What happened? !!!! All screwed up.

Does this look familiar? https://imgur.com/a/8AdE8gl If you can't see
it the table of contents page is totally screwed up. Nonsense in most
lines of most fields.

Recent upgrade from 1.93 to 4, but it's been working fine for at least a
couple weeks, 60 or more header downloads, and the other ngs worked fine
after this happened.

The entry count in the bottom right is way down, but the .DAT file is
234 megs going back 5 or 10 years. Is that a problem? The IDX is 123K
I have a backup from a couple days ago.

Should I upgrade to 5? or 7.2? IIRC, I didn't like 6.

note for self 0000167c.dat & idx.

I presume this won't fix itself, by restarting Agent for example, and
there is no way for me to fix it but to replace it with the backup,
right?

In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, on Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:16:34
-0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

>What happened? !!!! All screwed up.
>
>Does this look familiar? https://imgur.com/a/8AdE8gl If you can't see
>it the table of contents page is totally screwed up. Nonsense in most
>lines of most fields.
>
>Recent upgrade from 1.93 to 4, but it's been working fine for at least a
>couple weeks, 60 or more header downloads, and the other ngs worked fine
>after this happened.
>
>The entry count in the bottom right is way down, but the .DAT file is
>234 megs going back 5 or 10 years. Is that a problem? The IDX is 123K
>I have a backup from a couple days ago.
>
>Should I upgrade to 5? or 7.2? IIRC, I didn't like 6.
>
>
>
>note for self 0000167c.dat & idx.

On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:16:34 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

> What happened? !!!! All screwed up.
>
> Does this look familiar? https://imgur.com/a/8AdE8gl If you can't see
> it the table of contents page is totally screwed up. Nonsense in most
> lines of most fields.
>
My version of Agent looks like that when the cat sits on the Z key to
zoom the view.

Press Z again to un-zoom or use the view menu

--
Regards

John

In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, on Sun, 15 Oct 2023 14:57:13
+0100, John <john.geneal@googlemail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:16:34 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
>
>> What happened? !!!! All screwed up.
>>
>> Does this look familiar? https://imgur.com/a/8AdE8gl If you can't see
>> it the table of contents page is totally screwed up. Nonsense in most
>> lines of most fields.
>>
>My version of Agent looks like that when the cat sits on the Z key to
>zoom the view.
>
>Press Z again to un-zoom or use the view menu

Okay, I just tried that, but it's not the fact that it's 1 pane instead
of 3, it's the contents of the fields.

(I hadn't gotten past the table of contents page before but after using
Z, what should have been individual posts were showing, but they are all
screwed up too.)

On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 10:18:11 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, on Sun, 15 Oct 2023 14:57:13
>+0100, John <john.geneal@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:16:34 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> What happened? !!!! All screwed up.
>>>
>>> Does this look familiar? https://imgur.com/a/8AdE8gl If you can't see
>>> it the table of contents page is totally screwed up. Nonsense in most
>>> lines of most fields.
>>>
>>My version of Agent looks like that when the cat sits on the Z key to
>>zoom the view.
>>
>>Press Z again to un-zoom or use the view menu
>
>Okay, I just tried that, but it's not the fact that it's 1 pane instead
>of 3, it's the contents of the fields.
>
>(I hadn't gotten past the table of contents page before but after using
>Z, what should have been individual posts were showing, but they are all
>screwed up too.)

What "table of contents" page? For the Help file?

That said, I don't doubt that the things shown are ... problematic.
2038 is 15 years in the future, for one thing. The "Get message body
task" is going to be queued a long long time.

So, even the posts that at least have sane-looking ("Condenser fan
motor substitute" looks sane to me) are messed up when opened?

I would say "data corruption", but I'm sure that's already occurred to
you and wouldn't be very helpful in any case.

Oh, well, at least I learned something -- how Agent uses the Z key.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, on Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:40:11
-0700, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 10:18:11 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
>wrote:
>
>>In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, on Sun, 15 Oct 2023 14:57:13
>>+0100, John <john.geneal@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:16:34 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> What happened? !!!! All screwed up.
>>>>
>>>> Does this look familiar? https://imgur.com/a/8AdE8gl If you can't see
>>>> it the table of contents page is totally screwed up. Nonsense in most
>>>> lines of most fields.
>>>>
>>>My version of Agent looks like that when the cat sits on the Z key to
>>>zoom the view.
>>>
>>>Press Z again to un-zoom or use the view menu
>>
>>Okay, I just tried that, but it's not the fact that it's 1 pane instead
>>of 3, it's the contents of the fields.
>>
>>(I hadn't gotten past the table of contents page before but after using
>>Z, what should have been individual posts were showing, but they are all
>>screwed up too.)
>
>What "table of contents" page? For the Help file?

Not that. What do you call the page that lists all the posts?
>
>That said, I don't doubt that the things shown are ... problematic.
>2038 is 15 years in the future, for one thing. The "Get message body
>task" is going to be queued a long long time.
>
>So, even the posts that at least have sane-looking ("Condenser fan
>motor substitute" looks sane to me) are messed up when opened?
>
>I would say "data corruption", but I'm sure that's already occurred to
>you and wouldn't be very helpful in any case.

So what causes data corruption? And if that causes it, how come it's
not more common?

>Oh, well, at least I learned something -- how Agent uses the Z key.

I coudln't wait anymore and I figured there was no "cure" except for
using the backup which is 2 days old. That's not bad. I used Sample
to catch up to where I was and on to where I should be. So except for
redoing what happened those two days, I'm back on track.

In Message-ID:<nvjoiipoqkrso0usjc0moek3oce7fqhf01@4ax.com>,
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

>>I would say "data corruption", but I'm sure that's already occurred to
>>you and wouldn't be very helpful in any case.
>
>So what causes data corruption? And if that causes it, how come it's
>not more common?

Many things cause data corruption. It's not rare. Solar eclipses are
not all that rare, but they seem so because they generally don't
happen where you are.

>I coudln't wait anymore and I figured there was no "cure" except for
>using the backup which is 2 days old.

Data corruption, HD failures, and stupid user mistakes can all make
data unavailable. All have happened to me. I do backups religiously
(as in, not only do I do so, I preach backups to the unbelievers).
I'm glad you didn't lose much.

--
Arthur T. - ar23hur "at" pobox "dot" com

On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:16:34 -0400, micky wrote:

> What happened? !!!! All screwed up.
>
> Does this look familiar? https://imgur.com/a/8AdE8gl If you can't see
> it the table of contents page is totally screwed up. Nonsense in most
> lines of most fields.
>
> Recent upgrade from 1.93 to 4, but it's been working fine for at least a
> couple weeks, 60 or more header downloads, and the other ngs worked fine
> after this happened.
>
> The entry count in the bottom right is way down, but the .DAT file is
> 234 megs going back 5 or 10 years. Is that a problem? The IDX is 123K
> I have a backup from a couple days ago.
>
> Should I upgrade to 5? or 7.2? IIRC, I didn't like 6.

I have seen that very occasionally, but the last time would have
been a number of years ago.

You might also see some screwed up posts dated 1969 or 1970 at the
other end of the message list.

Something has corrupted the folder's .IDX and/or .DAT files.

You can repair much of it with "File >> Repair Selected Folders"
(available since Agent 3.3). But you will get a better repair by
restoring the folder's .IDX and .DAT files from backup (both from
the same backup of course).

Some suggestions to help avoid this happening in future:
1. Don't let any other program access the files in Agent's data
folder while Agent is running. This includes:
* backup software
* antivirus
* search indexers
2. Do a full reboot of your computer (not a shut down and start up)
at least once a week to clear out any memory errors. A normal
shut down and start up will hibernate the windows kernel, saving
any memory errors that are in the memory being hibernated.
3. I have learned not to make changes in a folder while Agent is
updating the same folder. (In my experience this has more bad
effect on email than on Usenet).

I don't know that upgrading to a later version than your 4.2 would do
much avoid it.

FYI regarding the strange dates...

18-Jan-2038 22:14 EST = 19-Jan-2038 03:14 GMT = the end of all time in Agent's message list (Unix time 2147483647).
31-Dec-1969 19:00 EST = 01-Jan-1970 00:00 GMT = the beginning of time in Agent's message list (Unix time 0).

--
Kind regards
Ralph Fox

Spring is sprung, the grass is riz, I wonder where the birdies is.
They say the bird is on the wing — but that’s absurd; I thought the wing was on the bird.

On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 16:51:10 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:

>In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, on Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:40:11
>-0700, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 10:18:11 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, on Sun, 15 Oct 2023 14:57:13
>>>+0100, John <john.geneal@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:16:34 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What happened? !!!! All screwed up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this look familiar? https://imgur.com/a/8AdE8gl If you can't see
>>>>> it the table of contents page is totally screwed up. Nonsense in most
>>>>> lines of most fields.
>>>>>
>>>>My version of Agent looks like that when the cat sits on the Z key to
>>>>zoom the view.
>>>>
>>>>Press Z again to un-zoom or use the view menu
>>>
>>>Okay, I just tried that, but it's not the fact that it's 1 pane instead
>>>of 3, it's the contents of the fields.
>>>
>>>(I hadn't gotten past the table of contents page before but after using
>>>Z, what should have been individual posts were showing, but they are all
>>>screwed up too.)
>>
>>What "table of contents" page? For the Help file?
>
>Not that. What do you call the page that lists all the posts?

The Forte Help file calls it the "Message List Pane".

As differentiated from the "Message Pane", which is where the message
itself appears. This is also called the "Body Pane" or the "Message
Body Pane", at least in the Forte Help File.

I, myself, don't usually have any occasion to to call it anything.

>>That said, I don't doubt that the things shown are ... problematic.
>>2038 is 15 years in the future, for one thing. The "Get message body
>>task" is going to be queued a long long time.
>>
>>So, even the posts that at least have sane-looking ("Condenser fan
>>motor substitute" looks sane to me) are messed up when opened?
>>
>>I would say "data corruption", but I'm sure that's already occurred to
>>you and wouldn't be very helpful in any case.
>
>So what causes data corruption? And if that causes it, how come it's
>not more common?

See, that's why mentioning it isn't very helpful.

There was a utility called "SpinRite" that was used to identify disk
sectors that had been zapped by cosmic rays and recover the data (if
possible). It's not heard of any more because hard drives have long
incorporated similar error correction on the drive itself. The larger
the drive, the more likely it will get hit. Most hits are minor. A hit
in the Master Boot Record is a total disaster.

>>Oh, well, at least I learned something -- how Agent uses the Z key.
>
>I coudln't wait anymore and I figured there was no "cure" except for
>using the backup which is 2 days old. That's not bad. I used Sample
>to catch up to where I was and on to where I should be. So except for
>redoing what happened those two days, I'm back on track.

My ultimate defense against computer irregularites are backups for
data, and System Restore points for Windows -- which seems to be
getting flakier and flakier.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"