My email provider has notified me they are retiring their email and web
hosting services [years ago they had ceased being an ISP].
[ did I mention that was back in dial-up days. *ROFL*]

I wish to continue using SeaMonkey as a plaintext POP email client.
I date back to Netscape days and my habits are built around SeaMonkey.
There is *NO* need/desire for encryption as >99% of emails are either:
1. high volume FOSS mailing lists
2. techie USENET groups
[I treat "ANYthing on WEB as *PUBLIC*]
I prefer services I explicitly pay for
[i.e. There is no such thing as a free lunch ;]

I will not consider browser based email as everything will be plain
text. I prefer POP3 as that is what my current setup uses. If I
understand correctly, a transition to IMAP should not be a major problem.

Suggestions please.
TIA

Clarification:
I explicitly *DO NOT WANT* to create my own domain!

On 05/28/2023 06:02 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> My email provider has notified me they are retiring their email and web
> hosting services [years ago they had ceased being an ISP].
> [ did I mention that was back in dial-up days. *ROFL*]
>
> I wish to continue using SeaMonkey as a plaintext POP email client.
> I date back to Netscape days and my habits are built around SeaMonkey.
> There is *NO* need/desire for encryption as >99% of emails are either:
>     1. high volume FOSS mailing lists
>     2. techie USENET groups
>     [I treat "ANYthing on WEB as *PUBLIC*]
> I prefer services I explicitly pay for
>     [i.e. There is no such thing as a free lunch ;]
>
> I will not consider browser based email as everything will be plain
> text. I prefer POP3 as that is what my current setup uses. If I
> understand correctly, a transition to IMAP should not be a major problem.
>
> Suggestions please.
> TIA
>
>

On 5/28/2023 6:31 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> Clarification:
> I explicitly *DO NOT WANT* to create my own domain!
>
>
> On 05/28/2023 06:02 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> My email provider has notified me they are retiring their email and web
>> hosting services [years ago they had ceased being an ISP].
>> [ did I mention that was back in dial-up days. *ROFL*]
>>
>> I wish to continue using SeaMonkey as a plaintext POP email client.
>> I date back to Netscape days and my habits are built around SeaMonkey.
>> There is *NO* need/desire for encryption as >99% of emails are either:
>>     1. high volume FOSS mailing lists
>>     2. techie USENET groups
>>     [I treat "ANYthing on WEB as *PUBLIC*]
>> I prefer services I explicitly pay for
>>     [i.e. There is no such thing as a free lunch ;]
>>
>> I will not consider browser based email as everything will be plain
>> text. I prefer POP3 as that is what my current setup uses. If I
>> understand correctly, a transition to IMAP should not be a major problem.
>>
>> Suggestions please.
>> TIA

I use Sunset.net, which is part of Great Basin Internet Services. They
host my E-mail (POP3/SMTP) and Web site. Their technical support is
based in the U.S., not off-shore.

I pay $84.95 quarterly. No, they do not want my credit card. I pay
electronically through my bank's Web site, but they will accept paper
checks sent via the U.S. Postal Service.

I can create different E-mail accounts without extra fees; I have 5. I
can create E-mail filters at the POP3 server, for just a single E-mail
account or globally for all.

See <https://sunset.net/index.html>.

NOTE: Your current E-mail address uses the domain cloud85.net. If that
domain is proprietary to your current host, you will indeed need a new
E-mail address at your new host. I do not think a new host can use
another entity's registered domain. You will then have to notify all
those with whom you want to maintain contact of your new address. It is
for this reason that I have a personalize domain, which has followed me
to three ISPs without me having to notify anyone (other than the host)
of my change.

--
David E. Ross
VW Jetta for Sale
See <http://www.rossde.com/Jetta_for_sale.html>

On 05/28/2023 10:44 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 5/28/2023 6:31 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> Clarification:
>> I explicitly *DO NOT WANT* to create my own domain!
>>
>>
>> On 05/28/2023 06:02 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>> My email provider has notified me they are retiring their email and web
>>> hosting services [years ago they had ceased being an ISP].
>>> [ did I mention that was back in dial-up days. *ROFL*]
>>>
>>> I wish to continue using SeaMonkey as a plaintext POP email client.
>>> I date back to Netscape days and my habits are built around SeaMonkey.
>>> There is *NO* need/desire for encryption as >99% of emails are either:
>>>     1. high volume FOSS mailing lists
>>>     2. techie USENET groups
>>>     [I treat "ANYthing on WEB as *PUBLIC*]
>>> I prefer services I explicitly pay for
>>>     [i.e. There is no such thing as a free lunch ;]
>>>
>>> I will not consider browser based email as everything will be plain
>>> text. I prefer POP3 as that is what my current setup uses. If I
>>> understand correctly, a transition to IMAP should not be a major problem.
>>>
>>> Suggestions please.
>>> TIA
>
> I use Sunset.net, which is part of Great Basin Internet Services. They
> host my E-mail (POP3/SMTP) and Web site. Their technical support is
> based in the U.S., not off-shore.
>
> I pay $84.95 quarterly. No, they do not want my credit card. I pay
> electronically through my bank's Web site, but they will accept paper
> checks sent via the U.S. Postal Service.
>
> I can create different E-mail accounts without extra fees; I have 5. I
> can create E-mail filters at the POP3 server, for just a single E-mail
> account or globally for all.
>
> See <https://sunset.net/index.html>.
>
> NOTE: Your current E-mail address uses the domain cloud85.net. If that
> domain is proprietary to your current host, you will indeed need a new
> E-mail address at your new host. I do not think a new host can use
> another entity's registered domain. You will then have to notify all
> those with whom you want to maintain contact of your new address. It is
> for this reason that I have a personalize domain, which has followed me
> to three ISPs without me having to notify anyone (other than the host)
> of my change.
>

My problem description was evidently incomplete.
Having been a computer _USER_ since taking an intro to programming as an
engineering undergrad OVER 60 years ago I have never had any need/desire
of my own website. My reasoning for NOT wanting a personalized domain
name --- it is less bother. An acquaintance has offered to host my email
*IF* I register a personal domain. In weeks I'll turn 80 shortly. This
the 2nd time in ~30 years that I've had to change email providers.

Thank you for your time.

On 5/28/2023 9:55 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 05/28/2023 10:44 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
>> On 5/28/2023 6:31 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>> Clarification:
>>> I explicitly *DO NOT WANT* to create my own domain!
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/28/2023 06:02 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>> My email provider has notified me they are retiring their email and web
>>>> hosting services [years ago they had ceased being an ISP].
>>>> [ did I mention that was back in dial-up days. *ROFL*]
>>>>
>>>> I wish to continue using SeaMonkey as a plaintext POP email client.
>>>> I date back to Netscape days and my habits are built around SeaMonkey.
>>>> There is *NO* need/desire for encryption as >99% of emails are either:
>>>>     1. high volume FOSS mailing lists
>>>>     2. techie USENET groups
>>>>     [I treat "ANYthing on WEB as *PUBLIC*]
>>>> I prefer services I explicitly pay for
>>>>     [i.e. There is no such thing as a free lunch ;]
>>>>
>>>> I will not consider browser based email as everything will be plain
>>>> text. I prefer POP3 as that is what my current setup uses. If I
>>>> understand correctly, a transition to IMAP should not be a major problem.
>>>>
>>>> Suggestions please.
>>>> TIA
>>
>> I use Sunset.net, which is part of Great Basin Internet Services. They
>> host my E-mail (POP3/SMTP) and Web site. Their technical support is
>> based in the U.S., not off-shore.
>>
>> I pay $84.95 quarterly. No, they do not want my credit card. I pay
>> electronically through my bank's Web site, but they will accept paper
>> checks sent via the U.S. Postal Service.
>>
>> I can create different E-mail accounts without extra fees; I have 5. I
>> can create E-mail filters at the POP3 server, for just a single E-mail
>> account or globally for all.
>>
>> See <https://sunset.net/index.html>.
>>
>> NOTE: Your current E-mail address uses the domain cloud85.net. If that
>> domain is proprietary to your current host, you will indeed need a new
>> E-mail address at your new host. I do not think a new host can use
>> another entity's registered domain. You will then have to notify all
>> those with whom you want to maintain contact of your new address. It is
>> for this reason that I have a personalize domain, which has followed me
>> to three ISPs without me having to notify anyone (other than the host)
>> of my change.
>>
>
> My problem description was evidently incomplete.
> Having been a computer _USER_ since taking an intro to programming as an
> engineering undergrad OVER 60 years ago I have never had any need/desire
> of my own website. My reasoning for NOT wanting a personalized domain
> name --- it is less bother. An acquaintance has offered to host my email
> *IF* I register a personal domain. In weeks I'll turn 80 shortly. This
> the 2nd time in ~30 years that I've had to change email providers.
>
> Thank you for your time.

I too learned to program about 60 years ago. After that, my life's
entire career was with computer software. For about 7 years, I was a
programmer. The remaining 34 years, I was a software test engineer;
most of those years, I tested software used by the U.S. military to fly
its earth-orbiting space satellites.

In 10 weeks, I will be 82. Old dogs do learn new tricks, but many of
the old tricks are still very good.

--
David E. Ross
VW Jetta for Sale
See <http://www.rossde.com/Jetta_for_sale.html>

Richard Owlett wrote:
> I wish to continue using SeaMonkey as a plaintext POP email client.
> I date back to Netscape days and my habits are built around SeaMonkey.
> There is *NO* need/desire for encryption as >99% of emails are either:
>     1. high volume FOSS mailing lists
>     2. techie USENET groups
>     [I treat "ANYthing on WEB as *PUBLIC*]
> I prefer services I explicitly pay for
>     [i.e. There is no such thing as a free lunch ;]

I'm quite happy with Fastmail. I pay only $10/year for it, although new
accounts may pay more. It works fine with any mail client I want to
use, including POP connections with Seamonkey. Fastmail does require
use of an application password for an external client. That's a minor
annoyance to set up -- log into the web client follow the dialogs for
creating a separate password, and then use that password for POP and
SMTP connections.

I consider Fastmail to be reasonably good on security, including that it
requires encrypted connections for all exchanges. For some, privacy
could be an issue in that the operation is Australian and they have
extensive server presence in the US, both Five Eyes countries. Fastmail
also provides a calendar system, although I haven't tried using it.
Although Fastmail allows users to provide their own domains, it's not
required. Fastmail.com (and several other domains) are all available. On
the other hand, they're not so secure as to do encryption of storage on
a server, the way that some enhanced-security providers do.

I fully commend the idea of using a paid mail provider, where you are
the customer that's being served, rather than being the product being
sold (as with advertising-based providers) or connectivity providers
that are providing email as a value-added service. As you're seeing,
many connectivity providers are losing interest in mail services,
whether dropping them outright as your provider is doing, or where
they're outsourcing to one of the big advertising-supported providers.
I know that for both Verizon and AT&T, that outsourcing goes through
Yahoo. But I'm pretty sure that some outsource through Google and maybe
even Microsoft. And if you're paying, you generally have some hope of
somebody answering the phone if you need help.

As for Usenet, I believe it's pretty unusual for a connectivity provider
to be doing that anymore. My own provider dropped Usenet 20 years ago.
There are a handful of free providers out there that work well enough,
depending on what you're trying to do (especially whether you want
binary newsgroups or not). For years, I was happy with aioe.org, but
they had problems with their servers earlier this year, and I switched
to using eternal-september.org, and that's worked well enough for me.

Smith

On 05/28/2023 11:39 PM, NFN Smith wrote:
> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I wish to continue using SeaMonkey as a plaintext POP email client.
>> I date back to Netscape days and my habits are built around SeaMonkey.
>> There is *NO* need/desire for encryption as >99% of emails are either:
>>      1. high volume FOSS mailing lists
>>      2. techie USENET groups
>>      [I treat "ANYthing on WEB as *PUBLIC*]
>> I prefer services I explicitly pay for
>>      [i.e. There is no such thing as a free lunch ;]
>
>
> I'm quite happy with Fastmail.  I pay only $10/year for it, although new
> accounts may pay more.  It works fine with any mail client I want to
> use, including POP connections with Seamonkey.  Fastmail does require
> use of an application password for an external client.  That's a minor
> annoyance to set up -- log into the web client follow the dialogs for
> creating a separate password, and then use that password for POP and
> SMTP connections.
>
> I consider Fastmail to be reasonably good on security, including that it
> requires encrypted connections for all exchanges.  For some, privacy
> could be an issue in that the operation is Australian and they have
> extensive server presence in the US, both Five Eyes countries.  Fastmail
>  also provides a calendar system, although I haven't tried using it.
> Although Fastmail allows users to provide their own domains, it's not
> required. Fastmail.com (and several other domains) are all available. On
> the other hand, they're not so secure as to do encryption of storage on
> a server, the way that some enhanced-security providers do.
>
> I fully commend the idea of using a paid mail provider, where you are
> the customer that's being served, rather than being the product being
> sold (as with advertising-based providers) or connectivity providers
> that are providing email as a value-added service.  As you're seeing,
> many connectivity providers are losing interest in mail services,
> whether dropping them outright as your provider is doing, or where
> they're outsourcing to one of the big advertising-supported providers. I
> know that for both Verizon and AT&T, that outsourcing goes through
> Yahoo.  But I'm pretty sure that some outsource through Google and maybe
> even Microsoft.  And if you're paying, you generally have some hope of
> somebody answering the phone if you need help.
>
> As for Usenet, I believe it's pretty unusual for a connectivity provider
> to be doing that anymore.  My own provider dropped Usenet 20 years ago.
> There are a handful of free providers out there that work well enough,
> depending on what you're trying to do (especially whether you want
> binary newsgroups or not).  For years, I was happy with aioe.org, but
> they had problems with their servers earlier this year, and I switched
> to using eternal-september.org, and that's worked well enough for me.
>
> Smith

Thank you for your reply.
I've been searching for a new provider for almost two months.
Fastmail was among the first providers I *TRIED* to investigate.
Note the verb choice highlighted above [chuckle/GROAN ;]

The most major problem was fastmail.com is inaccessible!
I use "inaccessible" in the sense a visually handicapped person would.
Wearing tri-focals solves my "activities of daily problems.
Fastmail.com is an exemplar of poor use of graphics &/or JavaScript.
There are so many sites with the same defect that I use SeaMonkey's
ability to disable JavaScript and ignore a site's chosen colors and
background images on my primary machine.

To determine if it was worth further investigation I searched for sites
discussing Fastmail. Some useful sites I found were:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastmail
2. https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/fastmail
3. https://cybernews.com/secure-email-providers/fastmail-review/

I found that a reviewer's determination that a feature constituted a PRO
or a CON had no correlation to my needs/preferences. So I just treated
them as a neutral list of features. As I found fastmail.com unusable I
could not access how Fastmail defined each feature.

"Features" that cause me discomfort include:
1. it is an offshore company - I have no experience to evaluate.
2. encryption - effect on USENET and Debian Mailing Lists?
I notice that you contact this list through a gmail account.
3. reference to smart phone being needed for security issues.
Due to my visual issues I do not have one.
4. I see "productivity tools"(sic) such as clutter.

Some background may illuminate my preferences. More than thirty years
ago my current provider began as a family owned computer store aimed at
the general consumer market. As they attracted more local businesses
they became an ISP { via dial-up ;}. I was one of the last dial-up
customers a few years ago. To maintain my connectivity I purchased a
WiFi Hotspot (and related services) from T-Mobile. I use it essentially
as a modem [WiFi being disabled by a device setting]. As to email,
T-Mobile apparently assumes that if you want mail you have a smartphone.

Thank you again.

On 5/29/2023 5:49 AM, Richard Owlett wrote [in part]:
> "Features" that cause me discomfort include:
> 1. it is an offshore company - I have no experience to evaluate.

Sunset.net is "onshore". I think they are located somewhere in a Rocky
Mountain state. Everyone there speaks English without a foreign accent.
When I send my quarterly payment, it is to a U.S. address.

However, it appears that Sunset.net uses Amazon services.

--
David E. Ross
VW Jetta for Sale
See <http://www.rossde.com/Jetta_for_sale.html>

Richard Owlett wrote:
> My email provider has notified me they are retiring their email and web
> hosting services [years ago they had ceased being an ISP].
> [ did I mention that was back in dial-up days. *ROFL*]
>
> I wish to continue using SeaMonkey as a plaintext POP email client.
> I date back to Netscape days and my habits are built around SeaMonkey.
> There is *NO* need/desire for encryption as >99% of emails are either:
>     1. high volume FOSS mailing lists
>     2. techie USENET groups
>     [I treat "ANYthing on WEB as *PUBLIC*]
> I prefer services I explicitly pay for
>     [i.e. There is no such thing as a free lunch ;]
>
> I will not consider browser based email as everything will be plain
> text. I prefer POP3 as that is what my current setup uses. If I
> understand correctly, a transition to IMAP should not be a major problem.
>
> Suggestions please.
> TIA
>
>
Many services that provide stand-alone email accounts additionally
provide browser based access for that exact same account.
Second, almost all(if not all) providers of email services host their
services in/on the cloud in one form or another - thus unless
specifically noted in the provider's plan => web based

i.e. Trying to avoid a service that does not provide web based access to
email and/or account might be a pipe dream.

In your case, whatever you decide, when using an account for a high
volume mailing list(s), ensure the plan supports high volume from the
start - some services may have a 'learning curve' - your
incoming/outgoing may start off limited and increase on use over time,
and the ability to manage incoming for content that may be perceived as
junk(Note: that type of configuration may only be available accessing
the account settings/configuration in a browser - again web based)

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

....winston wrote:
> Many services that provide stand-alone email accounts additionally
> provide browser based access for that exact same account.
> Second, almost all(if not all) providers of email services host their
> services in/on the cloud in one form or another - thus unless
> specifically noted in the provider's plan => web based
>
> i.e. Trying to avoid a service that does not provide web based access to
> email and/or account might be a pipe dream.

Even if you normally interact only through a stand-alone client, there
are some functions that are going to be web-only. Most prominently,
this would be tuning of spam filters on the server. Yes, Seamonkey
provides some measure of spam filtering, but the scope of what's
possible is only after mail has been received by the server and written
to the mail store located on the server.

By contrast, if you're interacting with the filtering on the server,
that affects how the server interacts with messages, beginning from the
time that the sender first connects to the receiving server and issues
an SMTP EHLO command. Sometimes, user designation of a message as Junk
may be enough to force rejection of future traffic that is sufficiently
similar, or at the very least, shunting to a junk folder that may be
only accessible from a web interface, especially if you're using POP
(where an external client sees only the server's Inbox). Unless you're
very confident of your server's ability to avoid false positives, if
you're a POP user, it's essential to make periodic checks of the
server's mailbox from a web UI to find any false positives.

Additionally, for services that use application passwords (including
Fastmail), the process for setup of that password is going to go through
web interface.

I know of no mail provider (not even private ones) that don't provide a
web UI, at least as an option.

I will note that both Yahoo and and Gmail are well-known for users who
do stuff exclusively through the web, but both do both POP and IMAP, as
well. I have accounts with both, and I've had no problems setting up
Seamonkey to use them. Yahoo requires an application password and Gmail
expects use of OAuth2, but Seamonkey handles them both. I consider both
of these accounts to be throw-away, and as a result, I log into them via
the web very infrequently, maybe only once or twice in a year -- mostly
as a way of checking spam filtering, whether checking for a
false-positive, or adjusting filters to improve automatic handling on
the server.

Smith

Richard Owlett wrote:
> "Features" that cause me discomfort include:
>      1. it is an offshore company - I have no experience to evaluate.

With Fastmail, operations are predominantly US-based. For practical
purposes, the only time I ever notice is when I make my annual renewal,
my credit card is charged in Australian dollars and then there's a
corresponding international transaction fee.

>     2. encryption - effect on USENET and Debian Mailing Lists?
>        I notice that you contact this list through a gmail account.

For what you're doing, the scope of encryption is irrelevant. The only
encryption that happens is SSL/TLS (incoming) or STARTTLS (outgoing)
between the user and the server. That's standard for nearly any
user-to-server interactions, where some implementation of SSL is used as
an encrypted tunnel. That means that the content is encrypted when it
enters the tunnel at one end, and where encryption goes away when the
content leaves the tunnel. It's pretty much the same whether you're
using POP or IMAP access to a mailbox, SMTP to send or even HTTPS for
access to a web server.

Over the last decade, Google has been mostly successful in convincing
the Internet in doing nearly all connections over SSL (mail and web).
It's not universal, but the number of places where you don't have SSL
connections is becoming remarkably small. Usenet servers may be more
likely to not have encryption, but some servers do support encryption.
But even then, encryption is invisible, because it's covering only the
connection

To re-iterate, if you're sending mail through an encrypted connection,
then the encryption only covers the connection itself and is discarded
when the message arrives at the server. On the next link, it's entirely
possible that the intermediary server may be negotiating a new SSL
connection between that server and the target server that is the
ultimate destination of your mail.

In this perspective, SSL encryption of connections is so close to
universal that it's no longer a selling point. There are a few providers
out there that do promote themselves as "security enhanced", such as
ProtonMail or TutaNota. For that, they're doing a lot of additional
stuff, such as hosting under Swiss privacy jurisdiction, a proprietary
interface to allow for IMAP and SMTP interface and encryption of mailbox
content as it's stored on the server. Plus with ProtonMail, I know that
they make a lot of emphasis of direct support of PGP encryption. And
with ProtonMail, encryption of storage only applies to physical storage
-- stuff is encrypted when it's written to their server, and then
decrypted when data is read back into memory. But that's not any
different than if you're running encrypted storage on your own hard disk.

Speaking of PGP, that's a different form of encryption (and where you
might be confusing how it works with SSL). With PGP, encryption is done
before the message leaves the client, whether manual encryption (and
insertion as attachment or in the mail body), not in the connection, as
with SSL. With PGP, it is possible to do end-to-end encryption of the
content without being unencrypted at any point in the path between
sender and receiver. However, the limit of that kind of encryption is
that the receiver and sender must have previously exchanged public keys
and that by necessity, no header content is encrypted. There may be
places for PGP encryption, but only for select individual messages, and
there is no way that it's practical (or even desirable) for routine mail.

For your use, if you're not trying to interact with PGP (and I think you
shouldn't) provider-supplied encryption is going to be invisible to you,
and won't have any effect on your participation in either mailing lists
or Usenet.

As for me, the return address I use on Usenet posts is a gmail address,
but I actually send through a Yahoo connection.

>     3. reference to smart phone being needed for security issues.
>        Due to my visual issues I do not have one.

I haven't had any need for smart phone with Fastmail. Yes, that's
getting to be much more common (especially with web-based stuff), and
unfortunately that's going to keep growing. The underlying issue there
is in authentication, of proving that you are who you say you are, and
not somebody else (including a bot) posing as you. For the most part
mail services are using applications passwords and OAuth2 for POP, IMAP
and SMTP. There may be some that force MFA through a phone for web
access, but I haven't seen any, at least not yet. Most of what I've
seen for MFA tends to give the option of either phone or email, but I'm
not aware of any that try to do that for an external mail client.
That's the whole purpose of authentication password or OAuth2, to
provide the second factor for what is otherwise a non-interactive process.

Personally, I'm hostile to using my phone for authentication, and I
avoid as much as possible, but there are places that I can't avoid doing
things that way. But I don't have that with mail.

>     4. I see "productivity tools"(sic) such as clutter.

Your call -- some find it useful, others don't. Although I do calendar
management for work, the only time I know that Fastmail supports a
calendar are in the rare times I go to their web UI and encounter it there.

Smith

try out sdf.org

they provide a shell account, but also email and other services.

after signing up for the (free) basic account, you can upgrade to
one of the paid accounts, such as:

VPM [Mail Service] ($20 annual)

-JimC
--
James Cloos <cloos@jhcloos.com> OpenPGP: 0x997A9F17ED7DAEA6

On 05/29/2023 01:19 PM, James Cloos wrote:
> try out sdf.org
>
> they provide a shell account, but also email and other services.
>
> after signing up for the (free) basic account, you can upgrade to
> one of the paid accounts, such as:
>
> VPM [Mail Service] ($20 annual)
>
> -JimC
>

*THANK YOU*!
Reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDF_Public_Access_Unix_System
brought back memories. I was an Engineering Tech at DEC in early 70's
and in pre-internet days accessed a bulletin board system with my
Kaypro-10 [ or was it my Z80 based CPM system ;]

That page and https://wiki.sdf.org/doku.php?id=email_at_sdf suggest we
share a similar mindset. I'll peruse the two dozen links on their homepage.

You may have solved my problem.
Thanks again.

On 05/30/2023 07:58 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 05/29/2023 01:19 PM, James Cloos wrote:
>> try out sdf.org
>>
>> they provide a shell account, but also email and other services.
>>
>> after signing up for the (free) basic account, you can upgrade to
>> one of the paid accounts, such as:
>>
>>    VPM [Mail Service] ($20 annual)
>>
>> -JimC
>>
>
> *THANK YOU*!
> Reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDF_Public_Access_Unix_System
> brought back memories. I was an Engineering Tech at DEC in early 70's
> and in pre-internet days accessed a bulletin board system with my
> Kaypro-10 [ or was it my Z80 based CPM system ;]
>
> That page and https://wiki.sdf.org/doku.php?id=email_at_sdf suggest we
> share a similar mindset. I'll peruse the two dozen links on their homepage.
>
> You may have solved my problem.
> Thanks again.
>

Succeeded in setting up initial free account.
Logged in twice with no problem.

It was unclear how to initiate setting up the "VPM [Mail Service]".
Does the administration of sdf.org have an externally available email
address to report documentation problems?

TIA

James Cloos <cloos@jhcloos.com> wrote:
> try out sdf.org

> they provide a shell account, but also email and other services.

> after signing up for the (free) basic account, you can upgrade to
> one of the paid accounts, such as:

> VPM [Mail Service] ($20 annual)

> -JimC

Who is on it to 'validate' us? ;)
--
"Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith." --Hebrews 13:7. Itchy, tiredy, slammy, and allergy Tuesday.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

On 05/31/2023 12:54 AM, Ant wrote:
> James Cloos <cloos@jhcloos.com> wrote:
>> try out sdf.org
>
>> they provide a shell account, but also email and other services.
>
>> after signing up for the (free) basic account, you can upgrade to
>> one of the paid accounts, such as:
>
>> VPM [Mail Service] ($20 annual)
>
>> -JimC
>
> Who is on it to 'validate' us? ;)
>

I'll have to re-read the documentation.
My impression was that paying the fee associated with one of the levels
of service 'validated' one essentially as not being a 'bot'.

>
>
> Succeeded in setting up initial free account.
> Logged in twice with no problem.
>
> It was unclear how to initiate setting up the "VPM [Mail Service]".
> Does the administration of sdf.org have an externally available email
> address to report documentation problems?
>
>
>
>

You have to be very careful who you sign up with. Most small outfits
based in your local town will not survive for long. David Rose is lucky
to have his local shop allowing him to use their network but everybody
is moving to big guys such as Google, Microsoft, Yahoo and AOL. All of
them will allow you to create a special password to use on an
unsupported, insecure device such as SeaMonkey, or Thunderbird. They
also have a web interface which you will need to first setup the account
from scratch but you don't need to use the web based email if you don't
know how to use it. Initial setup is always on the web. There is no
avoiding this.

The days of Pop and even IMAP are almost over so even the big
brothers/guys may not support it for long. They need to generate
revenues so ads on their websites is one way to do this.

Have you checked with your ISP if they have a generic email service for
customers? What is the point of the ISP if they don't provide a basic
service such as email? I am guessing that you are not based in
Sub-Saharan Africa where service is not reliable or available.

>>>>> "RO" == Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> writes:

RO> It was unclear how to initiate setting up the "VPM [Mail Service]".
RO> Does the administration of sdf.org have an externally available email
RO> address to report documentation problems?

if you ssh in, /usr/local/bin/help provides info.

running vpm at the shell outputs this:

VPM members have immediate access to:

VPM - Virtual Pop3 Mail for your domain or an SDF domain
about 35 domains to choose from (type 'domains')
- You can also create aliases as public addresses protecting
your actual SDF login address. This would be useful for
sites that request an email address or for mailing lists

You too can become a VPM member of the ARPA group by sending in annual dues
of $20 (or more!) to SDF. Be sure to include your user id of 'cloos' with
your dues as well as the domain name you wish to use for VPM

LAND INTERNET (donations of $3.00 or more)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
| SDF Public Access UNIX | PAYPAL.COM: paypal@freeshell.org |
| PO BOX 17355 | |
| SEATTLE WA 98127 USA | (Be sure to include your user id) |
-----------------------------------------------------------------
| Donations or dues via crypto: E-mail 'membership' for options |
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Acceptable funds: Western Union, Cheques, Money Orders, US, CDN, EURO, UK, YEN

running arpa shows how to upgrade t that ($36 one time).

it looks like eail to membership should work.

(it has been so long since i set up my account i do not recall the
details...)

-JimC
--
James Cloos <cloos@jhcloos.com> OpenPGP: 0x997A9F17ED7DAEA6

On 05/31/2023 09:38 PM, James Cloos wrote:
>>>>>> "RO" == Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> writes:
>
> RO> It was unclear how to initiate setting up the "VPM [Mail Service]".
> RO> Does the administration of sdf.org have an externally available email
> RO> address to report documentation problems?
>
> if you ssh in, /usr/local/bin/help provides info.
>
> running vpm at the shell outputs this:
>
>
> VPM members have immediate access to:
>
> VPM - Virtual Pop3 Mail for your domain or an SDF domain
> about 35 domains to choose from (type 'domains')
> - You can also create aliases as public addresses protecting
> your actual SDF login address. This would be useful for
> sites that request an email address or for mailing lists
>
> You too can become a VPM member of the ARPA group by sending in annual dues
> of $20 (or more!) to SDF. Be sure to include your user id of 'cloos' with
> your dues as well as the domain name you wish to use for VPM
>
> LAND INTERNET (donations of $3.00 or more)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> | SDF Public Access UNIX | PAYPAL.COM: paypal@freeshell.org |
> | PO BOX 17355 | |
> | SEATTLE WA 98127 USA | (Be sure to include your user id) |
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> | Donations or dues via crypto: E-mail 'membership' for options |
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Acceptable funds: Western Union, Cheques, Money Orders, US, CDN, EURO, UK, YEN
>
>
> running arpa shows how to upgrade t that ($36 one time).
>
> it looks like eail to membership should work.
>
> (it has been so long since i set up my account i do not recall the
> details...)
>
> -JimC
>

I sent an email yesterday morning to membership. There's been no reply
yet. What turnaround time should I expect?

Is there a way, having logged in with SDF's HTML5 SSH client in a
SeaMonkey window, to save what appears in the 'terminal' for future
reference? Sometimes I yearn for my old DECwriter ;/

I'll dive into the tutorial wikis. Maybe one of them details the
mechanics of how an unvalidated user can use PayPal to pay a specific
type of dues.

Thanks

On 05/29/2023 01:19 PM, James Cloos wrote:
> try out sdf.org
>
> they provide a shell account, but also email and other services.
>
> after signing up for the (free) basic account, you can upgrade to
> one of the paid accounts, such as:
>
> VPM [Mail Service] ($20 annual)
>
> -JimC
>

Mailed check yesterday for dues and Mail Service.
Most of my questions were answered on the #helpdesk channel of
irc.sdf.org . So SDF has already expanded my horizons by introducing me
to IRC and ChatZilla.

Thank you

On 28 May 2023 at 13:02:14 CEST, "Richard Owlett" <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

> My email provider has notified me they are retiring their email and web
> hosting services [years ago they had ceased being an ISP].
> [ did I mention that was back in dial-up days. *ROFL*]
>
> I wish to continue using SeaMonkey as a plaintext POP email client.
> I date back to Netscape days and my habits are built around SeaMonkey.
> There is *NO* need/desire for encryption as >99% of emails are either:
> 1. high volume FOSS mailing lists
> 2. techie USENET groups
> [I treat "ANYthing on WEB as *PUBLIC*]
> I prefer services I explicitly pay for
> [i.e. There is no such thing as a free lunch ;]
>
> I will not consider browser based email as everything will be plain
> text. I prefer POP3 as that is what my current setup uses. If I
> understand correctly, a transition to IMAP should not be a major problem.
>

Mailfence: based in Belgium, no advertising, no tracing, only EU servers:
Try it for free and then you can upgrade or just pay 1 month for the premium
plans (my referral link):
https://mailfence.com/it/?src=onenet

Gabriele - onenet wrote:
> On 28 May 2023 at 13:02:14 CEST, "Richard Owlett" <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>
>> My email provider has notified me they are retiring their email and web
>> hosting services [years ago they had ceased being an ISP].
>> [ did I mention that was back in dial-up days. *ROFL*]
>>
>> I wish to continue using SeaMonkey as a plaintext POP email client.
>> I date back to Netscape days and my habits are built around SeaMonkey.
>> There is *NO* need/desire for encryption as >99% of emails are either:
>> 1. high volume FOSS mailing lists
>> 2. techie USENET groups
>> [I treat "ANYthing on WEB as *PUBLIC*]
>> I prefer services I explicitly pay for
>> [i.e. There is no such thing as a free lunch ;]
>>
>> I will not consider browser based email as everything will be plain
>> text. I prefer POP3 as that is what my current setup uses. If I
>> understand correctly, a transition to IMAP should not be a major problem.
>>
>
>
>
> Mailfence: based in Belgium, no advertising, no tracing, only EU servers:
> Try it for free and then you can upgrade or just pay 1 month for the premium
> plans (my referral link):
> https://mailfence.com/it/?src=onenet
>

Richard has previously indicated that he is in SW Missouri so "only EU
servers" may not be the selling point you think it is.

On 27 Jun 2023 at 15:17:07 CEST, "Don Spam's Reckless Son"
<hyperspace.flyover@vogon.gov.invalid> wrote:

> Gabriele - onenet wrote:
>> On 28 May 2023 at 13:02:14 CEST, "Richard Owlett" <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>>
>>> My email provider has notified me they are retiring their email and web
>>> hosting services [years ago they had ceased being an ISP].
>>> [ did I mention that was back in dial-up days. *ROFL*]
>>>
>>> I wish to continue using SeaMonkey as a plaintext POP email client.
>>> I date back to Netscape days and my habits are built around SeaMonkey.
>>> There is *NO* need/desire for encryption as >99% of emails are either:
>>> 1. high volume FOSS mailing lists
>>> 2. techie USENET groups
>>> [I treat "ANYthing on WEB as *PUBLIC*]
>>> I prefer services I explicitly pay for
>>> [i.e. There is no such thing as a free lunch ;]
>>>
>>> I will not consider browser based email as everything will be plain
>>> text. I prefer POP3 as that is what my current setup uses. If I
>>> understand correctly, a transition to IMAP should not be a major problem.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mailfence: based in Belgium, no advertising, no tracing, only EU servers:
>> Try it for free and then you can upgrade or just pay 1 month for the premium
>> plans (my referral link):
>> https://mailfence.com/it/?src=onenet
>>
>
> Richard has previously indicated that he is in SW Missouri so "only EU
> servers" may not be the selling point you think it is.

Right, but if you care for privacy it would :-)

On 06/27/2023 12:13 PM, Gabriele - onenet wrote:
> On 27 Jun 2023 at 15:17:07 CEST, "Don Spam's Reckless Son"
> <hyperspace.flyover@vogon.gov.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Gabriele - onenet wrote:
>>> On 28 May 2023 at 13:02:14 CEST, "Richard Owlett" <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My email provider has notified me they are retiring their email and web
>>>> hosting services [years ago they had ceased being an ISP].
>>>> [ did I mention that was back in dial-up days. *ROFL*]
>>>>
>>>> I wish to continue using SeaMonkey as a plaintext POP email client.
>>>> I date back to Netscape days and my habits are built around SeaMonkey.
>>>> There is *NO* need/desire for encryption as >99% of emails are either:
>>>> 1. high volume FOSS mailing lists
>>>> 2. techie USENET groups
>>>> [I treat "ANYthing on WEB as *PUBLIC*]
>>>> I prefer services I explicitly pay for
>>>> [i.e. There is no such thing as a free lunch ;]
>>>>
>>>> I will not consider browser based email as everything will be plain
>>>> text. I prefer POP3 as that is what my current setup uses. If I
>>>> understand correctly, a transition to IMAP should not be a major problem.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mailfence: based in Belgium, no advertising, no tracing, only EU servers:
>>> Try it for free and then you can upgrade or just pay 1 month for the premium
>>> plans (my referral link):
>>> https://mailfence.com/it/?src=onenet
>>>
>>
>> Richard has previously indicated that he is in SW Missouri so "only EU
>> servers" may not be the selling point you think it is.
>
>
> Right, but if you care for privacy it would :-)
>

I chose sdf.org [1][2] for multiple reasons.

My "privacy" concerns were could be summarized more around when a for
profit entity {gmail} screams *FREE* run the other way. They focus on
concealing the PRICE you pay. Also I wanted an on shore provider as I
have a better idea of the environment (be it legal or cultural).

I'm not up to speed yet. But that points to one of its advantages --
it's a learning experience. And I think I may be able to contribute.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDF_Public_Access_Unix_System
[2] https://sdf.org/?faq