Hello
I've done a bit of reading on a 8514 Graphics card I have, and understand that it displays only a very specific resolution /refresh rate s 1024 x 768 / 256 colors @ 43 hurtzzz, and is useful for fast drawing of vectorized graphics... ok cool.

From reading the card is suppose to use the Auxiliary Video Extension to sort of pass through VGA from the onboard out the graphics card.

What I want to understand better is this bit of text:

"8514/A Display Modes
The IBM 8514/A only supported two resolutions: 640×480 and 1024×768. The basic 8514/A with 512KB VRAM only supported 16 colors; the 512KB memory expansion brought the total to 1MB VRAM and supported 256 colors as well.

The very limited set of resolutions was purely a function of the 8514/A display controller—the accelerator was much more flexible, and in fact 8514/A clones often supported 800×600 and 1280×1024 resolutions as well. The limitation was a consequence of only two oscillators on the board (and no programmable PLL), providing 25.175MHz and 44.9MHz pixel clocks for the 640×480 and 1024×768 resolutions, respectively.
"
So 640x480 is supported, anyone?

from
https://www.os2museum.com/wp/the-8514a-graphics-accelerator/

Indeed the graphics card does have 2 oscillators on it.

Q1. Is it possible to use this card at 640x480, or would that be coming from the onboard?

Q2. When I've installed this card into my system, I installed the ADF and can see the card and its resources listed, however there is no display output at all, it is plugged into the MCA slot with Auxiliary Video Extension... So does that mean this card does not pass thru the AVE? Or it does and mine is simply broken? Maybe I missing the big picture here...

Q3. Could changing the oscillators lead to the use of different resolutions? ( probably have to fiddle with driver, adf as well , who knows what else).

This info is somewhat contradicted by the 8514 specific page on ardent tool, which lists only 1 resolution supported for it.

Anyhow it probably isn't the best card to use, but it looks cool, and I'd like to if I can tolerate the 43 hertz, or run it at 640x480 instead, if that is even possible.

Thanks,
Jonathan

You pose some old [but good] questions. AVE and 8514 are not my cuppa Joe...

https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/8514.html

The 8514 page on the Tool DOES sorta mention the two resolutions, but
only points to the 1024x768 as the only one actually produced by the
8514/A, the 640x480 carried over from the AVE... BUT that is a good
question, why is the 25.175MHz oscillator installed?

The AVE and BVE thing is not altogether useful for anything higher than
640x480.

https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Extension.html

Just as an exercise in mental gymnastics, can you install the 8514/A in
a NON-AVE 16-bit slot? When you stick it into a 16-bit AVE slot, my SWAG
is that turns off the 640x480 from the 8514/A. I really don't know if
anyone has tried it and reported the results.

Finally, the third party manufacturers documented the 8514/A registers.
You sorta have to do that if you wandt to clone the 8514/A...

The truth is out there...

Jonathan Carron wrote:
> Hello
> I've done a bit of reading on a 8514 Graphics card I have, and understand that it displays only a very specific resolution /refresh rate s 1024 x 768 / 256 colors @ 43 hurtzzz, and is useful for fast drawing of vectorized graphics... ok cool.
>
> From reading the card is suppose to use the Auxiliary Video Extension to sort of pass through VGA from the onboard out the graphics card.
>
> What I want to understand better is this bit of text:
>
> "8514/A Display Modes
> The IBM 8514/A only supported two resolutions: 640×480 and 1024×768. The basic 8514/A with 512KB VRAM only supported 16 colors; the 512KB memory expansion brought the total to 1MB VRAM and supported 256 colors as well.
>
> The very limited set of resolutions was purely a function of the 8514/A display controller—the accelerator was much more flexible, and in fact 8514/A clones often supported 800×600 and 1280×1024 resolutions as well. The limitation was a consequence of only two oscillators on the board (and no programmable PLL), providing 25.175MHz and 44.9MHz pixel clocks for the 640×480 and 1024×768 resolutions, respectively.
> "
> So 640x480 is supported, anyone?
>
> from
> https://www.os2museum.com/wp/the-8514a-graphics-accelerator/
>
>
> Indeed the graphics card does have 2 oscillators on it.
>
> Q1. Is it possible to use this card at 640x480, or would that be coming from the onboard?
>
> Q2. When I've installed this card into my system, I installed the ADF and can see the card and its resources listed, however there is no display output at all, it is plugged into the MCA slot with Auxiliary Video Extension... So does that mean this card does not pass thru the AVE? Or it does and mine is simply broken? Maybe I missing the big picture here...
>
> Q3. Could changing the oscillators lead to the use of different resolutions? ( probably have to fiddle with driver, adf as well , who knows what else).
>
> This info is somewhat contradicted by the 8514 specific page on ardent tool, which lists only 1 resolution supported for it.
>
> Anyhow it probably isn't the best card to use, but it looks cool, and I'd like to if I can tolerate the 43 hertz, or run it at 640x480 instead, if that is even possible.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
>

To be sehr klar... I need you to take an 8514/A, install it into a
Non-AVE 16-bit slot [or a 32-bit if you can waste one], and bring up the
system. My SWAG is this was never done because everyone knows it goes in
the AVE 16-bit slot because the Holy Ordos IBM ordained it so.

Put the video cable on the system board VGA at the first boot, if the
8514/A is happy under set and view configuration, -MAYBE- it supports
VGA. At what color depth, I dunno, as the 8514/A uses the INMOS
IMSG171S-50 RAMDAC. Perhaps the mythical Mode 13 might help beat out
more possumbilities, but you have a 18-bit DAC [6-6-6].

My further SWAG is the 8514/A could do VGA if in a non-AVE slot, and VGA
drivers will do. Maybe.

You might need a video terminator, but since both VGA sources aren't on
the Video Extension, there isn't excess video signal on the AVE.

https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Terminator_Pinout.html

I'm not sure about the I/O address of the 8514/A.

We run the BVE XGA-2 with the BVE portion sticking outside the slot in a
Model 90 [which has planar XGA]. Having the AVE or BVE contacts hanging
in free air does not hurt the card or system.

Louis Ohland wrote:
> The AVE and BVE thing is not altogether useful for anything higher than
> 640x480.
>
> https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Extension.html
>
> Just as an exercise in mental gymnastics, can you install the 8514/A in
> a NON-AVE 16-bit slot? When you stick it into a 16-bit AVE slot, my SWAG
> is that turns off the 640x480 from the 8514/A. I really don't know if
> anyone has tried it and reported the results.

Thinking without alcohol HURTS...

Finishing up the dishes, and I thought I had the answer, VGA for an
Autocad layers list! I was just about ready to disjoint my arms by
patting myself on the back, then a conundrum hit...

The 8514/A is aimed at the 1024x768 for CAD. Why not just use the system
board VGA for the layers list, and the 8514/A for the CAD drawing...

Further, let's suppose you run the 8514/A in a non-AVE slot so you can
use the base video [possumbility] on the 8514/A, but how do you switch
between CAD and VGA on the same HDD15 port?

Methinks determining the 8514/A registers is more significant than it
appeared... But imagine switching from 1024x768 to 640x480 to look at
the layers list, then switching back...

Louis Ohland wrote:
> To be sehr klar... I need you to take an 8514/A, install it into a
> Non-AVE 16-bit slot [or a 32-bit if you can waste one], and bring up the
> system. My SWAG is this was never done because everyone knows it goes in
> the AVE 16-bit slot because the Holy Ordos IBM ordained it so.
>
> Put the video cable on the system board VGA at the first boot, if the
> 8514/A is happy under set and view configuration, -MAYBE- it supports
> VGA. At what color depth, I dunno, as the 8514/A uses the INMOS
> IMSG171S-50 RAMDAC. Perhaps the mythical Mode 13 might help beat out
> more possumbilities, but you have a 18-bit DAC [6-6-6].
>
> My further SWAG is the 8514/A could do VGA if in a non-AVE slot, and VGA
> drivers will do. Maybe.
>
> You might need a video terminator, but since both VGA sources aren't on
> the Video Extension, there isn't excess video signal on the AVE.
>
> https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Terminator_Pinout.html
>
> I'm not sure about the I/O address of the 8514/A.
>
> We run the BVE XGA-2 with the BVE portion sticking outside the slot in a
> Model 90 [which has planar XGA]. Having the AVE or BVE contacts hanging
> in free air does not hurt the card or system.
>
> Louis Ohland wrote:
>> The AVE and BVE thing is not altogether useful for anything higher
>> than 640x480.
>>
>> https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Extension.html
>>
>> Just as an exercise in mental gymnastics, can you install the 8514/A
>> in a NON-AVE 16-bit slot? When you stick it into a 16-bit AVE slot, my
>> SWAG is that turns off the 640x480 from the 8514/A. I really don't
>> know if anyone has tried it and reported the results.

Thanks Louis - I only actually tried it in the AVE slot... I did not
get any video output at all. I don't know why I didn't think to try it
in other slots, even the 20 year old version of me would have at least
tried that... sigh.

I know the card was picked up, while using the onboard GFX, I observed
the usual system config changed message, and after loading the ADF in
set/view cfg I can indeed see the card listed and the slot its in.

I will try putting the card in a non-ave 16bit slot and while im at it
even a 32 bit one and report back when I get the machine backup on the
bench!

I will also connect a real monitor to it, I used a KVM for my testing
which in retrospect might have affected the outcome as well (probably
not, but maybe).

Thanks for the bit on the terminators, I hadn't stumbled across that
or even thought about that.

Have a few things to try here for sure before giving up, just figured
I'd ask around and see if anyone else had played around with this
before me.

Cheers,
Jonathan

On Wednesday 10 January 2024 at 21:46:05 UTC-5, Louis Ohland wrote:
> To be sehr klar... I need you to take an 8514/A, install it into a
> Non-AVE 16-bit slot [or a 32-bit if you can waste one], and bring up the
> system. My SWAG is this was never done because everyone knows it goes in
> the AVE 16-bit slot because the Holy Ordos IBM ordained it so.
>
> Put the video cable on the system board VGA at the first boot, if the
> 8514/A is happy under set and view configuration, -MAYBE- it supports
> VGA. At what color depth, I dunno, as the 8514/A uses the INMOS
> IMSG171S-50 RAMDAC. Perhaps the mythical Mode 13 might help beat out
> more possumbilities, but you have a 18-bit DAC [6-6-6].
>
> My further SWAG is the 8514/A could do VGA if in a non-AVE slot, and VGA
> drivers will do. Maybe.
>
> You might need a video terminator, but since both VGA sources aren't on
> the Video Extension, there isn't excess video signal on the AVE.
>
> https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Terminator_Pinout.html
>
> I'm not sure about the I/O address of the 8514/A.
>
> We run the BVE XGA-2 with the BVE portion sticking outside the slot in a
> Model 90 [which has planar XGA]. Having the AVE or BVE contacts hanging
> in free air does not hurt the card or system.
> Louis Ohland wrote:
> > The AVE and BVE thing is not altogether useful for anything higher than
> > 640x480.
> >
> > https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Extension.html
> >
> > Just as an exercise in mental gymnastics, can you install the 8514/A in
> > a NON-AVE 16-bit slot? When you stick it into a 16-bit AVE slot, my SWAG
> > is that turns off the 640x480 from the 8514/A. I really don't know if
> > anyone has tried it and reported the results.

Yeah, I suspect that you could sort of create a dual ahead sort of setup using one of these back in the day.
Keeping the layers on a 2nd screen would leave more room on the cad display, but I was hoping to only connect one monitor here.
You do raise a good question about how to switch back and forth on the HD15 port, who knows, maybe there is no switching in the traditional sense?

Getting into the registers is probably beyond me right now, well see how things go without going down that deep deep timevampire hole.

Jonathan

On Wednesday 10 January 2024 at 22:10:46 UTC-5, Louis Ohland wrote:
> Thinking without alcohol HURTS...
>
> Finishing up the dishes, and I thought I had the answer, VGA for an
> Autocad layers list! I was just about ready to disjoint my arms by
> patting myself on the back, then a conundrum hit...
>
> The 8514/A is aimed at the 1024x768 for CAD. Why not just use the system
> board VGA for the layers list, and the 8514/A for the CAD drawing...
>
> Further, let's suppose you run the 8514/A in a non-AVE slot so you can
> use the base video [possumbility] on the 8514/A, but how do you switch
> between CAD and VGA on the same HDD15 port?
>
> Methinks determining the 8514/A registers is more significant than it
> appeared... But imagine switching from 1024x768 to 640x480 to look at
> the layers list, then switching back...
> Louis Ohland wrote:
> > To be sehr klar... I need you to take an 8514/A, install it into a
> > Non-AVE 16-bit slot [or a 32-bit if you can waste one], and bring up the
> > system. My SWAG is this was never done because everyone knows it goes in
> > the AVE 16-bit slot because the Holy Ordos IBM ordained it so.
> >
> > Put the video cable on the system board VGA at the first boot, if the
> > 8514/A is happy under set and view configuration, -MAYBE- it supports
> > VGA. At what color depth, I dunno, as the 8514/A uses the INMOS
> > IMSG171S-50 RAMDAC. Perhaps the mythical Mode 13 might help beat out
> > more possumbilities, but you have a 18-bit DAC [6-6-6].
> >
> > My further SWAG is the 8514/A could do VGA if in a non-AVE slot, and VGA
> > drivers will do. Maybe.
> >
> > You might need a video terminator, but since both VGA sources aren't on
> > the Video Extension, there isn't excess video signal on the AVE.
> >
> > https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Terminator_Pinout.html
> >
> > I'm not sure about the I/O address of the 8514/A.
> >
> > We run the BVE XGA-2 with the BVE portion sticking outside the slot in a
> > Model 90 [which has planar XGA]. Having the AVE or BVE contacts hanging
> > in free air does not hurt the card or system.
> >
> > Louis Ohland wrote:
> >> The AVE and BVE thing is not altogether useful for anything higher
> >> than 640x480.
> >>
> >> https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Extension.html
> >>
> >> Just as an exercise in mental gymnastics, can you install the 8514/A
> >> in a NON-AVE 16-bit slot? When you stick it into a 16-bit AVE slot, my
> >> SWAG is that turns off the 640x480 from the 8514/A. I really don't
> >> know if anyone has tried it and reported the results.

Hmm, if you tried the 8514 of 1024x768 @ 43.5Hz interlaced, I don't know
if that was supported.

VGA passthrough or [possumble] VGA from the 8514/A should be 60Hz and
compatible.

Good call on the KVM.

Jonathan Carron wrote:
> Thanks Louis - I only actually tried it in the AVE slot... I did not
> get any video output at all. I don't know why I didn't think to try it
> in other slots, even the 20 year old version of me would have at least
> tried that... sigh.
>
> I know the card was picked up, while using the onboard GFX, I observed
> the usual system config changed message, and after loading the ADF in
> set/view cfg I can indeed see the card listed and the slot its in.
>
> I will try putting the card in a non-ave 16bit slot and while im at it
> even a 32 bit one and report back when I get the machine backup on the
> bench!
>
> I will also connect a real monitor to it, I used a KVM for my testing
> which in retrospect might have affected the outcome as well (probably
> not, but maybe).
>
> Thanks for the bit on the terminators, I hadn't stumbled across that
> or even thought about that.
>
> Have a few things to try here for sure before giving up, just figured
> I'd ask around and see if anyone else had played around with this
> before me.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Jonathan
>
>
> On Wednesday 10 January 2024 at 21:46:05 UTC-5, Louis Ohland wrote:
>> To be sehr klar... I need you to take an 8514/A, install it into a
>> Non-AVE 16-bit slot [or a 32-bit if you can waste one], and bring up the
>> system. My SWAG is this was never done because everyone knows it goes in
>> the AVE 16-bit slot because the Holy Ordos IBM ordained it so.
>>
>> Put the video cable on the system board VGA at the first boot, if the
>> 8514/A is happy under set and view configuration, -MAYBE- it supports
>> VGA. At what color depth, I dunno, as the 8514/A uses the INMOS
>> IMSG171S-50 RAMDAC. Perhaps the mythical Mode 13 might help beat out
>> more possumbilities, but you have a 18-bit DAC [6-6-6].
>>
>> My further SWAG is the 8514/A could do VGA if in a non-AVE slot, and VGA
>> drivers will do. Maybe.
>>
>> You might need a video terminator, but since both VGA sources aren't on
>> the Video Extension, there isn't excess video signal on the AVE.
>>
>> https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Terminator_Pinout.html
>>
>> I'm not sure about the I/O address of the 8514/A.
>>
>> We run the BVE XGA-2 with the BVE portion sticking outside the slot in a
>> Model 90 [which has planar XGA]. Having the AVE or BVE contacts hanging
>> in free air does not hurt the card or system.
>> Louis Ohland wrote:
>>> The AVE and BVE thing is not altogether useful for anything higher than
>>> 640x480.
>>>
>>> https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Extension.html
>>>
>>> Just as an exercise in mental gymnastics, can you install the 8514/A in
>>> a NON-AVE 16-bit slot? When you stick it into a 16-bit AVE slot, my SWAG
>>> is that turns off the 640x480 from the 8514/A. I really don't know if
>>> anyone has tried it and reported the results.
>

I looked at the images, there is no apparent outline for a second port
on the 8514/A, nor are there any solder pads for any AVE header, unlike
on the XGA.

Huh, maybe the XGA was considered for dual head?

Jonathan Carron wrote:
> Yeah, I suspect that you could sort of create a dual ahead sort of setup using one of these back in the day.

Dears in most of the case the issue lies with the (incorrect) jumper
settings. Please look at my photos in ardent for a default (working)
config. Be careful of the two different versions which need different
setups.

Louis Ohland <ohland@charter.net> wrote:
> I looked at the images, there is no apparent outline for a second port
> on the 8514/A, nor are there any solder pads for any AVE header, unlike
> on the XGA.
>
> Huh, maybe the XGA was considered for dual head?
>
> Jonathan Carron wrote:
>> Yeah, I suspect that you could sort of create a dual ahead sort of setup
>> using one of these back in the day.
>

I forgot about the jumpers.

Alexandros wrote:
>
> Dears in most of the case the issue lies with the (incorrect) jumper
> settings. Please look at my photos in ardent for a default (working)
> config. Be careful of the two different versions which need different
> setups.
>
>
> Louis Ohland <ohland@charter.net> wrote:
>> I looked at the images, there is no apparent outline for a second port
>> on the 8514/A, nor are there any solder pads for any AVE header, unlike
>> on the XGA.
>>
>> Huh, maybe the XGA was considered for dual head?
>>
>> Jonathan Carron wrote:
>>> Yeah, I suspect that you could sort of create a dual ahead sort of setup
>>> using one of these back in the day.
>>
>
>
>

I see J5 on the daughtercard between U2 and U25.

This is the "old" version, where is the "new" version?

Alexandros wrote:
> Be careful of the two different versions which need different
> setups.

NEW LEVEL 8514/A ASSEMBLY NUMBER OF 07F2519
CURRENT BASE CARD PART NUMBER 38F4041.
CURRENT DAUGHTER CARD PART NUMBER 38F4042

THE 8514/A FRU NUMBER REMAINS P/N 1887971.

THIS DAUGHTER CARD IS NOT INTERCHANGEABLE BETWEEN THE NEW LEVEL ADAPTER
AND THE OLD LEVEL ADAPTER. THE INDIVIDUAL MEMORY MODULES MAY BE MOVED
FROM THE OLD LEVEL DAUGHTER CARD TO THE NEW LEVEL DAUGHTER CARD.

NEW LEVEL 8514/A CARD AND OPTION DISKETTE VERSION 1.01

Record number: H035157

Device: D/T8550
Model: M
Tip key: 042
Date created: O89/05/31
Date last altered: A94/01/13

A NEW VERSION OF THE 8514/A ADAPTER CARD OPTION DISKETTE HAS
BEEN RELEASED TO SUPPORT CHANGES MADE TO THE 8514/A CARD.
THE 8514/A ADAPTER CARD NOW USES ONLY 8K OF SYSTEM ROM. THIS
CARD HAD PREVIOUSLY USED 16K OF ROM. THE NEW LEVEL 8514/A
CARD CAN BE IDENTIFIED BY THE ASSEMBLY NUMBER OF 07F2519 PRINTED
ON THE CARD.

"OR"

THE BASE CARD CAN BE IDENTIFIED AS CURRENT IF IT IS IDENTIFIED
WITH A PART NUMBER OF 38F4041.
THE DAUGHTER CARD CAN BE IDENTIFIED AS CURRENT IF IT IS
IDENTIFIED WITH A PART NUMBER OF 38F4042.

THE 8514/A FRU NUMBER REMAINS P/N1887971.
IF A UP-LEVEL ADAPTER IS REQUIRED AND CAN NOT BE OBTAINED
THROUGH NORMAL CHANNELS A PHONE CALL SHOULD BE PLACED TO
TO GERRY GRECO IN THE REUTILIZATION AND LIQUIDATION
SERVICES DEPARTMENT IN SOMERS NEW YORK AT 914-899-3435
TO OBTAIN AN UP-LEVEL CARD.

THE 8514/A ADAPTER UTILIZES AN ATTACHED DAUGHTER CARD, WHICH
HOLDS THE VIDEO MEMORY MODULES. THIS DAUGHTER CARD IS NOT
INTERCHANGEABLE BETWEEN THE NEW LEVEL ADAPTER AND THE OLD LEVEL
ADAPTER. THE INDIVIDUAL MEMORY MODULES MAY BE MOVED FROM THE
OLD LEVEL DAUGHTER CARD TO THE NEW LEVEL DAUGHTER CARD.

OPTION DISKETTE VERSION 1.01 IS COMPATIBLE WITH BOTH LEVELS OF
THE 8514/A ADAPTER CARD, AND WILL AUTOMATICALLY DIFFERENTIATE
BETWEEN THE TWO CARDS AND LOAD THE PROPER CONFGURATION FILES.
IF THE NEW LEVEL ADAPTER CARD IS CONFIGURED WITH THE OLD LEVEL
OPTION DISKETTE (VERSION 1.0), THE 8514/A ADAPTER CARD WILL
FUNCTION PROPERLY, BUT THE SYSTEM WILL NOT UTILIZE THE ROM
CHANGES OF THE NEW LEVEL ADAPTER CARD.

THE NEW OPTION DISKETTE SHOULD BE COPIED TO THE SERVICER'S AND
THE CUSTOMER'S REFERENCE DISKETTE.

THE 8514/A OPTION DISKETTE VERSION 1.01 IS AVAILABLE THROUGH
MECHANICSBURG AS FORM NUMBER G68X2366.

EARLY LEVEL CARDS CAN BE IDENTIFIED BY 75X9013 OR 75X9014 PRINTED ON THE
CARD IN WHITE INK.

Louis Ohland wrote:
> NEW LEVEL 8514/A ASSEMBLY NUMBER OF 07F2519
> CURRENT BASE CARD PART NUMBER 38F4041.
> CURRENT DAUGHTER CARD PART NUMBER 38F4042
>
> THE 8514/A FRU NUMBER REMAINS P/N 1887971.
>
> THIS DAUGHTER CARD IS NOT INTERCHANGEABLE BETWEEN THE NEW LEVEL ADAPTER
> AND THE OLD LEVEL ADAPTER.  THE INDIVIDUAL MEMORY MODULES MAY BE MOVED
> FROM THE OLD LEVEL DAUGHTER CARD TO THE NEW LEVEL DAUGHTER CARD.
>
> NEW LEVEL 8514/A CARD AND OPTION DISKETTE VERSION 1.01
>
>      Record number:        H035157
>
>        Device:               D/T8550
>        Model:                M
>        Tip key:              042
>        Date created:         O89/05/31
>        Date last altered:    A94/01/13
>
>      A NEW VERSION OF THE 8514/A ADAPTER CARD OPTION DISKETTE HAS
>      BEEN RELEASED TO SUPPORT CHANGES MADE TO THE 8514/A CARD.
>      THE 8514/A ADAPTER CARD NOW USES ONLY 8K OF SYSTEM ROM.  THIS
>      CARD HAD PREVIOUSLY USED 16K OF ROM.  THE NEW LEVEL 8514/A
>      CARD CAN BE IDENTIFIED BY THE ASSEMBLY NUMBER OF 07F2519 PRINTED
>      ON THE CARD.
>
>      "OR"
>
>      THE BASE CARD CAN BE IDENTIFIED AS CURRENT IF IT IS IDENTIFIED
>      WITH A PART NUMBER OF 38F4041.
>      THE DAUGHTER CARD CAN BE IDENTIFIED AS CURRENT IF IT IS
>      IDENTIFIED WITH A PART NUMBER OF 38F4042.
>
>      THE 8514/A FRU NUMBER REMAINS P/N1887971.
>      IF A UP-LEVEL ADAPTER IS REQUIRED AND CAN NOT BE OBTAINED
>      THROUGH NORMAL CHANNELS A PHONE CALL SHOULD BE PLACED TO
>      TO GERRY GRECO IN THE  REUTILIZATION AND LIQUIDATION
>      SERVICES DEPARTMENT IN SOMERS NEW YORK AT 914-899-3435
>      TO OBTAIN AN UP-LEVEL CARD.
>
>      THE 8514/A ADAPTER UTILIZES AN ATTACHED DAUGHTER CARD, WHICH
>      HOLDS THE VIDEO MEMORY MODULES.  THIS DAUGHTER CARD IS NOT
>      INTERCHANGEABLE BETWEEN THE NEW LEVEL ADAPTER AND THE OLD LEVEL
>      ADAPTER.  THE INDIVIDUAL MEMORY MODULES MAY BE MOVED FROM THE
>      OLD LEVEL DAUGHTER CARD TO THE NEW LEVEL DAUGHTER CARD.
>
>      OPTION DISKETTE VERSION 1.01 IS COMPATIBLE WITH BOTH LEVELS OF
>      THE 8514/A ADAPTER CARD, AND WILL AUTOMATICALLY DIFFERENTIATE
>      BETWEEN THE TWO CARDS AND LOAD THE PROPER CONFGURATION FILES.
>      IF THE NEW LEVEL ADAPTER CARD IS CONFIGURED WITH THE OLD LEVEL
>      OPTION DISKETTE (VERSION 1.0), THE 8514/A ADAPTER CARD WILL
>      FUNCTION PROPERLY, BUT THE SYSTEM WILL NOT UTILIZE THE ROM
>      CHANGES OF THE NEW LEVEL ADAPTER CARD.
>
>      THE NEW OPTION DISKETTE SHOULD BE COPIED TO THE SERVICER'S AND
>      THE CUSTOMER'S REFERENCE DISKETTE.
>
>      THE 8514/A OPTION DISKETTE VERSION 1.01 IS AVAILABLE THROUGH
>      MECHANICSBURG AS FORM NUMBER G68X2366.
>

EARLY LEVEL >daughter< CARD is 75X9013 -OR- 75X9014

When the daughtercard is attached to the base 8514/A card, the white ink
stamped number is on the upper left of the card, near the blue tab.

Louis Ohland wrote:
> EARLY LEVEL CARDS CAN BE IDENTIFIED BY 75X9013 OR 75X9014 PRINTED ON THE
>      CARD IN WHITE INK.
>
> Louis Ohland wrote:
>> NEW LEVEL 8514/A ASSEMBLY NUMBER OF 07F2519
>> CURRENT BASE CARD PART NUMBER 38F4041.
>> CURRENT DAUGHTER CARD PART NUMBER 38F4042
>>
>> THE 8514/A FRU NUMBER REMAINS P/N 1887971.
>>
>> THIS DAUGHTER CARD IS NOT INTERCHANGEABLE BETWEEN THE NEW LEVEL
>> ADAPTER AND THE OLD LEVEL ADAPTER.  THE INDIVIDUAL MEMORY MODULES MAY
>> BE MOVED FROM THE OLD LEVEL DAUGHTER CARD TO THE NEW LEVEL DAUGHTER CARD.
>>
>> NEW LEVEL 8514/A CARD AND OPTION DISKETTE VERSION 1.01
>>
>>       Record number:        H035157
>>
>>         Device:               D/T8550
>>         Model:                M
>>         Tip key:              042
>>         Date created:         O89/05/31
>>         Date last altered:    A94/01/13
>>
>>       A NEW VERSION OF THE 8514/A ADAPTER CARD OPTION DISKETTE HAS
>>       BEEN RELEASED TO SUPPORT CHANGES MADE TO THE 8514/A CARD.
>>       THE 8514/A ADAPTER CARD NOW USES ONLY 8K OF SYSTEM ROM.  THIS
>>       CARD HAD PREVIOUSLY USED 16K OF ROM.  THE NEW LEVEL 8514/A
>>       CARD CAN BE IDENTIFIED BY THE ASSEMBLY NUMBER OF 07F2519 PRINTED
>>       ON THE CARD.
>>
>>       "OR"
>>
>>       THE BASE CARD CAN BE IDENTIFIED AS CURRENT IF IT IS IDENTIFIED
>>       WITH A PART NUMBER OF 38F4041.
>>       THE DAUGHTER CARD CAN BE IDENTIFIED AS CURRENT IF IT IS
>>       IDENTIFIED WITH A PART NUMBER OF 38F4042.
>>
>>       THE 8514/A FRU NUMBER REMAINS P/N1887971.
>>       IF A UP-LEVEL ADAPTER IS REQUIRED AND CAN NOT BE OBTAINED
>>       THROUGH NORMAL CHANNELS A PHONE CALL SHOULD BE PLACED TO
>>       TO GERRY GRECO IN THE  REUTILIZATION AND LIQUIDATION
>>       SERVICES DEPARTMENT IN SOMERS NEW YORK AT 914-899-3435
>>       TO OBTAIN AN UP-LEVEL CARD.
>>
>>       THE 8514/A ADAPTER UTILIZES AN ATTACHED DAUGHTER CARD, WHICH
>>       HOLDS THE VIDEO MEMORY MODULES.  THIS DAUGHTER CARD IS NOT
>>       INTERCHANGEABLE BETWEEN THE NEW LEVEL ADAPTER AND THE OLD LEVEL
>>       ADAPTER.  THE INDIVIDUAL MEMORY MODULES MAY BE MOVED FROM THE
>>       OLD LEVEL DAUGHTER CARD TO THE NEW LEVEL DAUGHTER CARD.
>>
>>       OPTION DISKETTE VERSION 1.01 IS COMPATIBLE WITH BOTH LEVELS OF
>>       THE 8514/A ADAPTER CARD, AND WILL AUTOMATICALLY DIFFERENTIATE
>>       BETWEEN THE TWO CARDS AND LOAD THE PROPER CONFGURATION FILES.
>>       IF THE NEW LEVEL ADAPTER CARD IS CONFIGURED WITH THE OLD LEVEL
>>       OPTION DISKETTE (VERSION 1.0), THE 8514/A ADAPTER CARD WILL
>>       FUNCTION PROPERLY, BUT THE SYSTEM WILL NOT UTILIZE THE ROM
>>       CHANGES OF THE NEW LEVEL ADAPTER CARD.
>>
>>       THE NEW OPTION DISKETTE SHOULD BE COPIED TO THE SERVICER'S AND
>>       THE CUSTOMER'S REFERENCE DISKETTE.
>>
>>       THE 8514/A OPTION DISKETTE VERSION 1.01 IS AVAILABLE THROUGH
>>       MECHANICSBURG AS FORM NUMBER G68X2366.
>>

I was out handling some unmelted global warming, and I _think_ I
understand what you meant...

J5 [on the 8514/A memory daughtercard] is moved to a different position,
depending on the presence [or absence] of extra memory installed on the
8514/A memory daughtercard.

Alexandros wrote:
> Be careful of the two different versions which need different setups.

So...
THE 8514/A FRU NUMBER REMAINS P/N 1887971

OLD LEVEL 8514/A ASSEMBLY NUMBER OF nnn
OLD BASE CARD PART NUMBER 75X4439.
OLD DAUGHTER CARD PART NUMBER 75X9013 or 75X9014

NEW LEVEL 8514/A ASSEMBLY NUMBER OF 07F2519
CURRENT BASE CARD PART NUMBER 38F4041.
CURRENT DAUGHTER CARD PART NUMBER 38F4042

Louis Ohland wrote:
> EARLY LEVEL CARDS CAN BE IDENTIFIED BY 75X9013 OR 75X9014 PRINTED ON THE
>      CARD IN WHITE INK.
>
> Louis Ohland wrote:
>> NEW LEVEL 8514/A ASSEMBLY NUMBER OF 07F2519
>> CURRENT BASE CARD PART NUMBER 38F4041.
>> CURRENT DAUGHTER CARD PART NUMBER 38F4042
>>
>> THE 8514/A FRU NUMBER REMAINS P/N 1887971.

?

> OLD LEVEL 8514/A ASSEMBLY NUMBER OF 75X4439
> OLD BASE CARD PART NUMBER 75X9014.
> OLD DAUGHTER CARD PART NUMBER 75X9013

https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/187-054.txt

With the IBM Display Adapter 8514/A dual screen configurations, a second
screen may be attached to the integrated display adapter on the system
unit. The second screen displays the output of the integrated display
adapter. The primary screen (attached to the IBM Display Adapter
8514/A) displays either the output from the integrated display adapter
or the advanced function output of the IBM Display Adapter 8514/A,
depending on whether advanced function mode has been set on the IBM
Display Adapter 8514/A.

On Thursday 11 January 2024 at 15:29:20 UTC-5, Louis Ohland wrote:
> https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/187-054.txt
>
> With the IBM Display Adapter 8514/A dual screen configurations, a second
> screen may be attached to the integrated display adapter on the system
> unit. The second screen displays the output of the integrated display
> adapter. The primary screen (attached to the IBM Display Adapter
> 8514/A) displays either the output from the integrated display adapter
> or the advanced function output of the IBM Display Adapter 8514/A,
> depending on whether advanced function mode has been set on the IBM
> Display Adapter 8514/A.
Thanks Louis, Alexandros

I only found one set of jumpers, J5, for memory 0.5m or 1.5m enablement - mine has all chips populated, so the jumper is set to 1.5m.

I noticed this on the video/187-054.txt you sent :

" The IBM Display Adapter has VDI drivers to support the IBM
Personal Computer Graphics Development Toolkit, Version 1.20 (IBM
Personal Computer DOS) and IBM Operating System/2 Graphics
Development Toolkit. The VDI drivers are included with the Graphics
Development Toolkits. Refer to Programming Announcement 287-106,
dated April 2, 1987, for details.
For the IBM Display Adapter 8514/A, the drivers are written to
the adapter interface and will support the following modes:
o 640 x 480 -- 256 colors
o 640 x 480 -- 16 colors
o 1024 x 768 -- 256 colors
o 1024 x 768 -- 16 colors
The drivers will allow VDI applications to take advantage of
the new functions available in the adapter, such as improved
performance, 256 colors and high content. "

So it seems that indeed it can do 640x480, will have to play with it a bit more to figure out how to do that.

There is no configuration in the ready/set menu off refdisk, so I presume the actual floppydisk for this thing has some sort of additional config, perhaps that's why its not working.

Uh, do you mean there is no item under "Set Configuration" > "View
Configuration" ?

What are you looking for? If you are looking for an item for 640, forget
it. The ADF has nothing for it. Since we lack a tech ref, it's merely
speculation. But the XGA-2 does not have an item to change resolutions
either.

https://www.ardent-tool.com/adapters/adf/@ef7f.adf

FixedResources
pos[0]=XXXXXXXXb
pos[1]=00000000b
pos[2]=00000000b
pos[3]=00000000b

nameditem
Prompt "Configuration not alterable"
Choice "Installed"
pos[0]=XXXXXXXXb
mem 0c6800h-0c7fffh 0ca000h-0ca7ffh

Jonathan Carron wrote:
> There is no configuration in the ready/set menu off refdisk, so I presume the actual floppydisk for this thing has some sort of additional config, perhaps that's why its not working.

Whoop - forgive me, probably my incorrect terminology here, I attached a screen grab of the refdisk I am referring to: https://postimg.cc/3yk7jLRF

I understand what you now mean, the configuration for the card is not alterable. Will try moving the card to the other slots tomorrow....

thanks,
Jonathan

On Thursday 11 January 2024 at 20:43:25 UTC-5, Louis Ohland wrote:
> Uh, do you mean there is no item under "Set Configuration" > "View
> Configuration" ?
>
> What are you looking for? If you are looking for an item for 640, forget
> it. The ADF has nothing for it. Since we lack a tech ref, it's merely
> speculation. But the XGA-2 does not have an item to change resolutions
> either.
>
> https://www.ardent-tool.com/adapters/adf/@ef7f.adf
>
> FixedResources
> pos[0]=XXXXXXXXb
> pos[1]=00000000b
> pos[2]=00000000b
> pos[3]=00000000b
>
> nameditem
> Prompt "Configuration not alterable"
> Choice "Installed"
> pos[0]=XXXXXXXXb
> mem 0c6800h-0c7fffh 0ca000h-0ca7ffh
> Jonathan Carron wrote:
> > There is no configuration in the ready/set menu off refdisk, so I presume the actual floppydisk for this thing has some sort of additional config, perhaps that's why its not working.

The Godfather of "Our Thing", Peter Wendt, had a name for IBM Tech Cant,
Technoslovakian.

After enough time, you will adopt "Rightspeak" and learn to love the IBM
lash.

I still do not grok why they would need the VGA oscillator, maybe as a
reference? The VGA clock from the system board would be on the AVE, and
available to the 8514/A.

Jonathan Carron wrote:
> Whoop - forgive me, probably my incorrect terminology here, I attached a screen grab of the refdisk I am referring to: https://postimg.cc/3yk7jLRF
>
> I understand what you now mean, the configuration for the card is not alterable. Will try moving the card to the other slots tomorrow....
>
> thanks,
> Jonathan
>
>
> On Thursday 11 January 2024 at 20:43:25 UTC-5, Louis Ohland wrote:
>> Uh, do you mean there is no item under "Set Configuration" > "View
>> Configuration" ?
>>
>> What are you looking for? If you are looking for an item for 640, forget
>> it. The ADF has nothing for it. Since we lack a tech ref, it's merely
>> speculation. But the XGA-2 does not have an item to change resolutions
>> either.
>>
>> https://www.ardent-tool.com/adapters/adf/@ef7f.adf
>>
>> FixedResources
>> pos[0]=XXXXXXXXb
>> pos[1]=00000000b
>> pos[2]=00000000b
>> pos[3]=00000000b
>>
>> nameditem
>> Prompt "Configuration not alterable"
>> Choice "Installed"
>> pos[0]=XXXXXXXXb
>> mem 0c6800h-0c7fffh 0ca000h-0ca7ffh
>> Jonathan Carron wrote:
>>> There is no configuration in the ready/set menu off refdisk, so I presume the actual floppydisk for this thing has some sort of additional config, perhaps that's why its not working.

On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 9:40:41 AM UTC-5, Louis Ohland wrote:
> The Godfather of "Our Thing", Peter Wendt, had a name for IBM Tech Cant,
> Technoslovakian.
>
> After enough time, you will adopt "Rightspeak" and learn to love the IBM
> lash.
>
> I still do not grok why they would need the VGA oscillator, maybe as a
> reference? The VGA clock from the system board would be on the AVE, and
> available to the 8514/A.
> Jonathan Carron wrote:
> > Whoop - forgive me, probably my incorrect terminology here, I attached a screen grab of the refdisk I am referring to: https://postimg.cc/3yk7jLRF
> >
> > I understand what you now mean, the configuration for the card is not alterable. Will try moving the card to the other slots tomorrow....
> >
> > thanks,
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> > On Thursday 11 January 2024 at 20:43:25 UTC-5, Louis Ohland wrote:
> >> Uh, do you mean there is no item under "Set Configuration" > "View
> >> Configuration" ?
> >>
> >> What are you looking for? If you are looking for an item for 640, forget
> >> it. The ADF has nothing for it. Since we lack a tech ref, it's merely
> >> speculation. But the XGA-2 does not have an item to change resolutions
> >> either.
> >>
> >> https://www.ardent-tool.com/adapters/adf/@ef7f.adf
> >>
> >> FixedResources
> >> pos[0]=XXXXXXXXb
> >> pos[1]=00000000b
> >> pos[2]=00000000b
> >> pos[3]=00000000b
> >>
> >> nameditem
> >> Prompt "Configuration not alterable"
> >> Choice "Installed"
> >> pos[0]=XXXXXXXXb
> >> mem 0c6800h-0c7fffh 0ca000h-0ca7ffh
> >> Jonathan Carron wrote:
> >>> There is no configuration in the ready/set menu off refdisk, so I presume the actual floppydisk for this thing has some sort of additional config, perhaps that's why its not working.

I've got a reply 80 and you'll find every 8514 card is slow compared to the oboard video on the TurboProcessor... and you don't get any benefit in DOS.. I have a Radius MultiView 24/MC https://ardent-tool.com/video/Radius_MV24.html and it has 3 onboard accelerators and 3MB of RAM. Sure it can do stupid colors in 1024x768... but boy is it slow in Windows 3.1 vs the onboard cirrus logic even in the 32bit slot.