I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440 and the other is
Intel® Core™ i7-6500U. Both computers are less that 5 years old.
Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
If not will these computers become unusable like my tablet which tries
to update every time it is connected to the web, or once MS decides a
computer is not upgrade able will they mark them not for upgrade and let
the computer continue to be used.
I lost my tablet when MS upgraded Windows from 180x to 190x. It is
unusable on the web because it still tries to upgrade, and crashes like
the first time it tried to update several dozen attempt before.

On 23/09/2021 23:33, knuttle wrote:
>
> I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440  and the other is
> Intel® Core™ i7-6500U.  Both computers are less that 5 years old.
>
> Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
>
> If not will these computers become unusable like my tablet which tries
> to update every time it is connected to the web, or once MS decides a
> computer is not upgrade able will they mark them not for upgrade and let
> the computer continue to be used.
>
> I lost my tablet when MS upgraded Windows from 180x to 190x.  It is
> unusable on the web because it still tries to upgrade, and crashes like
> the first time it tried to update several dozen attempt before.

Nobody knows yet.
Microsoft appear to either be incapable of properly explaining what
they're going to do or they keep changing their mind.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On 2021 Sep 23, knuttle wrote
(in article <siivbg$uoa$1@dont-email.me>):

>
> I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440 and the other is
> Intel® Core™ i7-6500U. Both computers are less that 5 years old.
>
> Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?

probably not. it seems that the hard floor is 8th gen CPUs.

None of the Windows machines at home have better than 6th gen. I, personally,
will not be moving to Win 11.

>
>
> If not will these computers become unusable

no. I have machines running XP. They still work.

> like my tablet which tries
> to update every time it is connected to the web,

which tablet is that?

> or once MS decides a
> computer is not upgrade able will they mark them not for upgrade and let
> the computer continue to be used.

there are several ways to turn off auto upgrades. Google is your friend.

>
>
> I lost my tablet when MS upgraded Windows from 180x to 190x. It is
> unusable on the web because it still tries to upgrade,

turn off the auto upgrade. Simplest method: this is a tablet. It connects, if
it’s like almost all other tablets, wirelessly. Set updates to not run on a
metered connection, and set your wireless to show as a metered connect. No
more updates.

> and crashes like
> the first time it tried to update several dozen attempt before.

On 9/23/21 5:33 PM, knuttle wrote:
>
> I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440  and the other is
> Intel® Core™ i7-6500U.  Both computers are less that 5 years old.
>
> Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
>
> If not will these computers become unusable like my tablet which tries
> to update every time it is connected to the web, or once MS decides a
> computer is not upgrade able will they mark them not for upgrade and let
> the computer continue to be used.
>
> I lost my tablet when MS upgraded Windows from 180x to 190x.  It is
> unusable on the web because it still tries to upgrade, and crashes like
> the first time it tried to update several dozen attempt before.

I have been on the Windows Insider channel and for Win11, I have been
evaluating it ever since it was released.

In short; You *might* be able to sneak by on a non-approved CPU of Gen 7
but any less and it just will not work.

Neither of your CPU's are even close.

I'm pretty sure neither are under five years old either unless the mfg
was really skimping.

philo wrote:
> On 9/23/21 5:33 PM, knuttle wrote:
>>
>> I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440 and the other is
>> Intel® Core™ i7-6500U. Both computers are less that 5 years old.
>>
>> Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
>>
>> If not will these computers become unusable like my tablet which tries
>> to update every time it is connected to the web, or once MS decides a
>> computer is not upgrade able will they mark them not for upgrade and
>> let the computer continue to be used.
>>
>> I lost my tablet when MS upgraded Windows from 180x to 190x. It is
>> unusable on the web because it still tries to upgrade, and crashes
>> like the first time it tried to update several dozen attempt before.
>
>
>
> I have been on the Windows Insider channel and for Win11, I have been
> evaluating it ever since it was released.
>
> In short; You *might* be able to sneak by on a non-approved CPU of Gen 7
> but any less and it just will not work.
>
>
> Neither of your CPU's are even close.
>
> I'm pretty sure neither are under five years old either unless the mfg
> was really skimping.

The Insider Release is hardly fit for evaluation of policy.
The W11 I installed as an Insider, it ran on a PC it should
not run on. This means I was suckered -- I've been mislead
by something that will not run on October 5.

My crib notes as a picture:

https://i.postimg.cc/3wF63qQZ/check-for-W11.gif

Download this to test your Win10 PC for usage with Win11:

https://download.microsoft.com/download/1/5/e/15eb8516-6a35-4c70-8897-6cb4b5b4efd6/3.0/x64/WindowsPCHealthCheckSetup.msi

Why is it an MSI ?

Presumably so they can count how many people installed it.

Also, the MSI checks and would not, say, install on your
WinXP OS.

Paul

On 2021-09-23 8:14 p.m., 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
> On 23/09/2021 23:33, knuttle wrote:
>>
>> I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440 and the other is
>> Intel® Core™ i7-6500U. Both computers are less that 5 years old.
>>
>> Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
>>
>>
> Have you tried to use Microsoft's Health checker on those computers? Can
> you do that on your own or do you need help on that as well?

LOL!

--
@RabidHussar
Proud LibreOffice & Thunderbird
Pure blood
Supporter of independent journalism
John 15:18

On 9/23/21 7:55 PM, Paul wrote:
> philo wrote:
>> On 9/23/21 5:33 PM, knuttle wrote:
>>>
>>> I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440  and the other is
>>> Intel® Core™ i7-6500U.  Both computers are less that 5 years old.
>>>
>>> Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
>>>
>>> If not will these computers become unusable like my tablet which
>>> tries to update every time it is connected to the web, or once MS
>>> decides a computer is not upgrade able will they mark them not for
>>> upgrade and let the computer continue to be used.
>>>
>>> I lost my tablet when MS upgraded Windows from 180x to 190x.  It is
>>> unusable on the web because it still tries to upgrade, and crashes
>>> like the first time it tried to update several dozen attempt before.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been on the Windows Insider channel and for Win11, I have been
>> evaluating it ever since it was released.
>>
>> In short; You *might* be able to sneak by on a non-approved CPU of Gen
>> 7 but any less and it just will not work.
>>
>>
>> Neither of your CPU's are even close.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure neither are under five years old either unless the mfg
>> was really skimping.
>
> The Insider Release is hardly fit for evaluation of policy.
> The W11 I installed as an Insider, it ran on a PC it should
> not run on. This means I was suckered -- I've been mislead
> by something that will not run on October 5.
>
> My crib notes as a picture:
>
>    https://i.postimg.cc/3wF63qQZ/check-for-W11.gif
>
> Download this to test your Win10 PC for usage with Win11:
>
>
> https://download.microsoft.com/download/1/5/e/15eb8516-6a35-4c70-8897-6cb4b5b4efd6/3.0/x64/WindowsPCHealthCheckSetup.msi
>
>
> Why is it an MSI ?
>
> Presumably so they can count how many people installed it.
>
> Also, the MSI checks and would not, say, install on your
> WinXP OS.
>
>    Paul

Oh, I went off the /dev channel and moved to the release version.

Though there is no telling for sure whether or not my gen7 CPU will
continue working.

The OP's gen4 and gen6 I am quite sure will not even allow an install.

On 9/23/2021 9:07 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-23 8:14 p.m., 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>> On 23/09/2021 23:33, knuttle wrote:
>>>
>>> I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440 and the other is
>>> Intel® Core™ i7-6500U. Both computers are less that 5 years old.
>>>
>>> Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
>>>
>>>
>> Have you tried to use Microsoft's Health checker on those computers?
>> Can you do that on your own or do you need help on that as well?
>
> LOL!
>
>
I just ran the MS Health check. It said that the CPU was capable of
doing everything need to run Windows 11 except the processor was too
old. Item #1 in the list of requirements
I wonder how many people on the MS staff are to old.

On 2021 Sep 23, philo wrote
(in article <sij0qm$769$1@dont-email.me>):

> On 9/23/21 5:33 PM, knuttle wrote:
> >
> > I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440 and the other is
> > Intel® Core™ i7-6500U. Both computers are less that 5 years old.
> >
> > Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
> >
> > If not will these computers become unusable like my tablet which tries
> > to update every time it is connected to the web, or once MS decides a
> > computer is not upgrade able will they mark them not for upgrade and let
> > the computer continue to be used.
> >
> > I lost my tablet when MS upgraded Windows from 180x to 190x. It is
> > unusable on the web because it still tries to upgrade, and crashes like
> > the first time it tried to update several dozen attempt before.
>
> I have been on the Windows Insider channel and for Win11, I have been
> evaluating it ever since it was released.
>
> In short; You *might* be able to sneak by on a non-approved CPU of Gen 7
> but any less and it just will not work.
>
> Neither of your CPU's are even close.
>
> I'm pretty sure neither are under five years old either unless the mfg
> was really skimping.

You _do_ know that it is still possible to buy 4th and even 3rd generation
CPUs, and motherboards which work with them, from Newegg and similar? This
guy here:

Intel Core i5-3570 - Core i5 3rd Gen Ivy Bridge Quad-Core 3.4GHz (3.8GHz
Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 77W Intel HD Graphics 2500 Desktop Processor -
BX80637i53570

is $63 at Newegg... There are _swarms_ of cheap machines for sale from 2nd
and 3rd tier vendors which have 4th, 5th, 6th gen CPUs...

On 9/23/2021 9:20 PM, Wolffan wrote:
> On 2021 Sep 23, philo wrote
> (in article <sij0qm$769$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 9/23/21 5:33 PM, knuttle wrote:
>>>
>>> I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440 and the other is
>>> Intel® Core™ i7-6500U. Both computers are less that 5 years old.
>>>
>>> Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
>>>
>>> If not will these computers become unusable like my tablet which tries
>>> to update every time it is connected to the web, or once MS decides a
>>> computer is not upgrade able will they mark them not for upgrade and let
>>> the computer continue to be used.
>>>
>>> I lost my tablet when MS upgraded Windows from 180x to 190x. It is
>>> unusable on the web because it still tries to upgrade, and crashes like
>>> the first time it tried to update several dozen attempt before.
>>
>> I have been on the Windows Insider channel and for Win11, I have been
>> evaluating it ever since it was released.
>>
>> In short; You *might* be able to sneak by on a non-approved CPU of Gen 7
>> but any less and it just will not work.
>>
>> Neither of your CPU's are even close.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure neither are under five years old either unless the mfg
>> was really skimping.
>
> You _do_ know that it is still possible to buy 4th and even 3rd generation
> CPUs, and motherboards which work with them, from Newegg and similar? This
> guy here:
>
> Intel Core i5-3570 - Core i5 3rd Gen Ivy Bridge Quad-Core 3.4GHz (3.8GHz
> Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 77W Intel HD Graphics 2500 Desktop Processor -
> BX80637i53570
>
> is $63 at Newegg... There are _swarms_ of cheap machines for sale from 2nd
> and 3rd tier vendors which have 4th, 5th, 6th gen CPUs...
>
It is interesting the MS is doing this. Industry is going to be very
reluctant to replace a four year old computer just because MS says it is
obsolete.
If MS follows through with this computer purge, I suspect we will see a
return to the situation that existed when Windows 10 came out. At that
time there was a percentage of computers still running DOS, a large
percentage running 98, a greater percentage running XP. It took years
for Windows 10 to gain a larger share of the market than Windows 7.
Personally I never owned a Windows 7 computer, I continued to use XP
until my computers died and I was forced to buy a computers with Windows
10.
Note we still have newsgroups for Windows 98, Windows XP and Window 7
and it has been 10 years since they were replaced. and you can still buy
parts and software for some of them. As I remember Windows 7 was
supported for years after it was suppose to be killed off.
I wonder why MS decided to go back to the jungle of many Windows
version. I worked a one company years after Windows 10 cam out that was
still running Windows 7 on all of their computers.

knuttle wrote:

> I wonder why MS decided to go back to the jungle of many Windows
> version. I worked a one company years after Windows 10 cam out that was
> still running Windows 7 on all of their computers.

Believe it or not, it costs good money, to change OS versions.

And Windows 11 is not finished.

Windows 11 is about as ready as Vista was.

Windows 10 still has its Control Panels, and a
confused path back and forth through the Settings
panel to get to the System control panel. And it's
only been six fucking years ??? What is this ?

The product sells itself.

How many Control Panels are in Windows 11 ???

And I like Control Panels, but for God sake,
shit or get off the pot.

Now you know why Windows 7 is on the machines.
A consistent design, and amounting to a tested
version of Vista. "It's our best OS yet" :-/

Paul

Paul wrote:
> Download this to test your Win10 PC for usage with Win11:
>
>
> https://download.microsoft.com/download/1/5/e/15eb8516-6a35-4c70-8897-6cb4b5b4efd6/3.0/x64/WindowsPCHealthCheckSetup.msi
>
>
> Why is it an MSI ?
>
> Presumably so they can count how many people installed it.
>
> Also, the MSI checks and would not, say, install on your
> WinXP OS.
>
>    Paul

Beyond the counting # of installs(i.e. phone home) <g>

Maybe it's an MSI because they've been using MSI files instead of exe
files for internal software development for some time.
Easier for devs and design intent to allow the installation to complete
with on-demand purposes allowing it to prompt for an update if a later
version is released(when an earlier version is being installed or already
present)

Even so, it's still go beyond what and end-user needs to check Win11
compatibility.
Lol...how many end-users running a Win11 check tool are going to use it
to 'Rename a Pc', or bridge/link to other Windows features like 'manage'
OneDrive folder backup for the user profile's Desktop, Documents and Pictures.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤n

knuttle wrote:
> On 9/23/2021 9:20 PM, Wolffan wrote:
>> You _do_ know that it is still possible to buy 4th and even 3rd generation
>> CPUs, and motherboards which work with them, from Newegg and similar? This
>> guy here:
>>
>> Intel Core i5-3570 - Core i5 3rd Gen Ivy Bridge Quad-Core 3.4GHz (3.8GHz
>> Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 77W Intel HD Graphics 2500 Desktop Processor -
>> BX80637i53570
>>
>> is $63 at Newegg... There are _swarms_ of cheap machines for sale from 2nd
>> and 3rd tier vendors which have 4th, 5th, 6th gen CPUs...
>>
> It is interesting the MS is doing this. Industry is going to be very
> reluctant to replace a four year old computer just because MS says it is
> obsolete.

MSFT had pretty much followed the same path with EOS policy for OEM
pre-built devices

The policy is called EOS((End Of Sales)
- i.e. the end date that OEM pc builders can install and sell equipment
with an earlier o/s pre-installed.
e.g. October 31, 2016 was the last date on which manufacturers could
sell PCs with Windows 7 pre-installed. Windows 7 was remained
supported(for updates) for 3 yrs, ~3 months.
Compound the EOS with OEM Microsoft Software Licensing requirement that no
longer provides downgrade to an earlier o/s.

i.e. Industry pretty much buy's new OEM machines then syspreps them to
their liking, the only method they have for earlier o/s after buying a
current o/s device after EOS for the prior is to pay more(for Commercial
Software Licensing or Software Assurance and for a minimum # of devices)

The OEM's(pc pre-installed o/s on device) themselves gain by limiting
their warranty and support to the current o/s.

It's not necessarily always about obsolescence, it's closer to the ability
for selling new devices.
Is it right? Not always, since $$ is a factor in newer o/s deployment in
industry where the typical upgrading in-house may be longer than the
recommended 3-5 yr cycle.

Once Windows 11 is released, announcement for EOS for Windows 10 usually
within a short time(and before 2025 -end of support for Win10)

--
....w¡ñ§±¤n

knuttle wrote:
> On 9/23/2021 9:07 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-23 8:14 p.m., 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>>> On 23/09/2021 23:33, knuttle wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440 and the other is
>>>> Intel® Core™ i7-6500U. Both computers are less that 5 years old.
>>>>
>>>> Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Have you tried to use Microsoft's Health checker on those computers?
>>> Can you do that on your own or do you need help on that as well?
>>
>> LOL!
>>
>>
> I just ran the MS Health check.  It said that the CPU was capable of doing
> everything need to run Windows 11 except the processor was too old. Item
> #1 in the list of requirements
>
> I wonder how many people on the MS staff are too old.

Lol...Not too many.
It's company(~183,000 employees world-wide) with a median age between
30-35 yrs. old(approx. 33)
- Note that was in 2018(3 yrs later for a variety of reasons it's closer
to 31-32)

--
....w¡ñ§±¤n

RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-23 8:14 p.m., 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>> On 23/09/2021 23:33, knuttle wrote:
>>>
>>> I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440 and the other is
>>> Intel® Core™ i7-6500U. Both computers are less that 5 years old.
>>>
>>> Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
>>>
>>>
>> Have you tried to use Microsoft's Health checker on those computers?
>> Can you do that on your own or do you need help on that as well?
>
> LOL!

There's more to your computer than that HealthChecker.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/oa3nly/attention_ryzen_and_intel_7th_gen_owners_please/

Paul

knuttle wrote:
> Note we still have newsgroups for Windows 98, Windows XP and Window 7
> and it has been 10 years since they were replaced. and you can still
> buy parts and software for some of them.

I've never felt the need to buy parts or software for newsgroups. :-)

-p

knuttle wrote:

> I suspect we will see a return to the situation that existed when Windows 10
> came out.  At that time there was a percentage of computers still running DOS, a
> large percentage running 98, a greater percentage running XP.

I'd have thought the vast majority were running Win7 and practically zero
running DOS or Win98.

On 9/24/2021 1:39 AM, Paul wrote:
> RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-23 8:14 p.m., 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>>> On 23/09/2021 23:33, knuttle wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440 and the other is
>>>> Intel® Core™ i7-6500U. Both computers are less that 5 years old.
>>>>
>>>> Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Have you tried to use Microsoft's Health checker on those computers?
>>> Can you do that on your own or do you need help on that as well?
>>
>> LOL!
>
> There's more to your computer than that HealthChecker.
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/oa3nly/attention_ryzen_and_intel_7th_gen_owners_please/
>
>
>    Paul
>
Then if the Health checker does not give you the full picture on
compatibility, what good is it?

On 2021-09-23 10:02 p.m., knuttle wrote:
> On 9/23/2021 9:20 PM, Wolffan wrote:
>> On 2021 Sep 23, philo wrote
>> (in article <sij0qm$769$1@dont-email.me>):
>>
>>> On 9/23/21 5:33 PM, knuttle wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440 and the other is
>>>> Intel® Core™ i7-6500U. Both computers are less that 5 years old.
>>>>
>>>> Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
>>>>
>>>> If not will these computers become unusable like my tablet which tries
>>>> to update every time it is connected to the web, or once MS decides a
>>>> computer is not upgrade able will they mark them not for upgrade and
>>>> let
>>>> the computer continue to be used.
>>>>
>>>> I lost my tablet when MS upgraded Windows from 180x to 190x. It is
>>>> unusable on the web because it still tries to upgrade, and crashes like
>>>> the first time it tried to update several dozen attempt before.
>>>
>>> I have been on the Windows Insider channel and for Win11, I have been
>>> evaluating it ever since it was released.
>>>
>>> In short; You *might* be able to sneak by on a non-approved CPU of Gen 7
>>> but any less and it just will not work.
>>>
>>> Neither of your CPU's are even close.
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure neither are under five years old either unless the mfg
>>> was really skimping.
>>
>> You _do_ know that it is still possible to buy 4th and even 3rd
>> generation
>> CPUs, and motherboards which work with them, from Newegg and similar?
>> This
>> guy here:
>>
>> Intel Core i5-3570 - Core i5 3rd Gen Ivy Bridge Quad-Core 3.4GHz (3.8GHz
>> Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 77W Intel HD Graphics 2500 Desktop Processor -
>> BX80637i53570
>>
>> is $63 at Newegg... There are _swarms_ of cheap machines for sale from
>> 2nd
>> and 3rd tier vendors which have 4th, 5th, 6th gen CPUs...
>>
> It is interesting the MS is doing this. Industry is going to be very
> reluctant to replace a four year old computer just because MS says it is
> obsolete.

Theoretically, Microsoft's decision to so hastily lock out some hardware
would suggest that Linux finally has an opportunity to make some headway
into the desktop and increase its usage percentage. However, I think
that the corporation knows that interest in open-source is minimal and
waning so they've made this decision knowing that people would rather
buy a new machine than stick Linux onto their old one. After all,
manufacturers want Windows to sell computers and what better way to do
that than to refuse to support old hardware?

> If MS follows through with this computer purge, I suspect we will see a
> return to the situation that existed when Windows 10 came out.  At that
> time there was a percentage of computers still running DOS, a large
> percentage running 98, a greater percentage running XP.  It took years
> for Windows 10 to gain a larger share of the market than Windows 7.

People were still using DOS in 2015? That's hard to believe. I imagine
that 98 was still in use by people in their 80s who bought a computer in
the 90s and never bothered to upgrade, same with XP.

> Personally I never owned a Windows 7 computer,  I continued to use XP
> until my computers died and I was forced to buy a computers with Windows
> 10.
>
> Note we still have newsgroups for Windows 98, Windows XP and Window 7
> and it has been 10 years since they were replaced. and you can still buy
> parts and software for some of them.   As I remember Windows 7 was
> supported for years after it was suppose to be killed off.
>
> I wonder why MS decided to go back to the jungle of many Windows
> version. I worked a one company years after Windows 10 cam out that was
> still running Windows 7 on all of their computers.

If Microsoft will still be supporting 10 until 2025, I imagine that it's
because much of the core of 10 and 11 is shared. However, like any good
company, Microsoft will be eager to put as much of their resources onto
the newest product rather than have some of them work on the product
that is no longer available for purchase. 11 users will definitely
benefit if every Microsoft employee is focusing on that rather than
keeping the batteries charged for something which came out in 2015, 2012
or 2009.

--
@RabidHussar
Proud LibreOffice and Thunderbird donor
Pure blood
Supporter of independent journalism
John 15:18

On 2021-09-24 12:25 a.m., Paul wrote:
> knuttle wrote:
>
>> I wonder why MS decided to go back to the jungle of many Windows
>> version. I worked a one company years after Windows 10 cam out that
>> was still running Windows 7 on all of their computers.
>
> Believe it or not, it costs good money, to change OS versions.
>
> And Windows 11 is not finished.
>
> Windows 11 is about as ready as Vista was.

Speaking purely as a person who beta-tested Vista, I can say with a 100%
degree of certainty that 11 in beta is not only much better than Vista
beta was but even better than 10 was in its final state. It is rock
solid across the board and the only problem I can spot is a significant
delay in getting the context menu to open up in certain areas (which
shouldn't be happening on a 5900HS).

> Windows 10 still has its Control Panels, and a
> confused path back and forth through the Settings
> panel to get to the System control panel. And it's
> only been six fucking years ??? What is this ?
>
> The product sells itself.
>
> How many Control Panels are in Windows 11 ???
>
> And I like Control Panels, but for God sake,
> shit or get off the pot.
>
> Now you know why Windows 7 is on the machines.
> A consistent design, and amounting to a tested
> version of Vista. "It's our best OS yet" :-/

I can confirm that a user still has access to the Control Panel in 11 if
they're looking for it. For some, this is an inconsistency but to solve
some problems (such as manually creating a connection or to find an
entry into the Device Manager), it's useful to have. I can't complain
about its continued inclusino.

--
@RabidHussar
Proud LibreOffice and Thunderbird donor
Pure blood
Supporter of independent journalism
John 15:18

On 2021-09-24 5:17 a.m., Andy Burns wrote:
> knuttle wrote:
>
>> I suspect we will see a return to the situation that existed when
>> Windows 10 came out.  At that time there was a percentage of computers
>> still running DOS, a large percentage running 98, a greater percentage
>> running XP.
>
> I'd have thought the vast majority were running Win7 and practically
> zero running DOS or Win98.

I'm sure that there are masochists out there who insist on using
something like FreeDOS for nostalgia reasons and think that they can do
just as good a job getting connected through Arachne rather than a
Windows-based browser.

--
@RabidHussar
Proud LibreOffice and Thunderbird donor
Pure blood
Supporter of independent journalism
John 15:18

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 at 22:02:54, knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net>
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>On 9/23/2021 9:20 PM, Wolffan wrote:
[]
>>> In short; You *might* be able to sneak by on a non-approved CPU of Gen 7
>>> but any less and it just will not work.
>>>
Is it some _aspect_ of the newer generations that is required - the
trusted module or whatever (though it's been shown that W11 doesn't
_currently_ actually need that, only the installer) for example - or is
it just that MS are doing a "yah boo sucks"?
[]
>> You _do_ know that it is still possible to buy 4th and even 3rd
>>generation
>> CPUs, and motherboards which work with them, from Newegg and similar? This
[]
>> is $63 at Newegg... There are _swarms_ of cheap machines for sale
>>from 2nd
>> and 3rd tier vendors which have 4th, 5th, 6th gen CPUs...
>>
>It is interesting the MS is doing this. Industry is going to be very
>reluctant to replace a four year old computer just because MS says it
>is obsolete.

Indeed.
>
>If MS follows through with this computer purge, I suspect we will see a
>return to the situation that existed when Windows 10 came out. At that
>time there was a percentage of computers still running DOS, a large
>percentage running 98, a greater percentage running XP. It took years
>for Windows 10 to gain a larger share of the market than Windows 7.

I would imagine the DOS/98 ones are _mostly_ because of old hardware
(sometimes, in industry, costing thousands), which works fine but for
which new drivers aren't available (possibly because the manufacturer
has ceased to exist). For _those_, they'll continue to use the old
machines until the hardware fails.

Yes, it did take a while for 10 to overtake 7 (and longer for it to
overtake XP-plus-7) - and I think the main reason it did was that you
couldn't buy a machine with other than 10 (so not because of "customer
satisfaction", as a well-known troll put in his .sig).
[]
>Note we still have newsgroups for Windows 98, Windows XP and Window 7

Though the '98 one is very quiet ... (-: [There is, I think, even a '95
one. I haven't seen a post there for a while ...]

>and it has been 10 years since they were replaced. and you can still
>buy parts and software for some of them. As I remember Windows 7 was
>supported for years after it was suppose to be killed off.

I _think_ that description applies more to XP. It's not _that_ long
since 7 stopped.
>
>I wonder why MS decided to go back to the jungle of many Windows
>version. I worked a one company years after Windows 10 cam out that was
>still running Windows 7 on all of their computers.
>
Companies change when the cost of supporting the old exceeds the cost of
changing, unless the new has some advantage they can really see (a
financial benefit to). For a _lot_ of companies, I suspect the main
reason for change has been security concerns, rather than a got-to-have
new facility, since - roughly - XP.
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother," said Pooh, as he fell off the bridge with his stick.

On 2021-09-24 9:42 a.m., J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 at 22:02:54, knuttle <keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>> On 9/23/2021 9:20 PM, Wolffan wrote:
> []
>>>> In short; You *might* be able to sneak by on a non-approved CPU of
>>>> Gen 7
>>>> but any less and it just will not work.
>>>>
> Is it some _aspect_ of the newer generations that is required - the
> trusted module or whatever (though it's been shown that W11 doesn't
> _currently_ actually need that, only the installer) for example - or is
> it just that MS are doing a "yah boo sucks"?

In the end, the TPM module allows for nothing more than the encryption
of the hard disk. For some people, this feature might be completely
useless merely because, in case of failure, they WANT to be able to boot
into the computer with a Linux LiveUSB and regain entry into the system.
The fact that they are making it mandatory for 11 and enabling it
without user intervention in Windows 10 _Home_ is fairly bizarre.

< snip >

>> If MS follows through with this computer purge, I suspect we will see
>> a return to the situation that existed when Windows 10 came out.  At
>> that time there was a percentage of computers still running DOS, a
>> large percentage running 98, a greater percentage running XP.  It took
>> years for Windows 10 to gain a larger share of the market than Windows 7.
>
> I would imagine the DOS/98 ones are _mostly_ because of old hardware
> (sometimes, in industry, costing thousands), which works fine but for
> which new drivers aren't available (possibly because the manufacturer
> has ceased to exist). For _those_, they'll continue to use the old
> machines until the hardware fails.
>
> Yes, it did take a while for 10 to overtake 7 (and longer for it to
> overtake XP-plus-7) - and I think the main reason it did was that you
> couldn't buy a machine with other than 10 (so not because of "customer
> satisfaction", as a well-known troll put in his .sig).
> []

I imagine that small businesses who bought some hardware which costs
something like $10,000 and performs a specific job but _only_ works in
Windows 95/98 won't be willing to change computers and operating systems
if those later OS don't support that hardware. I imagine that their
choice is to once again buy a newer version of that same, working
hardware in addition to the new computer. For most who are barely able
to make a profit, the deal won't be so sweet.

>> Note we still have newsgroups for Windows 98, Windows XP and Window 7
>
> Though the '98 one is very quiet ... (-: [There is, I think, even a '95
> one. I haven't seen a post there for a while ...]

What about the Atari ST forums? :D

< snip >

>> I wonder why MS decided to go back to the jungle of many Windows
>> version. I worked a one company years after Windows 10 cam out that
>> was still running Windows 7 on all of their computers.
>>
> Companies change when the cost of supporting the old exceeds the cost of
> changing, unless the new has some advantage they can really see (a
> financial benefit to). For a _lot_ of companies, I suspect the main
> reason for change has been security concerns, rather than a got-to-have
> new facility, since - roughly - XP.

The funny thing is that for security concerns, the smarter idea would be
to install a decent security package from a third-party rather than
upgrade the OS.

--
@RabidHussar
Proud LibreOffice and Thunderbird donor
Pure blood
Supporter of independent journalism
John 15:18

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 18:33:17 -0400, knuttle wrote:

> I have two computers one is Intel® Core™ i5-4440 and the other is
> Intel® Core™ i7-6500U. Both computers are less that 5 years old.
>
>
> Will Windows 11 run on these CPU's?
>
> If not will these computers become unusable like my tablet which
> tries to update every time it is connected to the web, or once MS
> decides a computer is not upgrade able will they mark them not
> for upgrade and let the computer continue to be used.
>
> I lost my tablet when MS upgraded Windows from 180x to 190x. It
> is unusable on the web because it still tries to upgrade, and
> crashes like the first time it tried to update several dozen
> attempt before.

There's a Win11 group for that.

On 9/24/2021 4:58 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-24 12:25 a.m., Paul wrote:
>> knuttle wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder why MS decided to go back to the jungle of many Windows
>>> version. I worked a one company years after Windows 10 cam out that
>>> was still running Windows 7 on all of their computers.
>>
>> Believe it or not, it costs good money, to change OS versions.
>>
>> And Windows 11 is not finished.
>>
>> Windows 11 is about as ready as Vista was.
>
> Speaking purely as a person who beta-tested Vista, I can say with a 100%
> degree of certainty that 11 in beta is not only much better than Vista
> beta was but even better than 10 was in its final state. It is rock
> solid across the board and the only problem I can spot is a significant
> delay in getting the context menu to open up in certain areas (which
> shouldn't be happening on a 5900HS).

That's very good to hear. I hope you're right, but I'll withhold
judgement until it's released and I install it here.

--
Ken