Back in May, when searching for a POP3 email provider, it was suggested
I use sdf.org with the VPM [Mail Service] option.

I investigated and found its descriptions online seemed to match my
needs and preferences. I joined. Email via mutt works.

BUT I find SeaMonkey much more comfortable.
There are multiple articles at wiki.sdf.org on their email setup.

Although there is not one about using SeaMonkey, that is not my sticking
point.

There is a function called "mkvpm" which is part of their security
protocol. I can't find its documentation.

Where is the appropriate man-page or tutorial?
TIA

On 22/07/2023 14:16, Richard Owlett wrote:
> Back in May, when searching for a POP3 email provider, it was suggested
> I use sdf.org with the VPM [Mail Service] option.
>
> ...
>
> There is a function called "mkvpm" which is part of their security
> protocol. I can't find its documentation.
>
> Where is the appropriate man-page or tutorial?

From <https://sdf.org/?tutorials/smtpauth> this is a command that you
run in your shell account (SSH into a POSIX command line according to
the home page)

mkvpm set secret

where 'secret' is what you've chosen as your SMTP password. Otherwise,
what happens with either of these commands entered in the shell?
* man mkvpm
* mkvpm --help

--
London
UK

On 07/22/2023 09:30 AM, Dirk Fieldhouse wrote:
> On 22/07/2023 14:16, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> Back in May, when searching for a POP3 email provider, it was suggested
>> I use sdf.org with the VPM [Mail Service] option.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> There is a function called "mkvpm" which is part of their security
>> protocol. I can't find its documentation.
>>
>> Where is the appropriate man-page or tutorial?
>
> From <https://sdf.org/?tutorials/smtpauth> this is a command that you
> run in your shell account (SSH into a POSIX command line according to
> the home page)

All that URL really tells me is that the command exists and not to chose
an unsuitable password.

>
> mkvpm set secret
>
> where 'secret' is what you've chosen as your SMTP password. Otherwise,
> what happens with either of these commands entered in the shell?
> * man mkvpm
> * mkvpm --help

The result I get is:

> $ man mkvpm
> man: no entry for mkvpm in the manual.
> $ mkvpm --help
>
> mkvpm - Allows you to add/mod/del 'virtual pop3 mailboxes' for your
> VHOST domain. By default ANYTHING@domain.com will go to rowlett.
>
> usage examples:
>
> mkvpm add <user@domain> creates 'user's mailbox
> mkvpm gry <user@domain> toggles greylisting
> mkvpm del <user@domain> removes 'user's mailbox
> mkvpm mod <user@domain> modifies 'user's password
> mkvpm aka <alias> <destination> toggles an alias for an address
> mkvpm set <secret> set the SMTP AUTH secret
> mkvpm all <user@domain> toggles wildcard reception to an address
> mkvpm relay <ip> enabled relaying based on your IP
>

For my current situation that provides no useful information/guidance.

I had done "mkvpm set <secret> " back in June.
The system's reaction made no sense to me.
I then went looking for documentation that would suggest what had gone
wrong. *UNSUCCESSFUL* :<

Have I committed some unrecoverable error?

Further suggestions?
TIA

Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 07/22/2023 09:30 AM, Dirk Fieldhouse wrote:
>> On 22/07/2023 14:16, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>> Back in May, when searching for a POP3 email provider, it was suggested
>>> I use sdf.org with the VPM [Mail Service] option.
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> There is a function called "mkvpm" which is part of their security
>>> protocol. I can't find its documentation.
>>>
>>> Where is the appropriate man-page or tutorial?
>>
>>  From <https://sdf.org/?tutorials/smtpauth> this is a command that you
>> run in your shell account (SSH into a POSIX command line according to
>> the home page)
>
> All that URL really tells me is that the command exists and not to chose
> an unsuitable password.
>
>>
>> mkvpm set secret
>>
>> where 'secret' is what you've chosen as your SMTP password. Otherwise,
>> what happens with either of these commands entered in the shell?
>> * man mkvpm
>> * mkvpm --help
>
> The result I get is:
>
>> $ man mkvpm
>> man: no entry for mkvpm in the manual.
>> $ mkvpm --help
>>
>> mkvpm - Allows you to add/mod/del 'virtual pop3 mailboxes' for your
>>         VHOST domain. By default ANYTHING@domain.com will go to rowlett.
>>
>> usage examples:
>>
>>   mkvpm add   <user@domain>          creates 'user's mailbox
>>   mkvpm gry   <user@domain>          toggles greylisting
>>   mkvpm del   <user@domain>          removes 'user's mailbox
>>   mkvpm mod   <user@domain>          modifies 'user's password
>>   mkvpm aka   <alias> <destination>  toggles an alias for an address
>>   mkvpm set   <secret>               set the SMTP AUTH secret
>>   mkvpm all   <user@domain>          toggles wildcard reception to an
>> address
>>   mkvpm relay <ip>                   enabled relaying based on your IP
>>
>
> For my current situation that provides no useful information/guidance.
>
> I had done "mkvpm set   <secret> " back in June.
> The system's reaction made no sense to me.
> I then went looking for documentation that would suggest what had gone
> wrong. *UNSUCCESSFUL* :<
>
> Have I committed some unrecoverable error?
>
> Further suggestions?
> TIA
>
>

Looking at that page Dirk pointed to, you need "secret" to send mail,
not to receive it.

I'd have thought those "Quick Starter Notes" - near the beginning -
along with the Thunderbird instructions should tell you pretty much all
you need to set up POP3, or IMAP. What surprises me there is that *all*
of my POP3 accounts require port 995 and sdf.org suggest port 110
instead. 995 is SSL/TLS which is what they suggest for IMAP (993 is
SSL/TLS for IMAP).

Now to sending mail, the Thunderbird instructions say "Outgoing SMTP
(only works if you are MetaARPA or pay for dialup)". Are you MetaARPA?
Port 587 seems to mandate "secret".
I wonder if that "secret" stuff only applies to one of Meta-ARPA or
VHOST and you have the other one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMTP_Authentication gives some clues but I
know very little about this area.

On 07/22/2023 01:52 PM, Don Spam's Reckless Son wrote:
> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 07/22/2023 09:30 AM, Dirk Fieldhouse wrote:
>>> On 22/07/2023 14:16, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>> Back in May, when searching for a POP3 email provider, it was suggested
>>>> I use sdf.org with the VPM [Mail Service] option.
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> There is a function called "mkvpm" which is part of their security
>>>> protocol. I can't find its documentation.
>>>>
>>>> Where is the appropriate man-page or tutorial?
>>>
>>>  From <https://sdf.org/?tutorials/smtpauth> this is a command that you
>>> run in your shell account (SSH into a POSIX command line according to
>>> the home page)
>>
>> All that URL really tells me is that the command exists and not to
>> chose an unsuitable password.
>>
>>>
>>> mkvpm set secret
>>>
>>> where 'secret' is what you've chosen as your SMTP password. Otherwise,
>>> what happens with either of these commands entered in the shell?
>>> * man mkvpm
>>> * mkvpm --help
>>
>> The result I get is:
>>
>>> $ man mkvpm
>>> man: no entry for mkvpm in the manual.
>>> $ mkvpm --help
>>>
>>> mkvpm - Allows you to add/mod/del 'virtual pop3 mailboxes' for your
>>>         VHOST domain. By default ANYTHING@domain.com will go to rowlett.
>>>
>>> usage examples:
>>>
>>>   mkvpm add   <user@domain>          creates 'user's mailbox
>>>   mkvpm gry   <user@domain>          toggles greylisting
>>>   mkvpm del   <user@domain>          removes 'user's mailbox
>>>   mkvpm mod   <user@domain>          modifies 'user's password
>>>   mkvpm aka   <alias> <destination>  toggles an alias for an address
>>>   mkvpm set   <secret>               set the SMTP AUTH secret
>>>   mkvpm all   <user@domain>          toggles wildcard reception to an
>>> address
>>>   mkvpm relay <ip>                   enabled relaying based on your IP
>>>
>>
>> For my current situation that provides no useful information/guidance.
>>
>> I had done "mkvpm set   <secret> " back in June.
>> The system's reaction made no sense to me.
>> I then went looking for documentation that would suggest what had gone
>> wrong. *UNSUCCESSFUL* :<
>>
>> Have I committed some unrecoverable error?
>>
>> Further suggestions?
>> TIA
>>
>>
>
> Looking at that page Dirk pointed to, you need "secret" to send mail,
> not to receive it.

That is correct. I had no problem setting up SeaMonkey to read mail sent
to rowlett@sdf.org .

I wish to send mail so I joined at the VPM membership level.
see https://sdf.org/?tutorials/e-mail-basics#intro

My question is explicitly focused on how to use the "mkvpm" command.
The system allows for possibly having multiple email addresses for a
single account with the appropriate membership level. I explicitly wish
to use only one.

ALL membership levels can send/receive email using mutt.
see http://sdf.org/?tutorials/mutt

I find mutt inconvenient/awkward/... At 80 I wish to continue using
SeaMonkey configured for my purposes.

I used sdf.org in Subject to attract responses from SDF members.
My ultimate goal is to edit the various email related pages of
wiki.sdf.org to add a link to an appropriate newbie friendly description
of the "mkvpm" command.

>
> I'd have thought those "Quick Starter Notes" - near the beginning -
> along with the Thunderbird instructions should tell you pretty much all
> you need to set up POP3, or IMAP.  What surprises me there is that *all*
> of my POP3 accounts require port 995 and sdf.org suggest port 110
> instead.  995 is SSL/TLS which is what they suggest for IMAP (993 is
> SSL/TLS for IMAP).
>
> Now to sending mail, the Thunderbird instructions say "Outgoing SMTP
> (only works if you are MetaARPA or pay for dialup)".  Are you MetaARPA?
> Port 587 seems to mandate "secret".
> I wonder if that "secret" stuff only applies to one of Meta-ARPA or
> VHOST and you have the other one.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMTP_Authentication gives some clues but I
> know very little about this area.

On 2023-07-23, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 07/22/2023 01:52 PM, Don Spam's Reckless Son wrote:
>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>> On 07/22/2023 09:30 AM, Dirk Fieldhouse wrote:
>>>> On 22/07/2023 14:16, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>>> Back in May, when searching for a POP3 email provider, it was suggested
>>>>> I use sdf.org with the VPM [Mail Service] option.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a function called "mkvpm" which is part of their security
>>>>> protocol. I can't find its documentation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where is the appropriate man-page or tutorial?
>>>>
>>>>  From <https://sdf.org/?tutorials/smtpauth> this is a command that you
>>>> run in your shell account (SSH into a POSIX command line according to
>>>> the home page)
>>>
>>> All that URL really tells me is that the command exists and not to
>>> chose an unsuitable password.

To add another web address of SDF documentation related to SMTP (unless
it has already been linked in this thread):
https://sdf.org/?faq?EMAIL?08

(There are, I think, at least three "collections" of SDF documentation
on the web: faqs, tutorials and the wiki.)

>>>> mkvpm set secret
>>>>
>>>> where 'secret' is what you've chosen as your SMTP password. Otherwise,
>>>> what happens with either of these commands entered in the shell?
>>>> * man mkvpm
>>>> * mkvpm --help
>>>
>>> The result I get is:
>>>
>>>> $ man mkvpm
>>>> man: no entry for mkvpm in the manual.
>>>> $ mkvpm --help
>>>>
>>>> mkvpm - Allows you to add/mod/del 'virtual pop3 mailboxes' for your
>>>>         VHOST domain. By default ANYTHING@domain.com will go to rowlett.

From what I've read so far I think this short description is only
describing part of the command. Or maybe that's what it does without the
second (add/del/mod/set...) argument?

[...]
>>>>   mkvpm add   <user@domain>          creates 'user's mailbox
>>>>   mkvpm gry   <user@domain>          toggles greylisting
>>>>   mkvpm del   <user@domain>          removes 'user's mailbox
>>>>   mkvpm mod   <user@domain>          modifies 'user's password
>>>>   mkvpm aka   <alias> <destination>  toggles an alias for an address
>>>>   mkvpm set   <secret>               set the SMTP AUTH secret
[...]
>>> For my current situation that provides no useful information/guidance.
>>>
>>> I had done "mkvpm set   <secret> " back in June.
>>> The system's reaction made no sense to me.
>>> I then went looking for documentation that would suggest what had
>>> gone wrong. *UNSUCCESSFUL* :<

Did it show some message you can share?

--
Nuno Silva

On 07/23/2023 03:15 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2023-07-23, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> On 07/22/2023 01:52 PM, Don Spam's Reckless Son wrote:
>>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>> On 07/22/2023 09:30 AM, Dirk Fieldhouse wrote:
>>>>> On 22/07/2023 14:16, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>>>> Back in May, when searching for a POP3 email provider, it was suggested
>>>>>> I use sdf.org with the VPM [Mail Service] option.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a function called "mkvpm" which is part of their security
>>>>>> protocol. I can't find its documentation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where is the appropriate man-page or tutorial?
>>>>>
>>>>>  From <https://sdf.org/?tutorials/smtpauth> this is a command that you
>>>>> run in your shell account (SSH into a POSIX command line according to
>>>>> the home page)
>>>>
>>>> All that URL really tells me is that the command exists and not to
>>>> chose an unsuitable password.
>
> To add another web address of SDF documentation related to SMTP (unless
> it has already been linked in this thread):
> https://sdf.org/?faq?EMAIL?08

Don't recall if it has been mentioned here.
I had seen it as I had searched sdf.org for "VPM" {my membership type}

>
> (There are, I think, at least three "collections" of SDF documentation
> on the web: faqs, tutorials and the wiki.)
>

One of my goals is to create a useful index to that conglomeration of
knowledge.

>>>>> mkvpm set secret
>>>>>
>>>>> where 'secret' is what you've chosen as your SMTP password. Otherwise,
>>>>> what happens with either of these commands entered in the shell?
>>>>> * man mkvpm
>>>>> * mkvpm --help
>>>>
>>>> The result I get is:
>>>>
>>>>> $ man mkvpm
>>>>> man: no entry for mkvpm in the manual.
>>>>> $ mkvpm --help
>>>>>
>>>>> mkvpm - Allows you to add/mod/del 'virtual pop3 mailboxes' for your
>>>>>         VHOST domain. By default ANYTHING@domain.com will go to rowlett.
>
> From what I've read so far I think this short description is only
> describing part of the command. Or maybe that's what it does without the
> second (add/del/mod/set...) argument?
>
> [...]
>>>>>   mkvpm add   <user@domain>          creates 'user's mailbox
>>>>>   mkvpm gry   <user@domain>          toggles greylisting
>>>>>   mkvpm del   <user@domain>          removes 'user's mailbox
>>>>>   mkvpm mod   <user@domain>          modifies 'user's password
>>>>>   mkvpm aka   <alias> <destination>  toggles an alias for an address
>>>>>   mkvpm set   <secret>               set the SMTP AUTH secret
> [...]
>>>> For my current situation that provides no useful information/guidance.
>>>>
>>>> I had done "mkvpm set   <secret> " back in June.
>>>> The system's reaction made no sense to me.
>>>> I then went looking for documentation that would suggest what had
>>>> gone wrong. *UNSUCCESSFUL* :<
>
> Did it show some message you can share?
>
I did not look like a message. Just a list of words. Unfortunately I
didn't save it. One of the pieces of information I hoped to see in
proper documentation would how one would know whether or not
[ MVP set <secret> ] had succeeded or not.

It seems like you need to do

mkvpm mod <user@domain>

to set your desired POP3 password (I suppose it prompts you to type the
new value, probably twice). And

mkvpm secret <your_desired_SMTP_secret>

in the shell account (but only if that applies to your account, as
discussed by "Don").

If mutt works, review ~/.muttrc or ~/.mutt/muttrc or /etc/Muttrc to see
the configuration that mutt uses.

Then adapt the Thunderbird instructions using that configuration.

/df

--
London
UK

On 23/07/2023 22:48, Richard Owlett wrote:
> ...>
> proper documentation would how one would know whether or not
>    [ MVP set   <secret> ] had succeeded or not.
>

Perhaps type this immediately afterwards

echo $?

0 - conventionally, OK
else - some error

But maybe the mkvpm program doesn't follow the convention.

/df

--
London
UK