Hello All!

Is it not about time that Mageia fell in to line with some other distros by
offering a five year LTS (Long Term Supported) version of the latest
version then fully supporting it for a minimum of five years in parallel
with what ever the current rolling version. This way users including
myself would not have to delay upgrades until the last possible moment and
even then have to spend WEEKS if not months getting their system fully
operational.

Many of us use the distro on productions systems even if these are at home
and I really have better things to do with my time than having to fix a new
broken system that was working perfectly fine before the so called update.

Enough is enough !!

I am getting real close to move away from Mageia to one of the other
distros that does support the LTS processes. This will also apply to all
other systems that use Mageia having converted one test system over and
no, I would prefer not to do this but having broken system because of a
upgrade is just a waste of every ones time and time is money. Even more so
when you are getting on a bit (76).

Vincent

On 12/31/23 08:30, Vincent Coen wrote:
> Hello All!
>
> Is it not about time that Mageia fell in to line with some other distros by
> offering a five year LTS (Long Term Supported) version of the latest
> version then fully supporting it for a minimum of five years in parallel
> with what ever the current rolling version. This way users including
> myself would not have to delay upgrades until the last possible moment and
> even then have to spend WEEKS if not months getting their system fully
> operational.
>
> Many of us use the distro on productions systems even if these are at home
> and I really have better things to do with my time than having to fix a new
> broken system that was working perfectly fine before the so called update.
>
> Enough is enough !!
>
> I am getting real close to move away from Mageia to one of the other
> distros that does support the LTS processes. This will also apply to all
> other systems that use Mageia having converted one test system over and
> no, I would prefer not to do this but having broken system because of a
> upgrade is just a waste of every ones time and time is money. Even more so
> when you are getting on a bit (76).
>
>
>
> Vincent

It may sound good to have LTS and if people must use a 'buntu or
derivative but when that LTS comes to an end you may have the sort of
problems that you do when Mageia or its predecessor Mandriva presented
for all the time that it lasted. You may think that it would solve
problems but it may not instead presenting you with uncomfortable
choices. A Rolling Release that is competently curated as is the
one I use is a better choice and Mageia would be advised to go that
way instead of trying to reinvent the wheel or might better be to
say reinvent the clockwork every year or so or even every 5 years
or so. Frequently people who upgrade on the LTS find that it does
not work properly. I know that is a problem that 'buntu users
seem to have quite often. Mandriva 2011 would not run on my
hardware and I could get no competent assistance having paid
for my copy.

Just my opinion after 30 years or so of computer use and
18 years of GNU/Linux use.

Don't neglect doing backups of OS and of data frequently and if you
decide to put the backups on USB Flash Drives here is a article
evaluating the choices:
<https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-flash-drives>

bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2023.11- Linux 6.5.13- Plasma 5.27.10
Wishing all who use any GNU/Linux a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New
Year in 2024!

On 1/1/24 03:30, Vincent Coen wrote:
> Hello All!
>
> Is it not about time that Mageia fell in to line with some other distros by
> offering a five year LTS (Long Term Supported) version of the latest
> version then fully supporting it for a minimum of five years in parallel
> with what ever the current rolling version. This way users including
> myself would not have to delay upgrades until the last possible moment and
> even then have to spend WEEKS if not months getting their system fully
> operational.

I was mulling over the same thing. Then I realized I had a spare
partition along with MGA6-8. MGA6 is still there because that's the only
disto where dvdstyler still works and I do author the very occasional disk.
I have spare backup MGA8 partition, never used.
I could install MGA9 there and "modify" it at leisure while still having
access to current MGA8.
The new year is looking up

--
Running KDE on x86_64 5.15.126-desktop-1.mga8
Mageia release 8

Hello Bobbie!

Sunday December 31 2023 18:08, Bobbie Sellers wrote to All:

All well and good saying do a backup but I have had issues in the past with
this :

On my main system Mga v8 and now v9 I run two rsync processes, one for the
boot drive nd the other for the /home area (it is on a different
drive / partition).

How ever a few years back I had a need to do a restore and on rebooting it
failed.

For your and any others interest this is the back up scripts for each one
and if you can spot the problem please let me know :

Boot drive script :-

#!/bin/bash
time rsync -avvuhh --stats --delete --exclude=/dev --exclude=/proc
--exclude=/mnt --exclude=/run --exclude=/tmp --exclude=/home
--exclude=/media --exclude=/sys / /home/vince/Music2/Backups/SSD-Mageia-v9
> rsync-root.log 2>rsync-root.err
exit 0

Home partition script :-

#!/bin/bash
time rsync -avvuhh --stats --delete --exclude=/home/vince/Music2 /home
/home/vince/Music2/Backups > rsync-home.log 2>rsync-home.err
exit 0

Out of interest here is my attempt to do a restore :

#!/bin/bash
time rsync -avvuhh --stats --delete --exclude=/dev --exclude=/proc
--exclude=/mnt --exclude=/run --exclude=/tmp --exclude=/home
--exclude=/media --exclude=/sys
/home/vince/Music2/Backups/SSD-Mageia-v9/ /mnt/disk1 >
rsync-restore-root.log 2 > rsync-restore-root.err
exit 0

Note that although the restore has been changed to reflect the new MGA v9
distro (SSD-Mageia-v9-HDD) I have not run it.

In the past I have attempted to do it using other tools but without
success.

Just to let you know - I have been in computing (Operator, Analyst /
Programmer, Program Leader, Tester, Test Leader, Manager, IT Manager, IT
Director since 1963+ starting on IBM 1401, 7094, ICL 1900's, 29 & 39
series, IBM 360,370 and later, as well as other kit from Burroughs,
Honeywell, CDC and many others including mini's and starting with micros
around 1974/5 running my own company dealing with micros starting with
CPM, MPM, OS/2 and on and upwards. These days I am well retired working on
one of my old Accounting applications written in Cobol that I have made
available as open source. I suffer from being now the only person doing the
work of a (small) team so it is slow allowing for writing / updating the
many documentation / manuals etc, as well.

> Reply-To: blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com

> On 12/31/23 08:30, Vincent Coen wrote:
>> Hello All!
>>
>> Is it not about time that Mageia fell in to line with some other
>> distros by offering a five year LTS (Long Term Supported) version of
>> the latest version then fully supporting it for a minimum of five
>> years in parallel with what ever the current rolling version. This
>> way users including myself would not have to delay upgrades until
>> the last possible moment and even then have to spend WEEKS if not
>> months getting their system fully operational.
>>
>> Many of us use the distro on productions systems even if these are
>> at home and I really have better things to do with my time than
>> having to fix a new broken system that was working perfectly fine
>> before the so called update.
>>
>> Enough is enough !!
>>
>> I am getting real close to move away from Mageia to one of the other
>> distros that does support the LTS processes. This will also apply to
>> all other systems that use Mageia having converted one test system
>> over and no, I would prefer not to do this but having broken system
>> because of a upgrade is just a waste of every ones time and time is
>> money. Even more so when you are getting on a bit (76).
>>
>>
>>
>> Vincent

> It may sound good to have LTS and if people must use a 'buntu or
> derivative but when that LTS comes to an end you may have the sort of
> problems that you do when Mageia or its predecessor Mandriva presented
> for all the time that it lasted. You may think that it would solve
> problems but it may not instead presenting you with uncomfortable
> choices. A Rolling Release that is competently curated as is the
> one I use is a better choice and Mageia would be advised to go that
> way instead of trying to reinvent the wheel or might better be to
> say reinvent the clockwork every year or so or even every 5 years
> or so. Frequently people who upgrade on the LTS find that it does
> not work properly. I know that is a problem that 'buntu users
> seem to have quite often. Mandriva 2011 would not run on my
> hardware and I could get no competent assistance having paid
> for my copy.

> Just my opinion after 30 years or so of computer use and
> 18 years of GNU/Linux use.

> Don't neglect doing backups of OS and of data frequently and if you
> decide to put the backups on USB Flash Drives here is a article
> evaluating the choices:
> <https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-flash-drives>

> bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2023.11- Linux 6.5.13- Plasma
> 5.27.10 Wishing all who use any GNU/Linux a Happy, Healthy and
> Prosperous New Year in 2024!

Vincent

On 2023-12-31 11:30, Vincent Coen wrote:
> Hello All!
>
> Is it not about time that Mageia fell in to line with some other distros by
> offering a five year LTS (Long Term Supported) version of the latest
> version then fully supporting it for a minimum of five years in parallel
> with what ever the current rolling version. This way users including
> myself would not have to delay upgrades until the last possible moment and
> even then have to spend WEEKS if not months getting their system fully
> operational.
>
> Many of us use the distro on productions systems even if these are at home
> and I really have better things to do with my time than having to fix a new
> broken system that was working perfectly fine before the so called update.
>
> Enough is enough !!
>
> I am getting real close to move away from Mageia to one of the other
> distros that does support the LTS processes. This will also apply to all
> other systems that use Mageia having converted one test system over and
> no, I would prefer not to do this but having broken system because of a
> upgrade is just a waste of every ones time and time is money. Even more so
> when you are getting on a bit (76).
>
>
>
> Vincent
>
>
I'm very sorry that your upgrade experience has not been what you would
like. Would that we had the resources to do what you would like, but we
simply do not.

I'm a farmer by trade, and I too use Mageia on my production systems,
mostly one desktop and two laptops, though I do have other systems that
could step in if need be. I use older hardware because it's what I can
afford, and my production needs are probably modest by most of today's
standards. I actually upgraded my production systems to Cauldron (then
Mageia 9) over a year ago, to give them some real-world testing before
release.

Yes, it's been a while now, but other than changes to Plasma introduced
by the Friendly Folks at KDE (NOT Mageia) I don't recall any serious
problems getting things up and going. No more than a couple of hours,
including the upgrade itself. There were minor troubles from time to
time afterward, but that's just the nature of Cauldron, as development
proceeds. Mageia is never to be considered stable while in Cauldron.

I kept some Mageia 8 systems around for the purpose of testing updates
while Mageia 8 was still supported. Now that Mageia 8 is officially EOL,
I've been upgrading them one by one. So far, zero issues with the
upgrades. Once they finish, the systems are ready to go.

Last week I did a major hardware upgrade of my production desktop,
different motherboard, processor 5 generations newer, tripling RAM, my
first experience with NVME SSDs, and a Nvidia video card. With such a
large hardware difference, I realized that using the old system might
work but might not, so I backed up /home and my other data by copying it
onto one of the new SSDs, but NOT the / partition. That I installed new,
using the netinstall iso so that I got all the updates in the process.

Afterward, the new system booted quickly, with no problems whatsoever.
This upgrade did take more time, as I had to re-install things that
weren't part of the basic install, like my HP printers and the software
tools I use as part of the Mageia QA team. Most of one afternoon, but
definitely not WEEKS.

I hope you've stayed with me this far, because here is where I tell you
that every system is different, and comparing my experience with yours
is not particularly valid. But my experience is the only one I can go
on, the only one I can use as I do my volunteer duties with QA.

It's the same with all the rest of us at Mageia, all volunteers who do
this in our spare time, with a limited variety of hardware and
configurations. It is impossible for us to anticipate all possible
situations, so we do the best we can with what we have. It would be even
more difficult to maintain a LTS release, as problems creep in during
its life.

BTW, my time is valuable too, as I am still farming full time, even
though I too "am getting on a bit." (74)

TJ

Hello faeychild!

Sunday December 31 2023 22:02, faeychild wrote to All:

> On 1/1/24 03:30, Vincent Coen wrote:
>> Hello All!
>>
>> Is it not about time that Mageia fell in to line with some other
>> distros by offering a five year LTS (Long Term Supported) version of
>> the latest version then fully supporting it for a minimum of five
>> years in parallel with what ever the current rolling version. This
>> way users including myself would not have to delay upgrades until
>> the last possible moment and even then have to spend WEEKS if not
>> months getting their system fully operational.

> I was mulling over the same thing. Then I realized I had a spare
> partition along with MGA6-8. MGA6 is still there because that's the
> only disto where dvdstyler still works and I do author the very
> occasional disk. I have spare backup MGA8 partition, never used. I
> could install MGA9 there and "modify" it at leisure while still having
> access to current MGA8. The new year is looking up

After the upgrade from v8 to v9 I have noticed that a large number of
packages including Perl one's were removed instead of upgrading or leaving
in place with zero warnings of such action and this has caused many issues
that some applications stop working (with non helpful messages if at all).

I am still trying to locate these despite running rpmlist.sh on both the
old v8 system pre-upgrade and that current v9 comparing the content. Here I
have managed to do all the perl, PHP, Ruby products but have had to skip
most of the lib and lib64 one's (although adding back in the missing
packages has repopulated the lib/lib64 areas to some extent re-comparing
the old and updated new v9 list still shows gaps so that I will try and
ignore these unless another issue appears.

Currently I notice that using Webmins mysql/mariadb back procedure on
a nightly process fails as the scheduler is disabled and cannot find out
where this occurs and how to fix it. Gioing through the Webmin process
it does not such an option oce the back process has been set up or for that
matter trying to do a one off back up.

For the moment that is the only failure at this time that I have spotted
other than thunderbird no longer reading my mail (as via mail) stored in
/usr/spool/mail - just complains that this folder is invalid woutout
letting me change it - assuming I knew how and what to :(

I dislike using the mail command from a terminal program as it is very
clunky but it does go back to year dot.

Vincent

Hello TJ!

Monday January 01 2024 14:05, TJ wrote to All:

> I'm very sorry that your upgrade experience has not been what you
> would like. Would that we had the resources to do what you would like,
> but we simply do not.

> I'm a farmer by trade, and I too use Mageia on my production systems,
> mostly one desktop and two laptops, though I do have other systems
> that could step in if need be. I use older hardware because it's what
> I can afford, and my production needs are probably modest by most of
> today's standards. I actually upgraded my production systems to
> Cauldron (then Mageia 9) over a year ago, to give them some real-world
> testing before release.

> Yes, it's been a while now, but other than changes to Plasma
> introduced by the Friendly Folks at KDE (NOT Mageia) I don't recall
> any serious problems getting things up and going. No more than a
> couple of hours, including the upgrade itself. There were minor
> troubles from time to time afterward, but that's just the nature of
> Cauldron, as development proceeds. Mageia is never to be considered
> stable while in Cauldron.

> I kept some Mageia 8 systems around for the purpose of testing updates
> while Mageia 8 was still supported. Now that Mageia 8 is officially
> EOL, I've been upgrading them one by one. So far, zero issues with the
> upgrades. Once they finish, the systems are ready to go.

> Last week I did a major hardware upgrade of my production desktop,
> different motherboard, processor 5 generations newer, tripling RAM, my
> first experience with NVME SSDs, and a Nvidia video card. With such a
> large hardware difference, I realized that using the old system might
> work but might not, so I backed up /home and my other data by copying
> it onto one of the new SSDs, but NOT the / partition. That I installed
> new, using the netinstall iso so that I got all the updates in the
> process.

> Afterward, the new system booted quickly, with no problems whatsoever.
> This upgrade did take more time, as I had to re-install things that
> weren't part of the basic install, like my HP printers and the
> software tools I use as part of the Mageia QA team. Most of one
> afternoon, but definitely not WEEKS.

> I hope you've stayed with me this far, because here is where I tell
> you that every system is different, and comparing my experience with
> yours is not particularly valid. But my experience is the only one I
> can go on, the only one I can use as I do my volunteer duties with QA.

> It's the same with all the rest of us at Mageia, all volunteers who do
> this in our spare time, with a limited variety of hardware and
> configurations. It is impossible for us to anticipate all possible
> situations, so we do the best we can with what we have. It would be
> even more difficult to maintain a LTS release, as problems creep in
> during its life.

> BTW, my time is valuable too, as I am still farming full time, even
> though I too "am getting on a bit." (74)

The biggest issue as far as I can see is that the upgrade did NOT update
ALL of the installed packages, most noticeable was the one's relating to
Perl modules and some PHP. The Ruby one's was also excluded but my use of
them as far as I "know" is very limited to put it mildly and like all three
used with packages that are used.

On my system that is at least 10 years old now running a Amd fx8350 cpu
that is recorded as a 8 core (Although when a program starts up in a odd
numbered core (such as 1) but then processes it in an even core (such as 2)
so the practical is a 4 core as far as I can tell.

Now The system also runs in the background a BBS and mailer that acts as a
major Host and Hub for mail and files to over 40+ other systems around the
world, with Apache as a web server, FTP via proftp (did try and use
pure-ftp but with very limited success), Mysql (OK mariadb - which is NOT
the same in some aspects and here you cannot remove mariadb and swap it out
with mysql as there are too many packages that require it and would have to
be removed - more later). Various programming tools including compilers
such as gcc, clang (when gcc produces excess error when compiling a
program), GnuCobol for development and testing of my Accounting s/w - ACAS
available via sourceforge), Mainframe s/w directly and indirectly available
mostly for my own use but was so I can work from home as a Freelance
programmer, and senior tester etc although that mostly has ended due to my
age.

For the web server (Apache) it uses a lot of Perl modules that have been
installed in order to run correctly and securely and here was the major rub
that the upgrade to v9 did not process them NOR provide warning that it
could not for what ever the reason was and this would have helped possibly
spot the issues before getting failure during various elements of the
software failing without direct warnings (like only in the log files and
not on the screen).

It does not help that many of such warnings goes to local mail (which can
be picked up by using the mail program but as I use Thunderbird, I had it
grab those every morning along with all my emails every 30 minutes.

Now since the upgrade along with a later version of Thunderbird this
function no longer works and I cannot find what is wrong and therefore how
to fix it. IT is these sort of funnies that are a right pain and even more
so as this is my production system.

These are the issues as of now that I have found and does not mean that
there are not others that I have not so far seen but no doubt will rear
their ugly head over time while still doing development, testing and
document writing of my accounting system which does date back to the 70 -
80's. This was a commercial product that was sold as a one off price or a
subscription model up to the late 90's / early 2000's but when I
technically retired decided to make it available to every one as a FOC so
that the work over many years was not wasted - OK, a lot of my effort :).

I should point out that having a very extensive background to working on a
large range of mainframes since the 60's I have come to be very slow in
doing any upgrades from one version to the next as I prefer to wait while
the bugs are found and fixed. Mainframe updates such as the O/S (Operating
System) which also includes all of the products also installed such as
compilers and in this case will involve testing all suites (applications)
currently in use or about the be so) to ensure nothing is now broken. This
takes up a lot of time by a team of anything from 5 to 20+ people over some
months and as I have only me that can not really happen so I let all the
other users of Mageia run and hopefully test and report bugs it it that are
show stoppers in a real world environment that basic testing would not show
up.

I like at least 6 months or better and even up to 12, subject to pucker
factor.

I do use LTS O/S distro's for my media recorder / player computer and
another that runs on a not now so often Raspberry Pi for off loading some
work from my main system as a JIC (Just In Case) basis.

Also in the mix is a Apple MAC Pro 2008 running twin 4 core Xeon CPU's that
is rarely used almost from day one and I must get around to selling it on
eBay as it was a major expenditure that is just not used. Hopefully this or
next month !

There is other kit such as a laptop (Win 11), notebook (baby laptop for
when I used to travel around running Win 10) and my wife's desktop, an 20
year old system running Win 10 (can't run 11 ditto with the notebook) and
my own system can also only Win 10 on the very odd event that I load it.

Vincent