"This document makes reference to the terms "Linux" and "open source"
without hesitation. Our official position is that the phrase "GNU/Linux"
is only used by communists like Richard Stallman who contribute little
more than noise and friction to the open source community."

Citadel: a storied history
https://www.citadel.org/citadel_past_present_and_future.html

TLDR; Richard Stallman is a dishwatery pinko commie neanderthal.

On 2023-02-15, Citadel BBS History <citadel@bbs.history> wrote:
> "This document makes reference to the terms "Linux" and "open source"
> without hesitation. Our official position is that the phrase "GNU/Linux"
> is only used by communists like Richard Stallman who contribute little
> more than noise and friction to the open source community."
>
> Citadel: a storied history
> https://www.citadel.org/citadel_past_present_and_future.html
>
> TLDR; Richard Stallman is a dishwatery pinko commie neanderthal.
>

I would disagree. He is a non-group thinker.

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2/15/23 05:34, maus wrote:
> On 2023-02-15, Citadel BBS History <citadel@bbs.history> wrote:
>> "This document makes reference to the terms "Linux" and "open source"
>> without hesitation. Our official position is that the phrase "GNU/Linux"
>> is only used by communists like Richard Stallman who contribute little
>> more than noise and friction to the open source community."
>>
>> Citadel: a storied history
>> https://www.citadel.org/citadel_past_present_and_future.html
>>
>> TLDR; Richard Stallman is a dishwatery pinko commie neanderthal.
>>
>
> I would disagree. He is a non-group thinker.

He tells us what he thinks about. Richard Stallman Quotes:

"I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children.
The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't
voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the
idea that their little baby is maturing."

"There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that
willing participation in pedophilia hurts children. Granted, children
may not dare say no to an older relative, or may not realize they could
say no; in that case, even if they do not overtly object, the
relationship may still feel imposed to them. That's not willing
participation, it's imposed participation, a different issue."

"Prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child
pornography, and even incest and pedophilia ... should be legal as long
as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of prejudice and
narrowmindedness."

"I've read that male dolphins try to have sex with humans, and female
apes solicit sex from humans. What is wrong with giving them what they
want, if that's what turns you on, or even just to gratify them?"

"Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong about sex
between an adult and a child, if the child accepted it," Stallman wrote.
"Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to
understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically. This
changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do that. I
am grateful for the conversations that enabled me to understand why."

Oh So Gross! <oh@so.gross> wrote:

>
> "I've read that male dolphins try to have sex with humans, and female
> apes solicit sex from humans. What is wrong with giving them what they
> want, if that's what turns you on, or even just to gratify them?"
>

And this, children, is where mermaids come from.

Stallman has made real, significant contributions, including
re-invigorating the idea of open source for the post-unbundling era, but
he’s much too full of himself, and has failed to realize that things have
moved on.

--
Pete

On 2023-02-15, Citadel BBS History <citadel@bbs.history> wrote:
> "This document makes reference to the terms "Linux" and "open source"
> without hesitation. Our official position is that the phrase "GNU/Linux"
> is only used by communists like Richard Stallman who contribute little
> more than noise and friction to the open source community."

Loving the ad hominem and false dichotomy here. If you aren't with us,
you're against us.

On 2023-02-15, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Oh So Gross! <oh@so.gross> wrote:
>
>>
>> "I've read that male dolphins try to have sex with humans, and female
>> apes solicit sex from humans. What is wrong with giving them what they
>> want, if that's what turns you on, or even just to gratify them?"
>>
>
> And this, children, is where mermaids come from.
>
> Stallman has made real, significant contributions, including
> re-invigorating the idea of open source for the post-unbundling era, but
> he’s much too full of himself, and has failed to realize that things have
> moved on.
>

I believe that there are recordings of him singing!. I am a vim person myself.

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2/15/23 06:25, Citadel BBS History wrote:
> "This document makes reference to the terms "Linux" and "open source"
> without hesitation. Our official position is that the phrase "GNU/Linux"
> is only used by communists like Richard Stallman who contribute little
> more than noise and friction to the open source community."
>
​When you use the term "communist" against someone derogatorily, do you
use it with the literal definition term in mind, or do you use it as a
generic insult, regardless of its literal definition?
--
⚗︎ | /blu.mɛin.dʰak/ | shortens to "Hawk" | he/him/his/himself/Mr.
bluemanedhawk.github.io
Bitches stole my whole ass ␔🭖᷿᪳𝼗᷍⏧𒒫𐻾ࣛ↉�⃣ quoted-printable, can't
have shit in Thunderbird 😩

According to Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com>:
>> is only used by communists like Richard Stallman who contribute little
>> more than noise and friction to the open source community."
>
>​When you use the term "communist" against someone derogatorily, do you
>use it with the literal definition term in mind, or do you use it as a
>generic insult, regardless of its literal definition?

Stallman is the guy behind the Gnu Public License, which is intended
to force software to be freely sharable rather than sold so in that
sense I suppose you might argue that he's opposed to private property.
But as far as I know, that's just about software. As anyone familiar
with the history of computing knows, nobody even attempted to
copyright software until the mid 1960s, and the computer business did
just fine in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s.

So in this case I think it's "communist" in the sense of "poopyhead".
--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

On 16/02/2023 02:33, John Levine wrote:
> As anyone familiar
> with the history of computing knows, nobody even attempted to
> copyright software until the mid 1960s, and the computer business did
> just fine in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s.

Back in those days there was no portable software.

IAC software was just a way to help sell the hardware.

Andy

On 2023-02-16, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> According to Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com>:
>>> is only used by communists like Richard Stallman who contribute little
>>> more than noise and friction to the open source community."
>>
>>???When you use the term "communist" against someone derogatorily, do you
>>use it with the literal definition term in mind, or do you use it as a
>>generic insult, regardless of its literal definition?
>
> Stallman is the guy behind the Gnu Public License, which is intended
> to force software to be freely sharable rather than sold ...

Not quite. You can sell it. From the GPL 2, second paragraph ...

"When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not
price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you
have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for
this service if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it
if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it
in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things."

> .... so in that
> sense I suppose you might argue that he's opposed to private property.
> But as far as I know, that's just about software. As anyone familiar
> with the history of computing knows, nobody even attempted to
> copyright software until the mid 1960s, and the computer business did
> just fine in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s.
> So in this case I think it's "communist" in the sense of "poopyhead".

According to Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid>:
>On 16/02/2023 02:33, John Levine wrote:
>> As anyone familiar
>> with the history of computing knows, nobody even attempted to
>> copyright software until the mid 1960s, and the computer business did
>> just fine in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s.
>
>Back in those days there was no portable software.

Um, the entire point of COBOL was to be portable, and people were
certainly moving Fortran programs from one kind of machine to another
by 1960. You might want to brush up on your history.

Hint: the CO stands for COmmon.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

On 2023-02-15, Citadel BBS History <citadel@bbs.history> wrote:
> "This document makes reference to the terms "Linux" and "open source"
> without hesitation. Our official position is that the phrase "GNU/Linux"
> is only used by communists like Richard Stallman who contribute little
> more than noise and friction to the open source community."
>
> Citadel: a storied history
> https://www.citadel.org/citadel_past_present_and_future.html
>
> TLDR; Richard Stallman is a dishwatery pinko commie neanderthal.
>

Eh, GuixSD it's far more revolutionary than these old-fashioned dickheads.
And Emacs interface for the blind, Emacspeak, it's far ahead of everything.

On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 6:56:29 AM UTC-7, Oh So Gross! quoted, in part:

> "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children.

Even if there is some truth to that position in the _abstract_, in the
real world, this is a non-issue because legalizing this imaginary
unicorn of voluntary pedophilia would only make it harder to convict
those who are guilty of the _real_ serious problem of involuntary
pedophilia.

Presumably, the most charitable explanation of what has prompted
him to make a remark likely to get him tarred and feathered would be
an autism spectrum disorder.

John Savard

On 2023-02-16, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

> According to Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid>:
>
>> On 16/02/2023 02:33, John Levine wrote:
>>
>>> As anyone familiar
>>> with the history of computing knows, nobody even attempted to
>>> copyright software until the mid 1960s, and the computer business
>>> did just fine in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s.
>>
>> Back in those days there was no portable software.
>
> Um, the entire point of COBOL was to be portable, and people were
> certainly moving Fortran programs from one kind of machine to another
> by 1960. You might want to brush up on your history.
>
> Hint: the CO stands for COmmon.

Still, as with everything else, IBM did its best to add proprietary
extensions to lock people in. (Yes, that's one more "innovation"
that Microsoft didn't invent.) But if you were careful you could
write in a fairly portable dialect.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 16:57:13 -0800 (PST)
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 6:56:29 AM UTC-7, Oh So Gross! quoted,
> in part:
>
> > "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms
> > children.
>
> Even if there is some truth to that position in the _abstract_, in the
> real world, this is a non-issue because legalizing this imaginary
> unicorn of voluntary pedophilia would only make it harder to convict
> those who are guilty of the _real_ serious problem of involuntary
> pedophilia.

Quite so - and the equally (perhaps more) serious problem of
grooming which looks like voluntary until you see the persuasion.

> Presumably, the most charitable explanation of what has prompted
> him to make a remark likely to get him tarred and feathered would be
> an autism spectrum disorder.

Perhaps - or maybe he was thinking of the fairly common edge case
of the slightly underage horny teenager who doesn't care to wait for the
law. Depending on the legal age the window for that can be quite wide.

I recall trying to be that teenager from the age of 14, and I doubt
that success would have harmed me. As it was at 16 I was legal in the
jurisdiction I grew up in but in the one I currently live in my partner (a
few months older and just 17) could have been in trouble. In some
jurisdictions we would both still have been underage. As it is there's a
certain Meatloaf lyric that always triggers happy memories.

One teenage friend of mine at 16 went and snagged herself a 30 year
old boyfriend quite deliberately - I actually heard her say something
like "I fancy him" and watched her go off with seduction in mind to return
with him in tow, They lasted about six months. That was legal there and
then, in many places it would have been the unicorn you mention.

One of the more ridiculous legal errors in this area in some
jurisdictions is not providing an exception for the case when *both* parties
are underage or nearly so. There's a case where two 15 year olds got
themselves on the sex offenders register by being caught kissing!

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 4:23:02 AM UTC-7, Citadel BBS History wrote:
> "This document makes reference to the terms "Linux" and "open source"
> without hesitation. Our official position is that the phrase "GNU/Linux"
> is only used by communists like Richard Stallman who contribute little
> more than noise and friction to the open source community."
>
> Citadel: a storied history
> https://www.citadel.org/citadel_past_present_and_future.html
>
> TLDR; Richard Stallman is a dishwatery pinko commie neanderthal.

Well, I have good news for those who are anti-Communist!

https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/13/chimera_non_gnu_linux/

It hasn't reached beta yet, even, but a version of Linux is making progress
that is compiled with LLVM instead of GCC, and which uses stuff from
BSD in order to make itself completely GNU-free!

John Savard

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:

> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 6:56:29 AM UTC-7, Oh So Gross! quoted, in part:
>
>> "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children.
>
> Even if there is some truth to that position in the _abstract_, in the
> real world, this is a non-issue because legalizing this imaginary
> unicorn of voluntary pedophilia would only make it harder to convict
> those who are guilty of the _real_ serious problem of involuntary
> pedophilia.

Just so. We have an understanding that children aren't knowledgeable
enough to make life-altering decisions for themselves. Age thresholds
for drinking, driving, marriage, statutory rape, and consensual sexual
relations inter alia are justifiable but essentially arbitrary. The
current political mare's nest over whether a boy or girl can
legitimately consent to life-altering pharmaceuticals or other
treatment to become, respectively, a girl or boy has the same
intrinsic problem.

At what age can consent for a life-altering action be regarded as
legitimate?

There's a good movie -- I forget the title -- about a girl of perhaps
13 or 14 who arranges with a scumbag to have her father killed because
he won't let her get a tattoo. The desired small tattoo would likely
do her no harm. OTOH, the father was reasonable in his judgment that
she was too young to make such a decision, evinced by her immature
judgment that she could have him whacked.

> Presumably, the most charitable explanation of what has prompted
> him to make a remark likely to get him tarred and feathered would be
> an autism spectrum disorder.

Good inference.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

On 2023-02-17, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 6:56:29 AM UTC-7, Oh So Gross! quoted, in part:
>
>> "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children.
>
> Even if there is some truth to that position in the _abstract_, in the
> real world, this is a non-issue because legalizing this imaginary
> unicorn of voluntary pedophilia would only make it harder to convict
> those who are guilty of the _real_ serious problem of involuntary
> pedophilia.
>
> Presumably, the most charitable explanation of what has prompted
> him to make a remark likely to get him tarred and feathered would be
> an autism spectrum disorder.
>
> John Savard

he's a hard man to understand, but most people are.

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-02-17, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 4:23:02 AM UTC-7, Citadel BBS History wrote:
>> "This document makes reference to the terms "Linux" and "open source"
>> without hesitation. Our official position is that the phrase "GNU/Linux"
>> is only used by communists like Richard Stallman who contribute little
>> more than noise and friction to the open source community."
>>
>> Citadel: a storied history
>> https://www.citadel.org/citadel_past_present_and_future.html
>>
>> TLDR; Richard Stallman is a dishwatery pinko commie neanderthal.
>
> Well, I have good news for those who are anti-Communist!
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/13/chimera_non_gnu_linux/
>
> It hasn't reached beta yet, even, but a version of Linux is making progress
> that is compiled with LLVM instead of GCC, and which uses stuff from
> BSD in order to make itself completely GNU-free!

The Linux kernel is still licensed under the GNU GPLv2, though, so you
aren't completely getting away from the "communism". You'd better just
run a BSD.

https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v5.0/process/license-rules.html

Niklas
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

On 2023-02-17, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> Even if there is some truth to that position in the _abstract_, in the
> real world, this is a non-issue because legalizing this imaginary
> unicorn of voluntary pedophilia would only make it harder to convict
> those who are guilty of the _real_ serious problem of involuntary
> pedophilia.

I was told that legally speaking, pedophilia is attraction to
children. Adults who have this condition tend to be survivors of
child abuse. The attraction isn't illegal. Acting on it is.

I'd think that people who like to mince words and legalities would use
more nuance. Especially considering all the "Curb stomp your local
pedophile" bumper stickers and t-shirts i've been seeing.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this. There are
multiple non-GNU Linuxes available. I don't see what communism has to
do with this. (Also, i wouldn't consider building a software with GCC
to automatically make that software GNU software.)
--
⚗︎ | /blu.mɛin.dʰak/ | shortens to "Hawk" | he/him/his/himself/Mr.
bluemanedhawk.github.io
Bitches stole my whole ass ␔🭖᷿᪳𝼗᷍⏧𒒫𐻾ࣛ↉�⃣ quoted-printable, can't
have shit in Thunderbird 😩

On 2/17/23 03:39, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> The Linux kernel is still licensed under the GNU GPLv2, though, […]
I don't think it makes sense to consider something GNU software just
because it's licensed under a GNU-made license. Separate the art from
the artist and all that.
--
⚗︎ | /blu.mɛin.dʰak/ | shortens to "Hawk" | he/him/his/himself/Mr.
bluemanedhawk.github.io
Bitches stole my whole ass ␔🭖᷿᪳𝼗᷍⏧𒒫𐻾ࣛ↉�⃣ quoted-printable, can't
have shit in Thunderbird 😩

In article <tsifaj$2o79$1@news.cyber23.de>,
Citadel BBS History <citadel@bbs.history> wrote:
>[snip drivel]
> "Richard Stallman as Seen via the BBS Scene"?

I'm no Stallman fan, but... Who cares what the
"BBS Scene" thinks of him?

- Dan C.

On 2023-02-17, Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/17/23 03:39, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
>> The Linux kernel is still licensed under the GNU GPLv2, though, […]
>
> I don't think it makes sense to consider something GNU software just
> because it's licensed under a GNU-made license. Separate the art from
> the artist and all that.

Oh, it isn't GNU software. I didn't say it was.

But if you want away from GNU because it's "communist" then surely the
GPL is a core part of that? As opposed to the more moderate approach
taken by the BSD and MIT licenses, say. So I'd think you'd want to get
away from other GPLed software as well.

(I am not personally opposed to the GPL, but I could in a way understand
such a perspective.)

Niklas
--
"In my experience, the QA folks now how the system/application is supposed to
work. The programmers only know how the code is supposed to run."
-- Pygar

On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 2:49:16 AM UTC-7, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> As opposed to the more moderate approach
> taken by the BSD and MIT licenses, say.

Ah, yes, then the software is no longer a virus that could contaminate
commercial software, imperiling the integrity of its copyright and
its proprietary nature. Instead, it can be used with abandon, thus making
a constructive contribution to programs like Microsoft Windows.

John Savard