I need this feature despite being told, high-handedly, by the Raspberry
Pi lot that I don't and that they don't support it. Most search results
are out of date as usual.

Manjaro (KDE) does it but it doesn't work in other ways. Cinnamon does
it but seems a bit OTT.

Another Dave
--
Change nospam to techie

On 27/10/2023 12:28, Another Dave wrote:
> I need this feature despite being told, high-handedly, by the Raspberry
> Pi lot that I don't and that they don't support it. Most search results
> are out of date as usual.
>
> Manjaro (KDE) does it but it doesn't work in other ways. Cinnamon does
> it but seems a bit OTT.
>
Install MATE and possibly Ubuntu instead of Debian

> Another Dave

--
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.”

Thomas Sowell

Another Dave <dmarsden@nospam.com> wrote:
> I need this feature despite being told, high-handedly, by the Raspberry
> Pi lot that I don't and that they don't support it. Most search results
> are out of date as usual.
>
> Manjaro (KDE) does it but it doesn't work in other ways. Cinnamon does
> it but seems a bit OTT.

Raspberry Pi OS is an OS distribution.
That distribution provides a desktop environment (DE).
By default RPiOS uses a DE called PIXEL based on customised LXDE.

If the default DE doesn't provide what you want, install another one.
If KDE is the thing you want, install that. Or find another DE.
Don't throw out the OS just because you want to change the window
dressing.

https://raspberrytips.com/upgrade-raspbian-lite-to-desktop/
which starts with RPiOS Lite, but you can also do it from full RPiOS by
skipping to step 4.

It is also possible to skip using a DE and do it 'by hand' by installing
a window manager directly (like i3 or FVWM), which gets you basic window
manipulation without also giving you a dock, system tray, file manager,
etc. I know FVWM supports multiple workspaces.

Theo

On 27/10/2023 7:05 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Install MATE and possibly Ubuntu instead of Debian
>
>
I've already installed Cinnamon and will stick with it. There are no
performance issues with it, those only start with the ginormous loads
all modern browsers place on systems. Only chromium seems to use
hardware acceleration on youtube.

Another Dave
--
Change nospam to techie

On 28/10/2023 10:14 am, Theo wrote:
> Another Dave <dmarsden@nospam.com> wrote:
>> I need this feature despite being told, high-handedly, by the Raspberry
>> Pi lot that I don't and that they don't support it. Most search results
>> are out of date as usual.
>>
>> Manjaro (KDE) does it but it doesn't work in other ways. Cinnamon does
>> it but seems a bit OTT.
>
> Raspberry Pi OS is an OS distribution.
> That distribution provides a desktop environment (DE).
> By default RPiOS uses a DE called PIXEL based on customised LXDE.
>
> If the default DE doesn't provide what you want, install another one.
> If KDE is the thing you want, install that. Or find another DE.
> Don't throw out the OS just because you want to change the window
> dressing.
>
> https://raspberrytips.com/upgrade-raspbian-lite-to-desktop/
> which starts with RPiOS Lite, but you can also do it from full RPiOS by
> skipping to step 4.
>
> It is also possible to skip using a DE and do it 'by hand' by installing
> a window manager directly (like i3 or FVWM), which gets you basic window
> manipulation without also giving you a dock, system tray, file manager,
> etc. I know FVWM supports multiple workspaces.
>
> Theo
Yes yes, I know all that. I just wanted to use a desk top optimised for
the pi. ALL desktops have the ability to use multiple workspaces except
Pixel. It was removed from Pixel specifically because somebody at
Raspberry Pi couldn't be bothered to fix a bug in it.

Another Dave
--
Change nospam to techie

On 10/28/23 6:44 AM, Another Dave wrote:
> On 28/10/2023 10:14 am, Theo wrote:
>> Another Dave <dmarsden@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> I need this feature despite being told, high-handedly, by the Raspberry
>>> Pi lot that I don't and that they don't support it. Most search results
>>> are out of date as usual.
>>>
>>> Manjaro (KDE) does it but it doesn't work in other ways. Cinnamon does
>>> it but seems a bit OTT.
>>
>> Raspberry Pi OS is an OS distribution.
>> That distribution provides a desktop environment (DE).
>> By default RPiOS uses a DE called PIXEL based on customised LXDE.
>>
>> If the default DE doesn't provide what you want, install another one.
>> If KDE is the thing you want, install that.  Or find another DE.
>> Don't throw out the OS just because you want to change the window
>> dressing.
>>
>> https://raspberrytips.com/upgrade-raspbian-lite-to-desktop/
>> which starts with RPiOS Lite, but you can also do it from full RPiOS by
>> skipping to step 4.
>>
>> It is also possible to skip using a DE and do it 'by hand' by installing
>> a window manager directly (like i3 or FVWM), which gets you basic window
>> manipulation without also giving you a dock, system tray, file manager,
>> etc.  I know FVWM supports multiple workspaces.
>>
>> Theo
> Yes yes, I know all that. I just wanted to use a desk top optimised for
> the pi. ALL desktops have the ability to use multiple workspaces except
> Pixel. It was removed from Pixel specifically because somebody at
> Raspberry Pi couldn't be bothered to fix a bug in it.
>

I've installed Raspian/Bookworm on FOUR boards in the
past couple weeks. Yep, it does all the usual. ONE
very annoying aspect with Bookworm though is the
pointless demise of dhcpcd.conf and WPA_Supplicant.conf
in favor of "network manager'. If you use the 'lite'
version, no GUI, this becomes a PROBLEM if you want
to do static IPs. For the GUI versions just install
the Gnome network manager GUI thingie and use that
to set everything.

DID discover network manager stores
the configs in /etc/NetworkManager/session-something
in readable/tweakable files. For a 'lite' OS though
you should use nmcli to 'add' an interface (pain
enough) and then use nano to fine-tweak the config
file. Fortunately I had some made WITH the GUI as
patterns for the non-GUI units.

Remember /etc/networking ? THAT worked JUST FINE and
you could tweak to your heart's content. NO REASON for
Deb to deviate and make it all infinitely more difficult.
Who sells something far closer to Old Deb ??? I'll
check MX, maybe Devuian, but it has to run on a Pi.
(mx will, but unsure about the networking without a GUI)

DID run into one very WEIRD issue with Bookworm -
can't get /home/pi/.config/lxsession/LXDE-pi/autostart
to work properly on a Pi4. Works fine on a Pi3 though.
Tried one made ON a Pi3, moved to a Pi4, and another
completely installed on a Pi4. Alas I have something
that badly NEEDS the local autoexec so it'll have
a real 'screen' to put graphic output on (a python pgm).

Even putting the attempted startup into .profile or
.bashrc ain't doing it. Tried a bash script that starts
the py script - again no-go. I'll try adding a sleep
in there somewhere tomorrow ....... as said, just a
very very WEIRD diff between Pi models. Worst case, I'll
try last-years Raspbian.

In article <NbednWsKQtdaXNj4nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
56d.1152 <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:

> I've installed Raspian/Bookworm on FOUR boards in the
> past couple weeks. Yep, it does all the usual. ONE
> very annoying aspect with Bookworm though is the
> pointless demise of dhcpcd.conf and WPA_Supplicant.conf
> in favor of "network manager'. If you use the 'lite'
> version, no GUI, this becomes a PROBLEM if you want
> to do static IPs. For the GUI versions just install
> the Gnome network manager GUI thingie and use that
> to set everything.

I didn't know there was a problem until I read this but you're right
there is. I have managed a static IP on an ethernet connection by
creating a file
/etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 which contains:

allow-hotplug eth0
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.1.3
network 192.168.1.0
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.1.1

I *presume* it would be similar for a Wi-Fi connection but that the
file name would not be eth0 but whatever the Wi-fi interface is
called. I don't know what that is at the moment.

So I tried to get a Wi-Fi dongle to work using the usual the old
method, copying a file wpa_supplicant.conf to the boot partition of
the sd card before it is transferred to the pi. This worked great
with bullseye but fails with bookworm.

I've done some googling and found something I thought was the answer,
I had to create a file at /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf and then run it
with: wpa_supplicant -iwlan0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -d

With only two steps I half expected it to work but of course it gave
me miles of text and failed to work.

Has anyone discovered how to make a Wi-Fi dongle work with bookworm
lite? If so, could you enlighten me please.

Thanks.

Bob.

On 2023-11-04, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> I didn't know there was a problem until I read this but you're right
> there is. I have managed a static IP on an ethernet connection by
> creating a file
> /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 which contains:

That should[1] still work (maybe after installing the ifupdown package).
Install "resolvconf" if you want to specify DNS in /etc/network/interfaces,
too.

> Has anyone discovered how to make a Wi-Fi dongle work with bookworm
> lite? If so, could you enlighten me please.

Have a look at

https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse

under "manual", "Using ifupdown and wpasupplicant" - you can specify
everything you usually need in /etc/network/interfaces, no need to manually
create separate config files.

cu
Michael

[1] I regularly run embedded debian systems, but I have not cross-checked
this on a raspberry.
--
Some people have no respect of age unless it is bottled.

On 11/4/23 7:04 AM, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <NbednWsKQtdaXNj4nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> 56d.1152 <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:
>
>> I've installed Raspian/Bookworm on FOUR boards in the
>> past couple weeks. Yep, it does all the usual. ONE
>> very annoying aspect with Bookworm though is the
>> pointless demise of dhcpcd.conf and WPA_Supplicant.conf
>> in favor of "network manager'. If you use the 'lite'
>> version, no GUI, this becomes a PROBLEM if you want
>> to do static IPs. For the GUI versions just install
>> the Gnome network manager GUI thingie and use that
>> to set everything.
>
> I didn't know there was a problem until I read this but you're right
> there is. I have managed a static IP on an ethernet connection by
> creating a file
> /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 which contains:
>
> allow-hotplug eth0
> iface eth0 inet static
> address 192.168.1.3
> network 192.168.1.0
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> gateway 192.168.1.1
>
> I *presume* it would be similar for a Wi-Fi connection but that the
> file name would not be eth0 but whatever the Wi-fi interface is
> called. I don't know what that is at the moment.
>
> So I tried to get a Wi-Fi dongle to work using the usual the old
> method, copying a file wpa_supplicant.conf to the boot partition of
> the sd card before it is transferred to the pi. This worked great
> with bullseye but fails with bookworm.
>
> I've done some googling and found something I thought was the answer,
> I had to create a file at /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf and then run it
> with: wpa_supplicant -iwlan0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -d
>
> With only two steps I half expected it to work but of course it gave
> me miles of text and failed to work.
>
> Has anyone discovered how to make a Wi-Fi dongle work with bookworm
> lite? If so, could you enlighten me please.

Nothing beats a static IP. DHCP can, and eventually WILL,
move stuff around - and then you get weird annoying failures.

Modern Deb-derivatives have completely abandoned /etc/networking.
I guess it worked too well, was too-well documented. You actually
have do do some DAMAGE to force /etc/networking to take control.

Raspbian used /etc/dhcpcd.conf for quite awhile. Bookworm
broke that - again for NO sane reason.

With Bookworm it's all hidden away in /etc/NetworkManager/
system-connections. Alas if you NEVER had a GUI then it's
all DHCP from SOME yet-unknown source. Fortunately I'd
made some with and without GUI ... and the ones WITH GUI
provided the necessary pattern. You need to use "nmcli add con"
to create the skeleton of a new networking device ... can be
the wired or wireless. Then you EDIT it and insert the
needed names and numbers. This works.

And it's also VERY VERY unnecessarily complex/obscure.

Raspbian IS the best-tuned to PIs. However these unneeded
and vexing changes are getting to be TOO MUCH. There are
now a number of Lini that can run pretty well on PIs -
including MX and Arch-derivs. I'm really gonna look into
the Arch branch ... not that I love Arch, but there are
just SOME things that should be convenient, comprehensible
and consistent for people who do PRACTICAL stuff.

I'll provide a skeleton for a /system-connections template
on Monday ... there ARE a very few example on the web, but
VERY few and hard to find. They look nothing like anything
from before.

On 11/4/23 3:02 PM, Michael Schwingen wrote:
> On 2023-11-04, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
>> I didn't know there was a problem until I read this but you're right
>> there is. I have managed a static IP on an ethernet connection by
>> creating a file
>> /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 which contains:
>
> That should[1] still work (maybe after installing the ifupdown package).
> Install "resolvconf" if you want to specify DNS in /etc/network/interfaces,
> too.

And how much other stuff ???

/etc/networking worked JUST FINE and is hugely documented

There was NO reason to change.

So, basically, you now have to BREAK Deb to get it to work
like it used to. Cannonical led the way toward STUPID changes
and now Deb seems to have even exceeded THEM.

I'm gonna look into Arch ......

>> Has anyone discovered how to make a Wi-Fi dongle work with bookworm
>> lite? If so, could you enlighten me please.
>
> Have a look at
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse
>
> under "manual", "Using ifupdown and wpasupplicant" - you can specify
> everything you usually need in /etc/network/interfaces, no need to manually
> create separate config files.

Um ... TRY that. Neither /etc/network or WPA_supplicant
or dhcpcd.conf are used any more by any sort of default/
fallback.

For a GUI-less Bookworm you have to fool with the very
horrible 'nmcli' and then manually EDIT the net def
templates it creates way down in /etc/NetworkManager/
system-<something>

Bookworm is just HORRIBLE in this respect on a Pi.

Gonna check into Arch - seriously check into it. IF IT
WORKS *DON'T BREAK IT*

On 2023-11-05, 56d.1152 <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:
>
> Nothing beats a static IP. DHCP can, and eventually WILL,
> move stuff around - and then you get weird annoying failures.

Actually does not have to be true.

It is possible to run a dhcp server that hands out a fixed IP address
for a specific MAC. Many home routers allow this feature too. I run my
own DHCP server exactly to have full control over this and many other
features.

Not defending Debian here at all :-) Though I do use debain derived OSes
- but much reconfigured.

In article <OBGdncacO82Jvtr4nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
56d.1152 <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:

> I'll provide a skeleton for a /system-connections template
> on Monday ... there ARE a very few example on the web, but
> VERY few and hard to find. They look nothing like anything
> from before.

If I understand you correctly, I'm looking forward to that.

Thanks.

Bob.

In article <slrnukd5ac.c0ep.news-1513678000@a-tuin.ms.intern>,
Michael Schwingen <news-1513678000@discworld.dascon.de> wrote:
> On 2023-11-04, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> > I didn't know there was a problem until I read this but you're right
> > there is. I have managed a static IP on an ethernet connection by
> > creating a file
> > /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 which contains:

> That should[1] still work (maybe after installing the ifupdown
> package). Install "resolvconf" if you want to specify DNS in
> /etc/network/interfaces, too.

> > Has anyone discovered how to make a Wi-Fi dongle work with
> > bookworm lite? If so, could you enlighten me please.

> Have a look at

> https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse

> under "manual", "Using ifupdown and wpasupplicant" - you can
> specify everything you usually need in /etc/network/interfaces, no
> need to manually create separate config files.

I'm reading that now and trying to understand it. Not heard that
penny drop yet. :-)

Thanks for that.

Bob.

On Sun, 5 Nov 2023 10:40:28 -0000 (UTC)
Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> wrote:

> It is possible to run a dhcp server that hands out a fixed IP address
> for a specific MAC.

Which can be a pain when you upgrade a box or want to hand a fixed
IP to something like a phone that randomly changes MAC address to prevent
IPv6 auto allocation being used for tracking.

Many DHCP servers can also allocate a static IP based on hostname
which is really handy especially with DNS/DHCP integrated as in dnsmasq.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

56d.1152 <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:
> On 11/4/23 3:02 PM, Michael Schwingen wrote:
> > On 2023-11-04, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> >> I didn't know there was a problem until I read this but you're right
> >> there is. I have managed a static IP on an ethernet connection by
> >> creating a file
> >> /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 which contains:
> >
> > That should[1] still work (maybe after installing the ifupdown package).
> > Install "resolvconf" if you want to specify DNS in /etc/network/interfaces,
> > too.
>
> And how much other stuff ???
>
> /etc/networking worked JUST FINE and is hugely documented
>
> There was NO reason to change.
> So, basically, you now have to BREAK Deb to get it to work
> like it used to. Cannonical led the way toward STUPID changes
> and now Deb seems to have even exceeded THEM.

Supposedly it was because ifupdown depends on dhclient, which is now
abandonware. Hence they needed to replace that part of the stack, either
with NetworkManager or systemd-networkd:

https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/rhd1e4/future_of_network_configuration_in_debian/

> I'm gonna look into Arch ......

Seems like Arch uses the same tools, with systemd-networkd by default:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_configuration

Theo

On 05/11/2023 11:05, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <OBGdncacO82Jvtr4nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> 56d.1152 <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:
>
>> I'll provide a skeleton for a /system-connections template
>> on Monday ... there ARE a very few example on the web, but
>> VERY few and hard to find. They look nothing like anything
>> from before.
>
> If I understand you correctly, I'm looking forward to that.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob.
>

For my Pi Zero W running bookworm.

I did an in-place upgrade from bullseye to bookworm and then a later
upgrade broke the networking. See the thread "Arrgh!! systemd strikes
again!"

Using a separate Linux system to access the Pi's SDcard I added the
following files

/etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf

In my case the content is

/etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
allow-hotplug wlan0
iface wlan0 inet dhcp
wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf

/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev
update_config=1
country=GB

network={
ssid="MyHomeWifiName"
psk="XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"
}

My router is setup to allocate a set of fixed IP addrs based on MAC
address for some devices that use DHCP. The rest have fixed IP addrs anyway.

In article <ui8b6h$1k37$1@dont-email.me>,
mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:

> Using a separate Linux system to access the Pi's SDcard I added the
> following files

> /etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf

> In my case the content is

> /etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
> allow-hotplug wlan0
> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
> wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf

> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
> ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev
> update_config=1
> country=GB

> network={
> ssid="MyHomeWifiName"
> psk="XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"
> }

Fantastic !! It works !! Well done - thank you.

On a raspberry pi 2 with no built in wi-fi I tried a couple of
different dongles but they both worked

> My router is setup to allocate a set of fixed IP addrs based on MAC
> address for some devices that use DHCP. The rest have fixed IP
> addrs anyway.

Yes, same here.

Thanks again.

Bob.

On 05/11/2023 16:31, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <ui8b6h$1k37$1@dont-email.me>,
> mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> Using a separate Linux system to access the Pi's SDcard I added the
>> following files
>
>> /etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
>> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
>
>
>> In my case the content is
>
>> /etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
>> allow-hotplug wlan0
>> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
>> wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
>
>
>> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
>> ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev
>> update_config=1
>> country=GB
>
>> network={
>> ssid="MyHomeWifiName"
>> psk="XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"
>> }
>
> Fantastic !! It works !! Well done - thank you.
>
> On a raspberry pi 2 with no built in wi-fi I tried a couple of
> different dongles but they both worked
>
>> My router is setup to allocate a set of fixed IP addrs based on MAC
>> address for some devices that use DHCP. The rest have fixed IP
>> addrs anyway.
>
> Yes, same here.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Bob.
>

Glad to be of help. I found stuff about this online so it's not my own
hard work here just the distillation of someone else's efforts.

On 11/5/23 9:50 AM, Theo wrote:
> 56d.1152 <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:
>> On 11/4/23 3:02 PM, Michael Schwingen wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-04, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
>>>> I didn't know there was a problem until I read this but you're right
>>>> there is. I have managed a static IP on an ethernet connection by
>>>> creating a file
>>>> /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 which contains:
>>>
>>> That should[1] still work (maybe after installing the ifupdown package).
>>> Install "resolvconf" if you want to specify DNS in /etc/network/interfaces,
>>> too.
>>
>> And how much other stuff ???
>>
>> /etc/networking worked JUST FINE and is hugely documented
>>
>> There was NO reason to change.
>> So, basically, you now have to BREAK Deb to get it to work
>> like it used to. Cannonical led the way toward STUPID changes
>> and now Deb seems to have even exceeded THEM.
>
> Supposedly it was because ifupdown depends on dhclient, which is now
> abandonware. Hence they needed to replace that part of the stack, either
> with NetworkManager or systemd-networkd:

And NOBODY else in the LiniVerse could maintain/tweak/replace
dhclient ??? This exposes a PROBLEM.

> https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/rhd1e4/future_of_network_configuration_in_debian/
>
>> I'm gonna look into Arch ......
>
> Seems like Arch uses the same tools, with systemd-networkd by default:
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_configuration

May have to just stick with BullsEye for quite awhile then ...

Depending, there ARE ways to manage any security risks even
after updates get thin.

I've HAD it with stupid pointless changes in What Works.
Sounds like, horrors, MICROSOFT !

As is now, EVERY update might now totally BREAK your
hard-won applications. This is NOT acceptable.

ANYway, I'll post templates for nm entries tomorrow,
one for wired, another for wireless. Get 'em going
with an easy nmcli and then tweak to taste with nano.

Hmm ... I can already visualize an EASY TO USE
replacement for common nmcli uses on a Pi ...
I'll do it in Python (no, not bash with it's
obscure syntax I have to look up EVERY time) and
post it somewhere findable. Fill-in-the-blanks is
the simplest approach along with a 'ladder' structure
so you can key 'next' or 'go back'. Oh sure, you
can install Gnome or something, use the GUI nm app
(gotta run it as root) and then try to UN-install all
that junk ... until you need to repeat .....

There ARE Pi-runnable versions of FreeBSD and
even Plan-9 these days. I'm betting they're
less volatile. I've run OpenSuse on a Pi
(though it's 'heavy') but I'll have to check
if RHEL and/or Fedora keep breaking What Works
first.

On 11/5/23 2:25 PM, mm0fmf wrote:
> On 05/11/2023 16:31, Bob Latham wrote:
>> In article <ui8b6h$1k37$1@dont-email.me>,
>>     mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Using a separate Linux system to access the Pi's SDcard I added the
>>> following files
>>
>>> /etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
>>> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
>>
>>
>>> In my case the content is
>>
>>> /etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
>>> allow-hotplug wlan0
>>> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
>>>     wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
>>
>>
>>> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
>>> ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev
>>> update_config=1
>>> country=GB
>>
>>> network={
>>>           ssid="MyHomeWifiName"
>>>           psk="XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"
>>> }
>>
>> Fantastic !! It works !! Well done - thank you.
>>
>> On a raspberry pi 2 with no built in wi-fi I tried a couple of
>> different dongles but they both worked
>>
>>> My router is setup to allocate a set of fixed IP addrs based on MAC
>>> address for some devices that use DHCP. The rest have fixed IP
>>> addrs anyway.
>>
>> Yes, same here.
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> Bob.
>>
>
>
> Glad to be of help. I found stuff about this online so it's not my own
> hard work here just the distillation of someone else's efforts.

Did that work on BOOKWORM ???

On Sun, 5 Nov 2023 23:15:08 -0500
"56d.1152" <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:

> On 11/5/23 9:50 AM, Theo wrote:

> > Supposedly it was because ifupdown depends on dhclient, which is now
> > abandonware. Hence they needed to replace that part of the stack, either
> > with NetworkManager or systemd-networkd:
>
>
> And NOBODY else in the LiniVerse could maintain/tweak/replace
> dhclient ??? This exposes a PROBLEM.

Strange that - dhclient is still part of the base system in FreeBSD.

> I've HAD it with stupid pointless changes in What Works.
> Sounds like, horrors, MICROSOFT !

Look into the BSDs - they're not Linux and they don't follow
fashion.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

In article <FcGcnQ_s4rd39dX4nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
56d.1152 <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:
> On 11/5/23 2:25 PM, mm0fmf wrote:
> > On 05/11/2023 16:31, Bob Latham wrote:
> >> In article <ui8b6h$1k37$1@dont-email.me>,
> >> mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:

> >>> I added the following files

> >>> /etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
> >>> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
> >>
> >>
> >>> In my case the content is
> >>
> >>> /etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
> >>> allow-hotplug wlan0
> >>> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
> >>> wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
> >>
> >>
> >>> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
> >>> ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev
> >>> update_config=1
> >>> country=GB
> >>
> >>> network={
> >>> ssid="MyHomeWifiName"
> >>> psk="XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"
> >>> }
> >>
> >> Fantastic !! It works !! Well done - thank you.

> Did that work on BOOKWORM ???

Yes it does!

However, one word of caution. There is a strong tendency for the OS
to overwrite the file /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf with
zeros. I've seen this with bullseye too. I suspect it is some weird
security measure to try to stop tinkering.

The solution with bullseye is to copy that file not to
/etc/wpa_supplicant but whilst the SD card is still in the PC copy it
to the boot partition. The Pi then copies this into the correct place
at boot up and marks it as valid in some way to prevent overwrite.
I've not tried this yet on bookworm, that's up next...

Bob.

On 06/11/2023 08:24, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <FcGcnQ_s4rd39dX4nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> 56d.1152 <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:
>> On 11/5/23 2:25 PM, mm0fmf wrote:
>>> On 05/11/2023 16:31, Bob Latham wrote:
>>>> In article <ui8b6h$1k37$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> I added the following files
>
>>>>> /etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
>>>>> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In my case the content is
>>>>
>>>>> /etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
>>>>> allow-hotplug wlan0
>>>>> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
>>>>> wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
>>>>> ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev
>>>>> update_config=1
>>>>> country=GB
>>>>
>>>>> network={
>>>>> ssid="MyHomeWifiName"
>>>>> psk="XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"
>>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> Fantastic !! It works !! Well done - thank you.
>
>
>> Did that work on BOOKWORM ???
>
> Yes it does!
>
> However, one word of caution. There is a strong tendency for the OS
> to overwrite the file /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf with
> zeros. I've seen this with bullseye too. I suspect it is some weird
> security measure to try to stop tinkering.
>
> The solution with bullseye is to copy that file not to
> /etc/wpa_supplicant but whilst the SD card is still in the PC copy it
> to the boot partition. The Pi then copies this into the correct place
> at boot up and marks it as valid in some way to prevent overwrite.
> I've not tried this yet on bookworm, that's up next...
>
> Bob.
>

Not happening here but I do note that nmcli says wlan0 is unmanaged.

On 06/11/2023 08:47, mm0fmf wrote:
> On 06/11/2023 08:24, Bob Latham wrote:
>> In article <FcGcnQ_s4rd39dX4nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>>     56d.1152 <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:
>>> On 11/5/23 2:25 PM, mm0fmf wrote:
>>>> On 05/11/2023 16:31, Bob Latham wrote:
>>>>> In article <ui8b6h$1k37$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>      mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> I added the following files
>>
>>>>>> /etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
>>>>>> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> In my case the content is
>>>>>
>>>>>> /etc/network/interfaces.d/wlan0
>>>>>> allow-hotplug wlan0
>>>>>> iface wlan0 inet dhcp
>>>>>>      wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
>>>>>> ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev
>>>>>> update_config=1
>>>>>> country=GB
>>>>>
>>>>>> network={
>>>>>>            ssid="MyHomeWifiName"
>>>>>>            psk="XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"
>>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> Fantastic !! It works !! Well done - thank you.
>>
>>
>>>     Did that work on BOOKWORM ???
>>
>> Yes it does!
>>
>> However, one word of caution. There is a strong tendency for the OS
>> to overwrite the file /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf with
>> zeros. I've seen this with bullseye too. I suspect it is some weird
>> security measure to try to stop tinkering.
>>
>> The solution with bullseye is to copy that file not to
>> /etc/wpa_supplicant but whilst the SD card is still in the PC copy it
>> to the boot partition. The Pi then copies this into the correct place
>> at boot up and marks it as valid in some way to prevent overwrite.
>> I've not tried this yet on bookworm, that's up next...
>>
>> Bob.
>>
>
> Not happening here but I do note that nmcli says wlan0 is unmanaged.

Oh dear, replying to myself....

As it's unmanaged by NetworkManagaer, then it's being left alone. That's
just fine for what this PiZeroW is used for. I have another PiZeroW with
the same release of software that I'll play with and will add wlan0 to
NetworkManager's grasp so I can see what it does (if anything).

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
> 56d.1152 <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:
>> So, basically, you now have to BREAK Deb to get it to work like it
>> used to. Cannonical led the way toward STUPID changes and now Deb
>> seems to have even exceeded THEM.
>
> Supposedly it was because ifupdown depends on dhclient, which is now
> abandonware. Hence they needed to replace that part of the stack, either
> with NetworkManager or systemd-networkd:

ifupdown still exists in bookworm. There is no need to break anything
to use it.

isc-dhcp-client does seems to be abandonware, but ifupdown supports at
least two other DHCP clients.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/