RetroBBS - comp.sys.raspberry-pi - Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mo01@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 16:20:09 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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by: Marco Moock - Sun, 5 Feb 2023 15:20 UTC

Hallo,
I bought the following board:

bootloader: a5e1b95f
board: b03111 2cde1136

I created an USB flash with Debian for RPi 4, but it doesn't boot. It
tries to find the SD card (I don't have on). Is it possible to switch
on USB booting without having an SD card?
It offers TFTP booting, I could set up a TFTP server and DHCP.
Is it possible to boot via TFTP without the SD card?

--
Gruß
Marco

Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 15:36:08 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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by: The Natural Philosop - Sun, 5 Feb 2023 15:36 UTC

On 05/02/2023 15:20, Marco Moock wrote:
> Hallo,
> I bought the following board:
>
> bootloader: a5e1b95f
> board: b03111 2cde1136
>
> I created an USB flash with Debian for RPi 4, but it doesn't boot. It
> tries to find the SD card (I don't have on). Is it possible to switch
> on USB booting without having an SD card?
I believe it should work on a USB 2 port without need for an SD card.

> It offers TFTP booting, I could set up a TFTP server and DHCP.
> Is it possible to boot via TFTP without the SD card?
>
I have no idea.

--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

<slrnttvpj2.4ki.jj@iridium.wf32df>

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From: jj@franjam.org.uk (Jim Jackson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 17:24:50 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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by: Jim Jackson - Sun, 5 Feb 2023 17:24 UTC

On 2023-02-05, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
> Hallo,
> I bought the following board:
>
> bootloader: a5e1b95f
> board: b03111 2cde1136
>
> I created an USB flash with Debian for RPi 4, but it doesn't boot. It
> tries to find the SD card (I don't have on). Is it possible to switch
> on USB booting without having an SD card?
> It offers TFTP booting, I could set up a TFTP server and DHCP.
> Is it possible to boot via TFTP without the SD card?

My advice is always to try booting in the most supported way first -
that is with PiOS on an SD card. That proves the Pi works. I've had a
duff Pi4 board. I got it replaced.

Move on after that.

Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

<trqdf0$30d1a$1@dont-email.me>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tumppiw@gmail.com (tumppiw)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2023 10:23:58 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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by: tumppiw - Mon, 6 Feb 2023 08:23 UTC

The Natural Philosopher kirjoitti 5.2.2023 klo 17.36:
> On 05/02/2023 15:20, Marco Moock wrote:
>> Hallo,
>> I bought the following board:
>>
>> bootloader: a5e1b95f
>> board: b03111 2cde1136
>>
>> I created an USB flash with Debian for RPi 4, but it doesn't boot. It
>> tries to find the SD card (I don't have on). Is it possible to switch
>> on USB booting without having an SD card?
> I believe it should work on a USB 2 port without need for an SD card.

Boots fine from USB3 also
>
>> It offers TFTP booting, I could set up a TFTP server and DHCP.
>> Is it possible to boot via TFTP without the SD card?
>>
> I have no idea.
>

How to Boot Raspberry Pi 4 / 400 From a USB SSD or Flash Drive
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/boot-raspberry-pi-4-usb

--
-----------------------------------------------------
Thomas Wendell
Helsinki, Finland
Translation to/from FI/SWE not always accurate
-----------------------------------------------------

Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

<trqidt$2v9rv$9@dont-email.me>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mo01@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2023 10:48:45 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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by: Marco Moock - Mon, 6 Feb 2023 09:48 UTC

Am 06.02.2023 um 10:23:58 Uhr schrieb tumppiw:

> How to Boot Raspberry Pi 4 / 400 From a USB SSD or Flash Drive
> https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/boot-raspberry-pi-4-usb

Although that article only show a method that needs an SD card - I
currently don't have one.

Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

<rtp1uhtfo2lr5vl6sgoevsgh0rhg9gnk3j@4ax.com>

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From: none@nowhere.whereo (Joe)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2023 11:45:12 +0000
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by: Joe - Mon, 6 Feb 2023 11:45 UTC

On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 16:20:09 +0100, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:

>Hallo,
>I bought the following board:
>
>bootloader: a5e1b95f
>board: b03111 2cde1136
>
>I created an USB flash with Debian for RPi 4, but it doesn't boot. It
>tries to find the SD card (I don't have on). Is it possible to switch
>on USB booting without having an SD card?
>It offers TFTP booting, I could set up a TFTP server and DHCP.
>Is it possible to boot via TFTP without the SD card?

Mine "cat /sys/firmware/devicetree/base/model" says Pi4 Model B, rev 1.5 booted straight from SSD on USB-3 port. Created bootable
SSD (Samsung T7) with Raspberry pi imager. Al my other pi (4's and some 3's) work the same.

Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mo01@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2023 15:03:14 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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by: Marco Moock - Mon, 6 Feb 2023 14:03 UTC

Am 06.02.2023 um 11:45:12 Uhr schrieb Joe:

> Created bootable SSD (Samsung T7) with Raspberry pi imager

I also did that, it still tries to boot from SD card.

My other Pi 3 B did directly boot from USB without modification.

Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

<sm0pmalrcn0.fsf@lakka.kapsi.fi>

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From: as@sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2023 12:30:27 +0200
Organization: An impatient and LOUD arachnid
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by: Anssi Saari - Tue, 7 Feb 2023 10:30 UTC

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> writes:

> I created an USB flash with Debian for RPi 4, but it doesn't boot. It
> tries to find the SD card (I don't have on). Is it possible to switch
> on USB booting without having an SD card?

Might be difficult. AFAIK, The inability to boot from USB might be due
to bootloader being too old or boot order set to something not including
USB boot. Kinda need to boot Linux from SD to fix either. Assuming it
actually boots from SD, since as far as you've said, it's never booted
from anything?

> It offers TFTP booting, I could set up a TFTP server and DHCP.
> Is it possible to boot via TFTP without the SD card?

I guess it depends on what you mean by "it offers"? Again AFAIK, network
boot is one option in the boot order. If enabled then it should work if
you have the servers running.

Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 10:46:51 +0000
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by: The Natural Philosop - Tue, 7 Feb 2023 10:46 UTC

On 07/02/2023 10:30, Anssi Saari wrote:
> Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> writes:
>
>> I created an USB flash with Debian for RPi 4, but it doesn't boot. It
>> tries to find the SD card (I don't have on). Is it possible to switch
>> on USB booting without having an SD card?
>
> Might be difficult. AFAIK, The inability to boot from USB might be due
> to bootloader being too old or boot order set to something not including
> USB boot. Kinda need to boot Linux from SD to fix either. Assuming it
> actually boots from SD, since as far as you've said, it's never booted
> from anything?
>
>> It offers TFTP booting, I could set up a TFTP server and DHCP.
>> Is it possible to boot via TFTP without the SD card?
>
> I guess it depends on what you mean by "it offers"? Again AFAIK, network
> boot is one option in the boot order. If enabled then it should work if
> you have the servers running.

Does a PI have some sort of flash RAM in it then that can emulate BIOS
NVRAM?

I cant recall ever being able to do any of this except via the boot
partition files on the SD card.

I assumed that USB disk boot was 'burned in' to the firmware.

--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

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From: mo01@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 12:40:31 +0100
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by: Marco Moock - Tue, 7 Feb 2023 11:40 UTC

Am 07.02.2023 um 12:30:27 Uhr schrieb Anssi Saari:

> Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> writes:
>
> > I created an USB flash with Debian for RPi 4, but it doesn't boot.
> > It tries to find the SD card (I don't have on). Is it possible to
> > switch on USB booting without having an SD card?
>
> Might be difficult. AFAIK, The inability to boot from USB might be due
> to bootloader being too old or boot order set to something not
> including USB boot. Kinda need to boot Linux from SD to fix either.
> Assuming it actually boots from SD, since as far as you've said, it's
> never booted from anything?

I bought it used on eBay. I never managed it to boot into an operating
system.

> > It offers TFTP booting, I could set up a TFTP server and DHCP.
> > Is it possible to boot via TFTP without the SD card?
>
> I guess it depends on what you mean by "it offers"? Again AFAIK,
> network boot is one option in the boot order. If enabled then it
> should work if you have the servers running.

I see options for DHCPv4 (including TFTP server address etc.) when I
switch it on, but it doesn't seem to use DHCPv4 (I have it, but no DNS
and no TFP options set).

Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

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From: theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card
Date: 07 Feb 2023 16:14:59 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
Message-ID: <JJl*a5j+y@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
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by: Theo - Tue, 7 Feb 2023 16:14 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Does a PI have some sort of flash RAM in it then that can emulate BIOS
> NVRAM?

Pi 4 has EEPROM which contains the boot firmware. If you can boot it (with
an SD card perhaps) you can update the EEPROM to the latest version.

I'd guess some of the NVRAM settings can be written to the EEPROM, but not
sure what does.

> I assumed that USB disk boot was 'burned in' to the firmware.

Pi 3 doesn't have an EEPROM. Some (but not all) versions of them have USB
boot available in their revision of the boot ROM, and you can blow an e-fuse
to (irreversibly) enable it.

Theo

Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

<trtu69$3qeag$2@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 16:27:53 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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by: The Natural Philosop - Tue, 7 Feb 2023 16:27 UTC

On 07/02/2023 16:14, Theo wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Does a PI have some sort of flash RAM in it then that can emulate BIOS
>> NVRAM?
>
> Pi 4 has EEPROM which contains the boot firmware. If you can boot it (with
> an SD card perhaps) you can update the EEPROM to the latest version.
>
> I'd guess some of the NVRAM settings can be written to the EEPROM, but not
> sure what does.
>
Hang on..NVRAM *is* EEPROM...

>> I assumed that USB disk boot was 'burned in' to the firmware.
>
> Pi 3 doesn't have an EEPROM. Some (but not all) versions of them have USB
> boot available in their revision of the boot ROM, and you can blow an e-fuse
> to (irreversibly) enable it.
>
Wow. Bit burn-your-bridges, that.

> Theo

--
WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

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From: theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject: Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card
Date: 08 Feb 2023 11:22:00 +0000 (GMT)
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by: Theo - Wed, 8 Feb 2023 11:22 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 07/02/2023 16:14, Theo wrote:
> > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> Does a PI have some sort of flash RAM in it then that can emulate BIOS
> >> NVRAM?
> >
> > Pi 4 has EEPROM which contains the boot firmware. If you can boot it (with
> > an SD card perhaps) you can update the EEPROM to the latest version.
> >
> > I'd guess some of the NVRAM settings can be written to the EEPROM, but not
> > sure what does.
> >
> Hang on..NVRAM *is* EEPROM...

NVRAM is a high level concept. The implementation can be EEPROM, flash,
FERAM, MRAM, battery-backed SRAM, memristors...

The RPi folks call it EEPROM. I haven't checked the part to confirm if it's
actually EEPROM or some other tech.

(these days flash is generally cheaper than EEPROM, especially if you don't
need single-byte write capability)

> >> I assumed that USB disk boot was 'burned in' to the firmware.
> >
> > Pi 3 doesn't have an EEPROM. Some (but not all) versions of them have USB
> > boot available in their revision of the boot ROM, and you can blow an e-fuse
> > to (irreversibly) enable it.
> >
> Wow. Bit burn-your-bridges, that.

It's not so bad because it's a priority order. Normally boot just goes
straight to the SD. If you enable USB boot, it tries that first before
trying the SD. It's basically like your BIOS boot-order setting that you
can only change once. Unless you're in the habit of having bootable drives
in both SD and USB slots at the same time it shouldn't matter.

Theo

Measure twice, cut once.

computers / comp.sys.raspberry-pi / Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card

Subject	Author
RPi 4 USB boot without SD card	Marco Moock
Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card	The Natural Philosopher
Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card	tumppiw
Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card	Marco Moock
Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card	Jim Jackson
Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card	Joe
Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card	Marco Moock
Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card	Anssi Saari
Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card	The Natural Philosopher
Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card	Theo
Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card	The Natural Philosopher
Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card	Theo
Re: RPi 4 USB boot without SD card	Marco Moock