This has been vexing me for a while, the most frustrating aspect being
its apparent inconsistency. Example: emailed myself a link late last
night from my iPad's Safari browser, using the Mail option. It was
addressed to my BT address, and sent from my gmail address. iPad gave
its usual 'whoosh' indication of a successful send. But it was not in my
Agent Inbox this morning. Despite several repetitions of 'Get new
email'.

So I then opened Safari again, found the intended page, and repeated the
email send. This time it promptly arrived in Agent. Can't see any
relevant distinction between these two tasks.

Any ideas on possible cause please? Luckily I remembered this important
link, but obviously I need to be able to depend on receiving the email.

Terry

On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:13:30 +0100, Terry Pinnell
<me@somewhere.invalid> wrote:

> I need to be able to depend on receiving the email.

Do not expect to always get what was sent to you. E-mail can be weird
some days--or it could be the message causing the problem. Spam
filters on the various e-mail systems do "catch" stuff that is not
spam and delete it, and you would never know what happened.

On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:13:30 +0100, Terry Pinnell wrote:

> This has been vexing me for a while, the most frustrating aspect being
> its apparent inconsistency. Example: emailed myself a link late last
> night from my iPad's Safari browser, using the Mail option. It was
> addressed to my BT address, and sent from my gmail address. iPad gave
> its usual 'whoosh' indication of a successful send. But it was not in my
> Agent Inbox this morning. Despite several repetitions of 'Get new
> email'.
>
> So I then opened Safari again, found the intended page, and repeated the
> email send. This time it promptly arrived in Agent. Can't see any
> relevant distinction between these two tasks.
>
> Any ideas on possible cause please? Luckily I remembered this important
> link, but obviously I need to be able to depend on receiving the email.
>
> Terry

> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118

I trust you have already checked Agent's "Tools >> Review Recent Email"
to see if the missing email was received, and perhaps automatically
filed into another folder in Agent.

Your email does _not_ go directly from your iPad's Safari browser to
your BT Inbox. There are several stops on the way. Your email goes
from one email server to another to another ... [^1] on the way.

The 'whoosh' indication only means your email got to the first email
server in the chain [^1]. It does not mean the email got to the end
of the chain and landed in your Inbox. One of the other mail servers
could have treated your email as spam.

If your email was treated as spam, it might be in your BT email spam
folder. Log on to your BT email at <https://www.bt.com/email> and
look in the spam folder. Agent only receives email that is put into
your BT email 'Inbox' folder, not email that is put into your BT email
spam folder.

If the email did not go far enough along the chain [^1], then it may
not be in your spam folder. If an email was discarded as spam, do not
expect to get a bounce message back in your Gmail account.

____
FOOTNOTE

[^1] This is how to see the chain of email servers which an email
passes through from your Gmail account to your BT account:

1. Find the email which did arrive;
2. Press 'H' to view the full headers.
3. Look at all the "Received:" headers, working upward from
the bottom to the top.

The bottom "Received:" header is added by the first email
server in the chain.
The next "Received:" header up is the next email server in
the chain.
And so on...

--
Kind regards
Ralph Fox

There’s many a slip ’twixt the cup and the lip.
🖎 🖅 🡺💨 🗄 🡺 🗄 🡺 🗄 🡺 🗄 🡺 🗄 🡺 🗄 🡺 🗄 🡺 📥︎ 🡺 🕵 🡺 🗀︎

In Message-ID:<fjuagihgg1ia7mgfe8r9uobsoaih8bk70h@4ax.com>,
Terry Pinnell <me@somewhere.invalid> wrote:

>This has been vexing me for a while, the most frustrating aspect being
>its apparent inconsistency. Example: emailed myself a link late last
>night from my iPad's Safari browser, using the Mail option. It was
>addressed to my BT address, and sent from my gmail address. iPad gave
>its usual 'whoosh' indication of a successful send. But it was not in my
>Agent Inbox this morning. Despite several repetitions of 'Get new
>email'.

In addition to what others have said, it could be in transit. I have
received an e-mail at least 3 days after I know it was sent.

--
Arthur T. - ar23hur "at" pobox "dot" com

On Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:13:30 +0100, Terry Pinnell
<me@somewhere.invalid> wrote:

>This has been vexing me for a while, the most frustrating aspect being
>its apparent inconsistency. Example: emailed myself a link late last
>night from my iPad's Safari browser, using the Mail option. It was
>addressed to my BT address, and sent from my gmail address. iPad gave
>its usual 'whoosh' indication of a successful send. But it was not in my
>Agent Inbox this morning. Despite several repetitions of 'Get new
>email'.
>
>So I then opened Safari again, found the intended page, and repeated the
>email send. This time it promptly arrived in Agent. Can't see any
>relevant distinction between these two tasks.
>
>Any ideas on possible cause please? Luckily I remembered this important
>link, but obviously I need to be able to depend on receiving the email.
>
>Terry

I have noticed a special handling of emails sent to my gmail-account.
It looks like gmail will only send an email to one recipient. Look at
it this way: You send an email to your gmail-address. The mail is then
lying on Googles server waiting to be downloaded. As soon as one
program, say Agent has fetched the mail, another program, say
Thunderbird, will not get this mail when checking for new mail from
gmail. Note that this is happening also when Agant has a mark in
setting "Leave messages on server".
For me this is happening often as i have mailprograms on 2 PC's, a
mobile and Thunderbird in a Linux installation on a Raspberrypi. Mails
sent to my gmail-account is only seen on the device that first checks
for email. But of course you can check your gmail directly in a
browser, and you will see all recieved emails.

--
Jesper Kaas - jesperk@neindanke.online.no

On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 03:10:09 +0200, Jesper Kaas
<jesperk@neitakk.online.no> wrote:

>I have noticed a special handling of emails sent to my gmail-account.
>It looks like gmail will only send an email to one recipient. Look at
>it this way: You send an email to your gmail-address. The mail is then
>lying on Googles server waiting to be downloaded. As soon as one
>program, say Agent has fetched the mail, another program, say
>Thunderbird, will not get this mail when checking for new mail from
>gmail. Note that this is happening also when Agant has a mark in
>setting "Leave messages on server".
>For me this is happening often as i have mailprograms on 2 PC's, a
>mobile and Thunderbird in a Linux installation on a Raspberrypi. Mails
>sent to my gmail-account is only seen on the device that first checks
>for email. But of course you can check your gmail directly in a
>browser, and you will see all recieved emails.

A correction to the above: The mailprogram on my Android
cell-phone/mobile allways shows mails sent to my gmail-adress, even if
mail is allready recieved in Agent and/or Thunderbird.
--
Jesper Kaas - jesperk@neindanke.online.no

On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 03:10:09 +0200, Jesper Kaas wrote:

> I have noticed a special handling of emails sent to my gmail-account.
> It looks like gmail will only send an email to one recipient. Look at
> it this way: You send an email to your gmail-address. The mail is then
> lying on Googles server waiting to be downloaded. As soon as one
> program, say Agent has fetched the mail, another program, say
> Thunderbird, will not get this mail when checking for new mail from
> gmail. Note that this is happening also when Agant has a mark in
> setting "Leave messages on server".

To download email from Gmail to more than one program using POP3,
you need to use Gmail's "recent mode".

For details, go to this Gmail support page and look in the
section "I want to download emails on multiple email clients".
<https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7104828#zippy=%2Ci-want-to-download-emails-on-multiple-email-clients>

Also see <https://support.google.com/a/answer/6089246>.

This only affects programs (like Agent) that use POP3 to fetch email
It does not affect programs that use IMAP to fetch email.

> For me this is happening often as i have mailprograms on 2 PC's, a
> mobile and Thunderbird in a Linux installation on a Raspberrypi. Mails
> sent to my gmail-account is only seen on the device that first checks
> for email. But of course you can check your gmail directly in a
> browser, and you will see all recieved emails.

--
Kind regards
Ralph Fox

Ne sceal man to ær forht ne to ær fægen.

On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 14:35:16 +1200, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
wrote:

>To download email from Gmail to more than one program using POP3,
>you need to use Gmail's "recent mode".
>
>For details, go to this Gmail support page and look in the
>section "I want to download emails on multiple email clients".
><https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7104828#zippy=%2Ci-want-to-download-emails-on-multiple-email-clients>
>
>Also see <https://support.google.com/a/answer/6089246>.
>
>This only affects programs (like Agent) that use POP3 to fetch email
>It does not affect programs that use IMAP to fetch email.

Thank you very much Ralph, now I get gmail "all over the place", no
matter which client first downloads the mail. What did the trick was
to put "recent:" in front of my username in Agents definitions for
pop.gmail.com.
Right after the change (adding "recent:" in front of username), Agent
downloade 500-1000 old gmails in several batches, but once that had
stopped, it works fine. No changes made in Thunderbird.

Best regards
--
Jesper Kaas - jesperk@neindanke.online.no

On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 20:32:53 +0200, Jesper Kaas wrote:

> Thank you very much Ralph, now I get gmail "all over the place", no
> matter which client first downloads the mail.

You're welcome.

> What did the trick was
> to put "recent:" in front of my username in Agents definitions for
> pop.gmail.com.

Jesper Kaas <jesperk@neitakk.online.no> wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 14:35:16 +1200, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>To download email from Gmail to more than one program using POP3,
>>you need to use Gmail's "recent mode".
>>
>>For details, go to this Gmail support page and look in the
>>section "I want to download emails on multiple email clients".
>><https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7104828#zippy=%2Ci-want-to-download-emails-on-multiple-email-clients>
>>
>>Also see <https://support.google.com/a/answer/6089246>.
>>
>>This only affects programs (like Agent) that use POP3 to fetch email
>>It does not affect programs that use IMAP to fetch email.
>
>Thank you very much Ralph, now I get gmail "all over the place", no
>matter which client first downloads the mail. What did the trick was
>to put "recent:" in front of my username in Agents definitions for
>pop.gmail.com.
>Right after the change (adding "recent:" in front of username), Agent
>downloade 500-1000 old gmails in several batches, but once that had
>stopped, it works fine. No changes made in Thunderbird.
>
>Best regards

Ralph, Jasper:

That fixed it for me too, many thanks.

Terry

Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 03:10:09 +0200, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>
>> I have noticed a special handling of emails sent to my gmail-account.
>> It looks like gmail will only send an email to one recipient. Look at
>> it this way: You send an email to your gmail-address. The mail is then
>> lying on Googles server waiting to be downloaded. As soon as one
>> program, say Agent has fetched the mail, another program, say
>> Thunderbird, will not get this mail when checking for new mail from
>> gmail. Note that this is happening also when Agant has a mark in
>> setting "Leave messages on server".
>
>
>To download email from Gmail to more than one program using POP3,
>you need to use Gmail's "recent mode".
>
>For details, go to this Gmail support page and look in the
>section "I want to download emails on multiple email clients".
><https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7104828#zippy=%2Ci-want-to-download-emails-on-multiple-email-clients>
>
>Also see <https://support.google.com/a/answer/6089246>.
>
>This only affects programs (like Agent) that use POP3 to fetch email
>It does not affect programs that use IMAP to fetch email.
>
>
>> For me this is happening often as i have mailprograms on 2 PC's, a
>> mobile and Thunderbird in a Linux installation on a Raspberrypi. Mails
>> sent to my gmail-account is only seen on the device that first checks
>> for email. But of course you can check your gmail directly in a
>> browser, and you will see all recieved emails.

Became aware of this again today. Agent settings for my BT POP account
no longer show 'recent:' prefixed to my email username. Added it again,
but now get error:

An error has occurred in an online task.
Error: Server BT (POP) rejected your username and password
(Invalid user name or password).
Task: Get new email from BT (POP)
Server: BT (POP) (mail.btinternet.com)
Time: 28109123 10:29:44
Status: Retry in 58 seconds

Google > All Settings > Forwarding and POP/IMAP looks OK. Agent BT-POP
incoming settings too. Both below:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1b4ykfjtmjq6apnjxl289/BT-POP.jpg?rlkey=8eqb2ciktp0gi9a140nl1q47d&raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/aknqhitbxlgxcgmnapdee/GM-Settings-Re-POP.jpg?rlkey=1maokr1aj6689ol7ztq4tk1ky&raw=1

Jasper: Does the 'Recent:' prefix survive for you?

Terry

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 11:11:11 +0100, Terry Pinnell wrote:
> Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2023 03:10:09 +0200, Jesper Kaas wrote:
>>
>>> I have noticed a special handling of emails sent to my gmail-account.
>>> It looks like gmail will only send an email to one recipient. Look at
>>> it this way: You send an email to your gmail-address. The mail is then
>>> lying on Googles server waiting to be downloaded. As soon as one
>>> program, say Agent has fetched the mail, another program, say
>>> Thunderbird, will not get this mail when checking for new mail from
>>> gmail. Note that this is happening also when Agant has a mark in
>>> setting "Leave messages on server".
>>
>>
>> To download email from Gmail to more than one program using POP3,
>> you need to use Gmail's "recent mode".
>>
>> For details, go to this Gmail support page and look in the
>> section "I want to download emails on multiple email clients".
>> <https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7104828#zippy=%2Ci-want-to-download-emails-on-multiple-email-clients>
>>
>> Also see <https://support.google.com/a/answer/6089246>.
>>
>> This only affects programs (like Agent) that use POP3 to fetch email
>> It does not affect programs that use IMAP to fetch email.
>>
>>
>>> For me this is happening often as i have mailprograms on 2 PC's, a
>>> mobile and Thunderbird in a Linux installation on a Raspberrypi. Mails
>>> sent to my gmail-account is only seen on the device that first checks
>>> for email. But of course you can check your gmail directly in a
>>> browser, and you will see all recieved emails.
>
> Became aware of this again today. Agent settings for my BT POP account
> no longer show 'recent:' prefixed to my email username.

It is the _Gmail_ account which would have had “recent:”.
Not the _BT_ account.

> Added it again,
> but now get error:
>
> An error has occurred in an online task.
> Error: Server BT (POP) rejected your username and password
> (Invalid user name or password).
> Task: Get new email from BT (POP)
> Server: BT (POP) (mail.btinternet.com)
> Time: 28109123 10:29:44
> Status: Retry in 58 seconds

Terry, Terry, Terry

The “recent:” mode thing is for downloading email from a _Gmail_ account.
It is _not_ for downloading email from a _BT_ account.

BT does not have a “recent:” mode.

This “recent:” mode thing is a Gmail special. It is not standard POP3.

> Google > All Settings > Forwarding and POP/IMAP looks OK. Agent BT-POP
> incoming settings too. Both below:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1b4ykfjtmjq6apnjxl289/BT-POP.jpg?rlkey=8eqb2ciktp0gi9a140nl1q47d&raw=1
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/aknqhitbxlgxcgmnapdee/GM-Settings-Re-POP.jpg?rlkey=1maokr1aj6689ol7ztq4tk1ky&raw=1
>
> Jasper: Does the 'Recent:' prefix survive for you?
>
> Terry

--
Kind regards
Ralph Fox

Nu hit ys on swines dome, cwæð se ceorl sæt on eoferes hricge.

On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 07:08:30 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
wrote:

>> Jasper: Does the 'Recent:' prefix survive for you?
>> Terry
Yes, for my gmail-account it survives and works.
--
Jesper Kaas - jesperk@neindanke.online.no

Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:

>It is the _Gmail_ account which would have had “recent:”.
>Not the _BT_ account.

That's not what it says in the Gmail instructions Ralph. Nor was that
the way I did it successfully for a (brief) period before. (As did
Jesper I believe.)

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/otty2yveaoqr72hw5c0ma/RecentMode.jpg?rlkey=4pnu9cajm0k3i7c514d9nqqvu&raw=1

But there's definitely something going wrong here. Checked Agent
settings just now - and the 'recent' prefix has disappeared yet again!

Perhaps there is some Gmail setting that I have set differently to
Jesper. If so I don't see it mentioned in the instructions.

VERY annoying...

Terry

Terry Pinnell <me@somewhere.invalid> wrote:

>Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>It is the _Gmail_ account which would have had “recent:”.
>>Not the _BT_ account.
>
You are as usual absolutely right, sorry!

I not only mis-read your accurate answer but was also looking in the
wrong place in Agent's servers. On both occasions!

The 'recent' prefix is still in place. So the only remaining question is
why I was not getting my iPad-sent Gmails getting to their BT email
address in Agent's Inbox for some days. I'll do some (more) methodical
tests.

Terry

On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 15:10:08 +0100, Terry Pinnell wrote:

> So the only remaining question is
> why I was not getting my iPad-sent Gmails getting to their BT email
> address in Agent's Inbox for some days. I'll do some (more) methodical
> tests.

Don’t forget the first three replies in this thread.

* Message-ID: <r7fbgid8864hjt1ghlo833aqah40g6u4ik@4ax.com>
* Message-ID: <2e3cgi15lcd7qpid6cqkle20ls0v2n9uv1@4ax.com>
* Message-ID: <j75cgipeft4tok75sl1flqmthj94fpru9n@4ax.com>

--
Kind regards
Ralph Fox

“Ofte rap reweþ,” quoþ Hendyng.

On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:58:54 +0100, Terry Pinnell
<me@somewhere.invalid> wrote:

>Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:
>
>>It is the _Gmail_ account which would have had “recent:”.
>>Not the _BT_ account.
>
>That's not what it says in the Gmail instructions Ralph. Nor was that
>the way I did it successfully for a (brief) period before. (As did
>Jesper I believe.)
No, I have only applied the "recent" to gmail pop. And it works fine.

Best regards
--
Jesper Kaas - jesperk@neindanke.online.no