I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or used
with Seamonkey.

Facebook for instance, I'm using it for a group that has historical
photographs of my home town.

The website of my bank.

The website of my photo software.

And the list goes on and on.

Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL from
Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.

Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?

(I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)

Dirk Munk wrote:
> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or
> used with Seamonkey.
>
> Facebook for instance, I'm using it for a group that has historical
> photographs of my home town.
>
> The website of my bank.
>
> The website of my photo software.
>
> And the list goes on and on.
>
> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL
> from Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
>
> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>
> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)

Look for a seamonkey addon called "Open with". You'll no longer
need to copy and paste urls.

Then, when you run across one of these half assed web pages, you
can simply right click and select any other browser, like edge,
chrome, firefox, etc.

Hank Rogers wrote on 22/5/23 3:05 am:
> Dirk Munk wrote:
>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or used
>> with Seamonkey.
>>
>> Facebook for instance, I'm using it for a group that has historical
>> photographs of my home town.
>>
>> The website of my bank.
>>
>> The website of my photo software.
>>
>> And the list goes on and on.
>>
>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL from
>> Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
>>
>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>>
>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)
>
> Look for a seamonkey addon called "Open with". You'll no longer need to
> copy and paste urls.
>
> Then, when you run across one of these half assed web pages, you can
> simply right click and select any other browser, like edge, chrome,
> firefox, etc.
>
> https://addons.thunderbird.net/thunderbird/downloads/file/1012011/open_with-6.8.6-sm+tb.xpi
>
>

-------- Original Message --------
> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or used
> with Seamonkey.
>
That is exactly what I was going to write! (talking about the browser)

I have to transfer all my u/n and p/w etc. This is so sad.

> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL from
> Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
>
> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>
> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)

--
..

meagain wrote:
> -------- Original Message --------
>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or used with
>> Seamonkey.
>>
> That is exactly what I was going to write!  (talking about the browser)
>
> I have to transfer all my u/n and p/w etc. This is so sad.
>
>
>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL from
>> Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
>>
>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>>
>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)
>
>
Bye

FRG

Barryedwin1 wrote:
> Hank Rogers wrote on 22/5/23 3:05 am:
>> Dirk Munk wrote:
>>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed
>>> or used with Seamonkey.
>>>
>>> Facebook for instance, I'm using it for a group that has
>>> historical photographs of my home town.
>>>
>>> The website of my bank.
>>>
>>> The website of my photo software.
>>>
>>> And the list goes on and on.
>>>
>>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL
>>> from Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I
>>> hope.
>>>
>>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>>>
>>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like
>>> that)
>>
>> Look for a seamonkey addon called "Open with". You'll no longer
>> need to copy and paste urls.
>>
>> Then, when you run across one of these half assed web pages, you
>> can simply right click and select any other browser, like edge,
>> chrome, firefox, etc.
>>
>> https://addons.thunderbird.net/thunderbird/downloads/file/1012011/open_with-6.8.6-sm+tb.xpi

Exactly! Thanks Barry.

-------- Original Message --------
> meagain wrote:
>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or
>>> used with Seamonkey.
>>>
>> That is exactly what I was going to write!  (talking about the browser)
>>
>> I have to transfer all my u/n and p/w etc. This is so sad.
>>
>>
>>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL from
>>> Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
>>>
>>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>>>
>>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)
>>
>>
> Bye
>
> FRG

You're still here?

--
.

Hank Rogers <hank@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Dirk Munk wrote:
> > I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or
> > used with Seamonkey.
> >
> > Facebook for instance, I'm using it for a group that has historical
> > photographs of my home town.
> >
> > The website of my bank.
> >
> > The website of my photo software.
> >
> > And the list goes on and on.
> >
> > Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL
> > from Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
> >
> > Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
> >
> > (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)

> Look for a seamonkey addon called "Open with". You'll no longer
> need to copy and paste urls.

It's good for non-logged in web sites. Annoying for logged in web sites.
I just have to remember to switch web browsers before logging in. ;)

> Then, when you run across one of these half assed web pages, you
> can simply right click and select any other browser, like edge,
> chrome, firefox, etc.

Yup.
--
"In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now." --Philippians 1:4-5. Quiet warm weekend with 8.8h of Z & biological bugs! Lakers suck like Celtics. :P
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Ant wrote:
> Hank Rogers <hank@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> Dirk Munk wrote:
>>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or
>>> used with Seamonkey.
>>>
>>> Facebook for instance, I'm using it for a group that has historical
>>> photographs of my home town.
>>>
>>> The website of my bank.
>>>
>>> The website of my photo software.
>>>
>>> And the list goes on and on.
>>>
>>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL
>>> from Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
>>>
>>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>>>
>>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)
>
>> Look for a seamonkey addon called "Open with". You'll no longer
>> need to copy and paste urls.
>
> It's good for non-logged in web sites. Annoying for logged in web sites.
> I just have to remember to switch web browsers before logging in. ;)
>
>
>> Then, when you run across one of these half assed web pages, you
>> can simply right click and select any other browser, like edge,
>> chrome, firefox, etc.
>
> Yup.
>

It would be nice if the add-on could automatically open a
particular browser on a per site basis, but I'm afraid it's too
much to ask for. Probably would be too complicated or require too
deep integration into seamonkey.

Hank Rogers <hank@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Ant wrote:
> > Hank Rogers <hank@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >> Dirk Munk wrote:
> >>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or
> >>> used with Seamonkey.
> >>>
> >>> Facebook for instance, I'm using it for a group that has historical
> >>> photographs of my home town.
> >>>
> >>> The website of my bank.
> >>>
> >>> The website of my photo software.
> >>>
> >>> And the list goes on and on.
> >>>
> >>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL
> >>> from Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
> >>>
> >>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
> >>>
> >>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)
> >
> >> Look for a seamonkey addon called "Open with". You'll no longer
> >> need to copy and paste urls.
> >
> > It's good for non-logged in web sites. Annoying for logged in web sites.
> > I just have to remember to switch web browsers before logging in. ;)
> >
> >
> >> Then, when you run across one of these half assed web pages, you
> >> can simply right click and select any other browser, like edge,
> >> chrome, firefox, etc.
> >
> > Yup.
> >

> It would be nice if the add-on could automatically open a
> particular browser on a per site basis, but I'm afraid it's too
> much to ask for. Probably would be too complicated or require too
> deep integration into seamonkey.

And security issues too between web browsers.
--
"In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now." --Philippians 1:4-5. Quiet warm weekend with 8.8h of Z & biological bugs! Lakers suck like Celtics. :P
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

meagain wrote on 22/5/23 5:39 am:
> -------- Original Message --------
>> meagain wrote:
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or
>>>> used with Seamonkey.
>>>>
>>> That is exactly what I was going to write!  (talking about the browser)
>>>
>>> I have to transfer all my u/n and p/w etc. This is so sad.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL
>>>> from Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
>>>>
>>>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>>>>
>>>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)
>>>
>>>
>> Bye
>>
>> FRG
>
> You're still here?
>
Frank IS 'prime-driver' of SeaMonkey, therefore No Frank = No SeaMonkey.
SeaMonkey is much-more than just a browser!
There are plenty of other email clients and browsers to use.

Without Frank's decades-long wealth of contributions, we would all be on
restrictive Chrome-based stuff.
Remind me ~ what did Rick_Merrill contribute to SeaMonkey? Barry

Barryedwin1 <barryedwingilmour@gmail.com> wrote:
> meagain wrote on 22/5/23 5:39 am:
> > -------- Original Message --------
> >> meagain wrote:
> >>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or
> >>>> used with Seamonkey.
> >>>>
> >>> That is exactly what I was going to write!  (talking about the browser)
> >>>
> >>> I have to transfer all my u/n and p/w etc. This is so sad.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL
> >>>> from Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
> >>>>
> >>>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Bye
> >>
> >> FRG
> >
> > You're still here?
> >
> Frank IS 'prime-driver' of SeaMonkey, therefore No Frank = No SeaMonkey.
> SeaMonkey is much-more than just a browser!
> There are plenty of other email clients and browsers to use.

> Without Frank's decades-long wealth of contributions, we would all be on
> restrictive Chrome-based stuff.
> Remind me ~ what did Rick_Merrill contribute to SeaMonkey? Barry

Ditto. FRG rules!
--
"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." --Acts 1:8. Quiet warm weekend with a lot of Z, biological bugs, watching, & eyePhone gaming. Lakers & Celtics suck again. :P
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Ant wrote:
> Barryedwin1 <barryedwingilmour@gmail.com> wrote:
>> meagain wrote on 22/5/23 5:39 am:
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> meagain wrote:
>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or
>>>>>> used with Seamonkey.
>>>>>>
>>>>> That is exactly what I was going to write!  (talking about the browser)
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to transfer all my u/n and p/w etc. This is so sad.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL
>>>>>> from Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Bye
>>>>
>>>> FRG
>>>
>>> You're still here?
>>>
>> Frank IS 'prime-driver' of SeaMonkey, therefore No Frank = No SeaMonkey.
>> SeaMonkey is much-more than just a browser!
>> There are plenty of other email clients and browsers to use.
>
>> Without Frank's decades-long wealth of contributions, we would all be on
>> restrictive Chrome-based stuff.
>> Remind me ~ what did Rick_Merrill contribute to SeaMonkey? Barry
>
> Ditto. FRG rules!
>

Well decades-long is 2015 till today and I am not the only one working on it
:) In any case you will need a second browser for bad sites for the
foreseeable future. This will not go away any time soon unless we get more
contributors and less whining about the bad world out there. Don't like it either.

FRG

Hank Rogers wrote:
> Ant wrote:
>> Hank Rogers <hank@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> Dirk Munk wrote:
>>>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or
>>>> used with Seamonkey.
>>>>
>>>> Facebook for instance, I'm using it for a group that has historical
>>>> photographs of my home town.
>>>>
>>>> The website of my bank.
>>>>
>>>> The website of my photo software.
>>>>
>>>> And the list goes on and on.
>>>>
>>>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL
>>>> from Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
>>>>
>>>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>>>>
>>>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)
>>
>>> Look for a seamonkey addon called "Open with". You'll no longer
>>> need to copy and paste urls.
>>
>> It's good for non-logged in web sites. Annoying for logged in web sites.
>> I just have to remember to switch web browsers before logging in. ;)
>>
>>
>>> Then, when you run across one of these half assed web pages, you
>>> can simply right click and select any other browser, like edge,
>>> chrome, firefox, etc.
>>
>> Yup.
>>
>
> It would be nice if the add-on could automatically open a particular
> browser on a per site basis, but I'm afraid it's too much to ask for.
> Probably would be too complicated or require too deep integration into
> seamonkey.
>

That sounds like something you would need to do from a shortcut from
your desktop where you can enter both the browser and the URL.

Dave

meagain wrote:
> -------- Original Message --------
>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or used
>> with Seamonkey.
>>
> That is exactly what I was going to write!  (talking about the browser)
>
> I have to transfer all my u/n and p/w etc. This is so sad.

Besides the suggestion of Open With, this is a place where KeePass is
useful. That one also has a functional equivalent of Open With, where
you can choose which browser you open a site with.

I agree that KeePass isn't quite as convenient as using Seamonkey's
password manager. In my case, I use something of a hybridized approach,
where I consider my KeePass store to be primary and authoritative.
However in both Seamonkey and Firefox, for sites that I visit
frequently, I do use the browser's password manager. And rather than
manually creating the entry in the browser, I simply answer "yes" to the
prompt of whether the browser should save that set of login credentials.

>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL from
>> Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
>>
>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>>
>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)

If you haven't done so recently, doing a browser cleanup with something
like BleachBit or CCleaner may be useful. Besides simply cleaning out
the cache and (optionally) discarding accumulated cookies and history,
getting vacuum jobs on all the SQLite databases can help. I did that
recently - it had been several months since I did that previously, and I
was having not only slowness in response but also pages not rendering
correctly, even with User Agent spoofing active and NoScript inactive.
Following the cleanup, the browser is much more responsive.

Unfortunately, cleanups won't do anything about pages that are designed
for Chrome (or more recent versions of Firefox), especially the sites
that are heavy on scripting. Seamonkey can't execute scripting that it
doesn't recognize. And the coding work to add that kind of support is
non-trivial, and unlikely to happen any time soon with the resources
available to do that.

Thus, you're left with using Seamonkey as much as it's capable of doing,
and switching to other browsers for sites that it can't support, or
abandoning Seamonkey entirely if you really want to do everything in a
single browser.

Personally, I prefer the former -- I like the things that Seamonkey
does, and I've found that for my workflows, having several browser
windows open is useful, even if not all of those windows happen to be
Seamonkey. And working around cookies and logins, there are times when
I find it useful to have multiple browsers open simultaneously.

One other tip -- besides the Open With extension, I've found that if I
happen to have Seamonkey and other browsers open at the same time, it's
pretty easy to drag-and-drop a tab from Seamonkey into another browser
(and not just Firefox)

Smith

-------- Original Message --------
> Ant wrote:
>> Barryedwin1 <barryedwingilmour@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> meagain wrote on 22/5/23 5:39 am:
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>> meagain wrote:
>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or
>>>>>>> used with Seamonkey.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is exactly what I was going to write!  (talking about the
>>>>>> browser)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to transfer all my u/n and p/w etc. This is so sad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL
>>>>>>> from Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I
>>>>>>> hope.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like
>>>>>>> that)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Bye
>>>>>
>>>>> FRG
>>>>
>>>> You're still here?
>>>>
>>> Frank IS 'prime-driver' of SeaMonkey, therefore No Frank = No SeaMonkey.
>>> SeaMonkey is much-more than just a browser!
>>> There are plenty of other email clients and browsers to use.
>>
>>> Without Frank's decades-long wealth of contributions, we would all be on
>>> restrictive Chrome-based stuff.
>>> Remind me ~ what did Rick_Merrill contribute to SeaMonkey? Barry
>>
>> Ditto. FRG rules!
>>
>
> Well decades-long is 2015 till today and I am not the only one working
> on it :) In any case you will need a second browser for bad sites for
> the foreseeable future. This will not go away any time soon unless we
> get more contributors and less whining about the bad world out there.
> Don't like it either.
>
> FRG

Hey FRG, thanks for all you have done for SeaMonkey. I am sorry my
prodding came over as whining, but I've been a supporter since Netscape.

--
.

On 5/22/23 01:35, Barryedwin1 wrote:
> meagain wrote on 22/5/23 5:39 am:
>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> meagain wrote:
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or
>>>>> used with Seamonkey.
>>>>>
>>>> That is exactly what I was going to write!  (talking about the browser)
>>>>
>>>> I have to transfer all my u/n and p/w etc. This is so sad.
>>>>
>>>>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL
>>>>> from Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I hope.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>>>>>
>>>>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like that)
>>>>
>>> Bye
>>>
>>> FRG
>>
>> You're still here?
>>
> Frank IS 'prime-driver' of SeaMonkey, therefore No Frank = No SeaMonkey.
> SeaMonkey is much-more than just a browser!
> There are plenty of other email clients and browsers to use.
>
> Without Frank's decades-long wealth of contributions, we would all be on
> restrictive Chrome-based stuff.
> Remind me ~ what did Rick_Merrill contribute to SeaMonkey? Barry

I've been using The Composer since forever as well, it IS my only
word processor (because it does everything I need to get done). Should
the unthinkable happen I just hope someone will fork that part off and
keep it afloat!

bad sector wrote:
> On 5/22/23 01:35, Barryedwin1 wrote:
>> meagain wrote on 22/5/23 5:39 am:
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> meagain wrote:
>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>> I'm very sad, because more and more websites can not be viewed or
>>>>>> used with Seamonkey.
>>>>>>
>>>>> That is exactly what I was going to write!  (talking about the
>>>>> browser)
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to transfer all my u/n and p/w etc. This is so sad.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Something must be done, using Seamonkey to copy and paste an URL
>>>>>> from Seamonkey to Chrome is not really the future of Seamonkey I
>>>>>> hope.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there any hope for a much improved version of Seamonkey ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I've been using this browser since Netscape 2 or something like
>>>>>> that)
>>>>>
>>>> Bye
>>>>
>>>> FRG
>>>
>>> You're still here?
>>>
>> Frank IS 'prime-driver' of SeaMonkey, therefore No Frank = No SeaMonkey.
>> SeaMonkey is much-more than just a browser!
>> There are plenty of other email clients and browsers to use.
>>
>> Without Frank's decades-long wealth of contributions, we would all be
>> on restrictive Chrome-based stuff.
>> Remind me ~ what did Rick_Merrill contribute to SeaMonkey? Barry
>
> I've been using The Composer since forever as well, it IS my only
> word processor (because it does everything I need to get done). Should
> the unthinkable happen I just hope someone will fork that part off and
> keep it afloat!
>
>
>
>
>
>

Mozilla has come up with a few standalone html editors over the years
but I believe were abandoned a long time ago, their FAQ page:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Common_questions/Tools_and_setup/Available_text_editors
does not mention any of them.

NVU - http://www.nvu.com/ - was the first one I experimented with, it
was abandoned shortly afterwards and I don't think a Linux version still
exists. That link contains another list of alternatives.
I don't think I ever used http://www.nvu.com/bluegriffon.html
I know I had never heard of
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/artifacts/webmaker-thimble/ before
today but that site says their users migrated to https://glitch.com/ in
2019. Since the Glitch website does not render under Seamonkey, don't
want, don't need.
There's even a Firefox addon,
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/web-editor/

As for me, I started using Composer back in the days of Netscape 4.x and
have no intention of abandoning it. If Seamonkey stopped development
altogether I'd have to decide whether to leave the last version up for
Composer and Mail (probably) or start looking at a Composer replacement
while hoping that migration to Thunderbird would still be an option.

My problem with joining FRG in supporting Seamonkey is that my technical
background is inappropriate for the job.

Don Spam's Reckless Son wrote:
> Mozilla has come up with a few standalone html editors over the years
> but I believe were abandoned a long time ago, their FAQ page:
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Common_questions/Tools_and_setup/Available_text_editors
> does not mention any of them.
>
> NVU - http://www.nvu.com/ - was the first one I experimented with, it
> was abandoned shortly afterwards and I don't think a Linux version still
> exists.  That link contains another list of alternatives.
> I don't think I ever used http://www.nvu.com/bluegriffon.html
> I know I had never heard of
> https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/artifacts/webmaker-thimble/ before
> today but that site says their users migrated to https://glitch.com/ in
> 2019.  Since the Glitch website does not render under Seamonkey, don't
> want, don't need.
> There's even a Firefox addon,
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/web-editor/

After NVU there was also Kompozer https://kompozer.sourceforge.net/ but
I think that's been abandoned, too. The primary source of downloads
is/was at kompozer.net, where the domain is dead. Poking at
sourceforge, it's still possible to get downloads there, but the last
updates were in 2010.

There are a handful of things that I edit with Kompozer -- not so much
pages that I would put on a web site, but I have several stand-alone
HTML docs that I use for documentation purposes. These are various
things where I like doing access through a browser (including menu
files) where it's useful to have easy interaction with Links. Although
I could do more with text formatting using Libre Writer or Word, I don't
like that Writer converts anything that it opens to .ODF (requiring a
re-conversion to text HTML when I'm finished editing), or that Word
produces fat/sloppy HTML (including a folder of support files). For
what I'm doing Kompozer's ability to edit directly and without any
content conversion is preferable.

Although I generally do that work with Kompozer, there are occasions
where, if I'm viewing one of those files in Seamonkey, it's nice to be
able to do a quick edit by launching the Seamonkey Composer with Ctrl-E.

Smith

NFN Smith wrote:
> Don Spam's Reckless Son wrote:
>> Mozilla has come up with a few standalone html editors over the years
>> but I believe were abandoned a long time ago, their FAQ page:
>> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Common_questions/Tools_and_setup/Available_text_editors
>> does not mention any of them.
>>
>> NVU - http://www.nvu.com/ - was the first one I experimented with, it
>> was abandoned shortly afterwards and I don't think a Linux version
>> still exists.  That link contains another list of alternatives.
>> I don't think I ever used http://www.nvu.com/bluegriffon.html
>> I know I had never heard of
>> https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/artifacts/webmaker-thimble/ before
>> today but that site says their users migrated to https://glitch.com/
>> in 2019.  Since the Glitch website does not render under Seamonkey,
>> don't want, don't need.
>> There's even a Firefox addon,
>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/web-editor/
>
> After NVU there was also Kompozer https://kompozer.sourceforge.net/ but
> I think that's been abandoned, too.  The primary source of downloads
> is/was at kompozer.net, where the domain is dead.  Poking at
> sourceforge, it's still possible to get downloads there, but the last
> updates were in 2010.
>
> There are a handful of things that I edit with Kompozer -- not so much
> pages that I would put on a web site, but I have several stand-alone
> HTML docs that I use for documentation purposes.  These are various
> things where I like doing access through a browser (including menu
> files) where it's useful to have easy interaction with Links.  Although
> I could do more with text formatting using Libre Writer or Word, I don't
> like that Writer converts anything that it opens to .ODF (requiring a
> re-conversion to text HTML when I'm finished editing), or that Word
> produces fat/sloppy HTML (including a folder of support files).  For
> what I'm doing Kompozer's ability to edit directly and without any
> content conversion is preferable.
>
> Although I generally do that work with Kompozer, there are occasions
> where, if I'm viewing one of those files in Seamonkey, it's nice to be
> able to do a quick edit by launching the Seamonkey Composer with Ctrl-E.
>
> Smith

The NVU link I provided talks about Kompozer, and following the link
from there - https://sourceforge.net/projects/kompozer/ - claims that
its last update was almost exactly 7 years ago, the end of May 2016.

It also says: "KompoZer is a wysiwyg HTML editor using the Mozilla
Composer codebase. As Nvu's development has been stopped in 2005,
KompoZer fixes many bugs and adds a few useful features."

meagain <rick0.merrill@gmail.com> wrote:
....
> Hey FRG, thanks for all you have done for SeaMonkey. I am sorry my
> prodding came over as whining, but I've been a supporter since Netscape.

Ditto.
--
"Boldly and without hindrance he preached the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ." --Acts 28:31. Slammy weeky? Thanks God 4 no No. CA trip. Dang Lakers, colony, issues, humans, & Max.
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/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
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( )

frg <frgrahl@gmx.net> writes:

> Well decades-long is 2015 till today and I am not the only one
> working on it :) In any case you will need a second browser for bad
> sites for the foreseeable future. This will not go away any time
> soon unless we get more contributors and less whining about the bad
> world out there. Don't like it either.

Just where does thwe problem lie withing Seamonkey? Failure to parse
and execute some locutions of javascript? Failure to correctly
interpret STYLE blocks?

I encounter many sites that are awkwardly rendered or even to too much
of a hash to be readable. Choosing "None" from the style menu usually
fixes that, albeit at the cost of having SVG crap rendered as
full-screen.

I occasionally hit a failure of js but as I almost always disable js,
that isn't a common problem.

There are only a couple of sites I log in to and, with images, style
and scripts enabled, they work as expected. I don't do Facebook or
anything similar where, I assume, there is a vast block of js,
directly from FB and from other sites, that has to work perfectly for
the UX to have all the intended features.

In any case, I really like Seamonkey, using 2.53.10.2.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

Mike Spencer wrote:
> frg <frgrahl@gmx.net> writes:
>
>> Well decades-long is 2015 till today and I am not the only one
>> working on it :) In any case you will need a second browser for bad
>> sites for the foreseeable future. This will not go away any time
>> soon unless we get more contributors and less whining about the bad
>> world out there. Don't like it either.
>
> Just where does thwe problem lie withing Seamonkey? Failure to parse
> and execute some locutions of javascript? Failure to correctly
> interpret STYLE blocks?
>
> I encounter many sites that are awkwardly rendered or even to too much
> of a hash to be readable. Choosing "None" from the style menu usually
> fixes that, albeit at the cost of having SVG crap rendered as
> full-screen.
>
> I occasionally hit a failure of js but as I almost always disable js,
> that isn't a common problem.
>
> There are only a couple of sites I log in to and, with images, style
> and scripts enabled, they work as expected. I don't do Facebook or
> anything similar where, I assume, there is a vast block of js,
> directly from FB and from other sites, that has to work perfectly for
> the UX to have all the intended features.
>
> In any case, I really like Seamonkey, using 2.53.10.2.
>

This has been discussed here before, and I don't know JS so this is
going to be generic. There are two problems, one relatively minor and
one anything but:
1 - Browser sniffing. Sites deciding to support particular versions of
particular browsers, and nothing else.
2 - Google love adding new features to Javascript. Other browsers such
as Firefox have to follow suit because websites - in particular ones
with dynamically generated pages like using these wonderful (or not) new
commands. Firefox has the resources to handle the new syntax, Seamonkey
does not and is much slower implementing the commands.
Firefox rewrote their rendering engine a year or two ago and cut
Thunderbird adrift as part of the process. Seamonkey = Firefox +
Thunderbird (+ Composer + other-bits) so FF and TB using different
rendering engines is a problem. Firefox has also made some other
changes but those are not as relevant to this discussion.

Don Spam's Reckless Son wrote:
> Mike Spencer wrote:
>> frg <frgrahl@gmx.net> writes:
>>
>>> Well decades-long is 2015 till today and I am not the only one
>>> working on it :) In any case you will need a second browser for bad
>>> sites for the foreseeable future. This will not go away any time
>>> soon unless we get more contributors and less whining about the bad
>>> world out there. Don't like it either.
>>
>> Just where does thwe problem lie withing Seamonkey?  Failure to parse
>> and execute some locutions of javascript?   Failure to correctly
>> interpret STYLE blocks?
>>
>> I encounter many sites that are awkwardly rendered or even to too much
>> of a hash to be readable.  Choosing "None" from the style menu usually
>> fixes that, albeit at the cost of having SVG crap rendered as
>> full-screen.
>>
>> I occasionally hit a failure of js but as I almost always disable js,
>> that isn't a common problem.
>>
>> There are only a couple of sites I log in to and, with images, style
>> and scripts enabled, they work as expected.  I don't do Facebook or
>> anything similar where, I assume, there is a vast block of js,
>> directly from FB and from other sites, that has to work perfectly for
>> the UX to have all the intended features.
>>
>> In any case, I really like Seamonkey, using 2.53.10.2.
>>
>
> This has been discussed here before, and I don't know JS so this is
> going to be generic.  There are two problems, one relatively minor and
> one anything but:
> 1 - Browser sniffing.  Sites deciding to support particular versions of
> particular browsers, and nothing else.
> 2 - Google love adding new features to Javascript.  Other browsers such
> as Firefox have to follow suit because websites - in particular ones
> with dynamically generated pages like using these wonderful (or not) new
> commands.  Firefox has the resources to handle the new syntax, Seamonkey
> does not and is much slower implementing the commands.
> Firefox rewrote their rendering engine a year or two ago and cut
> Thunderbird adrift as part of the process.  Seamonkey = Firefox +
> Thunderbird (+ Composer + other-bits) so FF and TB using different
> rendering engines is a problem.  Firefox has also made some other
> changes but those are not as relevant to this discussion.

So, apart from the browser sniffing, the problem lies with Javascript.

I've tried to understand what the problem is, and it seems that the most
recent version of the Javascript language is EcmaScript 2022, if I
understand that correctly.

Am I to understand that the Javascript engine in Seamonkey does not
confirm to this standard?

Dirk Munk wrote:
> Don Spam's Reckless Son wrote:
>> Mike Spencer wrote:
>>> frg <frgrahl@gmx.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> Well decades-long is 2015 till today and I am not the only one
>>>> working on it :) In any case you will need a second browser for bad
>>>> sites for the foreseeable future. This will not go away any time
>>>> soon unless we get more contributors and less whining about the bad
>>>> world out there. Don't like it either.
>>>
>>> Just where does thwe problem lie withing Seamonkey?  Failure to parse
>>> and execute some locutions of javascript?   Failure to correctly
>>> interpret STYLE blocks?
>>>
>>> I encounter many sites that are awkwardly rendered or even to too much
>>> of a hash to be readable.  Choosing "None" from the style menu usually
>>> fixes that, albeit at the cost of having SVG crap rendered as
>>> full-screen.
>>>
>>> I occasionally hit a failure of js but as I almost always disable js,
>>> that isn't a common problem.
>>>
>>> There are only a couple of sites I log in to and, with images, style
>>> and scripts enabled, they work as expected.  I don't do Facebook or
>>> anything similar where, I assume, there is a vast block of js,
>>> directly from FB and from other sites, that has to work perfectly for
>>> the UX to have all the intended features.
>>>
>>> In any case, I really like Seamonkey, using 2.53.10.2.
>>>
>>
>> This has been discussed here before, and I don't know JS so this is
>> going to be generic.  There are two problems, one relatively minor and
>> one anything but:
>> 1 - Browser sniffing.  Sites deciding to support particular versions
>> of particular browsers, and nothing else.
>> 2 - Google love adding new features to Javascript.  Other browsers
>> such as Firefox have to follow suit because websites - in particular
>> ones with dynamically generated pages like using these wonderful (or
>> not) new commands.  Firefox has the resources to handle the new
>> syntax, Seamonkey does not and is much slower implementing the commands.
>> Firefox rewrote their rendering engine a year or two ago and cut
>> Thunderbird adrift as part of the process.  Seamonkey = Firefox +
>> Thunderbird (+ Composer + other-bits) so FF and TB using different
>> rendering engines is a problem.  Firefox has also made some other
>> changes but those are not as relevant to this discussion.
>
> So, apart from the browser sniffing, the problem lies with Javascript.
>
> I've tried to understand what the problem is, and it seems that the most
> recent version of the Javascript language is EcmaScript 2022, if I
> understand that correctly.
>
> Am I to understand that the Javascript engine in Seamonkey does not
> confirm to this standard?

FRG is one person and can only do so much. Google is adding syntax to
JS faster than one person can implement it.