn't as liable
>> to instability as Fedora but not as well proven as RHEL. Rocky is the new
>> Centos, built from RHEL's codebase.
>>
>> I knew what I was getting into which is why it's on my test bed machine.
>> At work I use the stable Debian because I don't need surprises. If you
>> want to live dangerously you can run the test or unstable branch.
>>
>> For all the distros downstream of Debian you need to do your own research.
>>
>> The SUSE world is similar with Leap, Tumbleweed, and Enterprise.
>>
>> with Linux you get to name your poison. If DuFuS joined the Insiders
>> program he might have a different view of Windows. Warning: afaik it's a
>> one way street. Going back to the stable release is a new install.
>
> I understand Fedora's place in Red Hat's world, and what CentOS once was,
> compared to what it is now. For my use I like stability, but I don't think
> I'll go with Rocky or CentOS (or Fedora, after this experiment). I'm pretty
> happy with Debian based distributions — even though I like to occasionally
> look into what others' provide. I am going to keep Fedora on the laptop for
> now. I'm curious to see how many times it will update (and how big those
> updates will be) from week to week. The main reason I tried Fedora in the
> first place was to see if Trelby was actually in their repository (it is). I
> also found that, if Debian, Ubuntu and Linux Mint all went away tomorrow,
> Fedora could take their place if it needed to.

Mint won't go away at all. The developer makes a good $15,000 a month
through donations and probably a good chunk more from patrons. Even if
Clément Lefebvre himself decided to hang it up, someone else would jump
in to take over. It's not Microsoft or Google money, but it's still a
nice amount.

--
RabidPedagog
Catholic paleoconservative
Linux Mint patron

On 2024-02-04, RabidPedagog <rabid@pedag.og> wrote:
> On 2024-02-04 00:46, RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-02-03, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 08:46:04 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I guess I should try Rocky some time since I started out with CentOS. If
>>>> I remember right, Rocky was started by the guy who starting putting the
>>>> original CentOS.
>>>
>>> https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-and-centos-stream/
>>>
>>> That was written before Greg Kurtzer started Rocky.
>>>
>>> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642
>>>
>>> It's confusing. Fedora is equivalent to the Windows 11 machine that's on
>>> the Insider channel. It's the bleeding edge proving ground that can be
>>> unstable. Stiff that works will eventually make it into the standard win
>>> 11 update that happens once or twice a year rather than about once a week.
>>>
>>> RHEL is the stable analog to mainstream Windows 11 Pro. Centos was the
>>> freely available rebuild of RHEL so it may have lagged RHEL but it was
>>> stable. Centos Stream is now between Fedora and RHEL so it isn't as liable
>>> to instability as Fedora but not as well proven as RHEL. Rocky is the new
>>> Centos, built from RHEL's codebase.
>>>
>>> I knew what I was getting into which is why it's on my test bed machine.
>>> At work I use the stable Debian because I don't need surprises. If you
>>> want to live dangerously you can run the test or unstable branch.
>>>
>>> For all the distros downstream of Debian you need to do your own research.
>>>
>>> The SUSE world is similar with Leap, Tumbleweed, and Enterprise.
>>>
>>> with Linux you get to name your poison. If DuFuS joined the Insiders
>>> program he might have a different view of Windows. Warning: afaik it's a
>>> one way street. Going back to the stable release is a new install.
>>
>> I understand Fedora's place in Red Hat's world, and what CentOS once was,
>> compared to what it is now. For my use I like stability, but I don't think
>> I'll go with Rocky or CentOS (or Fedora, after this experiment). I'm pretty
>> happy with Debian based distributions — even though I like to occasionally
>> look into what others' provide. I am going to keep Fedora on the laptop for
>> now. I'm curious to see how many times it will update (and how big those
>> updates will be) from week to week. The main reason I tried Fedora in the
>> first place was to see if Trelby was actually in their repository (it is). I
>> also found that, if Debian, Ubuntu and Linux Mint all went away tomorrow,
>> Fedora could take their place if it needed to.
>
> Mint won't go away at all. The developer makes a good $15,000 a month
> through donations and probably a good chunk more from patrons. Even if
> Clément Lefebvre himself decided to hang it up, someone else would jump
> in to take over. It's not Microsoft or Google money, but it's still a
> nice amount.

I think that money goes to more than just Clem. I think those on the Linux
Mint team also benefit from it. Either way, it seems like people appreciate
and support Linux Mint.

The comment "if it goes away" is hypothetical, but true. I would find a way
to use just about any Linux distribution, though I like Linux Mint.

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

On 2024-02-04 09:09, RonB wrote:
> On 2024-02-04, RabidPedagog <rabid@pedag.og> wrote:
>> On 2024-02-04 00:46, RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-02-03, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 08:46:04 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I guess I should try Rocky some time since I started out with CentOS. If
>>>>> I remember right, Rocky was started by the guy who starting putting the
>>>>> original CentOS.
>>>>
>>>> https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-and-centos-stream/
>>>>
>>>> That was written before Greg Kurtzer started Rocky.
>>>>
>>>> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642
>>>>
>>>> It's confusing. Fedora is equivalent to the Windows 11 machine that's on
>>>> the Insider channel. It's the bleeding edge proving ground that can be
>>>> unstable. Stiff that works will eventually make it into the standard win
>>>> 11 update that happens once or twice a year rather than about once a week.
>>>>
>>>> RHEL is the stable analog to mainstream Windows 11 Pro. Centos was the
>>>> freely available rebuild of RHEL so it may have lagged RHEL but it was
>>>> stable. Centos Stream is now between Fedora and RHEL so it isn't as liable
>>>> to instability as Fedora but not as well proven as RHEL. Rocky is the new
>>>> Centos, built from RHEL's codebase.
>>>>
>>>> I knew what I was getting into which is why it's on my test bed machine.
>>>> At work I use the stable Debian because I don't need surprises. If you
>>>> want to live dangerously you can run the test or unstable branch.
>>>>
>>>> For all the distros downstream of Debian you need to do your own research.
>>>>
>>>> The SUSE world is similar with Leap, Tumbleweed, and Enterprise.
>>>>
>>>> with Linux you get to name your poison. If DuFuS joined the Insiders
>>>> program he might have a different view of Windows. Warning: afaik it's a
>>>> one way street. Going back to the stable release is a new install.
>>>
>>> I understand Fedora's place in Red Hat's world, and what CentOS once was,
>>> compared to what it is now. For my use I like stability, but I don't think
>>> I'll go with Rocky or CentOS (or Fedora, after this experiment). I'm pretty
>>> happy with Debian based distributions — even though I like to occasionally
>>> look into what others' provide. I am going to keep Fedora on the laptop for
>>> now. I'm curious to see how many times it will update (and how big those
>>> updates will be) from week to week. The main reason I tried Fedora in the
>>> first place was to see if Trelby was actually in their repository (it is). I
>>> also found that, if Debian, Ubuntu and Linux Mint all went away tomorrow,
>>> Fedora could take their place if it needed to.
>>
>> Mint won't go away at all. The developer makes a good $15,000 a month
>> through donations and probably a good chunk more from patrons. Even if
>> Clément Lefebvre himself decided to hang it up, someone else would jump
>> in to take over. It's not Microsoft or Google money, but it's still a
>> nice amount.
>
> I think that money goes to more than just Clem. I think those on the Linux
> Mint team also benefit from it. Either way, it seems like people appreciate
> and support Linux Mint.
>
> The comment "if it goes away" is hypothetical, but true. I would find a way
> to use just about any Linux distribution, though I like Linux Mint.

Linux Mint makes the majority of what Linux is comprehensible. For that
reason alone, it deserves to be supported. I give the $15,000 number
simply because it is what the site itself provides as an estimate of
donations, but I would not be surprised to find out that the number of
patrons giving $7,50 like me is in the thousands, providing a much
larger compensation.

--
RabidPedagog
Catholic paleoconservative
Linux Mint patron

On 2024-02-04, RabidPedagog <rabid@pedag.og> wrote:
> On 2024-02-04 09:09, RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-02-04, RabidPedagog <rabid@pedag.og> wrote:
>>> On 2024-02-04 00:46, RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-02-03, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 08:46:04 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess I should try Rocky some time since I started out with CentOS. If
>>>>>> I remember right, Rocky was started by the guy who starting putting the
>>>>>> original CentOS.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-and-centos-stream/
>>>>>
>>>>> That was written before Greg Kurtzer started Rocky.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/#comment-183642
>>>>>
>>>>> It's confusing. Fedora is equivalent to the Windows 11 machine that's on
>>>>> the Insider channel. It's the bleeding edge proving ground that can be
>>>>> unstable. Stiff that works will eventually make it into the standard win
>>>>> 11 update that happens once or twice a year rather than about once a week.
>>>>>
>>>>> RHEL is the stable analog to mainstream Windows 11 Pro. Centos was the
>>>>> freely available rebuild of RHEL so it may have lagged RHEL but it was
>>>>> stable. Centos Stream is now between Fedora and RHEL so it isn't as liable
>>>>> to instability as Fedora but not as well proven as RHEL. Rocky is the new
>>>>> Centos, built from RHEL's codebase.
>>>>>
>>>>> I knew what I was getting into which is why it's on my test bed machine.
>>>>> At work I use the stable Debian because I don't need surprises. If you
>>>>> want to live dangerously you can run the test or unstable branch.
>>>>>
>>>>> For all the distros downstream of Debian you need to do your own research.
>>>>>
>>>>> The SUSE world is similar with Leap, Tumbleweed, and Enterprise.
>>>>>
>>>>> with Linux you get to name your poison. If DuFuS joined the Insiders
>>>>> program he might have a different view of Windows. Warning: afaik it's a
>>>>> one way street. Going back to the stable release is a new install.
>>>>
>>>> I understand Fedora's place in Red Hat's world, and what CentOS once was,
>>>> compared to what it is now. For my use I like stability, but I don't think
>>>> I'll go with Rocky or CentOS (or Fedora, after this experiment). I'm pretty
>>>> happy with Debian based distributions — even though I like to occasionally
>>>> look into what others' provide. I am going to keep Fedora on the laptop for
>>>> now. I'm curious to see how many times it will update (and how big those
>>>> updates will be) from week to week. The main reason I tried Fedora in the
>>>> first place was to see if Trelby was actually in their repository (it is). I
>>>> also found that, if Debian, Ubuntu and Linux Mint all went away tomorrow,
>>>> Fedora could take their place if it needed to.
>>>
>>> Mint won't go away at all. The developer makes a good $15,000 a month
>>> through donations and probably a good chunk more from patrons. Even if
>>> Clément Lefebvre himself decided to hang it up, someone else would jump
>>> in to take over. It's not Microsoft or Google money, but it's still a
>>> nice amount.
>>
>> I think that money goes to more than just Clem. I think those on the Linux
>> Mint team also benefit from it. Either way, it seems like people appreciate
>> and support Linux Mint.
>>
>> The comment "if it goes away" is hypothetical, but true. I would find a way
>> to use just about any Linux distribution, though I like Linux Mint.
>
> Linux Mint makes the majority of what Linux is comprehensible. For that
> reason alone, it deserves to be supported. I give the $15,000 number
> simply because it is what the site itself provides as an estimate of
> donations, but I would not be surprised to find out that the number of
> patrons giving $7,50 like me is in the thousands, providing a much
> larger compensation.

I've donated to Linux Mint in the past and probably will do so in the
future. I appreciate their work.

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput