Hi, I'm looking for discussions about compressing random bit streams. For example, "Can you win by betting on random coin tosses?", where the arguments typically follow the reasoning, "No matter what you bet, on average, you'll win half the time, so you will break even", which I consider defeatist since if you play 'unlimited double up', the outcome is effectively, "Heads, you win, and tails, you break even". Essentially, you don't need to know what the outcome of next toss will be, only that there will be a next toss..

Is there somewhere that folks sill discuss these things?

James

On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 3:35:55 PM UTC+2, youlto...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi, I'm looking for discussions about compressing random bit streams. For example, "Can you win by betting on random coin tosses?", where the arguments typically follow the reasoning, "No matter what you bet, on average, you'll win half the time, so you will break even", which I consider defeatist since if you play 'unlimited double up', the outcome is effectively, "Heads, you win, and tails, you break even". Essentially, you don't need to know what the outcome of next toss will be, only that there will be a next toss..
>
> Is there somewhere that folks sill discuss these things?
>
> James

You can discuss it at: https://encode.su/

TheVoiid <dioveht@home.nl> writes:
> On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 3:35:55 PM UTC+2, youlto...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi, I'm looking for discussions about compressing random bit
>> streams. For example, "Can you win by betting on random coin
>> tosses?", where the arguments typically follow the reasoning, "No
>> matter what you bet, on average, you'll win half the time, so you
>> will break even", which I consider defeatist since if you play
>> 'unlimited double up', the outcome is effectively, "Heads, you win,
>> and tails, you break even". Essentially, you don't need to know what
>> the outcome of next toss will be, only that there will be a next
>> toss.
>>
>> Is there somewhere that folks sill discuss these things?
>>
>> James
>
> You can discuss it at: https://encode.su/

Why not discuss it here?

Like most Usenet newsgroups, activity here has fallen off, but someone
could still start an interesting discussion.

I'll note that encode.su links to the FAQ for this newsgroup:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/compression-faq/part1/section-8.html

QUOTE:
9.1 Introduction

It is mathematically impossible to create a program compressing without loss
*all* files by at least one bit (see below and also item 73 in part 2 of this
FAQ). Yet from time to time some people claim to have invented a new algorithm
for doing so. Such algorithms are claimed to compress random data and to be
applicable recursively, that is, applying the compressor to the compressed
output of the previous run, possibly multiple times. Fantastic compression
ratios of over 100:1 on random data are claimed to be actually obtained.

Such claims inevitably generate a lot of activity on comp.compression, which
can last for several months. Large bursts of activity were generated by WEB
Technologies and by Jules Gilbert. Premier Research Corporation (with a
compressor called MINC) made only a brief appearance but came back later with a
Web page at http://www.pacminc.com. The Hyper Space method invented by David
C. James is another contender with a patent obtained in July 96. Another large
burst occured in Dec 97 and Jan 98: Matthew Burch <apoc@pipeline.com> applied
for a patent in Dec 97, but publicly admitted a few days later that his method
was flawed; he then posted several dozen messages in a few days about another
magic method based on primes, and again ended up admitting that his new method
was flawed. (Usually people disappear from comp.compression and appear again 6
months or a year later, rather than admitting their error.)

Other people have also claimed incredible compression ratios, but the programs
(OWS, WIC) were quickly shown to be fake (not compressing at all). This topic
is covered in item 10 of this FAQ.
END QUOTE

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

James Youlton <youltonjames@gmail.com> writes:
> Hi, I'm looking for discussions about compressing random bit streams.
> For example, "Can you win by betting on random coin tosses?", where
> the arguments typically follow the reasoning, "No matter what you bet,
> on average, you'll win half the time, so you will break even", which I
> consider defeatist since if you play 'unlimited double up', the
> outcome is effectively, "Heads, you win, and tails, you break even".
> Essentially, you don't need to know what the outcome of next toss will
> be, only that there will be a next toss.

What resource of value do you have access to in unlimited quantities?
If you have no such resource, you can't play this strategy.

Phil
--
We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have
gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast
aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
-- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/

On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 12:40:45 PM UTC-7, Phil Carmody wrote:
> James Youlton <youlto...@gmail.com> writes:
> > Hi, I'm looking for discussions about compressing random bit streams.
> > For example, "Can you win by betting on random coin tosses?", where
> > the arguments typically follow the reasoning, "No matter what you bet,
> > on average, you'll win half the time, so you will break even", which I
> > consider defeatist since if you play 'unlimited double up', the
> > outcome is effectively, "Heads, you win, and tails, you break even".
> > Essentially, you don't need to know what the outcome of next toss will
> > be, only that there will be a next toss.
> What resource of value do you have access to in unlimited quantities?
> If you have no such resource, you can't play this strategy.
>
> Phil
> --
> We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have
> gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast
> aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
> -- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/

I have access to random bits in essentially unlimited quantities. Now, for the plan...

James

------

"Insurance play" If you are 2 ahead, quit with your winnings, else if you are 4 behind, get your 4 back, all at a cost of 1 per play (cost=1 bit (compress or don't compress, then win 2 or break even). You can't do that in the real world, but this isn't the real world, so you can do things like playing "unlimited double up" that no on in their right mind would bet against.

333366
333070
333120
332308
333392
333558
333134
333082
332928
333962
332742
333248
333546
332086
330558
332620

RNG_Randomize()
For I = 1 To 16
TB2.Text &= Str(TestMillion_2_4) & vbCrLf
Application.DoEvents()
If Abort Then End
Next

Function TestMillion_2_4() As Int32

Dim retval As Int32 = 0
Dim winLose As Int32, M As Int32

For M = 1 To 1000000
winLose = 0
Do While True
If (RNG() And 1) = 1 Then
winLose -= 1
If winLose = -4 Then retval -= 1 : Exit Do
Else
winLose += 1
If winLose = +2 Then retval += 1 : Exit Do
End If
Loop
Next
Return retval

End Function

When I get calls from telemarketers or wrong numbers, I answer, "No se habla espanol."