Am Mon, 08 Nov 2021 11:06:51 +0000 schrieb Kevin Wells:

> In message <smaru5$130f$1@gioia.aioe.org>
> Steve Drain <steve@kappa.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 07/11/2021 20:12, Matthew Phillips wrote:
>>
>>> Well, you can make C just as hard as BASIC if you make all the calls
>>> using _kernel_swi or similar! For an example of that approach (not
>>> recommended)
>>> see the series by Paul Johnson in Archive many years ago.
>>>
>>> If you use OSLib, or a higher-level library like Desk, DeskLib or
>>> Steve Fryatt's SFLib, then I would agree, C is easier than BASIC.
>>
>>So, it comes down to the quality of the library you use then. Perhaps,
>>if you have a good quality BASIC library then C is not so much easier.
>>;-)
>>
>>For desktop applications with BASIC I would recommend using the Toolbox,
>>and most of those structure problems disappear. I am happy to write my
>>own library, but AppBasic is the obvious suggestion for a general
>>library, and it has excellent tutorials.
>
> Another one to consider is Dr Wimp for the same reasons.

And then there is (better: was) the very great "Gamesuite" by Andy
Southgate to speed up the things a little bit if necessary.

Am Sun, 07 Nov 2021 20:12:05 +0000 schrieb Matthew Phillips:

> In message <sm98a9$72b$1@dont-email.me>
> on 7 Nov 2021 druck wrote:
>
>> On 05/11/2021 09:27, Paul Sprangers wrote:
>> > ... The need of learning C is something that I
>> > postponed to my retirement. Now that I am, I find it even difficult
>> > to remember the common Wimp things in Basic. Erm... any
>> > recommendation for a good start for C in RISC OS?
>>
>> I don't have any specific recommendations, but Wimp programming is a
>> lot easier in C than BASIC.
>
> Well, you can make C just as hard as BASIC if you make all the calls
> using _kernel_swi or similar! For an example of that approach (not
> recommended) see the series by Paul Johnson in Archive many years ago.
>
> If you use OSLib, or a higher-level library like Desk, DeskLib or Steve
> Fryatt's SFLib, then I would agree, C is easier than BASIC.
>
> See https://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/risc-os/wimp-prog for Steve's
> tutorial on Wimp programming in C.

That's a very good course - for the RISCOS side of C. Especially because
it comes with a mass of good and directly usable code snippets.

But for a general introduction in C and the first steps in or into this
world of classic programming there are other courses wich are better for
a general understanding an basic structural knowledge of this dialect.

In newer times (and much more since 2020 with people sitting in front of
their laptop) the eventually best way to get its foots into an new land
of code one could go to Youtube an take a short lesson of C

e.g.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lQEunpmtRA>

C Programming | In One Video

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJgsSFOSQv0>

C Programming Tutorial for Beginners

or

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPjZKsUYSXg>

C Programming Tutorial 1 - Intro to C

and many more

and there are some very interesting "historic" lessons about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de2Hsvxaf8M

"C" Programming Language: Brian Kernighan - Computerphile

After clicking and looking around there (YT) the next best step is to get
a GOOD book to learn the basics. There are many(!) books. And no one knows
wich the BEST may be.

But e.g.

<https://www.lovelybooks.de/autor/Dirk-Louis/C-C-Kompendium-m-CD-
ROM-1327909950-w/>

is a good choice. But, its massive and in the first run the C++ Parts are
of no interest.

The classic introduction, and not the worst today, is the

<https://archive.org/details/TheCProgrammingLanguageFirstEdition/mode/2up>

The C Programming Language

It has all the things one has to know about the C.

There are newer editions and the book is available second hand for very
little.

For the "real programming thing" its absolutely necessary to have an
quick overview of all the quirky stuff C does in its sometimes very
special form of doing things. My favorite for this is

https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/c-pocket-reference/0596004362/

C Pocket Reference
by Peter Prinz, Ulla Kirch-Prinz

If You are a german reader the website

https://www.c-howto.de/tutorial/

is a very short but handy introduction to C.

On 13 Nov, Sebastian Barthel wrote in message
<smoco7$21j$2@solani.org>:

> After clicking and looking around there (YT) the next best step is to get
> a GOOD book to learn the basics. There are many(!) books. And no one knows
> wich the BEST may be.

Here's the one that I learned from (it was the required course text book
back when I was an engineering student sitting in on first year computer
science):

https://www.waterstones.com/book/book-on-c-a/al-kelley/ira-pohl/9780201183993

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Book-C-Programming/dp/0201183994/

It's a while since I've looked at it, but it always seemed to be more
comprehendible than other books on the subject.

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

Am Sun, 07 Nov 2021 20:12:05 +0000 schrieb Matthew Phillips:

> In message <sm98a9$72b$1@dont-email.me>
> on 7 Nov 2021 druck wrote:
>
>> On 05/11/2021 09:27, Paul Sprangers wrote:
>> > ... . Erm... any
>> > recommendation for a good start for C in RISC OS?
>>
>> I don't have any specific recommendations, but Wimp programming is a
>> lot easier in C than BASIC. Wimp calls in BASIC take blocks of memory
>> and you have to know offset and type of each field to use with
>> indirection operators. In C each call takes or returns a C structure
>> which contains named and typed fields, meaning you don't have to
>> remember offsets, and the compiler can check you've used the correct
>> type.
>
> Well, you can make C just as hard as BASIC ...
>
> If you use OSLib, or a higher-level library like Desk, DeskLib or Steve
> Fryatt's SFLib, then I would agree, C is easier than BASIC.
>
> See https://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/risc-os/wimp-prog for Steve's
> tutorial on Wimp programming in C.

There are some very interesting short introductions and "overviews" wich
are good to get some "feeling" about what can be done with this language.

When this "C" arrived at the lands of homecomputing a massive lot of
articles began to praise the idiom, its power and strength. But this
depends. Today a closer look at Python, which is available for RISCOS,
could be a good idea too.

Here is an example of such a "C" advertising

https://archive.org/details/PersonalComputerWorld1983-04/page/128/mode/2up

PCW 1983 April

And here is some simple line of code, that looks like nonsense but is
correct in C (and very close to the machine)

while (n--) {
do something
}

It has/is a form of magic - but only to the initiated apologists ... :)

And its full of its own wonders. No other language can do this to the
people. Probably thats the real reason of its massive utilisation.