On 29/03/2024 20:46, knuttle wrote:
> On 03/29/2024 3:54 PM, bilsch01 wrote:
>> I backup a 15 GB folder containing many files about twice per year.
>> I  use linux ddCopy for that but now I want to use a windows program.
>> I want to do the backup to an external HDD.
>> I'm willing to pay for the program, but prefer free.
>>
>> QUESTION: Please suggest a program for this kind of backup.
>>
>> Thank you.
>> Bill S.
>>
>>
> I have been using a free program called Syncback Free.
> https://www.2brightsparks.com/download-syncbackfree.html
> There are paid version, but only needed if you are using the program in
> a commercial setting.
>
> Once you copy the data to the external drive, you can use Syncback Free
> to either back up the data that has changed since it was last run, or
> you can use it to sync your computer and external drive so you have
> current copies of everything.
>
> I learned of the program when I was forced from the OS/2 environment
> into a Windows environment about 20 years ago. While I don't have it run
> automatically on my laptop, I manually run it once of twice a week,
> activity considered.
>
> I sync my laptop and desktop with Syncback free, and use the native
> Windows back up, to backup the desktop to the external drive. Syncback
> has never failed me, but I have had problems with he Windows backup
>

I don't see the OP but it could be that I removed it as being answered.

There is also Free File Sync which is open source
- https://freefilesync.org/

--
Regards
wasbit

wasbit <wasbit@nowhere.com> wrote:

> I have been using a free program called Syncback Free.
> https://www.2brightsparks.com/download-syncbackfree.html
> There are paid version, but only needed if you are using the program in
> a commercial setting.

The free version does not support VSC (Volume Shadow Copy) which is
needed to backup locked files. Because of this, I had to pay to upgrade
to a Lite* version that does support VSC**. I already have a many-year
setup working with their free version, and paying to add VSC support
meant I didn't have to change anything (other than no longer seeing
errors in the logs on trying to copy files that were locked).

* They no longer have their Lite edition ($20). The next step up now
from their free version is their SE edition ($40). If I was to
start again, free FreeFileSync would be more attractive than a $40
solution although I find FreeFileSync's UI is clumsy.

** A solution is for you to use "vssadmin create shadow" to create a
shadow copy of the source, and use that in the sync job. Most
users are not comfortable using vssadmin, or learning about
shadows. Plus, the "create" directive is not available in vssadmin
in Home editions of Windows.

https://www.2brightsparks.com/assets/pdf/SyncBackFree.pdf
"VSS is not available in SyncBackFree."
(Only in SE and Pro editions)

There are some other features missing in SyncBack Free that might be
important to some users. While SB Free can sync using FTP, it doesn't
support secure FTP (sFTP, FTPs). No file integrity check in free
version (to ensure what landed at the target matches the source). Lots
of features missing in the free version. See the comparison table at:

https://www.2brightsparks.com/syncback/compare.html

I no longer have my comparison sheet when I first trialed both SyncBack
Free and FreeFileSync to check which features were not common in both,
or to compare SyncBack Lite (and their SE edition) with FreeFileSync.

If locked files are not an issue, like the folders/files you intend to
sync or mirror will be quiescent (not open for write access) at the time
the sync job runs, free SyncBack will suffice. Sometimes users want to
include their e-mails in backups, but without VSC those files are likely
locked. They may be unaware some files are locked until and unless they
review the job logs.

Or use FreeFileSync, as you mention, for a freeware solution that does
support VSC provided you don't need Syncback SE's other features now or
in the future.

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 14:32:03 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:

> wasbit <wasbit@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> I have been using a free program called Syncback Free.
>> https://www.2brightsparks.com/download-syncbackfree.html
>> There are paid version, but only needed if you are using the program in
>> a commercial setting.
>
> The free version does not support VSC (Volume Shadow Copy) which is
> needed to backup locked files. Because of this, I had to pay to upgrade
> to a Lite* version that does support VSC**. I already have a many-year
> setup working with their free version, and paying to add VSC support
> meant I didn't have to change anything (other than no longer seeing
> errors in the logs on trying to copy files that were locked).
>
> * They no longer have their Lite edition ($20). The next step up now
> from their free version is their SE edition ($40). If I was to
> start again, free FreeFileSync would be more attractive than a $40
> solution although I find FreeFileSync's UI is clumsy.
> ** A solution is for you to use "vssadmin create shadow" to create a
> shadow copy of the source, and use that in the sync job. Most
> users are not comfortable using vssadmin, or learning about
> shadows. Plus, the "create" directive is not available in vssadmin
> in Home editions of Windows.
>https://www.2brightsparks.com/assets/pdf/SyncBackFree.pdf
> "VSS is not available in SyncBackFree."
> (Only in SE and Pro editions)
>There are some other features missing in SyncBack Free that might be
> important to some users. While SB Free can sync using FTP, it doesn't
> support secure FTP (sFTP, FTPs). No file integrity check in free
> version (to ensure what landed at the target matches the source). Lots
> of features missing in the free version. See the comparison table at:
>
> https://www.2brightsparks.com/syncback/compare.html
>
> I no longer have my comparison sheet when I first trialed both SyncBack
> Free and FreeFileSync to check which features were not common in both,
> or to compare SyncBack Lite (and their SE edition) with FreeFileSync.
>
> If locked files are not an issue, like the folders/files you intend to
> sync or mirror will be quiescent (not open for write access) at the time
> the sync job runs, free SyncBack will suffice. Sometimes users want to
> include their e-mails in backups, but without VSC those files are likely
> locked. They may be unaware some files are locked until and unless they
> review the job logs.
>
> Or use FreeFileSync, as you mention, for a freeware solution that does
> support VSC provided you don't need Syncback SE's other features now or
> in the future.
>

I recently posted about a Freeware sync program called Synchredible.
Its free for personal use. It does require registration with an email address.

https://www.ascompsoftware.com/en/products/synchredible/

According to https://www.ascompsoftware.com/en/products/synchredible/tab/functions
the free Standard Edition can "Copy exclusively opened files using VSS".

On 3/30/2024 3:32 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> wasbit <wasbit@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> I have been using a free program called Syncback Free.
>> https://www.2brightsparks.com/download-syncbackfree.html
>> There are paid version, but only needed if you are using the program in
>> a commercial setting.
>
> The free version does not support VSC (Volume Shadow Copy) which is
> needed to backup locked files. Because of this, I had to pay to upgrade
> to a Lite* version that does support VSC**. I already have a many-year
> setup working with their free version, and paying to add VSC support
> meant I didn't have to change anything (other than no longer seeing
> errors in the logs on trying to copy files that were locked).
>
> * They no longer have their Lite edition ($20). The next step up now
> from their free version is their SE edition ($40). If I was to
> start again, free FreeFileSync would be more attractive than a $40
> solution although I find FreeFileSync's UI is clumsy.
>
> ** A solution is for you to use "vssadmin create shadow" to create a
> shadow copy of the source, and use that in the sync job. Most
> users are not comfortable using vssadmin, or learning about
> shadows. Plus, the "create" directive is not available in vssadmin
> in Home editions of Windows.
>
> https://www.2brightsparks.com/assets/pdf/SyncBackFree.pdf
> "VSS is not available in SyncBackFree."
> (Only in SE and Pro editions)
>
> There are some other features missing in SyncBack Free that might be
> important to some users. While SB Free can sync using FTP, it doesn't
> support secure FTP (sFTP, FTPs). No file integrity check in free
> version (to ensure what landed at the target matches the source). Lots
> of features missing in the free version. See the comparison table at:
>
> https://www.2brightsparks.com/syncback/compare.html
>
> I no longer have my comparison sheet when I first trialed both SyncBack
> Free and FreeFileSync to check which features were not common in both,
> or to compare SyncBack Lite (and their SE edition) with FreeFileSync.
>
> If locked files are not an issue, like the folders/files you intend to
> sync or mirror will be quiescent (not open for write access) at the time
> the sync job runs, free SyncBack will suffice. Sometimes users want to
> include their e-mails in backups, but without VSC those files are likely
> locked. They may be unaware some files are locked until and unless they
> review the job logs.
>
> Or use FreeFileSync, as you mention, for a freeware solution that does
> support VSC provided you don't need Syncback SE's other features now or
> in the future.
>

I believe you can manually issue a command, to VSS snapshot a volume.
Then pass the identifier to the sync program. As a breadcrumb of the
sphere of operation, vssadmin can show you the existing shadows...

vssadmin list shadows # administrator window

Contents of shadow copy set ID: {30b3692c-b3a3-4054-bbda-1f0656252692}
Contained 1 shadow copies at creation time: 3/17/2024 8:17:39 PM
Shadow Copy ID: {5c6088b4-ba72-4d64-b0ae-a8813204cd46}
Original Volume: (H:)\\?\Volume{bd4d69bc-6fbb-4f12-b804-f32c6b9e828c}\ <=== original volume
Shadow Copy Volume: \\?\GLOBALROOT\Device\HarddiskVolumeShadowCopy1 <=== pointer to [frozen] shadow copy
Originating Machine: TEN
Service Machine: TEN
Provider: 'Microsoft Software Shadow Copy provider 1.0'
Type: ClientAccessibleWriters
Attributes: Persistent, Client-accessible, No auto release, Differential, Auto recovered

And for some reason right now, my Win11 Home is running a shadow on
the other OS partition, which is weird, as System Protection is turned off.
Hmmm. (This is likely a leftover from a quick Macrium run, some time ago.)

The OPs volume is a Data Volume, not the C: drive, so the risk
is a lot lower that a file will be open and have outstanding writes.
On the C: drive for example, there are a couple things that VSS
cannot quiesce (the VSS of C: is not "perfection").

Another way to do it, would be to do the backup operation from
a WinPE disc. Macrium RescueCD, 32-bit version, allows running
32-bit programs, as long as they don't involve too many regular
Windows subsystems. For example, VSS is missing in the subsystems,
but Macrium doesn't need it in that case (uses PSS), since all the target
file systems are at rest. The Rescue CD loads WinPE.wim into
RAMDisk X: and during the CD-based OS run, the OS is in X: .
This leaves the C: drive letter available to label the regular
Windows C: (that is at rest) that way. I have run HDTune 2.55 (free)
from there for benchmark purposes for example. The reason for doing
it there in particular, is a WinPE OS is "quiet" and doesn't interfere
with benchmarks.

These are all bar-bet material in terms of practicality,
but the point is, you don't have to "pay for VSS" in a case
like this. You can work around it.

Paul

Note: Paul cross-posted what was originally a multi-posted copy of the
OP's thread, and without notification of the change the result of which
creates a floater post. I restored the Newsgroups header to just this
newsgroup in my reply.

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> I believe you can manually issue a command, to VSS snapshot a volume.
> Then pass the identifier to the sync program.

In the *multi*-posted (not cross-posted) copy of this thread the OP
started separately over in the Windows 11 newsgroup, I mention using
vssadmin to create shadows. However, in the Home edition of Windows, he
cannot create shadows. On my Home edition, when I run "vssadmin /?",
the create directive is missing. That means I cannot run "vssadmin
create shadow". A backup program can still code to use the VSS API
(https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/vss/volume-shadow-copy-reference),
but I cannot create shadows using the vssadmin tool for a 'copy' program
to use a shadow as the file source.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/it-pro/windows-server-2012-R2-and-2012/cc788055(v=ws.11)?redirectedfrom=MSDN

Instead of vssadmin, perhaps wmic (deprecated) or PowerShell can be
used, as in (using an admin-privileged command shell):

wmic shadowcopy call create Volume='E:\'

I've never used wmic to create shadow copies, so that's something I'd
have to research online. This also assume the Home edition is not
similar crippled to disallow creating shadow copies using wmic.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
> Note: Paul cross-posted what was originally a multi-posted copy of the
> OP's thread, and without notification of the change the result of which
> creates a floater post. I restored the Newsgroups header to just this
> newsgroup in my reply.

AFAICT, there's no "multi-posted copy of the OP's thread", but someone
posted a response to the OP in alt.comp.os.windows-11, but posted that
response (only) to this group (alt.comp.os.windows-10).

Because 'someone' posted (only) in HTML, his post probably didn't make
it to many servers. So wrong group and wrong format.

The OP (bilsch01) posted to alt.comp.os.windows-11 and (AFAICT) sofar
has not posted/responded to this group (alt.comp.os.windows-10).

[...]

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
>
>> Note: Paul cross-posted what was originally a multi-posted copy of the
>> OP's thread, and without notification of the change the result of which
>> creates a floater post. I restored the Newsgroups header to just this
>> newsgroup in my reply.
>
> AFAICT, there's no "multi-posted copy of the OP's thread", but someone
> posted a response to the OP in alt.comp.os.windows-11, but posted that
> response (only) to this group (alt.comp.os.windows-10).
>
> Because 'someone' posted (only) in HTML, his post probably didn't make
> it to many servers. So wrong group and wrong format.
>
> The OP (bilsch01) posted to alt.comp.os.windows-11 and (AFAICT) sofar
> has not posted/responded to this group (alt.comp.os.windows-10).

Bilsch01 starter post in Windows 10 newsgroup: <--.
From: bilsch01 <usenet@writer.com> |-- mismatch
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11 <--'
Message-ID: <uu7691$fvrd$1@dont-email.me> <---------------.
|
Bilsch01 starter post in Windows 11 newsgroup: <--. |-- same
From: bilsch01 <usenet@writer.com> |-- match | MID
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11 <--' |
Message-ID: <uu7691$fvrd$1@dont-email.me> <---------------'

Why would his post show up in the Win10 newsgroup when his Newsgroups
header never included it? The client specifies the Newsgroups header to
tell the server where to point. Bilsch01 used ES, but even if ES
somehow managed to screw up its overview database, it don't see how that
would propagate to my individual.net provider who maintains their own
separate overview database. NNTP servers don't share overview
databases, and why the same article on different servers has different
indexes on each server.

When wasbit *replied*, his Newsgroups header had just the Win10
newsgroup. Paul added both the Win10 and Win11 newsgroups in his
Newsgroups header to cross-posted between them. But from the very
start, Bilsch01 only specified the Win11 newsgroup yet I found his
thread in the Win10 newsgroup.

Confusing how bilsch01's post got into the Win10 newsgroup when his
Newsgroups header specified only the Win11 newsgroup.

The Message-ID header is the same value, yet Bilsch01's post showed up
in the Win10 that he never specified in his Newsgroups header. Weird.
I can see the MID should be the same for a cross-posted article
(multiple newsgroups in the Newsgroups header), but somehow Bilsch01's
article showed up in the Win10 newsgroup that was never specified in his
Newsgroups header. Bisch01 didn't cross-post as there was only one
newsgroup in his Newsgroups header, so I thought he multi-posted. Then
I see his MID is the same in both newsgroups, and multi-posting would
use different MIDs.

Why would a submission that specified:

Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11

show up in the:

alt.comp.os.windows-10

newsgroup? I didn't look at this anomaly until Paul changed to
specifying 2 newsgroups in his Newsgroups header. Regardless of all the
replies, why would Bilsch01's starter post show up in the wrong group?

On 4/1/2024 7:56 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
>>
>>> Note: Paul cross-posted what was originally a multi-posted copy of the
>>> OP's thread, and without notification of the change the result of which
>>> creates a floater post. I restored the Newsgroups header to just this
>>> newsgroup in my reply.

The OP is *never* going to find all the materials
dumped in his name.

This thread did not start in the Win10 group.
It started in the Win11 group. It should have stayed
in the Win11 group. Why did Mr.Nuttle change it ???

Originally posted question:

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cuu7691%24fvrd%241%40dont-email.me%3E

The post that went into the weeds for some reason and switched groups.
And as a bonus, apparently was crafted in only HTML. I'm surprised
that didn't get chopped entirely, on the E-S server, and not allowed through.

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cuu79ap%24gi0r%241%40dont-email.me%3E

The answers belong in the Win11 group, where the OP can be
reasonably expected to find them.

Paul

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> > VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
> >
> >> Note: Paul cross-posted what was originally a multi-posted copy of the
> >> OP's thread, and without notification of the change the result of which
> >> creates a floater post. I restored the Newsgroups header to just this
> >> newsgroup in my reply.
> >
> > AFAICT, there's no "multi-posted copy of the OP's thread", but someone
> > posted a response to the OP in alt.comp.os.windows-11, but posted that
> > response (only) to this group (alt.comp.os.windows-10).
> >
> > Because 'someone' posted (only) in HTML, his post probably didn't make
> > it to many servers. So wrong group and wrong format.
> >
> > The OP (bilsch01) posted to alt.comp.os.windows-11 and (AFAICT) sofar
> > has not posted/responded to this group (alt.comp.os.windows-10).
>
> Bilsch01 starter post in Windows 10 newsgroup: <--.
> From: bilsch01 <usenet@writer.com> |-- mismatch
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11 <--'
> Message-ID: <uu7691$fvrd$1@dont-email.me> <---------------.
> |
> Bilsch01 starter post in Windows 11 newsgroup: <--. |-- same
> From: bilsch01 <usenet@writer.com> |-- match | MID
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11 <--' |
> Message-ID: <uu7691$fvrd$1@dont-email.me> <---------------'

I don't know why you see bilsch01's starter post in the Windows 10
newsgroup on your system.

As you say, it was posted (only) to alt.comp.os.windows-11. See
al.howardknight.net for confirmation:

<http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cuu7691%24fvrd%241%40dont-email.me%3E>

I only see it in alt.comp.os.windows-11.

> Why would his post show up in the Win10 newsgroup when his Newsgroups
> header never included it? The client specifies the Newsgroups header to
> tell the server where to point. Bilsch01 used ES, but even if ES
> somehow managed to screw up its overview database, it don't see how that
> would propagate to my individual.net provider who maintains their own
> separate overview database. NNTP servers don't share overview
> databases, and why the same article on different servers has different
> indexes on each server.

Don't worry about bilsch01's client, but try to find out why your
client shows it in a wrong group.

My client shows it in the correct group and you and I use the same
news server, so ...

> When wasbit *replied*, his Newsgroups header had just the Win10
> newsgroup. Paul added both the Win10 and Win11 newsgroups in his
> Newsgroups header to cross-posted between them. But from the very
> start, Bilsch01 only specified the Win11 newsgroup yet I found his
> thread in the Win10 newsgroup.

FTR, AFAICT wasbit was not the culprit who moved his response to
alt.comp.os.windows-10, but 'someone' before him.

But that does not really matter, because the move is just a mistake by
a human, nothing to do the starter post appearing in the Windows 10
group on *your* (and only your?) system.

[Rest left for completeness/reference.]

> Confusing how bilsch01's post got into the Win10 newsgroup when his
> Newsgroups header specified only the Win11 newsgroup.
>
> The Message-ID header is the same value, yet Bilsch01's post showed up
> in the Win10 that he never specified in his Newsgroups header. Weird.
> I can see the MID should be the same for a cross-posted article
> (multiple newsgroups in the Newsgroups header), but somehow Bilsch01's
> article showed up in the Win10 newsgroup that was never specified in his
> Newsgroups header. Bisch01 didn't cross-post as there was only one
> newsgroup in his Newsgroups header, so I thought he multi-posted. Then
> I see his MID is the same in both newsgroups, and multi-posting would
> use different MIDs.
>
> Why would a submission that specified:
>
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11
>
> show up in the:
>
> alt.comp.os.windows-10
>
> newsgroup? I didn't look at this anomaly until Paul changed to
> specifying 2 newsgroups in his Newsgroups header. Regardless of all the
> replies, why would Bilsch01's starter post show up in the wrong group?

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> As you say, it was posted (only) to alt.comp.os.windows-11. See
> al.howardknight.net for confirmation:
>
> <http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cuu7691%24fvrd%241%40dont-email.me%3E>

That also shows in Bilsch01's post has:

Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Yet we're discussing it in the Win10 newsgroup.

> Don't worry about bilsch01's client, but try to find out why your
> client shows it in a wrong group.

The only thing I can think of is that I saw the truncated thread
(bilsch01's post was missing, and the thread started with wasbit) when I
was in the Win10 newsgroup, but I used the client's Reconstruct Thread
to grab the missing article which copied/linked it from the Win11
newsgroup to this Win10 newsgroup. Just a guess since I don't recall
rebuilding the thread. But that still has wasbit replying to the Win10
newsgroup when bilsch01 and knuttle posted only to the Win11 newsgroup.

The more I think on it, I probably saw wasbit's "floater" reply in the
Win10 newsgroup, and had my client rebuild the thread. It did what I
told it to do: rebuild the thread to snag the missing leading post(s)
which happened to be in a different newsgroup.

> FTR, AFAICT wasbit was not the culprit who moved his response to
> alt.comp.os.windows-10, but 'someone' before him.

From wasbit's post, he shows:

References: <uu7691$fvrd$1@dont-email.me> <uu79ap$gi0r$1@dont-email.me>
|___________________________| |___________________________|
bilsch01's post knuttle's post

wasbit replied to knuttle, yet:

knuttle's post:
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11

wasbit's reply to knuttle:
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10

Looks to be wasbit that changed newsgroups, and I compounded the
confusion by rebuilding the incomplete thread to get the parent post(s)
(back in the Win11 newsgroup) for wasbit's post.

Thanks for the assist.