On 10/12/2023 15:01, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 12/10/23 07:49, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>> I may not be understanding correctly, but why not use a different
>> terminal to access the test1 user?
>
> Not everybody knows or cares to do that.
>
>> Ctrl-Alt-F[2345] to get a new terminal, log in as test1 and then run
>> startx.
>
> Not all Linux / X11 / WM / DE configurations support doing that.

Linux supports terminal switching as standard (AFAIK) - Alt-F[123456]
X11 suports Ctl-Alt-F[123456]
I don't know about Wayland. If it doesn't that's yet another reason to
keep X11.

Obviously this assumes (yes, I know) that your init system supports
multiple terminals. LMDE and MX Linux (systemd) and Slackware
(init/inittab) do out of the box.

>
> Not all graphics hardware / X11 servers therefor will support that.
>
>> This would seem, to me, to give you a completely separate, private, X
>> session.
>
> It is much more private.
>
> But it's also more disruptive.
>
> There is likely no way to directly share things like the clipboard
> between the multiple X11 sessions.

Why would you want to? It's a separate session.

>
>> I stand ready to be corrected.
>
> I'm sure there are ways to overcome many, if not most, of the problems.
> But this is an atypical / not out of the box solution that will probably
> only be acceptable for a few.
>
> Could it work in the proper configuration, absolutely.
>
> Is your average home system / college starter notebook going to support
> it out of the box? I doubt it.

But do you have evidence of that?

>

--
Chris Elvidge, England
I WILL NOT FAKE RABIES

On 12/10/23 10:14, Chris Elvidge wrote:
> Linux supports terminal switching as standard (AFAIK) - Alt-F[123456]
> X11 suports Ctl-Alt-F[123456]

Yes, Linux is capable of supporting this.

> I don't know about Wayland. If it doesn't that's yet another reason to
> keep X11.

;-)

> Obviously this assumes (yes, I know) that your init system supports
> multiple terminals.

Support can be a few different things:

1) init system is capable of initializing / starting / managing such a
configuration.

2) Vendor provides such a configuration

3) Such vendor provided configuration hasn't been disabled by local admin.

#1 and #2 are what I was thinking of with my previous reply.

> LMDE and MX Linux (systemd) and Slackware
> (init/inittab)  do out of the box.

#2 does not preclude #3. ;-)

> Why would you want to? It's a separate session.

I want to run my email client and my web browser in different
environments /and/ I occasionally want to be able to copy and paste
between them.

Maybe people will want the ability to copy & paste between them. Maybe
they won't.

But copying and pasting is an inherent capability of GUI applications
for decades. Thus I think it is prudent to call out when this basic
capability likely won't be in place between them.

> But do you have evidence of that?

I have run into graphics cards / X11 display servers that wouldn't run
multiple instances for one reason or another.

Be it something as simple as the X11 display server detecting another
process running and refusing to start or as complex as the X11 display
server maintaining some state in the video hardware and corrupting
itself when trying to run multiple instances.

There is no guarantee that you will be able to run multiple X11 display
servers on separate virtual terminals.

I mentioned average home system / college starter notebook as examples
of lower end hardware which is often more limited and / or more
problematic to make do fancier things.

--
Grant. . . .

On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 16:14:22 +0000
Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote:

> On 10/12/2023 15:01, Grant Taylor wrote:
> > On 12/10/23 07:49, Chris Elvidge wrote:
> >> I may not be understanding correctly, but why not use a different
> >> terminal to access the test1 user?
> >
> > Not everybody knows or cares to do that.
> >
> >> Ctrl-Alt-F[2345] to get a new terminal, log in as test1 and then run
> >> startx.
> >
> > Not all Linux / X11 / WM / DE configurations support doing that.
>
> Linux supports terminal switching as standard (AFAIK) - Alt-F[123456]
> X11 suports Ctl-Alt-F[123456]

Yes - however there is one important detail. Running startx does
not start an X session on the terminal you run it from, it uses the first
free virtual terminal - you can detach startx and logout on the terminal
you start on. Also to run more than one X server you have to pass startx an
argument to tell it what display it is if it isn't the default. It's been a
long time since I did this and scripted it in a long lost shell function
and I've a feeling there was another fiddly detail but it's all doable, or
at least was several years ago. ISTR only one X server got access to DRM.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 12/10/23 12:07, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> Yes - however there is one important detail. Running startx does
> not start an X session on the terminal you run it from, it uses the first
> free virtual terminal - you can detach startx and logout on the terminal
> you start on. Also to run more than one X server you have to pass startx an
> argument to tell it what display it is if it isn't the default. It's been a
> long time since I did this and scripted it in a long lost shell function
> and I've a feeling there was another fiddly detail but it's all doable, or
> at least was several years ago.

ACK

> ISTR only one X server got access to DRM.

This ironically may be a case where the most basic / unaccelerated X
server, VGA or frame buffer, would be advantageous.

--
Grant. . . .

On 12/8/23 2:38 PM, Markus Robert Kessler wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm just trying to switch the current user and then invoke some X11
> application, but this does not work.
>
> On Redhat-based machines this never was a problem and I need this means to
> keep my axxounts separate from each other for security reasons. E.g., I do
> a

"Displays" are EVIL - they can cause no end of
problems, and the ways to find/deal with them
are crude and annoying.

However, that's what we get with multi-user/task.

Best to remember that the first display usually
belongs to root ... NOT your desired end-user. As
such you can't do stuff THERE and expect it to
smoothly carry-over to less-privileged users
that pop up later. They each get their OWN displays.

For Linux, esp LXDE, there is the 'autostart' file
at /home/pi/.config/lxsession/LXDE-pi and you can
put valuable stuff in there and it will use the
display for THAT user. If you are daft enough to
use Wayland then that goes away and autostart
is a FOLDER at /home/pi/.config you have to put
".desktop" files into (with BookWorm fer sure).
Recently spent a LOT of time finding this out.
It is NOT well documented.