Hello all,

I have the need to communicate over a simple local serial connection (no
modem involved!), and found that HyperTerminal - which is installed by
default - should be able to do the trick.

The problem is that it pops up a "location information" dialog asks me to
supply info ("Before you can make any phone or modem connections, ...")
which it doesn't need.

Ofcourse, dismissing that one pops up a "confirm cancel" dialog - which
tells me that "Windows needs telephone information about the location from
which you will be dialling." - the latter of which I have no intention to.

Dismissing that causes yet another (warning) dialog to to pop up (sigh...),
telling me that "Before HyperTerminal can dial OR MAKE CONNECTIONS [1], you
must .....". This one with just an "OK" button.

[1] A lie, see below.

Well, surely thats it, the program will abort, right ?

Wrong.

It happily continues with showing the hyperterminal window as well as
"connection description" dialog asking me for a name and allowing me to
select an icon.

After that one ? Again the above "Location information", "confirm cancel"
and warning dialog boxes.

After that I get a "Connect to" dialog bog with - at long least - askes me
which serial port I want to use, followed by a dialog asking for thats ports
settings (speed, parity, byte size and stopbits).

After that I've got a working (yay!) connection.

Phew, I went thru some nonsense that I will never need to go thru again,
right - cause next time I can just click the (shortcut to the) created
settings file.

Wrong.

Clicking that settings file still throws up that first triplet of "I MUST
have ..." dialogs up. :-((

tl;dr:
Other than jumping thru its hoops and giving it what it absolutily doesn't
need, how do I get this program to accept that I want to put up a simple
serial connection ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 at 15:12:52, R.Wieser <address@not.available> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
[]
>tl;dr:
>Other than jumping thru its hoops and giving it what it absolutily doesn't
>need, how do I get this program to accept that I want to put up a simple
>serial connection ?
>
>Regards,
>Rudy Wieser
>
>
Use a different terminal software? If there's nothing built-in,
something from the dark ages may still work (in a command window if
necessary!) - I was going to say "unless the OS blocks direct access to
the hardware", but XP's not as bad in that respect as later OSs.

You just want a terminal; hyper is too hyper (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother," said Pooh, as Eeyore sneezed the crack all over Owl.

John,

> Use a different terminal software?

:-) I did DDG for a suggestion, but all I got was HyperTerminal. And with
it already being present on my system ...

> If there's nothing built-in, something from the dark ages may still work
> (in a command window if necessary!)

They do. At least, the (very simple, basic) ones I wrote (one under DOS,
another one under XP) do. Though INT 0x14 AH=0x04 on XP doesn't seem to
use/honor the timeout (0040:0078) while DOS does. <whistle>

> I was going to say "unless the OS blocks direct access to the hardware",
> but XP's not as bad in that respect as later OSs

As someone who has hobbies in both soft- as well as hardware that certainly
is a reason why I still haven't left XP. :-)

> You just want a terminal; hyper is too hyper (-:

Yup. Telling it "no, you don't need it" once should be enough. But nooo...
:-p

And maybe, just maybe and although I still don't like it I should just allow
that program its hoops (quirks) and live with it. Grrrr...

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 15:12:52 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I have the need to communicate over a simple local serial connection (no
> modem involved!), and found that HyperTerminal - which is installed by
> default - should be able to do the trick.
>
> The problem is that it pops up a "location information" dialog asks me to
> supply info ("Before you can make any phone or modem connections, ...")
> which it doesn't need.
>
> Ofcourse, dismissing that one pops up a "confirm cancel" dialog - which
> tells me that "Windows needs telephone information about the location from
> which you will be dialling." - the latter of which I have no intention to.
>
> Dismissing that causes yet another (warning) dialog to to pop up (sigh...),
> telling me that "Before HyperTerminal can dial OR MAKE CONNECTIONS [1], you
> must .....". This one with just an "OK" button.
>
> [1] A lie, see below.
>
> Well, surely thats it, the program will abort, right ?
>
> Wrong.
>
> It happily continues with showing the hyperterminal window as well as
> "connection description" dialog asking me for a name and allowing me to
> select an icon.
>
> After that one ? Again the above "Location information", "confirm cancel"
> and warning dialog boxes.
>
> After that I get a "Connect to" dialog bog with - at long least - askes me
> which serial port I want to use, followed by a dialog asking for thats ports
> settings (speed, parity, byte size and stopbits).
>
> After that I've got a working (yay!) connection.
>
> Phew, I went thru some nonsense that I will never need to go thru again,
> right - cause next time I can just click the (shortcut to the) created
> settings file.
>
> Wrong.
>
> Clicking that settings file still throws up that first triplet of "I MUST
> have ..." dialogs up. :-((
>
> tl;dr:
> Other than jumping thru its hoops and giving it what it absolutily doesn't
> need, how do I get this program to accept that I want to put up a simple
> serial connection ?
>
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser

Make sure you use a COM port and not a modem on the "Connect using" setting
of Hyper Terminal's dialog. Press Connect, then save the profile to get a
`*.ht` file.

Open that `*.ht` file to open Hyper Terminal and make it immediately connect
to the COM port, where it's ready to receive input to send to the COM port.

R.Wieser wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I have the need to communicate over a simple local serial connection (no
> modem involved!), and found that HyperTerminal - which is installed by
> default - should be able to do the trick.
>
> The problem is that it pops up a "location information" dialog asks me to
> supply info ("Before you can make any phone or modem connections, ...")
> which it doesn't need.
>
> Ofcourse, dismissing that one pops up a "confirm cancel" dialog - which
> tells me that "Windows needs telephone information about the location from
> which you will be dialling." - the latter of which I have no intention to.
>
> Dismissing that causes yet another (warning) dialog to to pop up (sigh...),
> telling me that "Before HyperTerminal can dial OR MAKE CONNECTIONS [1], you
> must .....". This one with just an "OK" button.
>
> [1] A lie, see below.
>
> Well, surely thats it, the program will abort, right ?
>
> Wrong.
>
> It happily continues with showing the hyperterminal window as well as
> "connection description" dialog asking me for a name and allowing me to
> select an icon.
>
> After that one ? Again the above "Location information", "confirm cancel"
> and warning dialog boxes.
>
> After that I get a "Connect to" dialog bog with - at long least - askes me
> which serial port I want to use, followed by a dialog asking for thats ports
> settings (speed, parity, byte size and stopbits).
>
> After that I've got a working (yay!) connection.
>
> Phew, I went thru some nonsense that I will never need to go thru again,
> right - cause next time I can just click the (shortcut to the) created
> settings file.
>
> Wrong.
>
> Clicking that settings file still throws up that first triplet of "I MUST
> have ..." dialogs up. :-((
>
> tl;dr:
> Other than jumping thru its hoops and giving it what it absolutily doesn't
> need, how do I get this program to accept that I want to put up a simple
> serial connection ?
>
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser

Odd. I use HT when at our monitoring locations for direct serial or IP
or serial/IP over cell modem to various equipment and do not have the
problems that you listed.
I no longer use XP and initially moved the XP HT program to W7/32 years
ago and then to W7/64. I use a USB to serial/IP com port converter but
it is invisible to HT.

You might want to check into Putty. I use it as a backup to HT at least
once at every remote physical location, but HT is my fav.

https://www.ssh.com/academy/ssh/putty/windows#running-putty-and-connecting-to-a-server

JJ,

> Make sure you use a COM port and not a modem on the
> "Connect using" setting of Hyper Terminal's dialog.

I did. The only two choices I have are "COM1" and "TCP/IP (winsock)".

> Press Connect, then save the profile to get a `*.ht` file.

Done that too. At least, I've got a .HT file that I used "the second
time".

> Open that `*.ht` file to open Hyper Terminal and make it
> immediately connect to the COM port

Thats exactly the thing, it *doesn't* do that. Instead it again shows those
three dialogs.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Paul,

> Odd. I use HT when at our monitoring locations for direct serial or IP or
> serial/IP over cell modem to various equipment and do not have the
> problems that you listed.

Maybe because you, after the first time using it, always decided to just
choose /something/ in that first "location information" dialog - to placate
the program and be able to continue ? And just forgot doing it ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Paul, others,

> Odd. I use HT when at our monitoring locations for direct serial or IP or
> serial/IP over cell modem to various equipment and do not have the
> problems that you listed.

I just started the program again and this time gave it what it asked for :
"Country/region" set to "united states" and "Area code" to "00000". Dummy
values ofcourse.

/Now/ I do not get those dialogs again. Not when clicking the program or
the .HT (settings) file.

But I can't change them from within HyperTerminal - the stuff is grayed
out - nor do they appear anywhere near the HyperTerminal program related
keys in the registry ...

My guess is that those three dialogs are not actually part of HyperTerminal.
But I've got no idea which program (if any) they belong to. :-(

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

R.Wieser wrote:
> Paul, others,
>
>> Odd. I use HT when at our monitoring locations for direct serial or IP or
>> serial/IP over cell modem to various equipment and do not have the
>> problems that you listed.
>
> I just started the program again and this time gave it what it asked for :
> "Country/region" set to "united states" and "Area code" to "00000". Dummy
> values ofcourse.
>
> /Now/ I do not get those dialogs again. Not when clicking the program or
> the .HT (settings) file.
>
> But I can't change them from within HyperTerminal - the stuff is grayed
> out - nor do they appear anywhere near the HyperTerminal program related
> keys in the registry ...
>
> My guess is that those three dialogs are not actually part of HyperTerminal.
> But I've got no idea which program (if any) they belong to. :-(
>
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser

RAS/Dialup Networking ?

This article refers to "phone book entry".

https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/2813/Creating-Dialup-Connections

Paul

"R.Wieser" <address@not.available> wrote:

> I have the need to communicate over a simple local serial connection
> (no modem involved!), and found that HyperTerminal - which is
> installed by default - should be able to do the trick.
>
> The problem is that it pops up a "location information" dialog asks
> me to supply info ("Before you can make any phone or modem
> connections, ...") which it doesn't need.
>
> Ofcourse, dismissing that one pops up a "confirm cancel" dialog -
> which tells me that "Windows needs telephone information about the
> location from which you will be dialling." - the latter of which I
> have no intention to.
>
> Dismissing that causes yet another (warning) dialog to to pop up
> (sigh...), telling me that "Before HyperTerminal can dial OR MAKE
> CONNECTIONS [1], you must .....". This one with just an "OK" button.
>
>
> [1] A lie, see below.
>
> Well, surely thats it, the program will abort, right ?
>
> Wrong.
>
> It happily continues with showing the hyperterminal window as well as
> "connection description" dialog asking me for a name and allowing me
> to select an icon.
>
> After that one ? Again the above "Location information", "confirm
> cancel" and warning dialog boxes.
>
> After that I get a "Connect to" dialog bog with - at long least -
> askes me which serial port I want to use, followed by a dialog asking
> for thats ports settings (speed, parity, byte size and stopbits).
>
> After that I've got a working (yay!) connection.
>
> Phew, I went thru some nonsense that I will never need to go thru
> again, right - cause next time I can just click the (shortcut to the)
> created settings file.
>
> Wrong.
>
> Clicking that settings file still throws up that first triplet of "I
> MUST have ..." dialogs up. :-((
>
> tl;dr: Other than jumping thru its hoops and giving it what it
> absolutily doesn't need, how do I get this program to accept that I
> want to put up a simple serial connection ?

HyperTerminal is a telnet client (you also have another: telnet.exe)
with a GUI added (but really just a window instead of a command shell).
What you get in Windows is the highly crippled version. The full
version is $65 (https://www.hilgraeve.com/hyperterminal/), but there are
plenty of free telnet clients even with GUIs.

Did you go to Add/Remove Programs, select Windows components, and add
Hyperterm from there? Or did you get an installer file somewhere, like
for the Private Edition, and install that? I don't remember what you
mention happening with the Windows-bundled highly crippled version, but
suspect the Private Edition wants you to give some telemetry
information, so they know where it's being used.

Hard to remember way back when I used Hyperterm, but suspect a lot of
the telephone info it wanted came from Windows. For example, you could
specify your area code. Then you didn't have to specify it, and could
use 7-digit numbers which would use your default area code. Those were
dial-up properties.

I don't remember if Hyperterm used the dial-up properties configured for
the device in the OS:

https://flylib.com/books/2/166/1/html/2/images/0789732807/graphics/08fig08.jpg

Or if it maintained its own dial-up properties:

https://www.hilgraeve.com/hyperterminal-modem/

Remember that Hyperterm was developed back when 7-digit dialog was the
norm. However, by entering default area code, it could make a
reasonable guess if 10-digit dialing was needed. Nowadays you can't do
7-digit dialing without getting an error message from the telco carrier
saying you dialed an invalid number.

Since it appears the Hyperterminal you have is the ancient version that
relied on dial-up modems, seems normal it wants to configure the dial-up
properties for it.

The newer payware Hyperterminal does Ethernet (LAN, TCP/IP), but I
thought the ancient crippled version only did dial-up. Yeah, you don't
have a modem, but specifying the COM port probably has old Hyperterminal
assume a dial-up modem is connected to that COM port.

R.Wieser wrote:
> Paul,
>
>> Odd. I use HT when at our monitoring locations for direct serial or IP or
>> serial/IP over cell modem to various equipment and do not have the
>> problems that you listed.
>
> Maybe because you, after the first time using it, always decided to just
> choose /something/ in that first "location information" dialog - to placate
> the program and be able to continue ? And just forgot doing it ?
>
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser

As Paul Nospam mentioned it is the dial up section of HT.
I never click the box that says Use Country and Area Code.
When I used to use dial out I always put the outgoing area code in the
phone number string instead because often I would be in a different
local area code each time I used HT in dial up/out mode.

Now I use IP or direct serial via com port to the devices.
No phone number needed.
There should be a scroll box for "connect using".
For serial change it to the com port specified by your computer device
manager.

ie: Comm 6 or 10 or some such.
For IP just enter the IP addy: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx

Paul,

> RAS/Dialup Networking ?

Pretty much (I think). On my machine I found it under "Phone and modem
options" on the Control panel.

A place which, using 20-20 vision, is a bit obvious. /Ofcourse/
HyperTerminal is written to support remote connections, and /ofcourse/ that
means it needs to be able to dial out (hey, modems where "tha sh*t" those
days). And /ofcourse/ it checks if it can dial out, and if not tells
(forces) you to fix that first. Every time.

Still strange that I can dismiss that "fix it first" part without the
program terminating though ...

All I need to do now is to check if that dummy data I provided interferes
with anything (sending modem strings after opening the com port) and if so
to what I need to change it. DDG, here I come (again) :-)

> This article refers to "phone book entry".
[snip link]

Thanks. I've saved the page for further reference.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Paul Houston,

> I never click the box that says Use Country and Area Code.

I do not get that option, regardless of if I start HyperTerminal or the
"Phone and modem" control panel applet. In either case just a "Location
Information" dialog without that choice.

> When I used to use dial out

Thats the whole thing : I was NOT trying to "dial out". I just needed an
easy, build-in way to talk to another, local 'puter over a serial
connection.

> There should be a scroll box for "connect using".

Yes, it does .... As the very last thing. :-(

Which means that if I would have wanted to use HyperTerminal over a TCP/IP
connection I would have *still* be forced to fill in the modems location
settings. That makes zero sense to me.

And now I have to go and check if those "Phone and Modem Options" settings
will not interfere with my attempt to set up a simple serial connection
between two 'puters.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 21:51:34 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:
> JJ,
>
>> Make sure you use a COM port and not a modem on the
>> "Connect using" setting of Hyper Terminal's dialog.
>
> I did. The only two choices I have are "COM1" and "TCP/IP (winsock)".
>
>> Press Connect, then save the profile to get a `*.ht` file.
>
> Done that too. At least, I've got a .HT file that I used "the second
> time".
>
>> Open that `*.ht` file to open Hyper Terminal and make it
>> immediately connect to the COM port
>
> Thats exactly the thing, it *doesn't* do that. Instead it again shows those
> three dialogs.
>
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser

Have you checked the `*.ht` file association in the registry? Make sure its
command line in `Shell\Open\Command` includes the `%1` or `%*` argument. Or
with Process Explorer, check the Hyper Terminal process' command line to see
whether the `*.ht` file is actually passed or not.

JJ,

> Have you checked the `*.ht` file association in the registry?

I did not say/mean that the .HT file *doesn't* work, just that it *first*
shows that triplet of dialogs again.

When I double-click it I only get that triplet of dialog boxes *once* (not
twice), after which HyperTerminal is available. No "Connection description"
dialog, nor the "Connect to" one. Just like you have it.

And I think I figured out what the problem is : *Everyone* gets that dialog
[1], but after you enter someting in it /just once/ you never see it again
(and humans being humans, they forget all about it :-) ) - you can't even
call that particular dialog up thru HyperTerminal, or seemingly anywhere
else for that matter ...

[1] which seems to be part of "Phone and Modem Options" (control panel),
and saved into
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Telephony\Locations

Thanks for the help though. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser