I am now so far that I can select fonts.
I use at the moment Carlito instead of the default LMRoman. (And that
looks a lot better. Can I make that my default font?)
There are almost 4,500 fonts on my system. A lot are variations of the
same, but still it is to much to explore.
Is there a good resource that explains which fonts to use in which
situation?

--
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> writes:

> Is there a good resource that explains which fonts to use in which
> situation?

Typography books such as Bringhurst.

Axel Reichert <mail@axel-reichert.de> writes:

> Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> writes:
>
>> Is there a good resource that explains which fonts to use in which
>> situation?
>
> Typography books such as Bringhurst.

Is the 2013 edition the last version?
If not: is it important to have the last version?

--
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

On 05/10/2022 01:27, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> I am now so far that I can select fonts.
> There are almost 4,500 fonts on my system. A lot are variations of
> the same, but still it is to much to explore.
:-) That's not uncommon. The variations are the actual fonts (eg
bold-italic or roman or italic or bold) and the family to which they
belong is the typeface. A useful distinction that many users don't
encounter.

Welcome to the wonderful world of typefaces. You have now been
assimilated. In future, you will never look at a piece of typesetting
without wondering what the typefaces were, what others could have been
used, and whether you could have done a better job yourself :-)

> I use at the moment Carlito instead of the default LMRoman. (And that
> looks a lot better. Can I make that my default font?)

Not internally, without massive rewriting: the built-in Computer Modern
is designed to be omnipresent as the fallback. But you can easily create
a little package of your own that you can use in every document, that
invokes fontspec and then Carlito and whatever other fonts you want for
the roman and monospace, plus any packages you find you use every time.
Then you can \usepackage{cecil} (or whatever you call it) as the second
line of every document.

> Is there a good resource that explains which fonts to use in which
> situation?

Thousands of web pages telling you what other people think you should
use :-) The few good books about typographic design very carefully AVOID
telling you what typeface to use because it's largely a matter of taste.
I mentioned one story by John Lewis (in TUGboat at
https://tug.org/TUGboat/tb39-1/tb121inn.pdf):

>> [...] about designing examples illustrating the choice of
>> typefaces; delicate little script fonts for cosmetic adverts,
>> classical, formal, respectable roman faces for banks, big chunky
>> sans-serif fonts for engineering, and so on; only to discover after
>> a while that he could ‘change the typefaces around at will and with
>> ever increasing effect’ [1, p 52].
There *are* some technical reasons why certain faces don't work in
certain circumstances, usually in cases of physical printing, rather
than when generating a PDF for online-only use. Charles Fyffe warns
specifically of a couple:

>> [...] one over-riding rule — avoid "spiky" faces, or faces with
>> hairline thins and serifs on *art* (coated) paper. Until you know
>> more about faces and how they behave, use these on art paper:
>> Century, Emerson, Ehrhardt, Goudy Modern,Imprint, Ionic,
>> Poliphilus, Plantin, Plantin Light, Romulus Bold, Egyptian or
>> sans-serif. Despite common practice, Times is *not* suited to art
>> paper.
>>
>> For gravure, avoid a face with hairlines, which tend to break up in
>> the process.
>>
>> In body matter great care is needed in using sans serif faces. I
>> know they are immensely fashionable at the moment, but they need
>> careful handling, and even then they tend to tire the reader if
>> they are used at great length.¹
>>
>> Vincent Steer, a famous typographer of an earlier generation, was
>> once asked, 'How can I learn to mix typefaces?' and he replied,
>> 'Learn their histories.' Until you have done so, a good rule is to
>> use the related bold of the body face. If there isn't one, use a
>> sans, but make sure it is bold enough. Few things look worse than
>> a display sans lighter than the body face.
>> [...]
>>
>> ----------
>> ¹ I am aware that tests have been done to prove a sans-serif (and
>> a black-letter) face is as easy to read as a serifed roman. I am
>> reminded of the _New Yorker_ cartoon "Do me a research to prove 9
>> out of 10 housewives prefer it." [2, pp.53-4]
I'm afraid that after a lifetime spent with typefaces, I still can't
come up with any hard and fast "rules" about what to use where.

Peter

1. John Lewis. Typography: Basic principles: Influences and trends since
the 19th century. Studio Books, London, Jan 1963.

2. Charles Fyffe. Basic Copyfitting. Studio Vista, London, 1969.

Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> writes:

> Axel Reichert <mail@axel-reichert.de> writes:
>
>> Cecil Westerhof <Cecil@decebal.nl> writes:
>>
>>> Is there a good resource that explains which fonts to use in which
>>> situation?
>>
>> Typography books such as Bringhurst.
>
> Is the 2013 edition the last version?

Yes, it is the latest version. wikipedia.org say 4.0 from 2012 is the
latest, while bol.com says 4.0 from 2013.

And it is not to expensive. (I saw a version for € 250,- and this one
is € 32,-.)

--
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

Peter Flynn <peter@silmaril.ie> writes:

> On 05/10/2022 01:27, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
>> I am now so far that I can select fonts.
>> There are almost 4,500 fonts on my system. A lot are variations of
>> the same, but still it is to much to explore.
> :-) That's not uncommon. The variations are the actual fonts (eg
> bold-italic or roman or italic or bold) and the family to which they
> belong is the typeface. A useful distinction that many users don't
> encounter.
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of typefaces. You have now been
> assimilated. In future, you will never look at a piece of typesetting
> without wondering what the typefaces were, what others could have been
> used, and whether you could have done a better job yourself :-)

I really doubted that I am going to think the latter.

>> I use at the moment Carlito instead of the default LMRoman. (And that
>> looks a lot better. Can I make that my default font?)
>
> Not internally, without massive rewriting: the built-in Computer Modern
> is designed to be omnipresent as the fallback. But you can easily create
> a little package of your own that you can use in every document, that
> invokes fontspec and then Carlito and whatever other fonts you want for
> the roman and monospace, plus any packages you find you use every time.
> Then you can \usepackage{cecil} (or whatever you call it) as the second
> line of every document.

That is certainly good enough.

>> Is there a good resource that explains which fonts to use in which
>> situation?
>
> Thousands of web pages telling you what other people think you should
> use :-) The few good books about typographic design very carefully AVOID
> telling you what typeface to use because it's largely a matter of
> taste.

Well, my problem is that I am very functional. I am mostly focused on
the message and not the package it comes in. (And yes, I know: I
should do both.) I had no problem with the font, but one person almost
threw up when I showed it. He told me to use Calibri. I did not have
that, but I do have Carlito and was told this is mostly the same. When
I replaced it, it was immediately clear to me that that looks much
better.

> I'm afraid that after a lifetime spent with typefaces, I still can't
> come up with any hard and fast "rules" about what to use where.

Well thanks for all the information.

--
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

On 05/10/2022 12:42, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Peter Flynn <peter@silmaril.ie> writes:
>> [...] and whether you could have done a better job yourself :-)
>
> I really doubted that I am going to think the latter.

"You will, Oscar, you will." [James McNeill Whistler]

> [...] I had no problem with the font, but one person almost threw up
> when I showed it.

Oh dear. A severe case normally reserved for Comic Sans :-)

> He told me to use Calibri. I did not have that, but I do have Carlito
> and was told this is mostly the same. When I replaced it, it was
> immediately clear to me that that looks much better.
Carlito has a wider set than Calibri, and is fractionally heavier, but
otherwise they are indeed mostly the same. A lot will depend on the
length of the document, and all your other parameters like margins, line
length, baselines, and other spacing.

Peter

On Wed, 05 Oct 2022 02:27:51 +0200, Cecil Westerhof wrote:

> Is there a good resource that explains which fonts to use
> in which situation?

Simon Garfield: Just My Type; Gotham Books 2011.

For help selecting fonts with LaTeX support:
The LaTeX Font Catalogue:

https://tug.org/FontCatalogue/

Bob T.