"Sailfish" <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote

Win11's new desktop seems to be an admission of
| their mistake but even there the skimpy rounded corners and lack of Aero
| transparency is strange.
| I see no point in either round corners or transparency. It's
just an unnecessary load on graphics rendering. I always
use classic display. But I haven't seen Win11. To me that's
all frippery. As with cars, the only point is to make the last
version look dated.

On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 12:11:43 -0700, Sailfish
<NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:

>Ken Blake graced us with on 3/16/2022 9:46 AM:
>> On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 08:28:22 -0700, Sailfish
>> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>>
>>> REF:
>>> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-is-testing-ads-in-the-windows-11-file-explorer/
>>>
>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>> As you can imagine, the reaction to this was adverse, to say the least,
>>> with some saying that File Explorer is "one of the worst places to show
>>> ads," while others added that this is the way to go if Microsoft wants
>>> "people ditching Explorer for something else."
>>
>>> Having to get nagged for wanting to view my filelist? Seriously!? It's
>>> features like this that make Win7 holdouts like myself to dig in even
>>> deeper resisting upgrading.
>>
>> Your choice, of course. My choice for many Windows components and
>> other Microsoft products is to use a better alternative
>>
>Windows Explorer has it's uses sice it is integral to the OS;

Being integral to the operating system is meaningless to me. What I
mostly care about is functionality and GUI. I use Directory Opus which
to me is *much* better.

> however, I
>mostly use it as a launch pad for more productive prgrams

Directory Opus can be a launch pad for *many* programs of your choice.

> such as Agent
>Ransack (one of the best File Search programs I've found.

Search Everything is much faster and much better for filename
searches, and that's what I use. However it doesn't do file content
searches, so I use Agent Ransack for that.

--
The real, original Ken Blake, not some other newcomer

Mayayana wrote:

> "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote
>
>> - turn OFF the idiotic merging of icons on the taskbar: a) so you get a
>> separate icon for every running instance of the same program
>
> Yes, yes, yes. How did you do that? The settings I see don't seem to
> give me that option, even though I was able to do it in Win7.

This is the Windows 7 newsgroup, and you say you already know how to do
that in Windows 7.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/512636/win7_taskbar_icons.html

> I hate having 3 Firefox or Notepad open and then lokking at tiny
> icon-views to see which is which.

If you thought you were in a Windows 10 or 11 newsgroup, because
Sailfish posted in the wrong newsgroup about a Windows 11 issue (and an
issue in the Insider channel, not the release channel):

- Right-click on taskbar > Taskbar settings.
- Scroll down the right pane to "Combine taskbar buttons".
- Select "Never".

Same info here:
https://www.majorgeeks.com/content/page/how_to_alwayssometimesor_never_combine_taskbar_buttons_in_windows_10.html

"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote

|
| https://www.pcworld.com/article/512636/win7_taskbar_icons.html
|

Thanks. Silly me. I thought "Never combine" meant never
combine. Now I see that I apparently wanted "Hide Labels". I
hope I didn't ruin your day by talking about Win10 in a Win11
thread in a Win7 group... Say... what are you doing talking
about Win11 in a Win7 group, you rat? :)

On 3/18/2022 3:11 PM, Sailfish wrote:
> Ken Blake graced us with on 3/16/2022 9:46 AM:
>> On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 08:28:22 -0700, Sailfish
>> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>>
>>> REF: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-is-testing-ads-in-the-windows-11-file-explorer/
>>>
>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>> As you can imagine, the reaction to this was adverse, to say the least, with some saying that File Explorer is "one of the worst places to show ads," while others added that this is the way to go if Microsoft wants "people ditching Explorer for something else."
>>
>>> Having to get nagged for wanting to view my filelist? Seriously!? It's features like this that make Win7 holdouts like myself to dig in even deeper resisting upgrading.
>>
>> Your choice, of course. My choice for many Windows components and
>> other Microsoft products is to use a better alternative
>>
> Windows Explorer has it's uses sice it is integral to the OS; however, I mostly use it as a launch pad for more productive prgrams such as Agent Ransack (one of the best File Search programs I've found.
>
> Still, as Paul mentioned, Microsoft attempting to monetize even base-level pieces of the OS seems more like a company in financial trouble than a multinational company secure in its ability to produce newer features to offer its base.
>

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MSFT/microsoft/number-of-employees

Interactive chart of Microsoft (MSFT) annual worldwide employee count from 2010 to 2021.

Microsoft total number of employees in 2021 was 181,000, a 11.04% increase from 2020.
Microsoft total number of employees in 2020 was 163,000, a 13.19% increase from 2019.
Microsoft total number of employees in 2019 was 144,000, a 9.92% increase from 2018.
Microsoft total number of employees in 2018 was 131,000, a 5.65% increase from 2017.

Hmmm.

No danger signal there.

Paul

On 3/18/2022 5:16 PM, Mayayana wrote:
> "Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
>
> |
> | That requires the Ridgecrop fat32formatter program.
> |
>
> Thanks, but BootIt handles it fine. However, BootIt had
> trouble getting at the disk. Apparently Win10 locked it.
> Once I used Win10 to shrink C drive, I made partitions,
> then I booted into BootIt and resized them.

There are occasionally interactions between "Disk Managers".
(Like if you used Acronis Disk Director and Disk Management
at the same time.)

Some softwares, will not perform their function, if
Disk Management is running. Once you exit Disk Management,
then they feel they are in control.

But if I were to test that again today, I don't know
if I could reproduce the same table of malfunctions or not.

Paul

Mayayana wrote:

> "VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote
>
>> https://www.pcworld.com/article/512636/win7_taskbar_icons.html
>
> Thanks. Silly me. I thought "Never combine" meant never combine. Now I
> see that I apparently wanted "Hide Labels".

The choices I have for "Combine taskbar buttons" are:

Windows 10:
- Always, hide labels
- When taskbar is full
- Never

Windows 7:
- Always combine, hide labels
- Combine when taskbar is full
- Never combine

Slightly different strings, but same effects. "Never [combine]" is
selected for you, but the taskbar buttons are still combining? In
Microsoft's infinitesimal wisdom, the setting disappeared from Windows
11. See:

https://nerdschalk.com/how-to-ungroup-icons-on-windows-11-taskbar-with-a-registry-hack/

For Windows 10/11, check the following registry entry and its value:

Key: HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Advanced
Item name: TaskbarGlomLevel (DWORD)
Item value: 0 = Always combine, hide labels
1 = Combine when taskbar is full
2 = Never combine

The above article mentions configuring a policy. It also mentions using
StartAllBack ($4.99 for 1 PC, $8.99 for 2 PCs) to configure taskbar
grouping. Sucks having to buy something to restore a feature.

Do you have multiple monitors?

> I hope I didn't ruin your day by talking about Win10 in a Win11 thread
> in a Win7 group... Say... what are you doing talking about Win11 in a
> Win7 group, you rat? :)

Greeting another lost traveler that stepped in the same cow pie.

<snip>
> I've used every version of Windows from Windows 3 onwards (95, 98, ME,
> 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10). There have been some useful improvements
> along the way such as a better file manager post-98. There have also
> been some worsenings. For example, the file-search capabilities of XP
> were far better than anything since - faster, more thorough (*) and
> controllable as to whether you search filenames only or filenames and
> contents). But all the change was evolutionary.
<snip>

Give the freeware search program, "Everything" a try, it's impressively
fast on my w10. Check out these sections
- How do I use boolean operators?
- How do I use wildcards?
- How do I include spaces in my search?
- How do I search for a file type?
https://www.voidtools.com/faq/

"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote

| Windows 10:
| - Always, hide labels
| - When taskbar is full
| - Never
| | Windows 7:
| - Always combine, hide labels
| - Combine when taskbar is full
| - Never combine
| | Slightly different strings, but same effects. "Never [combine]" is
| selected for you, but the taskbar buttons are still combining?

Yes. That's why I figured there must be another setting
somewhere. I just had a scary thought... The sign said it
was Win10 Home, but I wonder if I would have noticed if
it were actually 11. I'll have to double-check. Aside from setting
it up I haven't used it much yet.

| In
| Microsoft's infinitesimal wisdom, the setting disappeared from Windows
| 11. See:
| |
https://nerdschalk.com/how-to-ungroup-icons-on-windows-11-taskbar-with-a-registry-hack/
| | For Windows 10/11, check the following registry entry and its value:
| | Key: HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Advanced
| Item name: TaskbarGlomLevel (DWORD)
| Item value: 0 = Always combine, hide labels
| 1 = Combine when taskbar is full
| 2 = Never combine
| | The above article mentions configuring a policy. It also mentions using
| StartAllBack ($4.99 for 1 PC, $8.99 for 2 PCs) to configure taskbar
| grouping. Sucks having to buy something to restore a feature.
|

Thanks. I'l l try the Registry setting. I also don't want to
start buying things. It's not so much the money but rather
that it shouldn't be necessary. The Registry settings should
be public. Increasiingly, the tweaking sites talk about GPEdit
settings and leave out Registry. That's already once removed
from the real setting.

Though I am using Classic Shell. It's hard to believe MS
could doo such a thorough job of screwing up something as
simple as the taskbar and Start Menu, but that Win10 Start
Menu looks to me like some kind of busy, full-page ad in
a magazine. It takes seconds just to figure out what I'm
looking at. With Classic Shell I I think I have ShutDown,
Run, Settings, Programs. Just like XP. :)

| Do you have multiple monitors?
|

No. Not with this one. It's a new Asus laptop.

Mayayana graced us with on 3/18/2022 2:25 PM:
> "Sailfish" <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote
>
> Win11's new desktop seems to be an admission of
> | their mistake but even there the skimpy rounded corners and lack of Aero
> | transparency is strange.
> |
> I see no point in either round corners or transparency. It's
> just an unnecessary load on graphics rendering. I always
> use classic display. But I haven't seen Win11. To me that's
> all frippery. As with cars, the only point is to make the last
> version look dated.
>
I completely understand those who prefer a minimalist approach, though
not my preference. I built a gaming rig so the load is minimal and, to
be honest, using it to its fullest capacity is just an added
justification for the cost of the graphics card.

Cheers

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Mayayana graced us with on 3/18/2022 7:22 PM:
> "VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote
>
> |
> | https://www.pcworld.com/article/512636/win7_taskbar_icons.html
> |
>
> Thanks. Silly me. I thought "Never combine" meant never
> combine. Now I see that I apparently wanted "Hide Labels". I
> hope I didn't ruin your day by talking about Win10 in a Win11
> thread in a Win7 group... Say... what are you doing talking
> about Win11 in a Win7 group, you rat? :)
>
heh

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Ken Blake graced us with on 3/18/2022 2:40 PM:
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 12:11:43 -0700, Sailfish
> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>
>> Ken Blake graced us with on 3/16/2022 9:46 AM:
>>> On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 08:28:22 -0700, Sailfish
>>> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>>>
<snip/>
>
> Directory Opus can be a launch pad for *many* programs of your choice.
>
I've tried many launchpad programs but the one I've settled on is
PowerPro. It's a bit on the arcane side but its functionality is so
robust that it's worth the effort to explore all of its features. Not
for the faint of heart, though.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Paul graced us with on 3/18/2022 7:47 PM:
> On 3/18/2022 3:11 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> Ken Blake graced us with on 3/16/2022 9:46 AM:
>>> On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 08:28:22 -0700, Sailfish
>>> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> REF:
>>>> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-is-testing-ads-in-the-windows-11-file-explorer/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>>> As you can imagine, the reaction to this was adverse, to say the
>>>> least, with some saying that File Explorer is "one of the worst
>>>> places to show ads," while others added that this is the way to go
>>>> if Microsoft wants "people ditching Explorer for something else."
>>>
>>>> Having to get nagged for wanting to view my filelist? Seriously!?
>>>> It's features like this that make Win7 holdouts like myself to dig
>>>> in even deeper resisting upgrading.
>>
>> Still, as Paul mentioned, Microsoft attempting to monetize even
>> base-level pieces of the OS seems more like a company in financial
>> trouble than a multinational company secure in its ability to produce
>> newer features to offer its base.
>>
>
> https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MSFT/microsoft/number-of-employees
>
> Interactive chart of Microsoft (MSFT) annual worldwide employee count
> from 2010 to 2021.
>
> Microsoft total number of employees in 2021 was 181,000, a 11.04%
> increase from 2020.
> Microsoft total number of employees in 2020 was 163,000, a 13.19%
> increase from 2019.
> Microsoft total number of employees in 2019 was 144,000, a 9.92%
> increase from 2018.
> Microsoft total number of employees in 2018 was 131,000, a 5.65%
> increase from 2017.
>
> Hmmm.
>
> No danger signal there.
>
Agree. makes one wonder what the creative to functionary ratio is, though.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

VanguardLH graced us with on 3/18/2022 2:43 PM:
> Mayayana wrote:
>
>> "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote
>>
>>> - turn OFF the idiotic merging of icons on the taskbar: a) so you get a
>>> separate icon for every running instance of the same program
>> Yes, yes, yes. How did you do that? The settings I see don't seem to
>> give me that option, even though I was able to do it in Win7.
>
> This is the Windows 7 newsgroup, and you say you already know how to do
> that in Windows 7.
>
> https://www.pcworld.com/article/512636/win7_taskbar_icons.html
>
>> I hate having 3 Firefox or Notepad open and then lokking at tiny
>> icon-views to see which is which.
>
> If you thought you were in a Windows 10 or 11 newsgroup, because
> Sailfish posted in the wrong newsgroup about a Windows 11 issue (and an
> issue in the Insider channel, not the release channel):
>
So it seems but if you read more into it, you'll notice it was
maneuvered to promote the wonderfulness of Win7.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 07:43:40 -0700, Sailfish
<NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:

>Ken Blake graced us with on 3/18/2022 2:40 PM:
>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 12:11:43 -0700, Sailfish
>> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ken Blake graced us with on 3/16/2022 9:46 AM:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 08:28:22 -0700, Sailfish
>>>> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>>>>
><snip/>
>>
>> Directory Opus can be a launch pad for *many* programs of your choice.
>>
>I've tried many launchpad programs but the one I've settled on is
>PowerPro. It's a bit on the arcane side but its functionality is so
>robust that it's worth the effort to explore all of its features. Not
>for the faint of heart, though.

I couldn't find it. Provide a link for it please, and I'll take a
look.

--
The real, original Ken Blake, not some other newcomer

Ken Blake graced us with on 3/19/2022 8:20 AM:
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 07:43:40 -0700, Sailfish
> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:

>>>
>> I've tried many launchpad programs but the one I've settled on is
>> PowerPro. It's a bit on the arcane side but its functionality is so
>> robust that it's worth the effort to explore all of its features. Not
>> for the faint of heart, though.
>
>
> I couldn't find it. Provide a link for it please, and I'll take a
> look.
>
Documentation Ref: projectit.com/Public/powerpro5.2Documentation.pdf
Wayback Ref:
https://web.archive.org/web/20210210222135/http://powerpro.cresadu.com/

It's been about a year since I last checked the site but it seems to
have gone to a discussion forum since then. The program itself was
freeware in every sense of the word. The above links are to both a
Documentation PDF and a Wayback link to its previous home page.

If the program seems interesting, I can post a link to my last
downloaded version (circa 2019)

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Sailfish graced us with on 3/19/2022 9:54 AM:
> Ken Blake graced us with on 3/19/2022 8:20 AM:
>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 07:43:40 -0700, Sailfish
>> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>> I've tried many launchpad programs but the one I've settled on is
>>> PowerPro. It's a bit on the arcane side but its functionality is so
>>> robust that it's worth the effort to explore all of its features. Not
>>> for the faint of heart, though.
>>
>>
>> I couldn't find it. Provide a link for it please, and I'll take a
>> look.
>>
> Documentation Ref: projectit.com/Public/powerpro5.2Documentation.pdf
> Wayback Ref:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20210210222135/http://powerpro.cresadu.com/
>
> It's been about a year since I last checked the site but it seems to
> have gone to a discussion forum since then. The program itself was
> freeware in every sense of the word. The above links are to both a
> Documentation PDF and a Wayback link to its previous home page.
>
> If the program seems interesting, I can post a link to my last
> downloaded version (circa 2019)
>
btw, last time I checked, it worked splendidly on Win10, as well.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Sailfish graced us with on 3/19/2022 9:54 AM:
> Ken Blake graced us with on 3/19/2022 8:20 AM:
>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 07:43:40 -0700, Sailfish
>> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>> I've tried many launchpad programs but the one I've settled on is
>>> PowerPro. It's a bit on the arcane side but its functionality is so
>>> robust that it's worth the effort to explore all of its features. Not
>>> for the faint of heart, though.
>>
>>
>> I couldn't find it. Provide a link for it please, and I'll take a
>> look.
>>
> Documentation Ref: projectit.com/Public/powerpro5.2Documentation.pdf
> Wayback Ref:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20210210222135/http://powerpro.cresadu.com/
>
> It's been about a year since I last checked the site but it seems to
> have gone to a discussion forum since then. The program itself was
> freeware in every sense of the word. The above links are to both a
> Documentation PDF and a Wayback link to its previous home page.
>
> If the program seems interesting, I can post a link to my last
> downloaded version (circa 2019)
>
Ref: https://powerpro.en.lo4d.com/windows

Here's a site that has the last version that I know of, in case you're
interested.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

On 18/03/2022 21:21, Mayayana wrote:
>
> I'm liking the idea of an Explroer replacement, though
> I haven't looked into it. The design is a disaster, what
> with the ribbon, the lack of an up button, etc.

Well I agree that the ribbon is just hopeless compared to a proper menu
for desktop users with a mouse, but you're wrong about the lack of the
'up' button. In W7+, perhaps Vista also but never having used Vista I
can't pronounce on it, that functionality is enhanced, not removed, in
that each directory name in the breadcrumb line in the address bar is
now a button to change to that parent directory, so now with one click
you can go to any parent directory, not just the one immediately above.

Note also that if you do <Alt-D>, you should get the original file path
back in the address line as in the File Explorer of earlier versions of
Windows, such as 2k. This means that you can copy it to use somewhere
else, etc.

What they have definitely broken in W7+, again perhaps also Vista etc,
is that <Alt-Left> and <Alt-right> should take you to the previous and
next directories in the history list, but this doesn't always work in
W7+, because it seems to depend on which part of the window has focus -
bloody maddening, that.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Java Jive graced us with on 3/19/2022 7:51 PM:
> On 18/03/2022 21:21, Mayayana wrote:
<snip/>>
> What they have definitely broken in W7+, again perhaps also Vista etc,
> is that <Alt-Left> and <Alt-right> should take you to the previous and
> next directories in the history list, but this doesn't always work in
> W7+, because it seems to depend on which part of the window has focus -
> bloody maddening, that.
>
The worst thing for me in Win7+ is the search feature. It is what drove
me to find other search programs eventually ending when I found Agent
Ransack. In a way, I am pleased that they broke search in that Agent
Ransack beats even WinXP search speed and feature wise.

YMMV

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

"Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote

| but you're wrong about the lack of the
| 'up' button.

Lucky for you that you don't work in customer service. I'm
not "wrong". I just want n up button because in most cases
that's where I'm going. I don't want the extra step of
parsing the folder path. That functionality is fine, but it's
different.

|
| Note also that if you do <Alt-D...

I'm not interested in 19th century tricks. I just want
an up button. :)

"Sailfish" <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote

| The worst thing for me in Win7+ is the search feature. It is what drove
| me to find other search programs eventually ending when I found Agent
| Ransack. In a way, I am pleased that they broke search in that Agent
| Ransack beats even WinXP search speed and feature wise.
|

I've also installed AR on all machines. It's like Firefox
and Irfan View -- on my list of basics. That also allows
me to turn off indexing, which seems wasteful to me.
In general I know where things are. I don't need "for dummies"
functionality like indexing or "asset management" to replace
Explorer for me.

On 20/03/2022 12:18, Mayayana wrote:
>
> "Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote
>>
>| but you're wrong about the lack of the
>| 'up' button.
>
> Lucky for you that you don't work in customer service. I'm
> not "wrong". I just want n up button because in most cases
> that's where I'm going. I don't want the extra step of
> parsing the folder path. That functionality is fine, but it's
> different.

You are wrong, because you do have an 'up' button.

> | Note also that if you do <Alt-D...
>
> I'm not interested in 19th century tricks. I just want
> an up button. :)

I think you should change your sig to: "I don't want to be helped,
really I don't!", that would remind everyone not to bother.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

(Sounds like I agree with the two of you in many cases.)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 at 08:36:48, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote
(my responses usually FOLLOW):
>On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 13:30:16 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>I've used every version of Windows from Windows 3 onwards (95, 98, ME, 2000,
>>XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10).
>
>
>You left out a few others since 3.0: 3.1, 3.11, WFWG 3.11, 3.2
>(Chinese), Windows 98 Second Edition, 8.1, 11, Windows NT 3.1, Windows
>NT 3.5, Windows NT 3.51, and Windows 4.0.

I think 98SE was the one I liked best at the time.
>
>I started with Windows 2.0, and have run every version since then
>(including 11) except for 3.2 and the NT versions. With an occasional
>exception, I thought every version was at least as good as its
>predecessor, and usually better.
>
I never actually owned them, but having played with them in shops and
helped others with them, I thought Vista and 8 were actually backward
steps. (In usability - basically, hardware requirement - for Vista, and
UI for 8.)
>
>> There have been some useful improvements along the way
>
>
>Yes. Many.
>
Hmm. Some. I guess "many" is probably correct for "under the hood"; I
can't say I've been _that_ aware of them at the use point of view; there
were some cases where they included things I'd needed third-party
freeware to do previously, granted. (Though almost - possibly completely
- countered by the things they changed how I had to do them to no
benefit _to me_.)
>
>>such as a better file manager post-98. There have also been some worsenings.
>
>
>Yes. Many. Fortunately, most of those can be turned off, either
>through Windows settings or third-party software.
>
Increasingly obscure over the decades, though: either buried more and
more within menus (I was amused - I think it was the transition from '95
to '98 - where the ability to change colours, border widths, etc.
disappeared behind an "Advanced" button; we oldsters could do it, but it
was "advanced" for new users!), or hidden as more and more obscure
settings in the damned registry. Why the registry has to use
impenetrable hex strings - I don't just mean for the keys, I mean for
the "folders" - rather than human-readable things, I don't understand,
other than laziness on the part of the coders (or deliberate obscuring).
[]
>Yes. But it was easy to go back to what was much like the old GUI
>using Start 8 or something similar.
>
Which many called "stardate" of course (-:
[]
>>I mostly use a Win 7 desktop PC, and I want to continue for as long as

Ditto except it's a laptop (though used with an external keyboard).
Though I'd probably have used my XP one a year or two longer if I hadn't
broken it.

>>possible, because I really can't face the hassle of untangling and upgrade
>>to Win 10, which may involve reinstalling programs for which I non longer
>>have CDs or licence keys readily to hand.
>
>
>I use a Windows 11 desktop PC, and I'm very happy with it.
>
I guess I'll end up using 10 or 11 eventually, but it will reflect a
much more move to just a software user than a computer user. (Which I'm
doing more - or similar things - in all walks of life as I get older.
[I'm not quite 62 - I know that's probably young for here!] It does feel
like "giving in" though.)
>
>>When I bought a new laptop last year, I knew it would be Win 10, and I was
>>resigned to a lot of hassle, but I've found that as long as you make a few
>>essential tweaks, it behaves enough like Win 7's UI not to be a shock to the
>>system.
>
>
>Yes.
>
Probably. Though I'm not sure I'll ever buy a brand-new machine again,
having been happy (for myself and others I've helped) with refurbished
ones. Not so much the saving of money - we probably have in fact lost
out in terms of bang per buck, especially if you consider remaining
lifetime - but less transition hassle.
>
>> My essential changes are:
>>
>>- install Classic Shell (absolutely essential)
>
>
>No, it's not absolutely essential. I don't like the new GUI, but some
>people do. And for those of us who don't like it (including me),
>Classic Shell is only one of several choice. As far as I'm concerned,
>it's a good choice, but Start 10 is even better.
>
I've heard that. I have Classic on this 7 machine*, but I don't know how
well it works on 10; for a friend who got a new (to her) 10 machine last
summer, I put on Open shell, having read here and in the 10 group that
it's later and therefore better (and that Classic might stop working
altogether after some 10 upgrade [though of course that'll apply to any
of them]), but I got the feeling it did a lot less (I think only the
start menu), and wished I'd put on Classic instead. Of course, Open may
do more if I'd had more time to play.
>
* Classic on here (7) gave me back a lot of XP (such as lines and
[+]/[-] boxes in Explorer), but I really have a much older interface -
probably more like '98 than anything: I have windows with square
corners, and same-size minimise/restore/close buttons (not a big red
close one) [except in Chrome which insists on having its own UI - not
even a title bar!]; I _do_ have graded-colour title bars which I
consider a gimmick (I think it came in - again - at 95/98); IIRR that
could be disabled (then - I don't know about now) by setting both ends
to the same colour, but knowing the coding was still doing the
transition made me not bother.

Actually, when I first got 7, I quite _liked_ Aero glass; I just turned
it off eventually because it stopped some other things working (I think
including windows settings, and TClockEx) either at all or properly.
>
>>- enable quick-launch bar and add commonly-used programs to it
>
>
>
>I never did. I preferred the new task bar which was sort of a
>combination task bar/quick launch bar.
>
I think you're referring to "pinning" things to the task bar. I use both
- I have a quick-launch bar because it has tiny icons, so I can get more
of them in, but I have a few things that I use a lot pinned - IIRR
(can't tell when they're actually open) IrfanView and Command Prompt,
possibly others. (And on-screen keyboard as I had a keyboard fault, but
since switching to external I've not had that for a while so maybe
should unpin it.)
>
>>- turn on file extensions and hidden files in File Explorer
>
>
>Yes. I completely agree with you there. I think Microsoft's defaults
>there are terrible, but they go back farther than Windows 10. But it's
>easy to fix.
>
I think it might go back to 9x, or even 3.x. It was sensible - or, at
least, understandable - when first introduced, as newcomers to computing
didn't need to see what files were (from I think 9x, the icon told them
anyway), but from the instant that malware started using double
extensions - such as .txt.exe - the _default_ should have been to show
them, and I think MS were bordering on criminal, or at least negligent,
in not changing it on all versions from then on.
[]
>>As long as Win 10 behaves reasonably similar to Win 7, I'm happy. The UI is
>>the important thing.
>
>
>
>To you, yes. To me, yes. But not to everyone.
>
To me, its _mostly_ the UI that matters, though I get cross when it
doesn't allow me to do things, or conceals them (the 'My' "Folders", for
example, or user access control [it's _my_ computer!]). Of course,
whether you consider those as part of the UI is arguable.
>
>> To use a car analogy, I don't doubt that there will
>>have been various improvements to the "engine", but what's the use of a car
>>with a more powerful, more efficient engine if you have to get used to the
>>order of the pedals being different, the seats facing sideways, the gauges
>>on the ceiling etc.

(-:
>>
>>I can now switch between my Win 7 desktop and my Win 10 laptop without
>>having to go through a stage of cognitive dissonance (a Dilbert phrase)
>>every time I move from one to the other. Muscle memory and "it should be in
>>the same place so I can do it by feel rather than by looking every time" are
>>important.

Definitely!
>>
>>Oh, and I wouldn't touch the built-in Mail app of Win 10 with a bargepole.
>
>
>Same for me.
>
Didn't 7 initially not come with _any_ mail client (I hate the "word"
app!), and you had to fetch one (though MS told you where to get
"Mail")?
>
>>In the absence of Windows Live Mail of Win 7,
>
>
>You can still use it in 10.
>
>
>> I use Thunderbird which is not
>>as good:
>
>
>Not as good to you. Better to me.
>
Ditto. Though I use some weird old client, I generally put anyone I'm
setting up on TB - it may not be the best, but (a) it's pretty widely
known so they should find help without too much difficulty [e. g. most
ISPs etc. have a page telling you how to set TB up on them], and (b)
it's fairly _conventional_ (i. e. like many other email clients).
>
>>I find that a lot of news postings that are visible in WLM don't
>>show up in TB ever or else only after a long delay. It's a shame that MS

On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 02:51:38 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

>On 18/03/2022 21:21, Mayayana wrote:
>>
>> I'm liking the idea of an Explroer replacement, though
>> I haven't looked into it. The design is a disaster, what
>> with the ribbon, the lack of an up button, etc.
>
>Well I agree that the ribbon is just hopeless compared to a proper menu
>for desktop users with a mouse,

I don't agree. Like you, I dislike the ribbon, but to me, "just
hopeless" is way too strong a comment. And I also know several people
who actually prefer the ribbon.

--
The real, original Ken Blake, not some other newcomer