Is there a way to make the enter key do a single line space instead of a
double line space?

On Friday, March 29, 2024, at 05:13 PM, David wrote:

> Is there a way to make the enter key do a single line space instead of a
> double line space?

In the Composition settings uncheck the option "Use Paragraph format
instead of Body Text by default".

Bill H <billh@domain.is.invalid> wrote:

> David wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to make the enter key do a single line space instead of a
>> double line space?
>
> In the Composition settings uncheck the option "Use Paragraph format
> instead of Body Text by default".

Formatting means the OP is composing in HTML or RTF. Plain text has no
formatting. In some e-mail clients or editors, Enter will end a
paragraph break (for example, as I recall, in WordPerfect showing code
chars, you'll see a "P" with a doubled vertical stroke), so the spacing
you get between paragraphs is either preset in the editor, or
configurable by the user. The typical workaround is to insert a
linebreak instead of a paragraph break. The Shift+Enter key combo often
works to insert a linebreak.

Enter: insert a paragraph break.
Shift+Enter: insert a linebreak.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/keyboard-shortcuts-thunderbird
Mentions Shift+Enter to insert a linebreak.

David wrote:

> Is there a way to make the enter key do a single line space instead of a
> double line space?

Use plain text, instead of HTML?

On 3/30/24 01:34, VanguardLH wrote:
> Bill H <billh@domain.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>> David wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a way to make the enter key do a single line space instead of a
>>> double line space?
>>
>> In the Composition settings uncheck the option "Use Paragraph format
>> instead of Body Text by default".
>
> Formatting means the OP is composing in HTML or RTF. Plain text has no
> formatting. In some e-mail clients or editors, Enter will end a
> paragraph break (for example, as I recall, in WordPerfect showing code
> chars, you'll see a "P" with a doubled vertical stroke), so the spacing
> you get between paragraphs is either preset in the editor, or
> configurable by the user. The typical workaround is to insert a
> linebreak instead of a paragraph break. The Shift+Enter key combo often
> works to insert a linebreak.
>
> Enter: insert a paragraph break.
> Shift+Enter: insert a linebreak.
>
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/keyboard-shortcuts-thunderbird
> Mentions Shift+Enter to insert a linebreak.

If I understand correctly a paragraph-break is what I have always called
a double line-break, so what's wrong withg just hitting enter twice? Too
much overhead? Agreed that people should use only plain-text and never
rich text or HTML.

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 17:21:24 -0700, Bill H wrote:

> On Friday, March 29, 2024, at 05:13 PM, David wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to make the enter key do a single line space instead of
>> a double line space?
>
> In the Composition settings uncheck the option "Use Paragraph format
> instead of Body Text by default".

That is what I do. (Presumably the OP is referring to email not usenet
since he's using PAN.)

If you compose in paragraph style - i.e. within <p> tags - TB will put a
gap both before and after the paragraph - except the first and last. So
it's not exactly equivalent to putting two carriage returns /after/ the
paragraph like we used to on a typewriter. But the effect is the same if
every paragraph uses paragraph style.

I don't know whether most email clients and webmail sites display <p> tags
like that, e.g. </pre> followed by <p> will have a gap between them.
--
(Remove any numerics from my email address.)

bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> Bill H <billh@domain.is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> David wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there a way to make the enter key do a single line space instead
>>>> of a double line space?
>>>
>>> In the Composition settings uncheck the option "Use Paragraph format
>>> instead of Body Text by default".
>>
>> Formatting means the OP is composing in HTML or RTF. Plain text has
>> no formatting. In some e-mail clients or editors, Enter will end a
>> paragraph break (for example, as I recall, in WordPerfect showing
>> code chars, you'll see a "P" with a doubled vertical stroke), so the
>> spacing you get between paragraphs is either preset in the editor,
>> or configurable by the user. The typical workaround is to insert a
>> linebreak instead of a paragraph break. The Shift+Enter key combo
>> often works to insert a linebreak.
>>
>> Enter: insert a paragraph break.
>> Shift+Enter: insert a linebreak.
>>
>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/keyboard-shortcuts-thunderbird
>> Mentions Shift+Enter to insert a linebreak.
>
> If I understand correctly a paragraph-break is what I have always
> called a double line-break, so what's wrong withg just hitting enter
> twice? Too much overhead? Agreed that people should use only
> plain-text and never rich text or HTML.

HTML has the nasty habit of ignoring whitespace. Multiple spaces will
look like a single space, for example. You need to differentiate what
type of breaks and whitespace you want in HTML.

<p> is a paragraph break
<br> is a linebreak
<pre> keeps the plain text layout
&nbsp is a no-break-space character (whitespace not ignored)

With CSS a whole bunch of shit comes into play regarding formatting.

Hitting Enter twice (add 2 linebreaks) in plain text would add a blank
line between paragraphs: one linebreak (\n) at the end of the current
line, and a linebreak on its own line. In HTML, you would be adding 2
paragraph markers, and get even more whitespace between paragraphs.

Even with plain text, I've seen posters that indent the first line of a
paragraph, and also add a blank line between paragraphs. The indent was
back for books that didn't have blank lines between paragraphs, and a
means of identifying the start of a new paragraph. If you use one, the
other is superfluous.

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 17:21:24 -0700, Bill H wrote:

> On Friday, March 29, 2024, at 05:13 PM, David wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to make the enter key do a single line space instead of
>> a double line space?
>
> In the Composition settings uncheck the option "Use Paragraph format
> instead of Body Text by default".

That fixed it. Thanks!

On 3/30/24 15:52, VanguardLH wrote:
> bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> Bill H <billh@domain.is.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> David wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is there a way to make the enter key do a single line space instead
>>>>> of a double line space?
>>>>
>>>> In the Composition settings uncheck the option "Use Paragraph format
>>>> instead of Body Text by default".
>>>
>>> Formatting means the OP is composing in HTML or RTF. Plain text has
>>> no formatting. In some e-mail clients or editors, Enter will end a
>>> paragraph break (for example, as I recall, in WordPerfect showing
>>> code chars, you'll see a "P" with a doubled vertical stroke), so the
>>> spacing you get between paragraphs is either preset in the editor,
>>> or configurable by the user. The typical workaround is to insert a
>>> linebreak instead of a paragraph break. The Shift+Enter key combo
>>> often works to insert a linebreak.
>>>
>>> Enter: insert a paragraph break.
>>> Shift+Enter: insert a linebreak.
>>>
>>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/keyboard-shortcuts-thunderbird
>>> Mentions Shift+Enter to insert a linebreak.
>>
>> If I understand correctly a paragraph-break is what I have always
>> called a double line-break, so what's wrong withg just hitting enter
>> twice? Too much overhead? Agreed that people should use only
>> plain-text and never rich text or HTML.
>
> HTML has the nasty habit of ignoring whitespace. Multiple spaces will
> look like a single space, for example. You need to differentiate what
> type of breaks and whitespace you want in HTML.
>
> <p> is a paragraph break
> <br> is a linebreak
> <pre> keeps the plain text layout
> &nbsp is a no-break-space character (whitespace not ignored)
>
> With CSS a whole bunch of shit comes into play regarding formatting.
>
> Hitting Enter twice (add 2 linebreaks) in plain text would add a blank
> line between paragraphs: one linebreak (\n) at the end of the current
> line, and a linebreak on its own line. In HTML, you would be adding 2
> paragraph markers, and get even more whitespace between paragraphs.
>
> Even with plain text, I've seen posters that indent the first line of a
> paragraph, and also add a blank line between paragraphs. The indent was
> back for books that didn't have blank lines between paragraphs, and a
> means of identifying the start of a new paragraph. If you use one, the
> other is superfluous.

There are many customs still around from typewriter days, one of them is
minimal white space and indented leading lines instead of separating
blank lines between paragraphs. They remind me of early coding 'crunch'
but I've even seen hybrid forms of indented leading lines together with
blank lines. :-)

But the reason I oppose ANYTHING other than plain text in everyday comms
is the security risk. When I see an HTML page I feel a need to read it
as source code which has got to be the mother of all PITA's, while just
clicking any part of it would make feel real stupid.

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 21:00:56 -0400, bad?sector
<forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote:

<chuck it out>

>There are many customs still around from typewriter days, one of them is
>minimal white space and indented leading lines instead of separating
>blank lines between paragraphs.

Um, from vague memory dealing wiff office correspondence *appearance*
wayback when, the habit of space/white line (replacing no
space/indented paras) sort of came along with the arrival of electric
typewriters, especially the IBM Selectric with the spinning typeball,
in the early 60's.

It led to a style of presentation, possibly called *open block*... no
indents and less formal language and punctuation.

Commas especially disappeared from address lines, and (in the
British-influenced world) saw the salutary line end with a colon,
rather than comma.

On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 22:33:04 -0000 (UTC), David <nospam@inter.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 17:21:24 -0700, Bill H wrote:
>
>> On Friday, March 29, 2024, at 05:13 PM, David wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a way to make the enter key do a single line space instead of
>>> a double line space?
>>
>> In the Composition settings uncheck the option "Use Paragraph format
>> instead of Body Text by default".
>
>That fixed it. Thanks!

Shift+Enter also creates a single-line space.

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 10:29:49 -0500, Puffer Belly wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 22:33:04 -0000 (UTC), David <nospam@inter.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 17:21:24 -0700, Bill H wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, March 29, 2024, at 05:13 PM, David wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there a way to make the enter key do a single line space instead
>>>> of a double line space?
>>>
>>> In the Composition settings uncheck the option "Use Paragraph format
>>> instead of Body Text by default".
>>
>>That fixed it. Thanks!
>
> Shift+Enter also creates a single-line space.

More precisely, *if* you're writing in paragraph style, it inserts a line
break rather than ending the paragraph and starting another which is what
Enter does. In 'body text' it's the same as Enter.
--
(Remove any numerics from my email address.)

On 3/30/24 21:36, Nobody wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Mar 2024 21:00:56 -0400, bad?sector
> <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote:
>
> <chuck it out>
>
>> There are many customs still around from typewriter days, one of them is
>> minimal white space and indented leading lines instead of separating
>> blank lines between paragraphs.
>
> Um, from vague memory dealing wiff office correspondence *appearance*
> wayback when, the habit of space/white line (replacing no
> space/indented paras) sort of came along with the arrival of electric
> typewriters, especially the IBM Selectric with the spinning typeball,
> in the early 60's.
>
> It led to a style of presentation, possibly called *open block*... no
> indents and less formal language and punctuation.
>
> Commas especially disappeared from address lines, and (in the
> British-influenced world) saw the salutary line end with a colon,
> rather than comma.

Great, so we can conclude that it was IBM that initiated the massacre of
zillions of trees :-)

I always thought it was just individual lawlessness. Either way with
current web page design and printing that often does 100 black pages
with no way to stop we have come a long way from IBM's modest
beginnings. I still remember paper sheets typewritten on both sides so
tight as to leave no space for a fly to take a crap on.