/ begin historical context
Moved to rural S.W. Missouri for decades ago.
Purchased laptop from father/son consumer oriented storefront.
By the time the local ISP they had referred me to had folded they had
become a dial-up ISP themselves and thus my email provider.
A few years ago they ended dial-up connectivity. I did not to be
tied to a single physical point for internet. I chose a T-Mobile WiFi
hotspot with the Fifi function disabled {essentially using it as a cell
network modem via its USB connection}.
T-Mobile offers email services to their smartphone, but not hotspot,
customers. I *can't* use smartphones due to vision problems.
/ end historical context

I will not consider so-called "free" services such as gmail.
I explicitly do not want my own domain name.
I want a POP3 service.
I subscribe to several moderate volume text only email lists.
I will not store incoming emails on the server [downloading daily].
I do receive a few HTML formatted emails per month [do not send any].
Privacy/security is not a major issue as:
a. all the list archives are public.
b. I do not transact business by email.

My OS is Debian Linux.
I will continue to use SeaMonkey as my email client.

A previous thread thread suggested sdf.org. Setting it up to post via
SeaMonkey has not been successful. Effectively I have to post via mutt.

I want the level of service implicit in a commercial provider.
Are there services with a focus on individuals rather than small
businesses?

How can I find them?
TIA

Richard Owlett wrote:

> I want the level of service implicit in a commercial provider.
> Are there services with a focus on individuals rather than small
> businesses?

As I'm in the UK, I know very little of the USA providers, you need
someone who provides a mailbox, rather than just forwarding to a mailbox
elsewhere, these are one provider I've heard of over the course of many
years ...

<https://www.pobox.com/signup?service_type=mailstore>

[snip]

first: a quick note. I thought I had posted this earlier
but I don't see it now. Apologies if this is a dupe.

Anyway, with the disclaimer/disclosure I used to worh
there, I'd suggest looking at panix.com. They're a
small, privately owned, ISP based in NYC, and have
been around for decades.

Their mail server works with pop3, imap, and direct text
based prorams on their unix system such as MM, pine, elm,
and probably some others.

Also a web interface.

Lots of other cool stuff there, aside from e-mail, too.

price is $10/month, or $100 prepay for the year

www.panix.com

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On 8/6/2023 5:56 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> / begin historical context
> Moved to rural S.W. Missouri for decades ago.
> Purchased laptop from father/son consumer oriented storefront.
> By the time the local ISP they had referred me to had folded they had
> become a dial-up ISP themselves and thus my email provider.
> A few years ago they ended dial-up connectivity. I did not to be
> tied to a single physical point for internet. I chose a T-Mobile WiFi
> hotspot with the Fifi function disabled {essentially using it as a cell
> network modem via its USB connection}.
> T-Mobile offers email services to their smartphone, but not hotspot,
> customers. I *can't* use smartphones due to vision problems.
> / end historical context
>
> I will not consider so-called "free" services such as gmail.
> I explicitly do not want my own domain name.
> I want a POP3 service.
> I subscribe to several moderate volume text only email lists.
> I will not store incoming emails on the server [downloading daily].
> I do receive a few HTML formatted emails per month [do not send any].
> Privacy/security is not a major issue as:
> a. all the list archives are public.
> b. I do not transact business by email.
>
> My OS is Debian Linux.
> I will continue to use SeaMonkey as my email client.
>
> A previous thread thread suggested sdf.org. Setting it up to post via
> SeaMonkey has not been successful. Effectively I have to post via mutt.
>
> I want the level of service implicit in a commercial provider.
> Are there services with a focus on individuals rather than small
> businesses?
>
> How can I find them?
> TIA
>
>

I use Sunset.net, a unit of Great Basin Internet ($89.95 per calendar
quarter). They host both my E-mail (multiple E-mail addresses without
any additional fee) and my Web site. Since they are a regional ISP that
does not provide broadband service in my area, I connect to the Internet
through Spectrum, a unit of Charter. While Sunset.net's fee has not
changed in years, it seems that Spectrum's monthly fee increases almost
monthly.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

For 30 years, I was a software test engineer, testing the
software used by the U.S. military to operate its space
satellites. I had a very high security clearance. If I
were convicted of what Donald Trump has been accused regarding
his keeping classified documents in his home, I would have
been sentenced to decades in prison. Thus, I indeed support
the concept of equal treatment under the law.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>Richard Owlett wrote:

>>I want the level of service implicit in a commercial provider.
>>Are there services with a focus on individuals rather than small
>>businesses?

>As I'm in the UK, I know very little of the USA providers, you need
>someone who provides a mailbox, rather than just forwarding to a mailbox
>elsewhere, these are one provider I've heard of over the course of many
>years ...

><https://www.pobox.com/signup?service_type=mailstore>

There's also Fastmail, which offers POP.

https://www.fastmail.com/

It's $5 per month or $50 per year.

I know several people who had used pobox.com and were satisfied with it,
then two of them switched to Fastmail and were satisfied with it.

David E. Ross wrote:

> I use Sunset.net, a unit of Great Basin Internet ##

Didn't they have a badly planned migration leaving you without service
for several days, or am I mis-remembering?

Andy Burns wrote:
> David E. Ross wrote:
>
>> I use Sunset.net, a unit of Great Basin Internet ##
>
> Didn't they have a badly planned migration leaving you without service
> for several days, or am I mis-remembering?
>
>

It was his website which effectively went offline for a while.

On 08/06/2023 09:07 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> I want the level of service implicit in a commercial provider.
>> Are there services with a focus on individuals rather than small
>> businesses?
>
> As I'm in the UK, I know very little of the USA providers, you need
> someone who provides a mailbox, rather than just forwarding to a mailbox
> elsewhere, these are one provider I've heard of over the course of many
> years ...
>
> <https://www.pobox.com/signup?service_type=mailstore>
>
>

No thanks, it's a forwarding service. I'm looking for a mailbox provider.

That site was definitely worth visiting for its documentation.

Thank you.

On 08/06/2023 10:05 AM, danny burstein wrote:
> [snip]
>
> first: a quick note. I thought I had posted this earlier
> but I don't see it now. Apologies if this is a dupe.
>
> Anyway, with the disclaimer/disclosure I used to worh
> there, I'd suggest looking at panix.com. They're a
> small, privately owned, ISP based in NYC, and have
> been around for decades.
>
> Their mail server works with pop3, imap, and direct text
> based prorams on their unix system such as MM, pine, elm,
> and probably some others.
>
> Also a web interface.
>
> Lots of other cool stuff there, aside from e-mail, too.
>
> price is $10/month, or $100 prepay for the year
>
> www.panix.com
>

That looks like what I'm looking for.
As to pricing, http://www.panix.com/email/mbox.html states:
> Individual mailboxes, either in your domain or in access.net, are $5/month.

I'll have to re-read the site.
(with benefit of a night's sleep and cup of coffee ;)

Thank you.

Richard Owlett wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> <https://www.pobox.com/signup?service_type=mailstore>
>
> No thanks, it's a forwarding service. I'm looking for a mailbox provider.

They offer forwarding and mailbox storage, I realised you'd need a
mailbox ... the clue is in the terminal part of the URL ;-)

On 7 Aug 2023 at 13:03:18 CEST, "Richard Owlett" <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

> On 08/06/2023 09:07 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>
>>> I want the level of service implicit in a commercial provider.
>>> Are there services with a focus on individuals rather than small
>>> businesses?
>>
>> As I'm in the UK, I know very little of the USA providers, you need
>> someone who provides a mailbox, rather than just forwarding to a mailbox
>> elsewhere, these are one provider I've heard of over the course of many
>> years ...
>>
>> <https://www.pobox.com/signup?service_type=mailstore>
>>
>>
>
> No thanks, it's a forwarding service. I'm looking for a mailbox provider.
>
> That site was definitely worth visiting for its documentation.
>
>

Did you try the one I suggested to you previously? Even if not in the USA

On 08/07/2023 06:34 AM, Gabriele - onenet wrote:
> On 7 Aug 2023 at 13:03:18 CEST, "Richard Owlett" <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>
>> On 08/06/2023 09:07 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>
>>>> I want the level of service implicit in a commercial provider.
>>>> Are there services with a focus on individuals rather than small
>>>> businesses?
>>>
>>> As I'm in the UK, I know very little of the USA providers, you need
>>> someone who provides a mailbox, rather than just forwarding to a mailbox
>>> elsewhere, these are one provider I've heard of over the course of many
>>> years ...
>>>
>>> <https://www.pobox.com/signup?service_type=mailstore>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No thanks, it's a forwarding service. I'm looking for a mailbox provider.
>>
>> That site was definitely worth visiting for its documentation.
>>
>>
>
>
> Did you try the one I suggested to you previously? Even if not in the USA
>

I did visit its site.
Even if it had been in USA, it wouldn't gotten more notice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mailfence was more attractive.
It's aimed at a quite different user.

On 08/07/2023 06:30 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> <https://www.pobox.com/signup?service_type=mailstore>
>>
>> No thanks, it's a forwarding service. I'm looking for a mailbox provider.
>
> They offer forwarding and mailbox storage, I realised you'd need a
> mailbox ... the clue is in the terminal part of the URL ;-)
>

Yep.
They charge extra to defeat a typical POP3 advantage <GRIN>
I avoid leaving email on server ;/

Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>On 08/06/2023 09:07 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>Richard Owlett wrote:

>>>I want the level of service implicit in a commercial provider.
>>>Are there services with a focus on individuals rather than small
>>>businesses?

>>As I'm in the UK, I know very little of the USA providers, you need
>>someone who provides a mailbox, rather than just forwarding to a mailbox
>>elsewhere, these are one provider I've heard of over the course of many
>>years ...

>>https://www.pobox.com/signup?service_type=mailstore

>No thanks, it's a forwarding service. I'm looking for a mailbox provider.

You misread it. If you subscribe to the "Mailstore" level of service,
you get a mailbox.

>That site was definitely worth visiting for its documentation.

>Thank you.

danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

>[snip]

>first: a quick note. I thought I had posted this earlier
>but I don't see it now. Apologies if this is a dupe.

>Anyway, with the disclaimer/disclosure I used to worh
>there, I'd suggest looking at panix.com. They're a
>small, privately owned, ISP based in NYC, and have
>been around for decades.

>Their mail server works with pop3, imap, and direct text
>based prorams on their unix system such as MM, pine, elm,
>and probably some others.

>Also a web interface.

>Lots of other cool stuff there, aside from e-mail, too.

>price is $10/month, or $100 prepay for the year

>www.panix.com

Don't you get a Linux shell account for that price?

In <uar0ki$2t6lb$2@dont-email.me> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:

>>Lots of other cool stuff there, aside from e-mail, too.

>>price is $10/month, or $100 prepay for the year

>>www.panix.com

>Don't you get a Linux shell account for that price?

eyup. Plus a web server for modest amount of giveaways..

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
....
> I avoid leaving email on server ;/

Ditto.
--
"Six days do your work, but on the seventh day do not work, so that your ox and your donkey may rest and the slave born in your household, and the alien as well, may be refreshed." --Exodus 23:12. Will this wk B slammy like 2day's 3 dentist appts. & 2morrow's MS updates?
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>
>>[snip]
>
>>first: a quick note. I thought I had posted this earlier
>>but I don't see it now. Apologies if this is a dupe.
>
>>Anyway, with the disclaimer/disclosure I used to worh
>>there, I'd suggest looking at panix.com. They're a
>>small, privately owned, ISP based in NYC, and have
>>been around for decades.
>
>>Their mail server works with pop3, imap, and direct text
>>based prorams on their unix system such as MM, pine, elm,
>>and probably some others.
>
>>Also a web interface.
>
>>Lots of other cool stuff there, aside from e-mail, too.
>
>>price is $10/month, or $100 prepay for the year
>
>>www.panix.com
>
> Don't you get a Linux shell account for that price?

Technically,I believe it's a NetBSD shell account.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

On 2023-08-06, Richard Owlett wrote:

>
> A previous thread thread suggested sdf.org. Setting it up to post via
> SeaMonkey has not been successful. Effectively I have to post via
> mutt.

Would you mind trying to debug this further?

If I'm understanding correctly, you can download with POP3 but not send
with SMTP?

What was the system's reaction to "mkvpm set [password]"?

Looking at its source, I think mkvpm writes this SMTP password to a
file, so you could check if $HOME/vmail/.auth exists and has
"smtpauth=[password]" afterwards. I don't think it writes any message on
success (nor on failure, at least from mkvpm itself, but it's possible
one of the invoked utilities will print something?).

--
Nuno Silva

On 08/12/2023 03:47 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2023-08-06, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>>
>> A previous thread thread suggested sdf.org. Setting it up to post via
>> SeaMonkey has not been successful. Effectively I have to post via
>> mutt.
>
> Would you mind trying to debug this further?

Already on my "TODO list".
My goal is to create a _usable_ "Bug Report" against the the
documentation pointed to by the links at top of http://sdf.org/ .
As one with >50 years of customer support for a spectrum of hardware
devices, I think it needs a newbie friendly index.

>
> If I'm understanding correctly, you can download with POP3 but not send
> with SMTP?

Correct.

>
>
> What was the system's reaction to "mkvpm set [password]"?

It responded with a relatively short list of "somethingS".
[perhaps a dozen, IIRC resembled user names]

>
> Looking at its source, I think mkvpm writes this SMTP password to a
> file, so you could check if $HOME/vmail/.auth exists and has
> "smtpauth=[password]" afterwards.

I don't find any sub-directory /home/richard/vmail on my local machine.
Wouldn't that password have to be stored under my account on sdf.org ?

> I don't think it writes any message on
> success (nor on failure, at least from mkvpm itself, but it's possible
> one of the invoked utilities will print something?).
>

A suggestions of diagnostics I could/should run given the only thing I
know to be true is I did attempt to run mkvpm (be correctly or not).

I'll see what I can reconstruct from incomplete and scattered notes.

TIA

On 2023-08-12, Richard Owlett wrote:

>> Looking at its source, I think mkvpm writes this SMTP password to a
>> file, so you could check if $HOME/vmail/.auth exists and has
>> "smtpauth=[password]" afterwards.
>
> I don't find any sub-directory /home/richard/vmail on my local machine.
> Wouldn't that password have to be stored under my account on sdf.org ?

Yes, I meant $HOME/vmail/.auth on sdf.org;

Also, after looking again at mkvpm's source, I think the function which
prints the usage information for mkvpm will also print the password if
it's set, so it should also show after the usage information if you run
"mkvpm".

--
Nuno Silva

On 08/12/2023 10:27 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2023-08-12, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>>> Looking at its source, I think mkvpm writes this SMTP password to a
>>> file, so you could check if $HOME/vmail/.auth exists and has
>>> "smtpauth=[password]" afterwards.
>>
>> I don't find any sub-directory /home/richard/vmail on my local machine.
>> Wouldn't that password have to be stored under my account on sdf.org ?
>
> Yes, I meant $HOME/vmail/.auth on sdf.org;
>
> Also, after looking again at mkvpm's source, I think the function which
> prints the usage information for mkvpm will also print the password if
> it's set, so it should also show after the usage information if you run
> "mkvpm".
>

I get

> To setup your homepage, type 'mkhomepg'
> to create your URL http://rowlett.freeshell.org, type 'mkhomepg -a'
>
> Explore and Enjoy!
>
> $ mkvpm
>
> mkvpm - Allows you to add/mod/del 'virtual pop3 mailboxes' for your
> VHOST domain. By default ANYTHING@domain.com will go to rowlett.
>
> usage examples:
>
> mkvpm add <user@domain> creates 'user's mailbox
> mkvpm gry <user@domain> toggles greylisting
> mkvpm del <user@domain> removes 'user's mailbox
> mkvpm mod <user@domain> modifies 'user's password
> mkvpm aka <alias> <destination> toggles an alias for an address
> mkvpm set <secret> set the SMTP AUTH secret
> mkvpm all <user@domain> toggles wildcard reception to an address
> mkvpm relay <ip> enabled relaying based on your IP
>
>
> $

I take that as meaning no password for SMPT has been set.

_*EXACTLY*_ what should I do now?
I may have taken my "Introduction to Programming" course 60+ yrs ago.
But a half century of customer support suggests I may be missing the
obvious ;/

TIA

On 2023-08-12, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> On 08/12/2023 03:47 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:
>> On 2023-08-06, Richard Owlett wrote:
<snip>
>> What was the system's reaction to "mkvpm set [password]"?
>
> It responded with a relatively short list of "somethingS".
> [perhaps a dozen, IIRC resembled user names]
>

The output of running the
mkvpm command alone would look like below. Note that the
last line would show what secret is set if you
have it set. I have setup nothing else at this point
but the "secret" passphrase in my case.

I ran:
mkvpm set Bgs83lLnmcv

$ mkvpm

mkvpm - Allows you to add/mod/del 'virtual pop3 mailboxes' for your
VHOST domain. By default ANYTHING@domain.com will go to Kirk_Rockstein.

usage examples:

mkvpm add <user@domain> creates 'user's mailbox
mkvpm gry <user@domain> toggles greylisting
mkvpm del <user@domain> removes 'user's mailbox
mkvpm mod <user@domain> modifies 'user's password
mkvpm aka <alias> <destination> toggles an alias for an address
mkvpm set <secret> set the SMTP AUTH secret
mkvpm all <user@domain> toggles wildcard reception to an address
mkvpm relay <ip> enabled relaying based on your IP

secret : Bgs83lLnmcv

$

On 2023-08-12, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> On 08/12/2023 10:27 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:
>> On 2023-08-12, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>
>>>> Looking at its source, I think mkvpm writes this SMTP password to a
>>>> file, so you could check if $HOME/vmail/.auth exists and has
>>>> "smtpauth=[password]" afterwards.
>>>
>>> I don't find any sub-directory /home/richard/vmail on my local machine.
>>> Wouldn't that password have to be stored under my account on sdf.org ?
>>
>> Yes, I meant $HOME/vmail/.auth on sdf.org;
>>
>> Also, after looking again at mkvpm's source, I think the function which
>> prints the usage information for mkvpm will also print the password if
>> it's set, so it should also show after the usage information if you run
>> "mkvpm".
>>
>
> I get
>
>> To setup your homepage, type 'mkhomepg'
>> to create your URL http://rowlett.freeshell.org, type 'mkhomepg -a'
>>
>> Explore and Enjoy!
>>
>> $ mkvpm
>>
>> mkvpm - Allows you to add/mod/del 'virtual pop3 mailboxes' for your
>> VHOST domain. By default ANYTHING@domain.com will go to rowlett.
>>
>> usage examples:
>>
>> mkvpm add <user@domain> creates 'user's mailbox
>> mkvpm gry <user@domain> toggles greylisting
>> mkvpm del <user@domain> removes 'user's mailbox
>> mkvpm mod <user@domain> modifies 'user's password
>> mkvpm aka <alias> <destination> toggles an alias for an address
>> mkvpm set <secret> set the SMTP AUTH secret
>> mkvpm all <user@domain> toggles wildcard reception to an address
>> mkvpm relay <ip> enabled relaying based on your IP
>>
>>
>> $
>
> I take that as meaning no password for SMPT has been set.
>
> _*EXACTLY*_ what should I do now?
> I may have taken my "Introduction to Programming" course 60+ yrs ago.
> But a half century of customer support suggests I may be missing the
> obvious ;/
>
> TIA
>
>

Looking at your output there, you have not actually set
what they call a secret (password/passphrase)
Run from remote prompt:

mkvpm set XxXxXxXxXxXx

Substitute XxXxXxXxXxXx with your password/passphrase.

On 08/12/2023 12:31 PM, Kirk_Rockstein wrote:
> On 2023-08-12, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>> On 08/12/2023 03:47 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>> On 2023-08-06, Richard Owlett wrote:
> <snip>
>>> What was the system's reaction to "mkvpm set [password]"?
>>
>> It responded with a relatively short list of "somethingS".
>> [perhaps a dozen, IIRC resembled user names]
>>
>
>
> The output of running the
> mkvpm command alone would look like below. Note that the
> last line would show what secret is set if you
> have it set. I have setup nothing else at this point
> but the "secret" passphrase in my case.
>
> I ran:
> mkvpm set Bgs83lLnmcv
>
> $ mkvpm
>
> mkvpm - Allows you to add/mod/del 'virtual pop3 mailboxes' for your
> VHOST domain. By default ANYTHING@domain.com will go to Kirk_Rockstein.
>
> usage examples:
>
> mkvpm add <user@domain> creates 'user's mailbox
> mkvpm gry <user@domain> toggles greylisting
> mkvpm del <user@domain> removes 'user's mailbox
> mkvpm mod <user@domain> modifies 'user's password
> mkvpm aka <alias> <destination> toggles an alias for an address
> mkvpm set <secret> set the SMTP AUTH secret
> mkvpm all <user@domain> toggles wildcard reception to an address
> mkvpm relay <ip> enabled relaying based on your IP
>
> secret : Bgs83lLnmcv
>
> $
>

That worked.
Later I should have a chance to see if SeaMonkey can send as well as
receive.

Thanks all.