On 10/28/23 11:03 AM, Joerg Walther wrote:
> 56d.1152 wrote:
>
>> But, should I spend $$$ on a 4 when the 5s are
>> soon to hit the market ??? They're claiming
>> at least TWICE the performance (I guess at the
>> same power-consumption).
>
> Unfortunately, power consumption is much higher and you need a much
> stronger PSU. I'm not getting one since I do not need this kind of
> performance on a Pi.

They MAY be destroying their own 'niche'.

If 'PC' performance/power-consumption is
required I'll just buy a PC board.

I'll consider the 4 the pinnacle of Pi.
When they stop making them, I won't buy
any of their other stuff.

56d.1152 wrote:

> Joerg Walther wrote:
>
>> 56d.1152 wrote:
>>
>>> But, should I spend $$$ on a 4 when the 5s are soon to hit the
>>> market ??? They're claiming at least TWICE the performance (I
>>> guess at the same power-consumption).
>>
>> Unfortunately, power consumption is much higher and you need a
>> much stronger PSU. I'm not getting one since I do not need this
>> kind of performance on a Pi.
>
> They MAY be destroying their own 'niche'.

I think rPi4 jumped the shark in terms of cost and power ... moving from
the mindset of a handy SBC, to a small PC.

On 30/10/2023 05:51, 56d.1152 wrote:
> On 10/25/23 1:29 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 25/10/2023 17:13, Theo wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> https://thepihut.com/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b
>>>>
>>>> Coincidentally only a few miles away
>>>
>>> For the record, I understand that Pi5s can be bought over the counter
>>> at the
>>> Raspberry Pi store in Cambridge.  Limited to one per customer, but
>>> that rate
>>> limit may mean they can maintain stock.
>>>
>>> (yes I know you might be allergic to Cambridge :-)
>>>
>> By the time I have driven in or paid the park and ride fare, and
>> wasted a whole day, the cost of ordering online even if I have to wait
>> a few days is far far less in time, money, and sheer waste of life
>> that Cambridge represents these days.
>
>   Might do better with *walking* ......
>
All 25 miles?

>   Or just giving Cambridge the shaft entirely ...
>

Mostly, I do.

>   Sorry. but 'Woke' really should = BROKE.

Cambridge now lives in a bubble of progressive liberal ideologies that
are strangling it commercially: Everyone I know who doesn't tolerate
that shit, leaves.

--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 30/10/2023 06:06, 56d.1152 wrote:
> On 10/28/23 11:03 AM, Joerg Walther wrote:
>> 56d.1152 wrote:
>>
>>> But, should I spend $$$ on a 4 when the 5s are
>>>    soon to hit the market ??? They're claiming
>>>    at least TWICE the performance (I guess at the
>>>    same power-consumption).
>>
>> Unfortunately, power consumption is much higher and you need a much
>> stronger PSU. I'm not getting one since I do not need this kind of
>> performance on a Pi.
>
>   They MAY be destroying their own 'niche'.
>
>   If 'PC' performance/power-consumption is
>   required I'll just buy a PC board.

That shortly may feature an ARM processor, anyway.

>
>   I'll consider the 4 the pinnacle of Pi.
>   When they stop making them, I won't buy
>   any of their other stuff.
>

*shrug*, Too much ideology. If I can buy a PC equivalent mobo for under
$150 I dont care what processor it uses.
As long as it runs Linux

--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

On 30/10/2023 08:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Cambridge now lives in a bubble of progressive liberal ideologies that
> are strangling it commercially: Everyone I know who doesn't tolerate
> that shit, leaves.

Yes I loved Cambridge, but in the end had to leave, and I certainly
don't miss my commute from St Neots 20 miles away.

The easiest way was by car during the school holidays, 30 minutes in 40
minutes back, add another 15 minutes in term time. But that was before
the company moved offices to one without car parking, and the new
traffic restrictions in the centre. Using the park and Ride at
Maddeningly Road would add two bus journeys and over half an hour more
each way.

The best way was actually by train, as the office was on Station Road,
but I would have to drive to 20 miles south to the nearest train station
to get a reasonable fair, as the prices on the east coast mainline from
St Neots stations were ridiculous. Luckily Baldock station was on the
way to my wife's work so she was able to drop me off, until we had kids
and then that meant leaving too early to get them to nursery.

So I ended up for the last few nightmare years dropping the kids off at
nursery at 8am and getting the 8:06 bus from 50 yards down the road,
which should get in at 8:46 and a short walk to work. Only it never did,
9:30 if I was lucky, 10:30 a lot of the time, and another hour and a
quarter to get home in the evening. The main problem being cyclists in
the bus lane - no point in having a bus lane if the bus is continuously
having to have to pull out in to general traffic to go around cyclists.

---druck

On 28/10/2023 16:03, Joerg Walther wrote:
> 56d.1152 wrote:
>
>> But, should I spend $$$ on a 4 when the 5s are
>> soon to hit the market ??? They're claiming
>> at least TWICE the performance (I guess at the
>> same power-consumption).
>
> Unfortunately, power consumption is much higher and you need a much
> stronger PSU. I'm not getting one since I do not need this kind of
> performance on a Pi.

Don't confuse the power supply with power usage. The large supply is to
be able to deliver more power to the USB ports and the new PCIe port. If
you don't need that, you can use the Pi 4 supply.

---druck

On 02/11/2023 10:05, druck wrote:
> On 30/10/2023 08:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> > Cambridge now lives in a bubble of progressive liberal ideologies that
> > are strangling it commercially: Everyone I  know who doesn't tolerate
> > that shit, leaves.
>
> Yes I loved Cambridge, but in the end had to leave, and I certainly
> don't miss my commute from St Neots 20 miles away.
>
> The easiest way was by car during the school holidays, 30 minutes in 40
> minutes back, add another 15 minutes in term time. But that was before
> the company moved offices to one without car parking, and the new
> traffic restrictions in the centre. Using the park and Ride at
> Maddeningly Road would add two bus journeys and over half an hour more
> each way.
>
> The best way was actually by train, as the office was on Station Road,
> but I would have to drive to 20 miles south to the nearest train station
> to get a reasonable fair, as the prices on the east coast mainline from
> St Neots stations were ridiculous. Luckily Baldock station was on the
> way to my wife's work so she was able to drop me off, until we had kids
> and then that meant leaving too early to get them to nursery.
>
> So I ended up for the last few nightmare years dropping the kids off at
> nursery at 8am and getting the 8:06 bus from 50 yards down the road,
> which should get in at 8:46 and a short walk to work. Only it never did,
> 9:30 if I was lucky, 10:30 a lot of the time, and another hour and a
> quarter to get home in the evening. The main problem being cyclists in
> the bus lane - no point in having a bus lane if the bus is continuously
> having to have to pull out in to general traffic to go around cyclists.
>
> ---druck
>
>
Yup. Unless you live in Cambridge getting to work there is murder.
When I had a business in the business park. it was quicker to drive 22
miles to my house in Suffolk than to the train station.

They (the council) wanted a carless cyclist's paradise with no industry
and that is exactly what they are getting.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 02/11/2023 13:22, druck wrote:
> On 28/10/2023 16:03, Joerg Walther wrote:
>> 56d.1152 wrote:
>>
>>> But, should I spend $$$ on a 4 when the 5s are
>>>    soon to hit the market ??? They're claiming
>>>    at least TWICE the performance (I guess at the
>>>    same power-consumption).
>>
>> Unfortunately, power consumption is much higher and you need a much
>> stronger PSU. I'm not getting one since I do not need this kind of
>> performance on a Pi.
>
> Don't confuse the power supply with power usage. The large supply is to
> be able to deliver more power to the USB ports and the new PCIe port. If
> you don't need that, you can use the Pi 4 supply.
>
> ---druck
>
I figured that out - the USB ports are much beefier, and a Pi5 is my
fallback if I cant run all my USB drives on a pi 4...

--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 16:11:51 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> They (the council) wanted a carless cyclist's paradise with no industry
> and that is exactly what they are getting.

That's not the council that's the university - bear in mind that
the Guildhall is built on university land.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> They (the council) wanted a carless cyclist's paradise with no industry
> and that is exactly what they are getting.

To put a counter example, albeit not going to work, I today went into
Cambridge. I left home (Comberton) 13:15, drove 5 miles to Madingley P&R,
parked easily (170 spaces), and caught the 13:30 PR1 bus. Arrived Round
Church at 13:40. Did half a dozen bits of shopping (Cotswold, M&S, WH
Smith, Raspberry Pi, John Lewis) in next 30 mins. Caught the return P&R
waiting on St Andrews St. 15 minutes to P&R. 10 minutes home.

All fast, easy. Total in/out travel time less than 50 mins.

--
Paul at the paulhardy.net domain

On 02/11/2023 17:13, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 16:11:51 +0000
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> They (the council) wanted a carless cyclist's paradise with no industry
>> and that is exactly what they are getting.
>
> That's not the council that's the university - bear in mind that
> the Guildhall is built on university land.
>
I am afraid the University's purlieu does not extend to every
residential street in the town...

--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

On 02/11/2023 20:52, Paul Hardy wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> They (the council) wanted a carless cyclist's paradise with no industry
>> and that is exactly what they are getting.
>
> To put a counter example, albeit not going to work, I today went into
> Cambridge. I left home (Comberton) 13:15, drove 5 miles to Madingley P&R,
> parked easily (170 spaces), and caught the 13:30 PR1 bus. Arrived Round
> Church at 13:40. Did half a dozen bits of shopping (Cotswold, M&S, WH
> Smith, Raspberry Pi, John Lewis) in next 30 mins. Caught the return P&R
> waiting on St Andrews St. 15 minutes to P&R. 10 minutes home.
>
> All fast, easy. Total in/out travel time less than 50 mins.

That's during the day! Try coming in at 0800 and leaving at 1700.

---druck

On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 10:18:07 +0000
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:

> That's during the day! Try coming in at 0800 and leaving at 1700.

Jetpack to Marshalls and helicopter home nothing else will be quick
or even remotely direct.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 11/2/23 12:13 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 02/11/2023 13:22, druck wrote:
>> On 28/10/2023 16:03, Joerg Walther wrote:
>>> 56d.1152 wrote:
>>>
>>>> But, should I spend $$$ on a 4 when the 5s are
>>>>    soon to hit the market ??? They're claiming
>>>>    at least TWICE the performance (I guess at the
>>>>    same power-consumption).
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, power consumption is much higher and you need a much
>>> stronger PSU. I'm not getting one since I do not need this kind of
>>> performance on a Pi.
>>
>> Don't confuse the power supply with power usage. The large supply is
>> to be able to deliver more power to the USB ports and the new PCIe
>> port. If you don't need that, you can use the Pi 4 supply.
>>
>> ---druck
>>
> I figured that out - the USB ports are much beefier, and a Pi5 is my
> fallback if I cant run all my USB drives on a pi 4...

"All" ? :-)

I do have a Pi3 that has a 3tb magnetic USB drive
plugged in, all power from the port ... and it works
great, for years, even with the "tiny" Pi3 power supply.
Actually it runs off one of those phone-charger thingies
you buy at 7-11 .... I've just ignored the "low voltage"
warning for years :-)

It's nice if the P5 will be ABLE to push a lot of
power thru the USBs - potential is always good.
But for MOST uses .......

I've been more worried about whether the new & improved
processor is gonna suck a lot more power unto itself.

Still none on Amazon - but P4s can be had for about $65
again. Yea, still a big mark-up over the "official" price,
which I've never seen outside UK outlets. Still a BIG
disappointment - Vilnos and CanaKits bundles ... Pi + power +
case ... are still very high. Cheaper to buy the individual
components.

DID find a goodie however - the "SmartiCase"
which holds a P4 + 7" Official Touchscreen - and can
work without a power splitter. Two variants - the
'fat' case (which is what the instructions cover) and
the 'thin' case. DID have to snip just a little plastic
off the inside of the 'thin' case, otherwise the board
wouldn't go QUITE far enough over. But, strong and
stylish and has a few options. The 'fat' case has a
spot for the Pi cam while the 'thin' has an optional
hole for some other (very small) cam. Anyway, for
the 'thin' case, just reason out the assembly.

Oh, for minimal use, Amazon had a brand-x "ABS PLASTIC
CASE" for like $1.75 (plus $6 shipping from who the
hell knows where - claims to be a pacific island).
Put a Pi2b in there, perfect fit, 4 screws to secure
everything. A Pi2b with 'Motion' works quite well
as a webcam/MJPEG server. Bookworm/32 Lite does work
fine on a 2b ... and a 1b too so long as you don't
have an 'intensive' use in mind ........

On 10/30/23 4:34 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 30/10/2023 06:06, 56d.1152 wrote:
>> On 10/28/23 11:03 AM, Joerg Walther wrote:
>>> 56d.1152 wrote:
>>>
>>>> But, should I spend $$$ on a 4 when the 5s are
>>>>    soon to hit the market ??? They're claiming
>>>>    at least TWICE the performance (I guess at the
>>>>    same power-consumption).
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, power consumption is much higher and you need a much
>>> stronger PSU. I'm not getting one since I do not need this kind of
>>> performance on a Pi.
>>
>>    They MAY be destroying their own 'niche'.
>>
>>    If 'PC' performance/power-consumption is
>>    required I'll just buy a PC board.
>
> That shortly may feature an ARM processor, anyway.

There IS a funky ARM version of Win ....
but you'd better buy a LARGE SD card :-)

And then PAY Bill Gates .. over and over ...

>>    I'll consider the 4 the pinnacle of Pi.
>>    When they stop making them, I won't buy
>>    any of their other stuff.
>>
>
> *shrug*, Too much ideology.

Just enough PRACTICAL ..... :-)

> If I can buy a PC equivalent mobo for under
> $150 I dont care what processor it uses.
> As long as it runs Linux

I've seen sources for older laptop MoBos ...
many will run Linux fer-sure. When the screens
crack or KBs get balky, people DUMP the laptops.
However the core MBs are often still perfectly
good.

But they're a lot bigger than a PI, use a
lot more power too.

When on Amazon, I'll buy a Pi-5 for eval
purposes. We'll see ........

There are a lot of "Pi-Like" boards out there
as well. Alas the Orange/Bananna ones you can
easily find still have no WiFi on the board -
and I got HORRIBLE performance trying USB
WiFi dongles. For some apps, a BBB might still
be the better choice.

On 11/2/23 6:05 AM, druck wrote:
> On 30/10/2023 08:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> > Cambridge now lives in a bubble of progressive liberal ideologies that
> > are strangling it commercially: Everyone I  know who doesn't tolerate
> > that shit, leaves.
>
> Yes I loved Cambridge, but in the end had to leave, and I certainly
> don't miss my commute from St Neots 20 miles away.
>
> The easiest way was by car during the school holidays, 30 minutes in 40
> minutes back, add another 15 minutes in term time. But that was before
> the company moved offices to one without car parking, and the new
> traffic restrictions in the centre. Using the park and Ride at
> Maddeningly Road would add two bus journeys and over half an hour more
> each way.
>
> The best way was actually by train, as the office was on Station Road,
> but I would have to drive to 20 miles south to the nearest train station
> to get a reasonable fair, as the prices on the east coast mainline from
> St Neots stations were ridiculous. Luckily Baldock station was on the
> way to my wife's work so she was able to drop me off, until we had kids
> and then that meant leaving too early to get them to nursery.
>
> So I ended up for the last few nightmare years dropping the kids off at
> nursery at 8am and getting the 8:06 bus from 50 yards down the road,
> which should get in at 8:46 and a short walk to work. Only it never did,
> 9:30 if I was lucky, 10:30 a lot of the time, and another hour and a
> quarter to get home in the evening. The main problem being cyclists in
> the bus lane - no point in having a bus lane if the bus is continuously
> having to have to pull out in to general traffic to go around cyclists.

If you want sane CHANGES ... you HAVE to provide
ALTERNATIVE FACILITIES and suck-in a lot of the
top names from Cambridge/Oxford.

It'll also need FUNDING - from the old-school Old Money,
alumni and beyond.

Likely, if anybody looks closely enough, there's surely some
ed-expansion legislation buried in the books - where the
govt HAS to offer money/incentives/breaks (beware any COSTS
associated).

Oh, give the new schools decent Olde England city/place
names. It'll go a long way for psychological reasons.

In short, DRAIN the ultra-Wokie universities until they
either have to change, or vanish. A pity, yes, but ...

SAME issues now in the USA as well. Even many "liberals"
are advising the youth to NOT attend the "Ivy League"
universities because they just make kiddies into STUPID
hyper-lefty idiot-activists.

Again, ALTERNATIVES are the best answer. Not EASIEST,
but BEST. A new "Ivy League" ... dedicated to great
ed, not the latest political trends.

But we've kind of left the r-PI universe here ....

Found some more dox on the Pi5 today.

It CAN run on a regular Pi4/USB-C power supply.

UNLESS you need a lot more amperage.

THEN you need a "USB-C/PD" ... I suspect that
means "Power Detection" ... power supply. Seems
the Pi5 has special circuitry that can "talk"
to those kinds of supplies.

More complexity is usually NOT so good - and
usually COSTS you as well.

Anyway, if you HAVE to have three mag USB drives
and a coffee-warmer attached to yer Pi5 then you
will have to buy a 'PD' unit.

If Pi goes any further, well, may as well just
buy a NUC or related running Winders ..... saw
one today (some "Bee"-named things) with the
cheapest under $200 US and fair reviews.

Pi was successful because it fit into a *niche*
between microcontrollers and "real PCs" (and
was cheap/compact). If they slide out of that
niche though there's just no POINT to them.

In article (Dans l'article)
<_2qdnflafPktVdT4nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@earthlink.com>, 56d.1152
<56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote (écrivait) :

> you need a "USB-C/PD" ... I suspect that means "Power Detection" ...
> power supply

Power Delivery
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#USB_Power_Delivery>

--
Jean-Pierre Kuypers

On 11/7/23 5:41 AM, Jean-Pierre Kuypers wrote:
> In article (Dans l'article)
> <_2qdnflafPktVdT4nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@earthlink.com>, 56d.1152
> <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote (écrivait) :
>
>> you need a "USB-C/PD" ... I suspect that means "Power Detection" ...
>> power supply
>
> Power Delivery
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#USB_Power_Delivery>
>

Thanks.

In any event the Pi5 "talks" to it somehow when
it needs a big burst of amperage.

On 08/11/2023 04:08, 56d.1152 wrote:
> burst of amperage.

The word you want is current.

On 11/8/23 2:35 AM, mm0fmf wrote:
> On 08/11/2023 04:08, 56d.1152 wrote:
>> burst of amperage.
>
> The word you want is current.

Same thing. 'Amperage' is a volume of
electrons/charge-carriers per unit time
So is 'electrical current'.