Since Windows XP days I've been copying my hierarchical menu folder of
program shortcuts to Windows versions from XP to Vista to Windows 8 to
Windows 10 and they have always worked flawlessly, using native Windows.

I've upgraded one of my newer laptops to Windows 11 but I can't find the
method to pin an accordion pullout folder of hierarchically organized
program shortcuts to the taskbar in Windows 11.

This is a critical need since the ability to pin a shortcut menu folder has
ALWAYS been in every Windows version (despite some people using Classic
Shell to do what was always already there <http://www.classicshell.net/>).

I seriously hate to have to install software just to pin a pullout folder
of shortcuts to the Windows 11 taskbar, which is why I'm asking for help.

I have two simple questions, which I hope are answered in this order.

First question (which is the only question that needs to be answered):
*How do I pin a folder of program shortcuts to the native Win11 taskbar?*

Second question (which need not be answered if the first is answered):
*What free software allows a custom Windows 11 taskbar accordion menu?*

I should note that I never saw why people used Classic Shell when all they
may have wanted was a custom start menu (although it did more than that).
So that's why the FIRST question should be answered before any attempt to
answer the second question needs to be made as a workaround to the first.

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 04:27:50 +0200, Bill Powell wrote:

> First question (which is the only question that needs to be answered):
> *How do I pin a folder of program shortcuts to the native Win11 taskbar?*
>
> Second question (which need not be answered if the first is answered):
> *What free software allows a custom Windows 11 taskbar accordion menu?*

I can tell you don't want to use Classic Shell bloatware (which has morphed
to Open Shell bloatware since about 2017 according to the web site)
https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

So I hope you find out from a true Windows expert that there is an easy way
to just pin a simple folder of shortcuts to the Windows 11 taskbar which
seems simple enough to want to do so that you aren't stuck with the crappy
Windows menus which get filled with junk every time something is installed.

If not, you're stuck with the bloatware, which many people use but most
people don't know that Windows 10 never needed it so it is what it is.
https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu/

On 31/03/2024 03:36, Harry S Robins wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 04:27:50 +0200, Bill Powell wrote:
>
>> First question (which is the only question that needs to be answered):
>>  *How do I pin a folder of program shortcuts to the native Win11
>> taskbar?*
>>
>> Second question (which need not be answered if the first is answered):
>>  *What free software allows a custom Windows 11 taskbar accordion menu?*
>
> I can tell you don't want to use Classic Shell bloatware (which has morphed
> to Open Shell bloatware since about 2017 according to the web site)
> https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
>
> So I hope you find out from a true Windows expert that there is an easy way
> to just pin a simple folder of shortcuts to the Windows 11 taskbar which
> seems simple enough to want to do so that you aren't stuck with the crappy
> Windows menus which get filled with junk every time something is installed.
>
> If not, you're stuck with the bloatware, which many people use but most
> people don't know that Windows 10 never needed it so it is what it is.
> https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu/

I use Open-Shell on Windows 11 because it is simple and convenient. On a
modern machine its disk (12.4MB), RAM (0.1MB) and CPU (currently 0%)
loading is negligible.

Harry S Robins wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 04:27:50 +0200, Bill Powell wrote:
>
>> First question (which is the only question that needs to be answered):
>>  *How do I pin a folder of program shortcuts to the native Win11
>> taskbar?*
>>
>> Second question (which need not be answered if the first is answered):
>>  *What free software allows a custom Windows 11 taskbar accordion menu?*
>
> I can tell you don't want to use Classic Shell bloatware (which has morphed
> to Open Shell bloatware since about 2017 according to the web site)
> https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
>
> So I hope you find out from a true Windows expert that there is an easy way
> to just pin a simple folder of shortcuts to the Windows 11 taskbar which
> seems simple enough to want to do so that you aren't stuck with the crappy
> Windows menus which get filled with junk every time something is installed.
>
> If not, you're stuck with the bloatware, which many people use but most
> people don't know that Windows 10 never needed it so it is what it is.
> https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu/

You call Open Shell bloatware? Why? It works perfectly and will do
exactly what the OP is needing.

You also state that "Windows 10 never needed it (Open Shell)" and I
don't understand what you mean by that. Seems to me that what your
suggesting would require an extra click every time you wanted to open a
program.

--
John C.

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 10:56:48 -0700, John C. wrote:

> You call Open Shell bloatware? Why? It works perfectly and will do
> exactly what the OP is needing.

To each his own but to me, it's like all that HP printer & editor bloatware
that gets added when you add an HP printer when all you need is the driver.

And Windows will automatically install the driver so you don't even need
the HP driver but more importantly, you don't need any of the HP bloatware.

> You also state that "Windows 10 never needed it (Open Shell)" and I
> don't understand what you mean by that.

Simple. If all you wanted was a pull out accordion cascade menu, all you
had to do in any Windows (including 8 & 10) was pin a toolbar folder to the
taskmenu, where that toolbar menu contained a hierarchy of your shortcuts.

> Seems to me that what your suggesting would require an extra click
> every time you wanted to open a program.

If you shun the Windows 10 start menu & tiles like I do, you still need a
folder menu where what I do is pin the XP folder (literally, from XP) to
the Windows 10 taskbar and it works perfectly (with slight TARGET editing
for minor path changes over time).

How many clicks is it, I never counted, but let me try it right now.

For shortcuts in the top hierarchy, it was two clicks.
Click 1 on the pinned menu.
Click 2 on the shortcut.

For shortcuts deeper in the hierarchy, it's another click for hierarchy.
Click 1 on the pinned menu.
Click 2 on the hierarchy level.
Click 3 on the shortcut.

The problem that OP has is this feature, which has been in every Windows
version that has had a taskbar up and until Windows 11, is no longer there.

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 16:14:31 -0500, Harry S Robins wrote:

>> You also state that "Windows 10 never needed it (Open Shell)" and I
>> don't understand what you mean by that.
>
> Simple. If all you wanted was a pull out accordion cascade menu, all you
> had to do in any Windows (including 8 & 10) was pin a toolbar folder to the
> taskmenu, where that toolbar menu contained a hierarchy of your shortcuts.

The problem is Microsoft wants you to not have that ability in Windows 11.

That's why Microsoft removed the ability to pin a folder of shortcuts to
the Windows 11 taskbar (even as that ability existed in all Windows prior).

In Win11, you need the bloatware just to maintain your own personal menus.

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 11:01:01 +0100, MikeS wrote:

> On 31/03/2024 03:36, Harry S Robins wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 04:27:50 +0200, Bill Powell wrote:
>>
>>> First question (which is the only question that needs to be answered):
>>> �*How do I pin a folder of program shortcuts to the native Win11
>>> taskbar?*
>>>
>>> Second question (which need not be answered if the first is answered):
>>> �*What free software allows a custom Windows 11 taskbar accordion menu?*
>>
>> I can tell you don't want to use Classic Shell bloatware (which has morphed
>> to Open Shell bloatware since about 2017 according to the web site)
>> https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
>>
>> So I hope you find out from a true Windows expert that there is an easy way
>> to just pin a simple folder of shortcuts to the Windows 11 taskbar which
>> seems simple enough to want to do so that you aren't stuck with the crappy
>> Windows menus which get filled with junk every time something is installed.
>>
>> If not, you're stuck with the bloatware, which many people use but most
>> people don't know that Windows 10 never needed it so it is what it is.
>> https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu/
>
> I use Open-Shell on Windows 11 because it is simple and convenient. On a
> modern machine its disk (12.4MB), RAM (0.1MB) and CPU (currently 0%)
> loading is negligible.

Is there no other way to have your own menu on the taskbar in Windows 11?

On 31/03/2024 11:01, MikeS wrote:
> On 31/03/2024 03:36, Harry S Robins wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 04:27:50 +0200, Bill Powell wrote:
>>
>>> First question (which is the only question that needs to be answered):
>>>  *How do I pin a folder of program shortcuts to the native Win11
>>> taskbar?*
>>>
>>> Second question (which need not be answered if the first is answered):
>>>  *What free software allows a custom Windows 11 taskbar accordion menu?*
>>
>> I can tell you don't want to use Classic Shell bloatware (which has
>> morphed
>> to Open Shell bloatware since about 2017 according to the web site)
>> https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
>>
>> So I hope you find out from a true Windows expert that there is an
>> easy way
>> to just pin a simple folder of shortcuts to the Windows 11 taskbar which
>> seems simple enough to want to do so that you aren't stuck with the
>> crappy
>> Windows menus which get filled with junk every time something is
>> installed.
>>
>> If not, you're stuck with the bloatware, which many people use but most
>> people don't know that Windows 10 never needed it so it is what it is.
>> https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu/
>
> I use Open-Shell on Windows 11 because it is simple and convenient. On a
> modern machine its disk (12.4MB), RAM (0.1MB) and CPU (currently 0%)
> loading is negligible.

+1 (Windows 8.1)

--
Regards
wasbit

Wolf Greenblatt wrote on 4/1/24 12:11 AM:
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 16:14:31 -0500, Harry S Robins wrote:
>
>>> You also state that "Windows 10 never needed it (Open Shell)" and I
>>> don't understand what you mean by that.
>>
>> Simple. If all you wanted was a pull out accordion cascade menu, all you
>> had to do in any Windows (including 8 & 10) was pin a toolbar folder to the
>> taskmenu, where that toolbar menu contained a hierarchy of your shortcuts.
>
> The problem is Microsoft wants you to not have that ability in Windows 11.
>
> That's why Microsoft removed the ability to pin a folder of shortcuts to
> the Windows 11 taskbar (even as that ability existed in all Windows prior).
>
>
>

The ability remains, yet it does takes a bit of effort.

Create a shortcut to the folder using the Send to Desktop option

Rt click to access the shortcut's Properties.
- Edit the shortcut in the Properties dialog box by adding the term
'explorer' to the beginning of the path. Note: omit the '' and leave a
space after the term, press Enter after the edit.
- in the same dialog box, click the Change icon option. In the change
icon dialog box field 'Look for icons in this file' type imageres.dll and
press Enter. Then select the folder icon you like for the shortcut and
click Apply then click OK.

You can leave the shortcut on the Desktop, or imo, move(not copy) inside
the folder for which you created the shortcut.

Right click the shortcut, scroll down and select the 'Show more options'
item. Choose the 'Pin to Taskbar option'

Effectively what you've done by changing the path and icon is to instruct
Windows to treat the shortcut with a bit of extra force slightly
differently to make the 'Pin to Taskbar' feature available.

If you were familiar with the Quick Launch Toolbar(no longer supported in
Windows 11, but still available or create-able in its original/default
folder location) the same above method can place(Pin) the Quick Launch
folder on the Taskbar.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 01/04/2024 21:34, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
> Wolf Greenblatt wrote on 4/1/24 12:11 AM:
>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 16:14:31 -0500, Harry S Robins wrote:
>>
>>>> You also state that "Windows 10 never needed it (Open Shell)" and I
>>>> don't understand what you mean by that.
>>>
>>> Simple. If all you wanted was a pull out accordion cascade menu, all you
>>> had to do in any Windows (including 8 & 10) was pin a toolbar folder
>>> to the
>>> taskmenu, where that toolbar menu contained a hierarchy of your
>>> shortcuts.
>>
>> The problem is Microsoft wants you to not have that ability in Windows
>> 11.
>>
>> That's why Microsoft removed the ability to pin a folder of shortcuts to
>> the Windows 11 taskbar (even as that ability existed in all Windows
>> prior).
>>
>>
>>
>
> The ability remains, yet it does takes a bit of effort.
>
> Create a shortcut to the folder using the Send to Desktop option
>
> Rt click to access the shortcut's Properties.
>  - Edit the shortcut in the Properties dialog box by adding the term
> 'explorer' to the beginning of the path. Note: omit the '' and leave a
> space after the term, press Enter after the edit.
>  - in the same dialog box, click the Change icon option. In the change
> icon dialog box field 'Look for icons in this file' type imageres.dll
> and press Enter.  Then select the folder icon you like for the shortcut
> and click Apply then click OK.
>
> You can leave the shortcut on the Desktop, or imo, move(not copy) inside
> the folder for which you created the shortcut.
>
> Right click the shortcut, scroll down and select the 'Show more options'
> item.  Choose the 'Pin to Taskbar option'
>
> Effectively what you've done by changing the path and icon is to
> instruct Windows to treat the shortcut with a bit of extra force
> slightly differently to make the 'Pin to Taskbar' feature available.
>
> If you were familiar with the Quick Launch Toolbar(no longer supported
> in Windows 11, but still available or create-able in its
> original/default folder location) the same above method can place(Pin)
> the Quick Launch folder on the Taskbar.
>
>
>
It took you longer to write that than I spent downloading Open-Shell and
implementing it on Windows 11.

On 4/1/2024 3:45 PM, MikeS wrote:
> On 01/04/2024 21:34, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>> Wolf Greenblatt wrote on 4/1/24 12:11 AM:
>>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 16:14:31 -0500, Harry S Robins wrote:
>>>
>>>>> You also state that "Windows 10 never needed it (Open Shell)" and I
>>>>> don't understand what you mean by that.
>>>>
>>>> Simple. If all you wanted was a pull out accordion cascade menu, all
>>>> you
>>>> had to do in any Windows (including 8 & 10) was pin a toolbar folder
>>>> to the
>>>> taskmenu, where that toolbar menu contained a hierarchy of your
>>>> shortcuts.
>>>
>>> The problem is Microsoft wants you to not have that ability in
>>> Windows 11.
>>>
>>> That's why Microsoft removed the ability to pin a folder of shortcuts to
>>> the Windows 11 taskbar (even as that ability existed in all Windows
>>> prior).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The ability remains, yet it does takes a bit of effort.
>>
>> Create a shortcut to the folder using the Send to Desktop option
>>
>> Rt click to access the shortcut's Properties.
>>   - Edit the shortcut in the Properties dialog box by adding the term
>> 'explorer' to the beginning of the path. Note: omit the '' and leave a
>> space after the term, press Enter after the edit.
>>   - in the same dialog box, click the Change icon option. In the
>> change icon dialog box field 'Look for icons in this file' type
>> imageres.dll and press Enter.  Then select the folder icon you like
>> for the shortcut and click Apply then click OK.
>>
>> You can leave the shortcut on the Desktop, or imo, move(not copy)
>> inside the folder for which you created the shortcut.
>>
>> Right click the shortcut, scroll down and select the 'Show more
>> options' item.  Choose the 'Pin to Taskbar option'
>>
>> Effectively what you've done by changing the path and icon is to
>> instruct Windows to treat the shortcut with a bit of extra force
>> slightly differently to make the 'Pin to Taskbar' feature available.
>>
>> If you were familiar with the Quick Launch Toolbar(no longer supported
>> in Windows 11, but still available or create-able in its
>> original/default folder location) the same above method can place(Pin)
>> the Quick Launch folder on the Taskbar.
>>
>>
>>
> It took you longer to write that than I spent downloading Open-Shell and
> implementing it on Windows 11.
>

So? For the people who have no don't really want to do things you
might, it is greatly appreciated the effort winston puts in to assist in
helping people find their way around!

--
Stand With Israel!

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 16:16:57 -0500, sticks wrote:

> On 4/1/2024 3:45 PM, MikeS wrote:
>> On 01/04/2024 21:34, ...w�񧱤� wrote:
>>> Wolf Greenblatt wrote on 4/1/24 12:11 AM:
>>>> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 16:14:31 -0500, Harry S Robins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> You also state that "Windows 10 never needed it (Open Shell)" and I
>>>>>> don't understand what you mean by that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Simple. If all you wanted was a pull out accordion cascade menu, all
>>>>> you
>>>>> had to do in any Windows (including 8 & 10) was pin a toolbar folder
>>>>> to the
>>>>> taskmenu, where that toolbar menu contained a hierarchy of your
>>>>> shortcuts.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is Microsoft wants you to not have that ability in
>>>> Windows 11.
>>>>
>>>> That's why Microsoft removed the ability to pin a folder of shortcuts to
>>>> the Windows 11 taskbar (even as that ability existed in all Windows
>>>> prior).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The ability remains, yet it does takes a bit of effort.
>>>
>>> Create a shortcut to the folder using the Send to Desktop option
>>>
>>> Rt click to access the shortcut's Properties.
>>> ��- Edit the shortcut in the Properties dialog box by adding the term
>>> 'explorer' to the beginning of the path. Note: omit the '' and leave a
>>> space after the term, press Enter after the edit.
>>> ��- in the same dialog box, click the Change icon option. In the
>>> change icon dialog box field 'Look for icons in this file' type
>>> imageres.dll and press Enter.� Then select the folder icon you like
>>> for the shortcut and click Apply then click OK.
>>>
>>> You can leave the shortcut on the Desktop, or imo, move(not copy)
>>> inside the folder for which you created the shortcut.
>>>
>>> Right click the shortcut, scroll down and select the 'Show more
>>> options' item.� Choose the 'Pin to Taskbar option'
>>>
>>> Effectively what you've done by changing the path and icon is to
>>> instruct Windows to treat the shortcut with a bit of extra force
>>> slightly differently to make the 'Pin to Taskbar' feature available.
>>>
>>> If you were familiar with the Quick Launch Toolbar(no longer supported
>>> in Windows 11, but still available or create-able in its
>>> original/default folder location) the same above method can place(Pin)
>>> the Quick Launch folder on the Taskbar.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> It took you longer to write that than I spent downloading Open-Shell and
>> implementing it on Windows 11.
>>
>
> So? For the people who have no don't really want to do things you
> might, it is greatly appreciated the effort winston puts in to assist in
> helping people find their way around!

The problem is that Winston's suggestion doesn't work, which makes me
wonder if anyone understands anything about Windows in the first place.

It's clear that anyone who uses the shell bloatware in Windows 10 doesn't
understand what the OP means by a cascaded accordion pull out menu.

It's not even clear that people using the shell bloatware in Windows 11
understand, because Winston's well meaning suggestion just doesn't work.

All it does is pin a dumb folder to the taskbar. But when you click on that
pinned dumb folder, all it does is open the folder.

There is no cascade.
There is no accordion.
There is no pull-out menu.

Winston's solution just creates a dumb folder pinned to the taskbar.
It's much better than nothing. But it's not what the OP is asking for.

Anyone who thinks that's the same thing as the Windows 10 tool bar pinned
to the taskbar doesn't understand what Win10 did & what Win11 doesn't do.

As far as I'm aware, the only solution for the OP is Windows 11 bloatware.

Harry S Robins wrote on 4/1/24 4:12 PM:
> The problem is that Winston's suggestion doesn't work, which makes me
> wonder if anyone understands anything about Windows in the first place.
>
> It's clear that anyone who uses the shell bloatware in Windows 10 doesn't
> understand what the OP means by a cascaded accordion pull out menu.
>
>
Try going back and reading the question the op asked?
In case you missed it or misinterpreted it...
<qp>
" First question (which is the only question that needs to be answered):
*How do I pin a folder of program shortcuts to the native Win11 taskbar?*"
</qp>

My reply answered the 'first' question and specifically for native Win11.

- i.e. No accordion, no cascade in the 'only question that needs to be
answered'
....but do realize the op clearly noted that if the 1st question was
answered, the 2nd "need not be answered if the first is answered" and
"why the FIRST question should be answered before any attempt to answer
the second question"

I do realize that some folks just can't follow directions when presented.
=> Feel free to sing along or play that squeezebox, but at least try to
read the music as it was written.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 18:00:02 -0700, ...w¡ñ§±€ñ wrote:

> Harry S Robins wrote on 4/1/24 4:12 PM:
>> The problem is that Winston's suggestion doesn't work, which makes me
>> wonder if anyone understands anything about Windows in the first place.
>>
>> It's clear that anyone who uses the shell bloatware in Windows 10 doesn't
>> understand what the OP means by a cascaded accordion pull out menu.
>>
>>
> Try going back and reading the question the op asked?
> In case you missed it or misinterpreted it...
> <qp>
> " First question (which is the only question that needs to be answered):
> *How do I pin a folder of program shortcuts to the native Win11 taskbar?*"
> </qp>
>
> My reply answered the 'first' question and specifically for native Win11.
>
> - i.e. No accordion, no cascade in the 'only question that needs to be
> answered'
> ...but do realize the op clearly noted that if the 1st question was
> answered, the 2nd "need not be answered if the first is answered" and
> "why the FIRST question should be answered before any attempt to answer
> the second question"
>
> I do realize that some folks just can't follow directions when presented.
> => Feel free to sing along or play that squeezebox, but at least try to
> read the music as it was written.

The part that shocks me is I can't imagine WHY Microsoft removed basic
features from Windows 11 that existed in every single Windows prior.

Why would Microsoft make a simple cascade-pullout-accordion menu
impossible? What would Microsoft's reason be for disabling basic functions?

Anyway, this recent disagreement above is partially my fault so I apologize
for not mentioning the word "pullout" or "accordion" or "cascade" or "start
menu" in every sentence that contained the word "folder" in the original
post.

I actually had thought most people understood what a pullout start menu
folder was in Windows parlance, where in the original post I did say:
"I seriously hate to have to install software just to pin a
*pullout folder* of shortcuts to the Windows 11 taskbar"
Where I had (wrongly) assumed people understood how Windows 10 had worked.

I also used the "accordion" word when I had asked in the original post:
"What free software allows a custom Windows 11 taskbar *accordion menu*?"

And I had mentioned "a custom *start menu*" where I should never have used
the word "folder" without a descriptor - but it had seemed incomprehensible
to me that people didn't know how menus worked in all versions of Windows
prior to Windows 11 - so I take the blame for not being super clear.

I'll try to be super clear how menus work(ed) moving forward in this quest.

I did try the suggestion from Winston, and while it does what Winston said
it does, it is in no way, shape or form, the solution to the problem set.
https://i.postimg.cc/qM0GkJD5/menu.jpg
That very last green-and-white arrow is the "pinned folder" using the
method that Winston provided - but it doesn't work as intended as a menu.

I apologize for not being super clear, but in my defense, it's surprising
to me that people did not know how pullout accordion cascade start menus
worked in Windows 10 (and in every version of Windows prior), so, since I
didn't expect that, I didn't say "pullout" or "accordion" or "cascade" or
whatever descriptor people need to understand, in every sentence - which is
my fault.

I'll be super clear what a pullout cascade accordion start menu is moving
forward as this is something I'd think everyone would want - not just me.

I'll modify the question, but I think I already know the answer which is
Windows 11 removed the ability for the user to make their own custom
pullout-accordion-cascade menu of shortcuts pinned to the taskbar.

First question (modified):
How do I pin something as simple and necessary and common as a
pullout-cascade-accordion start menu folder of program shortcuts
to the native Win11 taskbar without using special tools?

I don't think I need the second question anymore because it seems clear
from the answers that Microsoft (maliciously?) completely removed the basic
natural capability that was in all Windows versions prior to make your own
pullout-cascade-accordion start menu folder without adding another tool.

If there is no way to natively add a pullout-cascade-accordion start menu
folder of program shortcuts to the Windows 11 taskbar, then I'll use the
Open Shell tools to do it.

It just seemed incomprehensible to me that Microsoft would remove such a
necessary and basic fundamental capability that was in every Windows.

Does anyone know WHY Microsoft removed this basic fundamental function?

On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 12:04:24 +0200, Bill Powell wrote:

> It just seemed incomprehensible to me that Microsoft would remove such a
> necessary and basic fundamental capability that was in every Windows.

I only realized after I had posted, that the way all Microsoft systems
worked in the past, including Windows 10, is they didn't pin the cascaded
pullout accordion start menu to the main portion of the taskbar.

They pinned the cascaded accordion pullout start menu to a different
section of the taskbar, which, in Windows 10, was accomplished by using the
taskbar rightclick menu "Toolbars -> New toolbar -> MyMenu" (where the
"MyMenu" folder is a hierarchical collection of folders and shortcuts).

Why Microsoft would remove the basic capability to maintain your own menus
which aren't destroyed by every program that installs or updates is beyond
my comprehension - because without your own custom menus, the interface
with Windows 11 is severely hampered to the point of being relegated to
having to use the search feature every time you need to run a program.

And if you have to search even once just to run a program, that's already
the definition of a failed graphical user interface - as there's never a
need to search just to run a program that you had installed yourself.

Does anyone know why Microsoft removed the native ability to create custom
accordion pullout cascade start menus in Windows 11 (when that basic
capability was native in every single Windows prior)?

Are they trying to force us to use only their garbage start menu instead?

On 02/04/2024 11:24, Bill Powell wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 12:04:24 +0200, Bill Powell wrote:
>
>> It just seemed incomprehensible to me that Microsoft would remove such a
>> necessary and basic fundamental capability that was in every Windows.
>
> I only realized after I had posted, that the way all Microsoft systems
> worked in the past, including Windows 10, is they didn't pin the cascaded
> pullout accordion start menu to the main portion of the taskbar.
>
> They pinned the cascaded accordion pullout start menu to a different
> section of the taskbar, which, in Windows 10, was accomplished by using the
> taskbar rightclick menu "Toolbars -> New toolbar -> MyMenu" (where the
> "MyMenu" folder is a hierarchical collection of folders and shortcuts).
>
> Why Microsoft would remove the basic capability to maintain your own menus
> which aren't destroyed by every program that installs or updates is beyond
> my comprehension - because without your own custom menus, the interface
> with Windows 11 is severely hampered to the point of being relegated to
> having to use the search feature every time you need to run a program.
>
> And if you have to search even once just to run a program, that's already
> the definition of a failed graphical user interface - as there's never a
> need to search just to run a program that you had installed yourself.
>
> Does anyone know why Microsoft removed the native ability to create custom
> accordion pullout cascade start menus in Windows 11 (when that basic
> capability was native in every single Windows prior)?
>
> Are they trying to force us to use only their garbage start menu instead?

It would be appreciated if those contributing to this thread could
refrain from constantly calling Open-Shell (or any other *Freeware*
programs) *Bloatware*. Bloatware is the term for unwanted
*pre-installed* software on a new computer or device and has been around
since the dawn of PCs.

These days Microsoft is worse than the PC vendors, bloating Windows with
apps and games that I don't want and never use. On the other hand I use
numerous Freeware programs which I have chosen to download and can
easily remove should I change my mind.

Bill Powell wrote on 4/2/24 3:24 AM:
> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 12:04:24 +0200, Bill Powell wrote:
>
>> It just seemed incomprehensible to me that Microsoft would remove such a
>> necessary and basic fundamental capability that was in every Windows.
>
> I only realized after I had posted, that the way all Microsoft systems
> worked in the past, including Windows 10, is they didn't pin the cascaded
> pullout accordion start menu to the main portion of the taskbar.
>

Yes, that is correct and the primary reason I answered the question #1 as
it was asked(i.e. pin a folder to the Taskbar in native Win11).

> They pinned the cascaded accordion pullout start menu to a different
> section of the taskbar, which, in Windows 10, was accomplished by using the
> taskbar rightclick menu "Toolbars -> New toolbar -> MyMenu" (where the
> "MyMenu" folder is a hierarchical collection of folders and shortcuts).
>
> Why Microsoft would remove the basic capability to maintain your own menus
> which aren't destroyed by every program that installs or updates is beyond
> my comprehension - because without your own custom menus, the interface
> with Windows 11 is severely hampered to the point of being relegated to
> having to use the search feature every time you need to run a program.

The seed for the Win 11 Start Menu UI originated long ago in Windows 8
with retaining the earlier Windows UI ability to 'group' multiple apps,
software, and system utilities into a common user named 'Group'. The All
apps then moving from the Win10 'flyout style' to its own top
hierarchal(above Groups and Start pinned items).
>
>
> Are they trying to force us to use only their garbage start menu instead?

The design intent is probably more skewed to Pinning programs and apps to
the Taskbar rather than the Start Menu.

I was never a fan of the older Win7-8-10 Start/Program Menu(s) preferring
the Quick Launch toolbar shortcuts, which incidentally requires the same
manual method(Pin a folder to the Taskbar)...thus pinning the QL folder
and pinning other items to the Taskbar works for my usage style. For the
Start Menu(like Win10 and Win11) I use the 'group' feature to lump most
accessed software(Office, Programs, Apps, Utilities, System)
- ...and rarely a need to use the Search(Windows start button, type a
few letters method)

I do realize that others(like you) want the old style cascade/flyout but
that' hasn't been an item on MSFT's radar 'To Do' or 'Maybe Consider'
lists for Win11 for almost a decade(when Win11 was still an internal beta).

Like you and others there are features I miss...but the end result is the
same...adapt(like we always have had to), tweak, or consider 3rd party
software.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 10:01:44 -0700, ...w¡ñ§±€ñ wrote:

> I do realize that others(like you) want the old style cascade/flyout but
> that' hasn't been an item on MSFT's radar 'To Do' or 'Maybe Consider'
> lists for Win11 for almost a decade(when Win11 was still an internal beta).

I don't know what Microsoft is thinking, as there was never anything wrong
with the XP pullout cascade flyout accordion menu, which persisted until
around Windows 8 and even then worked as a "toolbar" pinned to the taskbar
section for toolbars up until and including all versions of Windows 10.

It worked so well that you could copy the Windows XP top-level menu folder
to every Windows after Windows XP up until 10 and it worked almost out of
the box (all you had to do was adjust minor targets that may have changed).

The main advantage of maintaining your own pullout cascade flyout accordion
menu was that no other program ruined it, so it was always working perfect.

The only things that went into your own pullout cascade flyout accordion
menu were what YOU put there - which kept it beautifully functional.

Like everyone else, when Windows 10 came out with the tiles, I tried to
organize them but then I realized there were binaries involved that you had
no control over so I gave up on the tiled menu.

Yet, like everyone also, when Windows 10 came out I tried to deal with that
alphabetical start menu but it had two major debilitating flaws.
1. Who organizes their menus alphabetically? (not me!)
2. It was filled with garbage thta I had to constantly clean out.

After a while I gave up on trying to organize the Windows 10 binary tiles
and I also gave up on the idiotic alphabetical menu organization in favor
of a pullout cascade flyout accordion menu toolbar pinned to the taskbar
based on functionality.

Menu > Browsers > (browser1, browser2, browser3)
Menu > Editors > (text, photo, video) > (editor1, editor2, editor3)
Menu > Games > (game1, game2, game3)

Every time I install something, it usually puts a shortcut on the desktop
which I then move to where it belongs in the pullout cascade flyout
accordion menu toolbar pinned to the Windows 10 taskbar toolbar section.

This can't be done in Windows 11, so I'm going to have to install the
shell tools to make it possible but I can't understand why something so
commonly available as a menu would be broken by Microsoft on purpose.

Bill Powell wrote on 4/2/24 1:16 PM:
> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 10:01:44 -0700, ...w¡ñ§±€ñ  wrote:
>
>> I do realize that others(like you) want the old style cascade/flyout
>> but that' hasn't been an item on MSFT's radar 'To Do' or 'Maybe
>> Consider' lists for Win11 for almost a decade(when Win11 was still an
>> internal beta).
>
> I don't know what Microsoft is thinking, as there was never anything wrong
> with the XP pullout cascade flyout accordion menu, which persisted until
> around Windows 8 and even then worked as a "toolbar" pinned to the taskbar
> section for toolbars up until and including all versions of Windows 10.
>
> It worked so well that you could copy the Windows XP top-level menu folder
> to every Windows after Windows XP up until 10 and it worked almost out of
> the box (all you had to do was adjust minor targets that may have changed).
>
> The main advantage of maintaining your own pullout cascade flyout accordion
> menu was that no other program ruined it, so it was always working perfect.
>
> The only things that went into your own pullout cascade flyout accordion
> menu were what YOU put there - which kept it beautifully functional.
>
> Like everyone else, when Windows 10 came out with the tiles, I tried to
> organize them but then I realized there were binaries involved that you had
> no control over so I gave up on the tiled menu.
>
> Yet, like everyone also, when Windows 10 came out I tried to deal with that
> alphabetical start menu but it had two major debilitating flaws.
> 1. Who organizes their menus alphabetically? (not me!)
> 2. It was filled with garbage thta I had to constantly clean out.
>
> After a while I gave up on trying to organize the Windows 10 binary tiles
> and I also gave up on the idiotic alphabetical menu organization in favor
> of a pullout cascade flyout accordion menu toolbar pinned to the taskbar
> based on functionality.
>
> Menu > Browsers > (browser1, browser2, browser3)
> Menu > Editors > (text, photo, video) > (editor1, editor2, editor3)
> Menu > Games > (game1, game2, game3)
>
> Every time I install something, it usually puts a shortcut on the desktop
> which I then move to where it belongs in the pullout cascade flyout
> accordion menu toolbar pinned to the Windows 10 taskbar toolbar section.
>
> This can't be done in Windows 11, so I'm going to have to install the
> shell tools to make it possible but I can't understand why something so
> commonly available as a menu would be broken by Microsoft on purpose.

Well, it's been over 2 years since Win11 was released and over 4 since
internal beta, at this stage its a safe bet with better than good odds,
the cascade style is **not** coming back. The same question(why, what
reason, etc) was asked then and the same answer - The Win11 UI is design
intent, and any reversion to old style => Not broken, Won't change, won't
fix, feedback to the circular file

Win10, had 'Groups', too(A group being a user created tile with the
ability to move desired start menu tiles(shortcuts for programs or apps)
to the created Group. Even Control panel(*.cpl
- in Win10 the Windows key on the rt side of taskbar was the Start
icon(Aka Windoew key). Click/touching the Start icon opened the Start
Menu, the tile UI), the alpha listing is the 'App List'(which are just
shortcuts to programs or app packages).

Some users that prefer system type shortcuts in a a pinned folder or a
group use the design intent route for shortcuts instead of trying to muck
up the desktop or taskbar.
e.g.
ms-settings:windowsupdate-history
ms-settings:savelocations
- the above strings as the command operative in a shortcut will open
direct to Update History and System Storage 'Where new content is saved'
options. When using that type of string, its best to create the shortcut
in the user created folder.

If an installed program places a shortcut on the desktop, it's not
Windows 11(no code exists in Windows to do that)...it is the program's
installer. Some programs have the a 'Custom' mode installation(that most
blow right by when installing)option that instructs the program installer
to toggle off a Desktop shortcut and/or toggle off a Start Menu
icon(which is also a shortcut).
- i.e. I doubt a desktop shortcut happens every time you install something.

Good luck..with the shell tools...as noted - the usual end result(like it
always has been) - adapt, tweak or 3rd party software.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

"Bill Powell" <bill@anarchists.org> wrote

| First question (which is the only question that needs to be answered):
| *How do I pin a folder of program shortcuts to the native Win11 taskbar?*
|

I think Winston covered it. You don't. Microsoft have their
longterm plans and it doesn't include customization. As I
understand it, Quick Launch is also gone. I'm afraid Microsoft
have never been fond of anarchists and they're becoming
downright intolerant.

| Second question (which need not be answered if the first is answered):
| *What free software allows a custom Windows 11 taskbar accordion menu?*
| | I should note that I never saw why people used Classic Shell when all they
| may have wanted was a custom start menu (although it did more than that).

I use Classic Shell. (Open Shell seemed to be unstable.)
I can't remember offhand whether I put CS on Win11. I
installed Win11 in a dual boot for testing software, but haven't
really used it.

I use Classic Shell in part to get a basic Start Menu.
I remove apps, search, help, all the recently-used crap,
and end up with Shutdown, Run, Settings and Programs.
Then I open the 2 "Programs" folders, put everything into
All Users, and organize them into category subfolders,
like Internet, Office, Utilities, etc. I only save the actual
program shortcuts.

Over the years it's become typical for software to install
a handful of shortcuts, to non-existent help, to the website,
to uninstall... I dump all that, so that the Start Menu is only
thing that makes sense -- an organized set of program shortcuts.

I also use QuickLaunch on Win10. I don't know the solution
on Win11. The trouble with pinned program shortcuts is that
they become a hub for all opened instances. Then I have to
"minimize all" so that I can hit the Desktop Firefox shortcut.
(Which is still easier than a fixed Start Menu, which I use for
seldom-used programs.)

I can't imagine who thought it was a good idea to have
shortcuts change their function once a program is open. It
assumes that there are never single-instance programs
running.

So, why use Classic Shell? Because it cuts out the graphical
frippery that wastes memory and makes things less efficient.
Because it gives me a Start Menu instead of a prattling
billboard taking up 1/8 of the screen. I think there are several
other advantages, but I've forgotten now. Except for the
disorganized mess that is ribbon menus, I'm almost seeing XP.

I really don't like the flat, Metro-esque program windows
with the slide settings and the hamburger menu. It's mimmicking
a cellphone UI for no reason. A Desktop/laptop UI has a lot
more space and a lot more options. It's as though all the usability
and design experts in Silicon Valley are extreme cellphone addicts.
I imagine them looking for hamburger menus on their toasters, toilets
and refrigerators. And it's not just Microsoft. Nor is it just the
UWP/Metro apps. Chrome, Firefox... A large number of 3rd-party
programs have become flat UIs with minimal configuration options.

The slight 3-D effect of classic view
makes windows more clear when there are several open. One
of the biggest problems I found on Win10 was that it was hard
to see the active window with all windows being mostly white,
flat blobs.

The single change that I find very clever in Win10 vs XP is
the ability to switch Explorer locations by clicking on any
element of the current path. For instance, I can jump from
C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\Etc back up to Windows in a
single click. Someone was using their noggin. :)

Newyana2 wrote on 4/3/24 5:07 AM:
> "Bill Powell" <bill@anarchists.org> wrote
>
> | First question (which is the only question that needs to be answered):
> | *How do I pin a folder of program shortcuts to the native Win11 taskbar?*
> |
>
> I think Winston covered it. You don't.
See my Mar 30th reply.
A folder can be pinned to the native Win11 Taskbar, but it relies on
creating a shortcut to the folder, changing the shorcut's folders path
with the and 'explorer' prefix and then changing the icon(the new path
and new icon allow Windows to treat it differently) thus allowing pinning
to to the Taskbar(and optionally, if desired, pin to the Start menu)
>.
>
> I also use QuickLaunch on Win10. I don't know the solution
> on Win11. The trouble with pinned program shortcuts is that
> they become a hub for all opened instances. Then I have to
> "minimize all" so that I can hit the Desktop Firefox shortcut.
> (Which is still easier than a fixed Start Menu, which I use for
> seldom-used programs.)Quick Launch, in pre-Win11, store location/folder with its user created
and default shortcuts could be added as a toolbar. Quick Launch toolbar
in pre-win11 i.e. is just toolbar with shortcuts.

Win11 does not have an 'add Toolbar' option.

Quick Launch folder location can be found at
AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer. Due to IE mode still present
in Edge and some IE code remaining that folder is retained or can be
created in the same location.

Quick Launch folder's contents, as noted above, are just shortcuts, thus
the Quick Launch folder, using the same long-hand/tweak method for
pinning a folder to the Taskbar(my earlier response)...can be pinned to
the Taskbar(and if desired pinned to the Start Menu).
- the end result is access to the folder's shortcuts quickly via the
'pinning'. Not a toolbar on the Taskbar like in the past, but a
workaround without having to navigate via File Explorer.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

Nick Cine wrote:

>>> If not, you're stuck with the bloatware, which many people use but most
>>> people don't know that Windows 10 never needed it so it is what it is.
>>> https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu/
>>
>> I use Open-Shell on Windows 11 because it is simple and convenient. On a
>> modern machine its disk (12.4MB), RAM (0.1MB) and CPU (currently 0%)
>> loading is negligible.
>
> Is there no other way to have your own menu on the taskbar in Windows 11?

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4636-pin-taskbar-folder-drive-windows-10-a.html