I just stumbled upon this Computer Chronicles episode https://youtu.be/
10b6RYxt2pg?t=800 that demos the Dialog service, a database that was
accessible online with broad subjects of information.

Seems like an ancestor to Wikipedia to me. Has anyone used it? How was it
like?

Thanks.

On 2022-10-16, zero <zero@internet.invalid> wrote:
> I just stumbled upon this Computer Chronicles episode https://youtu.be/
> 10b6RYxt2pg?t=800 that demos the Dialog service, a database that was
> accessible online with broad subjects of information.
>
> Seems like an ancestor to Wikipedia to me. Has anyone used it? How was it
> like?
>
>

I remember the name, I think its was owned by some of the airplane
companies for their own use, and then opened up to public use. For early
wikipedia-like things, archie, gopher, etc, would be more in the line of
descent. The Internet to be at that time would be more in the BBS scene,
great fun, and easy to use on local phone lines.

Far better that the cancel culture at the moment.

when you connected to a BBS system at the time, you were presented with
a menu of choices and keys to press to enter the various areas. Pressing
keys not on the menu opened a different world.

--
greymausg@mail.org

Fe,Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

In <slrntko5hi.3ho.maus@dmaus.org> maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:

>On 2022-10-16, zero <zero@internet.invalid> wrote:
>> I just stumbled upon this Computer Chronicles episode https://youtu.be/
>> 10b6RYxt2pg?t=800 that demos the Dialog service, a database that was
>> accessible online with broad subjects of information.

>I remember the name, I think its was owned by some of the airplane
>companies for their own use,

It was offered by Lockheed. They aimed for corporate users
and had a small "general public" offering.

I had an account for a shrt period via a library. If I recall correclty
(I could VERY easily be wrong) it was outragesously expensive..

ahhh... "Knowledge Index"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProQuest_Dialog

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On 10/16/2022 6:44 AM, zero wrote:
> I just stumbled upon this Computer Chronicles episode https://youtu.be/
> 10b6RYxt2pg?t=800 that demos the Dialog service, a database that was
> accessible online with broad subjects of information.
>
> Seems like an ancestor to Wikipedia to me. Has anyone used it? How was it
> like?
>
Yup. It was a compendium of hundreds of proprietary databases. Dialog
was owned IIRC by Lockheed, accessed through one of those dialup
access services (I forget the name). For example, a typical database
might be that of an organic chemistry journal. Think "Google Scholar"
for the type of content. When signing up, you got a carton full of
binders and pages, with a few pages on each database, describing the
content and coverage, price, and giving the search syntax (every one
was different). The per-minute charge was IIRC anywhere from a few
cents to a few dollars, plus Dialog's standard charge for access. They
regularly mailed you update pages for your binders.

For serious searches, it was nice, though you had to search each
database separately. Each database specified precisely what the
content was (e.g. "all articles published in this collection of
journals since 1950") and search syntax with precise options (e.g.
"word X within 5 words of word Y, but nothing that contains word Z,
between these dates").

It could suck money fast if you didn't pay attention. Apparently most
users had large budgets and didn't care, but my operation didn't. We'd
go through the binder pages, log on for a prelim search, and
immediately log off to figure whether there were hits we wanted to
follow up on. Then log on again. I recall seeing discussion somewhere
noting that (I think it was) Chinese researchers also used this
technique, but I guess it wasn't common.

I tossed all the database pages decades ago, but still have a few of
the binders in recycled service.

Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 10/16/2022 6:44 AM, zero wrote:
>> I just stumbled upon this Computer Chronicles episode https://youtu.be/
>> 10b6RYxt2pg?t=800 that demos the Dialog service, a database that was
>> accessible online with broad subjects of information.
>>
>> Seems like an ancestor to Wikipedia to me. Has anyone used it? How was it
>> like?
>>
> Yup. It was a compendium of hundreds of proprietary databases. Dialog
> was owned IIRC by Lockheed, accessed through one of those dialup
> access services (I forget the name). For example, a typical database
> might be that of an organic chemistry journal. Think "Google Scholar"
> for the type of content. When signing up, you got a carton full of
> binders and pages, with a few pages on each database, describing the
> content and coverage, price, and giving the search syntax (every one
> was different). The per-minute charge was IIRC anywhere from a few
> cents to a few dollars, plus Dialog's standard charge for access. They
> regularly mailed you update pages for your binders.
>
> For serious searches, it was nice, though you had to search each
> database separately. Each database specified precisely what the
> content was (e.g. "all articles published in this collection of
> journals since 1950") and search syntax with precise options (e.g.
> "word X within 5 words of word Y, but nothing that contains word Z,
> between these dates").
>
> It could suck money fast if you didn't pay attention. Apparently most
> users had large budgets and didn't care, but my operation didn't. We'd
> go through the binder pages, log on for a prelim search, and
> immediately log off to figure whether there were hits we wanted to
> follow up on. Then log on again. I recall seeing discussion somewhere
> noting that (I think it was) Chinese researchers also used this
> technique, but I guess it wasn't common.
>
> I tossed all the database pages decades ago, but still have a few of
> the binders in recycled service.
>

I think some organizations had people specifically to do the searches.
They’d sit with the researcher and formulate a query as precisely as
possible.

--
Pete

zero <zero@internet.invalid> writes:
> I just stumbled upon this Computer Chronicles episode https://youtu.be/
> 10b6RYxt2pg?t=800 that demos the Dialog service, a database that was
> accessible online with broad subjects of information.

re:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProQuest_Dialog
https://web.archive.org/web/20050123104257/http://www.dialog.com/about/history/pioneers1.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20050115000851/http://www.dialog.com/about/history/pioneers2.pdf

former co-worker was consulting for them (when they were still owned by
lockhead) ... was invited to stop by and visit a couple times.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

On Sun, 16 Oct 2022 14:33:58 -1000, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:

> was invited to stop by and visit a couple times.

Would you care to describe how it was like to be there?

zero <zero@internet.invalid> writes:
> Would you care to describe how it was like to be there?

archive DIALOG email ... refers to AS9000.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#email810422
in this old e.f.c thread
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#24 Old datasearches
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#44 Old datasearches
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#46 Old datasearches

email mentioned call (while I was at DIALOG) from former co-worker that
was consulting to DIALOG. Also mentioned recruiter had asked me to
interview for assistant to NAS president ... didn't turn out well, I had
a complete set of 811 (confidential 370/xa) architecture documents and I
got the impression that somehow they knew and were asking questions
about it. I made mention that I had recently submitted a suggestion to
strengthen the ethics in the IBM Conduct Guidelins (that every emplooyee
has to read & sign once a year) ... which was end of the interview.

The former co-worker said I could make a lot more money going to DIAGLOG
(this was during a period where IBM was telling me I didn't have career,
promotions, and/or raises at IBM). That wasn't the end of it, later the
US gov. was suing the Japanese maker of the AS 9000 for industrial
espionage and because I was listed on lobby log, I had 3hr interview
with FBI agent.

slightly earlier DIALOG/AS9000 email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#email810318
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#email810421
in this a.f.c. thread archived post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#38

I have some vague recollection that DIALOG had 300 clone 3330-II disk
drives with dual channel attach to 370/158 and the AS9000.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>
> I have some vague recollection that DIALOG had 300 clone 3330-II disk
> drives with dual channel attach to 370/158 and the AS9000.
>

Wow, how many megawatts did that draw?

--
Pete

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
> archive DIALOG email ... refers to AS9000.
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#email810422
> in this old e.f.c thread
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#24 Old datasearches
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#44 Old datasearches
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#46 Old datasearches

email comment/observation was that DIALOG had 120 people, and was part
of a Lockheed division that had 20,000 people ... and DIALOG accounted
for 40% of the division's profits ... and DIALOG was in the process of
becoming an independent business unit.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970