Netflix just sent an email saying DVD service will end
in late September, 2023. The obvious nudge is to start
streaming. It appears that one uses a browser, on the Pi
it'd probably be chromium, as the viewer. That's sort of
OK for YouTube, but I'm a little skeptical for Netflix.

Any thoughts on how well it'd work, and how the streaming
catalog compares to the DVD catalog (which has dwindled
hugely since the good old days)?

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

bob prohaska wrote:

> Netflix just sent an email saying DVD service will end
> in late September, 2023. The obvious nudge is to start
> streaming. It appears that one uses a browser, on the Pi
> it'd probably be chromium, as the viewer. That's sort of
> OK for YouTube, but I'm a little skeptical for Netflix.

I did get netflix working on a Pi using Kodi, at that time it involved a
lot of farting about to extract widevine from a chrome installer and get
Kodi to see that, from what I've heard widevine on a Pi should be easier
now?

On 18/04/2023 23:28, bob prohaska wrote:
> Netflix just sent an email saying DVD service will end
> in late September, 2023. The obvious nudge is to start
> streaming. It appears that one uses a browser, on the Pi
> it'd probably be chromium, as the viewer. That's sort of
> OK for YouTube, but I'm a little skeptical for Netflix.
>
> Any thoughts on how well it'd work, and how the streaming
> catalog compares to the DVD catalog (which has dwindled
> hugely since the good old days)?
>
> Thanks for reading,
>
> bob prohaska
>

Netflix uses Widevine DRM. It can be installed for Chromium on the rPi
using:

sudo apt install libwidevinecdm0

On a rPi3 it is unwatchable. I've not tested on a rPi4. On an Orange Pi
5 it works fine, to a point.

The gotcha with Widevine on Netflix/Amazon Prime is that Widevine has
various security levels, L1,L2,L3. On Linux/Chromium it is not possible
to achieve the highest security level. This has the consequence that
services like Netflix and Amazon Prime limit the quality of video
streams. In Amazon Prime, streams are limited to 1.2 GB per hour, as
opposed to the normal 6 GB per hour. This means video quality is
inferior, particularly in terms of contrast.

On the bright side, I do have a docker compose file to enable
downloading Torrents over VPN. That provides a much, superior watching
experience.

Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
>
> Netflix uses Widevine DRM. It can be installed for Chromium on the rPi
> using:
>
> sudo apt install libwidevinecdm0
>
>
> On a rPi3 it is unwatchable. I've not tested on a rPi4. On an Orange Pi
> 5 it works fine, to a point.
>
> The gotcha with Widevine on Netflix/Amazon Prime is that Widevine has
> various security levels, L1,L2,L3. On Linux/Chromium it is not possible
> to achieve the highest security level. This has the consequence that
> services like Netflix and Amazon Prime limit the quality of video
> streams. In Amazon Prime, streams are limited to 1.2 GB per hour, as
> opposed to the normal 6 GB per hour. This means video quality is
> inferior, particularly in terms of contrast.
>
Sounds like it's worth a try. My display is an old 720p Panasonic
plasma display, so maybe the image quality won't matter so much.

> On the bright side, I do have a docker compose file to enable
> downloading Torrents over VPN. That provides a much, superior watching
> experience.

I'm a bit unclear how that works, could you explain or offer links
to more details? I'd be using a Netflix account, not Amazon.

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska

On 19/04/2023 19:37, bob prohaska wrote:
> Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
>>
>> Netflix uses Widevine DRM. It can be installed for Chromium on the rPi
>> using:
>>
>> sudo apt install libwidevinecdm0
>>
>>
>> On a rPi3 it is unwatchable. I've not tested on a rPi4. On an Orange Pi
>> 5 it works fine, to a point.
>>
>> The gotcha with Widevine on Netflix/Amazon Prime is that Widevine has
>> various security levels, L1,L2,L3. On Linux/Chromium it is not possible
>> to achieve the highest security level. This has the consequence that
>> services like Netflix and Amazon Prime limit the quality of video
>> streams. In Amazon Prime, streams are limited to 1.2 GB per hour, as
>> opposed to the normal 6 GB per hour. This means video quality is
>> inferior, particularly in terms of contrast.
>>
> Sounds like it's worth a try. My display is an old 720p Panasonic
> plasma display, so maybe the image quality won't matter so much.
>

Yes, give it a go. I normally find 720p good enough definition, my
criticism of the Widevine limitation was more to do with colours/contrast.

FWIW I'm thinking of getting a new LCD TV, just to say money on
electricity, 20 to 30 pennies a day soon adds up to a new TV.

>
>> On the bright side, I do have a docker compose file to enable
>> downloading Torrents over VPN. That provides a much, superior watching
>> experience.
>
> I'm a bit unclear how that works, could you explain or offer links
> to more details? I'd be using a Netflix account, not Amazon.
>

It means it is easier to set up and better quality to pirate TV, for
free, than it is to pay via a streaming platform such as Netflix or Amazon.

Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
> On 19/04/2023 19:37, bob prohaska wrote:
>> Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
>>>
>>> Netflix uses Widevine DRM. It can be installed for Chromium on the rPi
>>> using:
>>>
>>> sudo apt install libwidevinecdm0
>>>
>>>
>>> On a rPi3 it is unwatchable. I've not tested on a rPi4. On an Orange Pi
>>> 5 it works fine, to a point.
>>>
>>> The gotcha with Widevine on Netflix/Amazon Prime is that Widevine has
>>> various security levels, L1,L2,L3. On Linux/Chromium it is not possible
>>> to achieve the highest security level. This has the consequence that
>>> services like Netflix and Amazon Prime limit the quality of video
>>> streams. In Amazon Prime, streams are limited to 1.2 GB per hour, as
>>> opposed to the normal 6 GB per hour. This means video quality is
>>> inferior, particularly in terms of contrast.
>>>
>> Sounds like it's worth a try. My display is an old 720p Panasonic
>> plasma display, so maybe the image quality won't matter so much.
>>
>
> Yes, give it a go. I normally find 720p good enough definition, my
> criticism of the Widevine limitation was more to do with colours/contrast.
>
> FWIW I'm thinking of getting a new LCD TV, just to say money on
> electricity, 20 to 30 pennies a day soon adds up to a new TV.
>
>>
>>> On the bright side, I do have a docker compose file to enable
>>> downloading Torrents over VPN. That provides a much, superior watching
>>> experience.
>>
>> I'm a bit unclear how that works, could you explain or offer links
>> to more details? I'd be using a Netflix account, not Amazon.
>>
>
> It means it is easier to set up and better quality to pirate TV, for
> free, than it is to pay via a streaming platform such as Netflix or Amazon.

Don't VPN services cost cash money? A legit no-ads Netflix account is only
$10/mo. That's not much, at least these days....

Thanks for writing,

bob prohaska

On 20/04/2023 17:53, bob prohaska wrote:

>> It means it is easier to set up and better quality to pirate TV, for
>> free, than it is to pay via a streaming platform such as Netflix or Amazon.
>
> Don't VPN services cost cash money? A legit no-ads Netflix account is only
> $10/mo. That's not much, at least these days....
>

I have Amazon Prime, for about $10 a month, which I've had for years.
Recently I changed my HTPC for an orange Pi, I put a lot of effort into
getting Amazon Prime Video to work at all, now it works, but badly.

For other reasons, I use a VPN service, for privacy, to limit government
snooping. It cost buttons, $2-$3 a month. I originally got Amazon Prime
because BBC was blocked due to the VPN. So I stopped paying for the BBC.

It just seems strange that companies cripple their streaming platforms
to stop piracy, while at the same time piracy is simpler than using
their platforms at all. What is the point?

Presumably it has some economic value, it just seems strange.

On a sunny day (Fri, 21 Apr 2023 13:13:36 +0100) it happened Pancho
<Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote in <u1tulg$12b6b$2@dont-email.me>:

>On 20/04/2023 17:53, bob prohaska wrote:
>
>>> It means it is easier to set up and better quality to pirate TV, for
>>> free, than it is to pay via a streaming platform such as Netflix or Amazon.
>>
>> Don't VPN services cost cash money? A legit no-ads Netflix account is only
>> $10/mo. That's not much, at least these days....
>>
>
>I have Amazon Prime, for about $10 a month, which I've had for years.
>Recently I changed my HTPC for an orange Pi, I put a lot of effort into
>getting Amazon Prime Video to work at all, now it works, but badly.
>
>For other reasons, I use a VPN service, for privacy, to limit government
>snooping. It cost buttons, $2-$3 a month. I originally got Amazon Prime
>because BBC was blocked due to the VPN. So I stopped paying for the BBC.
>
>It just seems strange that companies cripple their streaming platforms
>to stop piracy, while at the same time piracy is simpler than using
>their platforms at all. What is the point?
>
>Presumably it has some economic value, it just seems strange.

I do not have any streaming subscription
but, here in Europe, I have a movable satellite dish and several hundred free to air channels
among those BBC 1, 2, 4, ITV, etc etc
Every day there are movies you can watch or record, now noticed an old western running.
Many repeats too.. It helps if you can speak multiple languages.
Maybe it will come to a point that memory sizes for SDcards or USB sticks will become so big
that you can get everything ever made (of value) on one USB stick, bought a 1 TB USB stick a few month ago.
And on satellite *I* decide what I see, what country, not some company picking what their
government wants them - or allows them to show to control you.
I'v had this dish with motor to steer it for more than 22 years now.
The new HD sat receiver box was something like 35 Euro.
Most is in HD.

I tried to also play those HD sat recordings on Raspberries, Pi4 is not fast enough.
But that sat box plays those no problem (records on a USB stick too),
Same for terrestrial TV here.

Cost: 20 years zero Euro per month

And there is always youtube..
I used to record satellite to CD, then DVD, then Bluray disk, have a box full with thousand of those.
Amazing to see some of that reduced in size on a 1 TB USB stick...
Or a 3.4 TB harddisk...

Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
> I have Amazon Prime, for about $10 a month, which I've had for years.
> Recently I changed my HTPC for an orange Pi, I put a lot of effort into
> getting Amazon Prime Video to work at all, now it works, but badly.

Which model of Orange Pi, and under what OS? I recently obtained an Orange
Pi 5 and put Android on it. Prime Video runs like a champ on it...more
responsive than any of the Fire TV sticks I have. So does SiriusXM. I also
have BritBox installed, but haven't tried running it. The only thing I've
not found is a working Apple TV app, but my girlfriend watched a show on
that through the web browser. (I put Edge on there to access my Invidious
server...other than lack of a pause button, that works.)

--
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

On 21/04/2023 16:13, scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
> Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
>> I have Amazon Prime, for about $10 a month, which I've had for years.
>> Recently I changed my HTPC for an orange Pi, I put a lot of effort into
>> getting Amazon Prime Video to work at all, now it works, but badly.
>
> Which model of Orange Pi, and under what OS? I recently obtained an Orange
> Pi 5 and put Android on it. Prime Video runs like a champ on it...more
> responsive than any of the Fire TV sticks I have.

Which version/download of Android? Do you get full quality Prime Video
6GB/hour?

Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
> On 21/04/2023 16:13, scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
>> Which model of Orange Pi, and under what OS? I recently obtained an Orange
>> Pi 5 and put Android on it. Prime Video runs like a champ on it...more
>> responsive than any of the Fire TV sticks I have.
>
> Which version/download of Android?

Whichever version was available for download a couple of weeks ago...think
it's based on Android 12, which is newer than what's on my phone. :)

> Do you get full quality Prime Video 6GB/hour?

I don't know and I don't know where I'd look. TBH, it's used more for Plex,
SiriusXM, and YouTube (via Invidious) than Prime Video. It's plugged into a
55" TV, and I have no complaints about video quality.

--
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

On 23/04/2023 05:29, scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
> Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
>> On 21/04/2023 16:13, scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
>>> Which model of Orange Pi, and under what OS? I recently obtained an Orange
>>> Pi 5 and put Android on it. Prime Video runs like a champ on it...more
>>> responsive than any of the Fire TV sticks I have.
>>
>> Which version/download of Android?
>
> Whichever version was available for download a couple of weeks ago...think
> it's based on Android 12, which is newer than what's on my phone. :)
>
>> Do you get full quality Prime Video 6GB/hour?
>
> I don't know and I don't know where I'd look.

While watching a video, mouse over the window, an "Options" menu icon
(cog) will appear in the top right corner. That menu will list Video
Quality. If "Best" is about 6 GB per hour, you have full DRM security,
if "Best" is about 1 GB per hour you don't

TBH, it's used more for Plex,
> SiriusXM, and YouTube (via Invidious) than Prime Video. It's plugged into a
> 55" TV, and I have no complaints about video quality.
>
Is that at 4K?

"bob prohaska" <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote

| Any thoughts on how well it'd work, and how the streaming
| catalog compares to the DVD catalog (which has dwindled
| hugely since the good old days)?
|

I stream Netflix on an RPi4. I don't remember the
details exactly. I think it used to require installing
Widevine for Chromium but I think now it's pre-installed.
There was someone online who provided an esoteric
installer for awhile. But I'm pretty sure that now there's no
special fiddling needed. Just make sure to update Chromium.

The only issue was that Widevine
wasn't provided for ARM CPUs. But I think that now it
is. It may even now be in Firefox on ARM, but Chromium
is probably a better bet. You can check into that.

I've been running it for years. In one room I
have Win7 with FF. In another room I have an RPi4 with
Chromium, plus a wireless keyboard/mouse. I pipe both of
them to a TV with HDMI. No problems. It's also nice for
the relative privacy. I don't connect either TV to the Internet.

We got the discs for years. I loved it. But then they started
cutting back on their stock. It got to where everything I
wanted to see was unavailable. The streaming has gone
downhill the same way. And of course, the streaming selection
never was very good. I often just can't find anything that
I want to see. I get more DVDs from the local library than
movies on Netflix. It's mostly crap, dumb TV series, Korean
TV (?)... whatever they can get cheap. Plus their own
productions, which are mostly crap.

But it's not entirely Netflix's fault. Several companies are
trying to take over streaming and refuse to release their
movies. If it's Paramount+ it will show up at the library, but
never on Netflix. AppleTV? You'll need to subscribe to that.
Disney? You probably need to subscribe to Disney. Amazon
has a lot, but much of it is expensive. (I saw Tar at a friend's
house on Amazon. $20!) Netflix can't get any of that stuff,
because the other companies are competing with them.

Netflix is cheap and sometimes OK. So we keep it. I don't
do business with Amazon. I would never buy anything from Apple.
And I don't appreciate those other 2-bit companies trying to
force me to buy their subscription. It's just not worth it. But
I do sacrifice. For example, Jennifer Lawrence's new movie,
Causeway. It's on AppleTV. So I'll likely never see it. I'm surprised
that good actors like that are willing to go to the trouble to be
limited by streaming lock-in.

Anyway, long story short, yes it works. It might be worth it
for the cheap price. But don't get your hopes up... Also, there's
a very handy extension for FF. Probably for Chrome, too. I can't think
of the name of it offhand, but it gives you IMDB and RottenTomatoes
ratings on Netflix. Very handy. You can set the minimum rating. So,
for example, say you set movies to 6.5. The extension will look up
movies, almost instantly, and show ratings only for movies that meet
your criteria or above. Each movie listing will show something like, say,
a yellow 6.5 (IMDB) and a red 71 (RT). Or there will be no rating if
the movie or show doesn't rank high enough. That saves a lot of work
because Netflix stuffs their selection with absolute crap they can get
for cheap. With the ratings you can visually filter what's worth
checking out.

Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
f> On 23/04/2023 05:29, scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
>> TBH, it's used more for Plex,
>> SiriusXM, and YouTube (via Invidious) than Prime Video. It's plugged into a
>> 55" TV, and I have no complaints about video quality.
>>
> Is that at 4K?

1080p. The TV's about 12 years old and still works like a champ...haven't
seen any reason to replace it.

--
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>
> We got the discs for years. I loved it. But then they started
> cutting back on their stock. It got to where everything I
> wanted to see was unavailable. The streaming has gone
> downhill the same way. And of course, the streaming selection
> never was very good. I often just can't find anything that
> I want to see. I get more DVDs from the local library than
> movies on Netflix. It's mostly crap, dumb TV series, Korean
> TV (?)... whatever they can get cheap. Plus their own
> productions, which are mostly crap.
>

Ok, so the Pi works for streaming netflix, but there's still
little to see.....8-(

I too have noticed the shrinking selection in disks and really
hoped the trend might be reversed by switching to streaming,
not least because the disks are going away. It's become real
work to keep a one-at-a-time disk queue from going dry, sounds
like it'll be worse with streaming.

I may try streaming, but am much less sure than I was.

Thank you for writing!

bob prohaska

"bob prohaska" <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote

| I may try streaming, but am much less sure than I was.
|

It's frustrating. There are so many streaming companies now,
and they all want to restrict their stock to their service. On the
bright side, one-screen-at-a-time service on Netfix at 720p
is only $10/month. Last night I watched the John Mulaney
stand up that just came out. You can find lists online to give
you an idea of what they have. There are "What's on Netflix"
websites. (Our TVs are only 720p anyway, and frankly I don't
care about 1080 or 4K. We used to have a CRT and I didn't
notice the difference between that and 720. The picture is
fine for my aging eyes.) Two streams at 1080 is $15.50.

Another option, if you live someplace with a good library, is
two other services: Hoopla and Kanopy. I sometimes watch things
on Hoopla. It's not a big selection, but there are some interesting
things like Tibetan or Arabic movies. And mamby pamby stuff
like Sleepless in Seattle. Kanopy has more, but their website
gave me trouble with my password at one point and I haven't
had motivation to get it fixed. If your local library has one or
both of those you can stream for free. The library pays. And it
works through the browser.

I can't see where this is all going. Will people end up paying
$80/month for 7 different services? Not me. But
I have a good library for DVD selection. Most people don't.

Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "bob prohaska" <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote
>
> | I may try streaming, but am much less sure than I was.
> |
>
>
> Another option, if you live someplace with a good library, is
> two other services: Hoopla and Kanopy.

I have a decent library a couple blocks away. Their webside doesn't
seem to recognize either Hoopla or Kanopy as streaming services.

The library does appear to have DVDs, maybe that's worth exploring.

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska