https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/24/nvidia-reports-slowing-growth-after-earlier-warning.html

Why, when graphics card prices are at an all time high, that Nvidia is
losing revenue?

On 8/24/22 16:20, Heron wrote:
> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/24/nvidia-reports-slowing-growth-after-earlier-warning.html
>
>
> Why, when graphics card prices are at an all time high, that Nvidia is
> losing revenue?

Just an uneducated guess: now that Intel has
been putting graphic processors on their CPU
that work just fine for most things, a lot
of graphic cards have had to be taken off
the market and nVidia is struggling to
make up the loss. They got their legs cut
out from underneath them.

The only place I have seen graphic cards
still used is video processing and digital
currency mining.

I suppose Garmers like them, but I don't
not see any of their stuff. They do not
need me.

Intel's on CPU even work with Ultra
Wide monitors.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 18:15:09 -0700, T wrote:

>> Why, when graphics card prices are at an all time high, that Nvidia is
>> losing revenue?
>
> Just an uneducated guess: now that Intel has
> been putting graphic processors on their CPU
> that work just fine for most things

Do they?
Do people no longer need a separate graphics card?

Another idea that might be why is sky high prices to the point people
stopped upgrading maybe?

On 8/24/2022 9:27 PM, dan wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 18:15:09 -0700, T wrote:
>
>>> Why, when graphics card prices are at an all time high, that Nvidia is
>>> losing revenue?
>>
>> Just an uneducated guess: now that Intel has
>> been putting graphic processors on their CPU
>> that work just fine for most things
>
> Do they?
> Do people no longer need a separate graphics card?
>
> Another idea that might be why is sky high prices to the point people
> stopped upgrading maybe?
>

10100 4C 8T processor with UHD 630 graphics $122

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/199283/intel-core-i310100-processor-6m-cache-up-to-4-30-ghz.html

10100F 4C 8T processor with no graphics $ 97

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/203473/intel-core-i310100f-processor-6m-cache-up-to-4-30-ghz.html

The top processor in the example, drives the DP port and the HDMI port
in the I/O plate area of your motherboard. The DP port and the HDMI port
are not driven at all electrically, if you selected and installed
that $97 processor.

If you cheaped out and saved yourself the $25 by buying the cut-down
version of the CPU, it'll cost you around $230 to buy a video card
which has "no compromises". Some of the cheap NAVI video cards on
offer, the ones with PCI Express x4 lane wiring, they don't even have
a video decoder inside for movie playback (which means they are poor
candidates for home theater setups). Paying $230 is where the
cards start to be "as good as video cards in the old days".

What you want then, is a CPU with a built-in graphics. Even if
later, you choose not to use the built-in graphics (for some value
of "suckage"), at least it is there as a fallback. For example,
if the fan fails on your $230 video card, you can go back to using
that $25 GPU you so thoughtfully provided for yourself.

If your computer room is filled with VGA-only monitors (mine is),
then don't forget to buy yourself some DP-to-VGA and HDMI-to-VGA
adapters. That's on top of paying $230 for a video card (truly modern
video cards, have no VGA on them -- cards with VGA are "old stock").

This is the most compact video solution you can get. Six mini-DP connectors
on a single-slot card. Which means buying adapters in at least a
few cases, to use all of these. That would drive a 2x3 matrix of
monitors (two groups of 1x3 orientation). More normal video card
configurations are "fat, ugly, and long".

https://c1.neweggimages.com/ProductImageCompressAll1280/AZUES2110214A3E8.jpg

Paul

Paul wrote:

> What you want then, is a CPU with a built-in graphics. Even if
> later, you choose not to use the built-in graphics

Looks like Nvidia gave three reasons which may or may not be true.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nvidia-sales-forecast-falls-about-1-billion-short-of-wall-street-expectations-11661373933

"PC sales have pulled back considerably after a two-year surge"

"spending on videogames and gear for them has also come back to earth"

"drops in cryptocurrency prices have made mining less profitable"

Do you believe them?

Heron,

> Why, when graphics card prices are at an all time high, that Nvidia is
> losing revenue?

just a few things from the top of my mind :

1) the time-order is backwards : Nvidea is loosing revenue so they jack up
their prices.

2) They jack up the prices but (as a result?) the sales of the cards fall
behind

3) The increment of the cost of making then cards is larger than the
increment in price (their winnings per card decline).

4) Their cards are not wanted anymore, so sales go down to trickle (also see
#2).

Take your pick, mix-and-match, or add another possible reason. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Heron <McKeister@ipanywhere.com> wrote:
> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/24/nvidia-reports-slowing-growth-after-earlier-warning.html
>
> Why, when graphics card prices are at an all time high, that Nvidia is
> losing revenue?

They can't make enough product to sell. I also wonder how much the higher
prices are from nVidia
or the rest of the supply chain?

Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2022, um 18:15:09 Uhr schrieb T:

> The only place I have seen graphic cards
> still used is video processing and digital
> currency mining.
>
> I suppose Garmers like them, but I don't
> not see any of their stuff. They do not
> need me.
>
> Intel's on CPU even work with Ultra
> Wide monitors.

25 years ago every computer had a dedicated GPU. Now most computers
already have an IGP (first in the northbridge, then in the CPU).
Both Intel and AMD reduced their assortment - they don't have low price
cards like they had with Geforce 2 MX or 6200 anymore.

On 25/08/2022 6:45, Chris wrote:

> They can't make enough product to sell.

Nvidia says it built too many GPUs
https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/24/23320758/nvidia-gpu-supply-demand-inventory-q2-2022

"Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang confirmed what we've suspected for months: Nvidia
actually built too many gaming GPUs and is now being forced to sell them
for less money. "We found ourselves with excess inventory," says Huang.
"Our strategy is to sell-in well below the current sell-through levels in
the marketplace to give the channel an opportunity to correct."

On 25/08/2022 10:04, Marco Moock wrote:

> 25 years ago every computer had a dedicated GPU. Now most computers
> already have an IGP (first in the northbridge, then in the CPU).
> Both Intel and AMD reduced their assortment - they don't have low price
> cards like they had with Geforce 2 MX or 6200 anymore.

The wasn't cloud computing 25 years ago but I keep hearing that nvidia
sells gpus mostly to be used by industry giants for cloud computing.

Why does the cloud need gpus?
--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 25-08-2022 12:05 "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> wrote:

> Take your pick, mix-and-match, or add another possible reason

Since when do electronics sell at the MSRP let alone HIGHER than the MSRP?

Nvidia RTX 3080 average eBay sales price, June 2021 to June 2022
https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/1/23191634/nvidia-amd-gpu-shortage-over-3080-3070-3060-radeon-rx-6900-6800

With sales HIGHER than MSRP, Nvidia should be making a bundle.
Not losing a bundle.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 21:49:10 -0600, Gronk wrote:

> "drops in cryptocurrency prices have made mining less profitable"

I read somewhere that Chinese crypto currency miners have been dismantling
their rigs selling their overused probably abused gpu cards on the market.

But why does crypto mining use only the GPU and not the CPU?

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 18:20:25 -0500, Heron <McKeister@ipanywhere.com>
wrote:

>https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/24/nvidia-reports-slowing-growth-after-earlier-warning.html
>
>Why, when graphics card prices are at an all time high, that Nvidia is
>losing revenue?

Perhaps prices are at an all-time high because fewer are being sold.

And perhaps fewer are being sold because more and more people are
using laptops rather than desktops.

On 8/25/22 06:51, soyon wrote:
> But why does crypto mining use only the GPU and not the CPU?

Because they can get bazillions of processors more
than a cpu. Most high end video cards have multiple
cores on them. It is like creating a super compuer

On 8/25/22 01:04, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2022, um 18:15:09 Uhr schrieb T:
>
>> The only place I have seen graphic cards
>> still used is video processing and digital
>> currency mining.
>>
>> I suppose Garmers like them, but I don't
>> not see any of their stuff. They do not
>> need me.
>>
>> Intel's on CPU even work with Ultra
>> Wide monitors.
>
> 25 years ago every computer had a dedicated GPU. Now most computers
> already have an IGP (first in the northbridge, then in the CPU).
> Both Intel and AMD reduced their assortment - they don't have low price
> cards like they had with Geforce 2 MX or 6200 anymore.
>

look for pny cards on amazon

On 8/25/22 07:29, T wrote:
> On 8/25/22 01:04, Marco Moock wrote:
>> Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2022, um 18:15:09 Uhr schrieb T:
>>
>>> The only place I have seen graphic cards
>>> still used is video processing and digital
>>> currency mining.
>>>
>>> I suppose Garmers like them, but I don't
>>> not see any of their stuff.  They do not
>>> need me.
>>>
>>> Intel's on CPU even work with Ultra
>>> Wide monitors.
>>
>> 25 years ago every computer had a dedicated GPU. Now most computers
>> already have an IGP (first in the northbridge, then in the CPU).
>> Both Intel and AMD reduced their assortment - they don't have low price
>> cards like they had with Geforce 2 MX or 6200 anymore.
>>
>
> look for pny cards on amazon
Here are two I have used on customer's older computers:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M8HZFNE
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0046HSHD0

On 8/25/22 07:06, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 18:20:25 -0500, Heron <McKeister@ipanywhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/24/nvidia-reports-slowing-growth-after-earlier-warning.html
>>
>> Why, when graphics card prices are at an all time high, that Nvidia is
>> losing revenue?
>
>
> Perhaps prices are at an all-time high because fewer are being sold.
>
> And perhaps fewer are being sold because more and more people are
> using laptops rather than desktops.

They are also using the graphic processors that
come on the CPUs

I have not used a graphic's card on a new build
in about 10 years.

On 8/25/2022 4:04 AM, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2022, um 18:15:09 Uhr schrieb T:
>
>> The only place I have seen graphic cards
>> still used is video processing and digital
>> currency mining.
>>
>> I suppose Garmers like them, but I don't
>> not see any of their stuff. They do not
>> need me.
>>
>> Intel's on CPU even work with Ultra
>> Wide monitors.
>
> 25 years ago every computer had a dedicated GPU. Now most computers
> already have an IGP (first in the northbridge, then in the CPU).
> Both Intel and AMD reduced their assortment - they don't have low price
> cards like they had with Geforce 2 MX or 6200 anymore.
>

The very best GPU inside the motherboard Northbridge, was
one that drew only 2 watts. The Northbridge didn't even need
any cooling. But there were no shaders, no video decoders,
just a frame buffer.

An example of something like that today, is an Aspeed GPU.
These are put on server motherboards. In this case, made
available for computer usage. There is no heatsink on this
one either. I couldn't find a price. Since the video card
edge connector bandwidth is only 500MB/sec, there might be
a few video operations which are not fast enough (a good test
is dragging an old QuickTime Player application around a screen).

https://www.gigabyte.com/pt/Enterprise/Accessory/GC-IVA-rev-10

There isn't a reason to own one of those, but it's still
interesting that they tried. It appears the distribution
is carefully controlled. The resolution on that is listed
as 1900x1200, but the thing is probably happier around
1440x900 or 1600x1200.

Paul

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 07:28:33 -0700, T wrote:

>> But why does crypto mining use only the GPU and not the CPU?
>
> Because they can get bazillions of processors more
> than a cpu. Most high end video cards have multiple
> cores on them. It is like creating a super compuer

I'd like to know more about using the GPU to make a better computer.

If I have three available motherboard slots and I put in three GPUs and
then I run programs, how do I tell those (mining?) programs to use the
trhee GPUs and not the one CPU?

On 25/08/2022 17:06, Paul wrote:

> But there were no shaders, no video decoders,
> just a frame buffer.

To a normal person who doesn't know gpu terminology, what's a shader and a
frame buffer? I guess a video decoder unravels the codec?
--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 25-08-2022 16:41 T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>>> Why, when graphics card prices are at an all time high, that Nvidia is
>>> losing revenue?
>>
>> Perhaps prices are at an all-time high because fewer are being sold.
>>
>> And perhaps fewer are being sold because more and more people are
>> using laptops rather than desktops.
>
> They are also using the graphic processors that
> come on the CPUs
>
> I have not used a graphic's card on a new build
> in about 10 years.

What kind of NEED is there for the graphics card outside of the CPU then?

To give me a perspective, what does the graphics card on the CPU do?
Can it run "normal" graphics (that is, not games) that I do all the time?

Is the graphics card then just for games?
Or is the graphics card for doing things like Excel spreadsheets?

On 8/25/2022 2:45 AM, Chris wrote:
> Heron <McKeister@ipanywhere.com> wrote:
>> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/24/nvidia-reports-slowing-growth-after-earlier-warning.html
>>
>> Why, when graphics card prices are at an all time high, that Nvidia is
>> losing revenue?
>
> They can't make enough product to sell. I also wonder how much the higher
> prices are from nVidia
> or the rest of the supply chain?
>

Currently, there is a small pile of RTX3xxx series cards to get
rid of, as the RTX4xxx series is coming in. For the same performance,
the MSRP of the 4xxx cards will be lower.

(Page has excessive advertising...)

https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia/geforce-rtx-3000-stock-rtx-4000

But somebody will profit from any largesse on NVidias part.
And it won't be me or you.

This one is $300 and could stand to lose a bit of price.

https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-rtx-3050-rtx-3050-ventus-2x-8g-oc/p/N82E16814137708

If there's to be a bargain, you could blink and miss it.

Paul

On 8/25/2022 11:18 AM, mike wrote:

> What kind of NEED is there for the graphics card outside of the CPU then?

It provides "superior" graphics performance. They implement modern
versions of DirectX and OpenGL.

>
> To give me a perspective, what does the graphics card on the CPU do?
> Can it run "normal" graphics (that is, not games) that I do all the time?

Yes. Using one would mostly (but not necessarily completely) put the
GPU on the CPU on hold.

>
> Is the graphics card then just for games?
> Or is the graphics card for doing things like Excel spreadsheets?

It can do video editing too, as well as CAD-CAM (engineering-like
programs). If you tried to run them without an external graphics card
it would be VERY sluggish.

Graphics cards are good at math, and many scientists rig them up to
assist with "parallel processing" computing tasks. Remember the old
fast Cray mainframe computers? They were "vector" computers, and
graphics card share their "parallel" computation approach, at least
in spirit. A modern graphics card is a darn complicated thing (Paul
knows far more about them that I do!).

On 25-08-2022 16:59 Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

>> What kind of NEED is there for the graphics card outside of the CPU then?
>
> It provides "superior" graphics performance. They implement modern
> versions of DirectX and OpenGL.

I've heard the terms DirectX and maybe OpenGL but can you put them in a
sentence that explains why a normal user needs to know what they mean?

>>
>> To give me a perspective, what does the graphics card on the CPU do?
>> Can it run "normal" graphics (that is, not games) that I do all the time?
>
> Yes. Using one would mostly (but not necessarily completely) put the
> GPU on the CPU on hold.

How would I know, in normal use, if I NEEDED this graphics card?

When I watch videos on YouTube, for example, they come in at one second per
second. What would it mean to me for them to come in any faster than that?

I'm not asking about streaming speeds but in terms of graphics, as long as
the monitor is filling up with pixels at the rate of one second per second,
why do I care if pixels fill up much faster than I can see them change?

>
>>
>> Is the graphics card then just for games?
>> Or is the graphics card for doing things like Excel spreadsheets?
>
> It can do video editing too, as well as CAD-CAM (engineering-like
> programs). If you tried to run them without an external graphics card
> it would be VERY sluggish.

OK. But a normal user doesn't do CAD/CAM, do they?
And I can see that Pixar might want special graphics cards too.

But what about a normal user who just watches videos at the monitor
resolution? Maybe two monitors?

Does two monitors require the special graphics card then?

>
> Graphics cards are good at math, and many scientists rig them up to
> assist with "parallel processing" computing tasks. Remember the old
> fast Cray mainframe computers? They were "vector" computers, and
> graphics card share their "parallel" computation approach, at least
> in spirit. A modern graphics card is a darn complicated thing (Paul
> knows far more about them that I do!).

Is there a program that I would want that NEEDS this graphic math?

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 07:06:50 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 18:20:25 -0500, Heron <McKeister@ipanywhere.com>
>wrote:
>
>>https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/24/nvidia-reports-slowing-growth-after-earlier-warning.html
>>
>>Why, when graphics card prices are at an all time high, that Nvidia is
>>losing revenue?
>
>
>Perhaps prices are at an all-time high because fewer are being sold.
>
>And perhaps fewer are being sold because more and more people are
>using laptops rather than desktops.

Kind of bucks at supply and demand. Fewer being sold should bring the
price down, as long as supply is a constant. Of course, supply is not a
constant; it's come down too due to supply chain issues.

In any event, prices for discrete GPUs is at least as high as the market
can bear, if not higher. I suspect higher, which would dent sales.

I would guess that enthusiasts are not buying graphics cards at these
prices at all. I know I'm waiting. Which leaves the crypto market, which
is tanking.

So maybe we get some cards at enthusiast level pricing soon? I hope so.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten