I currently use a USB-connected keyboard because I use Bitlocker on an older
motherboard without the TPM chip, and so must type in my pre-boot
authentication password. This old PC doesn't have built in Blue Tooth
capability, so I rely on a dongle which doesn't preload before boot. But I'm
looking to buy the 'Logitech MX Keys Mini Wireless Illuminated Keyboard for
Business' hoping that if I also buy the Logitech Bolt USB Receiver it will
become active before boot so that I can successfully enter my pre-boot
authentication. I've Googled and asked questions (unanswered) on Logitech
forums, so I'm asking a wider knowledge base here before I spend my money.
Does anyone know if this new Logi Bolt receiver loads before boot so that I
may use it on my old Win 10 PC pre-boot?

On Wed, 03 Apr 2024 13:56:39 +0100, Glen <reply@group.please> wrote:

>I currently use a USB-connected keyboard because I use Bitlocker on an older
>motherboard without the TPM chip, and so must type in my pre-boot
>authentication password. This old PC doesn't have built in Blue Tooth
>capability, so I rely on a dongle which doesn't preload before boot. But I'm
>looking to buy the 'Logitech MX Keys Mini Wireless Illuminated Keyboard for
>Business' hoping that if I also buy the Logitech Bolt USB Receiver it will
>become active before boot so that I can successfully enter my pre-boot
>authentication. I've Googled and asked questions (unanswered) on Logitech
>forums, so I'm asking a wider knowledge base here before I spend my money.
>Does anyone know if this new Logi Bolt receiver loads before boot so that I
>may use it on my old Win 10 PC pre-boot?

I've not heard of the Logitech Bolt but I've been using Logitech USB
receivers for several years and the keyboard/mouse are active before
Windows loads. They can be used to change bios settings, for example.
I would expect that if your dongle puts some dialogue on the screen
you would be able to respond to it.

On 4/3/24 10:47 AM, Peter Johnson wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Apr 2024 13:56:39 +0100, Glen <reply@group.please> wrote:
>
>> I currently use a USB-connected keyboard because I use Bitlocker on an older
>> motherboard without the TPM chip, and so must type in my pre-boot
>> authentication password. This old PC doesn't have built in Blue Tooth
>> capability, so I rely on a dongle which doesn't preload before boot. But I'm
>> looking to buy the 'Logitech MX Keys Mini Wireless Illuminated Keyboard for
>> Business' hoping that if I also buy the Logitech Bolt USB Receiver it will
>> become active before boot so that I can successfully enter my pre-boot
>> authentication. I've Googled and asked questions (unanswered) on Logitech
>> forums, so I'm asking a wider knowledge base here before I spend my money.
>> Does anyone know if this new Logi Bolt receiver loads before boot so that I
>> may use it on my old Win 10 PC pre-boot?
>
> I've not heard of the Logitech Bolt but I've been using Logitech USB
> receivers for several years and the keyboard/mouse are active before
> Windows loads. They can be used to change bios settings, for example.
> I would expect that if your dongle puts some dialogue on the screen
> you would be able to respond to it.
+1
I've got the Logitech M330 mouse and it too will connect and works in the BIOS. USB 2.0 recvr.
--
Linux Mint 21.3 Cinnamon 6.0.4 Kernel 6.5.0-26-generic
Al

On 4/3/2024 8:56 AM, Glen wrote:
> I currently use a USB-connected keyboard because I use Bitlocker on an older
> motherboard without the TPM chip, and so must type in my pre-boot
> authentication password. This old PC doesn't have built in Blue Tooth
> capability, so I rely on a dongle which doesn't preload before boot. But I'm
> looking to buy the 'Logitech MX Keys Mini Wireless Illuminated Keyboard for
> Business' hoping that if I also buy the Logitech Bolt USB Receiver it will
> become active before boot so that I can successfully enter my pre-boot
> authentication. I've Googled and asked questions (unanswered) on Logitech
> forums, so I'm asking a wider knowledge base here before I spend my money.
> Does anyone know if this new Logi Bolt receiver loads before boot so that I
> may use it on my old Win 10 PC pre-boot?
>

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Logitech_bolt

"Logitech bolt receivers can pair up to six keyboards and mice each.
Logitech bolt receivers are fully HID compliant and work in the bios
and are paired on a hardware level."

There is a limited set of Bolt-capable products, so you want
a product that is Bolt-capable. If the keyboard supports both Unifying
and Bolt, it would say in the specs. Some Bolt-capable products,
as a result, don't come with the Bolt Receiver in the box, and
the user purchases it separately.

The Bolt, presumably, uses BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy), but has
closed some of the holes that allowed hijacking on the older
product. You can't use an SDR to listen in on the typing.
Unless you know how to crack the crypto.

The Logi website seems to answer a lot of questions, just
not the questions real people have. Such as the BIOS question,
which is asked over and over again, and we can never find an
advert that says "Works in BIOS, peeps!". They never say that.
And sometimes a user buys something, and dammit if the keyboard
doesn't work in BIOS. So at least we have the word of a Gentoo
developer, that it's BIOS-capable, and the HID I was expecting
(Human Interface Device, what you would see for an old wired
keyboard when in Device Manager).

The HID part of it, ensures it works everywhere. If it
has any secondary interfaces, those might be things that
some "App" reads and writes the registers. I'm not going to
look further, to see if it is a Composite Device. As I'm
not expecting any tech types have run USBTreeView on the thing.
That's expecting too much at this point. I was lucky to
get the HID breadcrumb as it was.
HID (type your letters, they are seen)
/
USB Computer ----- USB_Composite
[BIOS, sees \
you are typing] Maybe some control functions on this leg

I have a mere keyboard, which has *five* things hiding behind
a USB Composite, and several of them should have been pinned
off in firmware so they would not show up. One of them
might be a LED illumination controller. When you use USBTreeView,
you can see the details of some of the things hiding down there.

Paul

On Wed, 3 Apr 2024 17:17:36 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 4/3/2024 8:56 AM, Glen wrote:
>> I currently use a USB-connected keyboard because I use Bitlocker on an older
>> motherboard without the TPM chip, and so must type in my pre-boot
>> authentication password. This old PC doesn't have built in Blue Tooth
>> capability, so I rely on a dongle which doesn't preload before boot. But I'm
>> looking to buy the 'Logitech MX Keys Mini Wireless Illuminated Keyboard for
>> Business' hoping that if I also buy the Logitech Bolt USB Receiver it will
>> become active before boot so that I can successfully enter my pre-boot
>> authentication. I've Googled and asked questions (unanswered) on Logitech
>> forums, so I'm asking a wider knowledge base here before I spend my money.
>> Does anyone know if this new Logi Bolt receiver loads before boot so that I
>> may use it on my old Win 10 PC pre-boot?
>>
>
>https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Logitech_bolt
>
> "Logitech bolt receivers can pair up to six keyboards and mice each.
> Logitech bolt receivers are fully HID compliant and work in the bios
> and are paired on a hardware level."
>
>There is a limited set of Bolt-capable products, so you want
>a product that is Bolt-capable. If the keyboard supports both Unifying
>and Bolt, it would say in the specs. Some Bolt-capable products,
>as a result, don't come with the Bolt Receiver in the box, and
>the user purchases it separately.
>
>The Bolt, presumably, uses BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy), but has
>closed some of the holes that allowed hijacking on the older
>product. You can't use an SDR to listen in on the typing.
>Unless you know how to crack the crypto.
>
>The Logi website seems to answer a lot of questions, just
>not the questions real people have. Such as the BIOS question,
>which is asked over and over again, and we can never find an
>advert that says "Works in BIOS, peeps!". They never say that.
>And sometimes a user buys something, and dammit if the keyboard
>doesn't work in BIOS. So at least we have the word of a Gentoo
>developer, that it's BIOS-capable, and the HID I was expecting
>(Human Interface Device, what you would see for an old wired
>keyboard when in Device Manager).
>
>The HID part of it, ensures it works everywhere. If it
>has any secondary interfaces, those might be things that
>some "App" reads and writes the registers. I'm not going to
>look further, to see if it is a Composite Device. As I'm
>not expecting any tech types have run USBTreeView on the thing.
>That's expecting too much at this point. I was lucky to
>get the HID breadcrumb as it was.
> HID (type your letters, they are seen)
> /
> USB Computer ----- USB_Composite
> [BIOS, sees \
> you are typing] Maybe some control functions on this leg
>
>I have a mere keyboard, which has *five* things hiding behind
>a USB Composite, and several of them should have been pinned
>off in firmware so they would not show up. One of them
>might be a LED illumination controller. When you use USBTreeView,
>you can see the details of some of the things hiding down there.
>
> Paul

Thank you very much for your time and effort on this one, Paul. Currently, I
use a Logitech K380 wireless keyboard, but no matter what I try, my older
Win 10 machine refuses to see it pre boot, even after untoggling the "Allow
the computer to turn off this device to save power" option in the device's
'Power Management' settings. It's not the type of keyboard that relies on a
Logitech Unifier dongle. There isn't that tell-tale Unifying Logo on it. It
connects using either built-in onboard Blue Tooth capability or a dongle,
which is what use for general BT connectivity.

Now, here's the thing, I also have another more modern Win 11 PC
(NUC11TNHi5) which comes with built-in BT connectivity and a TPM chip for
bit locker, and the keyboard works fine pre-boot with that. I was hoping to
supplant the wired keyboard that I have to use on my older PC pre-boot with
the rather nice-looking MX Keys Mini keyboard and use the new Logitech Bolt
USB Receiver that goes with it, but I'm doubtful that it'll work because the
drivers for this newer dongle, like any other BT dongle, I fear, load after
boot. Seems to me the best way around this problem is to upgrade my old PC
before buying expensive new peripherals for it. Thanks again, Paul.

On Wed, 3 Apr 2024 17:17:36 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 4/3/2024 8:56 AM, Glen wrote:
>> I currently use a USB-connected keyboard because I use Bitlocker on an older
>> motherboard without the TPM chip, and so must type in my pre-boot
>> authentication password. This old PC doesn't have built in Blue Tooth
>> capability, so I rely on a dongle which doesn't preload before boot. But I'm
>> looking to buy the 'Logitech MX Keys Mini Wireless Illuminated Keyboard for
>> Business' hoping that if I also buy the Logitech Bolt USB Receiver it will
>> become active before boot so that I can successfully enter my pre-boot
>> authentication. I've Googled and asked questions (unanswered) on Logitech
>> forums, so I'm asking a wider knowledge base here before I spend my money.
>> Does anyone know if this new Logi Bolt receiver loads before boot so that I
>> may use it on my old Win 10 PC pre-boot?
>>
>
>https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Logitech_bolt
>
> "Logitech bolt receivers can pair up to six keyboards and mice each.
> Logitech bolt receivers are fully HID compliant and work in the bios
> and are paired on a hardware level."

This part is very interesting. It seems to suggest that, where other BT
receivers connect keyboards after boot, this Logi Bolt receiver might see a
Logitech MX Keys Mini Wireless pre-boot, which is exactly what I'm looking
for. I might just buy the damn things and try it. Cheers!
>
>There is a limited set of Bolt-capable products, so you want
>a product that is Bolt-capable. If the keyboard supports both Unifying
>and Bolt, it would say in the specs. Some Bolt-capable products,
>as a result, don't come with the Bolt Receiver in the box, and
>the user purchases it separately.
>
>The Bolt, presumably, uses BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy), but has
>closed some of the holes that allowed hijacking on the older
>product. You can't use an SDR to listen in on the typing.
>Unless you know how to crack the crypto.
>
>The Logi website seems to answer a lot of questions, just
>not the questions real people have. Such as the BIOS question,
>which is asked over and over again, and we can never find an
>advert that says "Works in BIOS, peeps!". They never say that.
>And sometimes a user buys something, and dammit if the keyboard
>doesn't work in BIOS. So at least we have the word of a Gentoo
>developer, that it's BIOS-capable, and the HID I was expecting
>(Human Interface Device, what you would see for an old wired
>keyboard when in Device Manager).
>
>The HID part of it, ensures it works everywhere. If it
>has any secondary interfaces, those might be things that
>some "App" reads and writes the registers. I'm not going to
>look further, to see if it is a Composite Device. As I'm
>not expecting any tech types have run USBTreeView on the thing.
>That's expecting too much at this point. I was lucky to
>get the HID breadcrumb as it was.
> HID (type your letters, they are seen)
> /
> USB Computer ----- USB_Composite
> [BIOS, sees \
> you are typing] Maybe some control functions on this leg
>
>I have a mere keyboard, which has *five* things hiding behind
>a USB Composite, and several of them should have been pinned
>off in firmware so they would not show up. One of them
>might be a LED illumination controller. When you use USBTreeView,
>you can see the details of some of the things hiding down there.
>
> Paul

On Wed, 3 Apr 2024 17:17:36 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 4/3/2024 8:56 AM, Glen wrote:
>> I currently use a USB-connected keyboard because I use Bitlocker on an older
>> motherboard without the TPM chip, and so must type in my pre-boot
>> authentication password. This old PC doesn't have built in Blue Tooth
>> capability, so I rely on a dongle which doesn't preload before boot. But I'm
>> looking to buy the 'Logitech MX Keys Mini Wireless Illuminated Keyboard for
>> Business' hoping that if I also buy the Logitech Bolt USB Receiver it will
>> become active before boot so that I can successfully enter my pre-boot
>> authentication. I've Googled and asked questions (unanswered) on Logitech
>> forums, so I'm asking a wider knowledge base here before I spend my money.
>> Does anyone know if this new Logi Bolt receiver loads before boot so that I
>> may use it on my old Win 10 PC pre-boot?
>>
>
>https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Logitech_bolt
>
> "Logitech bolt receivers can pair up to six keyboards and mice each.
> Logitech bolt receivers are fully HID compliant and work in the bios
> and are paired on a hardware level."
>
>There is a limited set of Bolt-capable products, so you want
>a product that is Bolt-capable. If the keyboard supports both Unifying
>and Bolt, it would say in the specs. Some Bolt-capable products,
>as a result, don't come with the Bolt Receiver in the box, and
>the user purchases it separately.
>
>The Bolt, presumably, uses BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy), but has
>closed some of the holes that allowed hijacking on the older
>product. You can't use an SDR to listen in on the typing.
>Unless you know how to crack the crypto.
>
>The Logi website seems to answer a lot of questions, just
>not the questions real people have. Such as the BIOS question,
>which is asked over and over again, and we can never find an
>advert that says "Works in BIOS, peeps!". They never say that.
>And sometimes a user buys something, and dammit if the keyboard
>doesn't work in BIOS. So at least we have the word of a Gentoo
>developer, that it's BIOS-capable, and the HID I was expecting
>(Human Interface Device, what you would see for an old wired
>keyboard when in Device Manager).
>
>The HID part of it, ensures it works everywhere. If it
>has any secondary interfaces, those might be things that
>some "App" reads and writes the registers. I'm not going to
>look further, to see if it is a Composite Device. As I'm
>not expecting any tech types have run USBTreeView on the thing.
>That's expecting too much at this point. I was lucky to
>get the HID breadcrumb as it was.
> HID (type your letters, they are seen)
> /
> USB Computer ----- USB_Composite
> [BIOS, sees \
> you are typing] Maybe some control functions on this leg
>
>I have a mere keyboard, which has *five* things hiding behind
>a USB Composite, and several of them should have been pinned
>off in firmware so they would not show up. One of them
>might be a LED illumination controller. When you use USBTreeView,
>you can see the details of some of the things hiding down there.
>
> Paul

It all works, just as I hoped and you suspected. I bought a Logitech Bolt
USB Receiver to upgrade from the old Unifying dongle and a compatible MX
Keys Mini Minimalist Wireless Illuminated Keyboard - Graphite UK English
(Qwerty) The keyboard is seen pre boot and operates just like a wired
keyboard. I had to buy the business edition keyboard because the standard
one, while said to be of a UK type, didn't have a '£' key. So, happier than
I thought I'd be with this upgrade I'm now going to utilize that Logi Bolt
receiver some more by upgrading my Logitech Anywhere mouse to the newer MX
Anywhere 3S Compact Wireless Performance Mouse - Graphite (8k) Thanks for
all your help, Paul.