For some reason Thunderbird does not seem to want to thread either mail
nor news correctly. It groups messages into a thread together, but
doesn't do any sublevels.
(Which means it's about halfway to where it should be)

Switching the threading around doesn't do anything, as it keeps being
either threaded incorrectly or not threaded at all. The threading
settings in the Config Editor also did not seem to solve this issue.
Anyone got an idea what might be the issue here?

kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

> For some reason Thunderbird does not seem to want to thread either mail
> nor news correctly. It groups messages into a thread together, but
> doesn't do any sublevels.
> (Which means it's about halfway to where it should be)
>
> Switching the threading around doesn't do anything, as it keeps being
> either threaded incorrectly or not threaded at all. The threading
> settings in the Config Editor also did not seem to solve this issue.
> Anyone got an idea what might be the issue here?

Do the non-threaded articles have the References header? That is used
to thread articles by their Message-ID headers. If someone uses an
e-mail client, or Usenet access (like web-based forums using
NNTP-to-HTTP gateways), that end may not add the References header.
Clients add that header, not the server, to track threading.

I've hit auto-responders that don't add the References header. I've
seen replies by those using a web-based gateway to Usenet where the
forum software ignores or does not honor the References header, and
doesn't add one in a reply (that gets gatewayed back out to Usenet).
I've seen trolls that deliberately omit the References header in their
replies which forces a new thread for them.

Without the References header, there is no threading. Some clients try
to guess how to create conversational threading based on the Subject and
other headers, but those often fail. Lots of posters just saying
"Hello" are going to get their unrelated posts threaded together.

In addition, while the References header can be line-wrapped to avoid
the 998-character physical line limit, a client can only buffer so many
MIDs in a header. When the max number of MIDs are hit in a client, it
will truncate the list. The first MID (top-level parent) is kept, and
the last N MIDs kept, but MIDs between are lost. Some trolls will
deliberately use extremely excessively long MIDs trying to force
truncation of the References header. The MID header cannot be line
wrapped, so it has the 998-character limit. Trolls may try to use all
of that space to create garbage MID values trying to deliberately exceed
what clients can handle for the References buffer they manage. The
effect is after a couple replies the References header starts getting
truncated, and threading is lost.

Look at the messages. Do they each have a References header? If so,
are all the MIDs for parent articles included in the References header?

On 3/21/2024 11:32 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For some reason Thunderbird does not seem to want to thread either mail
>> nor news correctly. It groups messages into a thread together, but
>> doesn't do any sublevels.
>> (Which means it's about halfway to where it should be)
>>
>> Switching the threading around doesn't do anything, as it keeps being
>> either threaded incorrectly or not threaded at all. The threading
>> settings in the Config Editor also did not seem to solve this issue.
>> Anyone got an idea what might be the issue here?
>
> Do the non-threaded articles have the References header? That is used
> to thread articles by their Message-ID headers. If someone uses an
> e-mail client, or Usenet access (like web-based forums using
> NNTP-to-HTTP gateways), that end may not add the References header.
> Clients add that header, not the server, to track threading.
>
> I've hit auto-responders that don't add the References header. I've
> seen replies by those using a web-based gateway to Usenet where the
> forum software ignores or does not honor the References header, and
> doesn't add one in a reply (that gets gatewayed back out to Usenet).
> I've seen trolls that deliberately omit the References header in their
> replies which forces a new thread for them.
>
> Without the References header, there is no threading. Some clients try
> to guess how to create conversational threading based on the Subject and
> other headers, but those often fail. Lots of posters just saying
> "Hello" are going to get their unrelated posts threaded together.
>
> In addition, while the References header can be line-wrapped to avoid
> the 998-character physical line limit, a client can only buffer so many
> MIDs in a header. When the max number of MIDs are hit in a client, it
> will truncate the list. The first MID (top-level parent) is kept, and
> the last N MIDs kept, but MIDs between are lost. Some trolls will
> deliberately use extremely excessively long MIDs trying to force
> truncation of the References header. The MID header cannot be line
> wrapped, so it has the 998-character limit. Trolls may try to use all
> of that space to create garbage MID values trying to deliberately exceed
> what clients can handle for the References buffer they manage. The
> effect is after a couple replies the References header starts getting
> truncated, and threading is lost.
>
> Look at the messages. Do they each have a References header? If so,
> are all the MIDs for parent articles included in the References header?

Ok, this was an issue with the View, I was in Cards view instead of
Table view. With Table View everything is threading properly.

kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ok, this was an issue with the View, I was in Cards view instead of
> Table view. With Table View everything is threading properly.

Which, to me, seems inane. Cards view sounds like something for
contacts, not for messages. Almost as if the devs couldn't figure out a
better name, like Thread View versus Non-Threaded view (which would be
just one setting or button to toggle the view).

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/getting-started-thunderbird-main-window-supernova#w_vertical-view-layout-with-card-view

Who wants Card View? That sucks. Only newbies weaned on web browser
that visit web-based forums where a discussion is flat would be
accumstomed to a view that doesn't clue who said what to whom. Maybe
they're trying to dumb-down the UI for if and whenever they get around
to getting their K9 acquisition to add support for NNTP. Yeah, dumb
down the UI to the lowest common denominator: toy computers with tiny
screens.

And Card View is now the default? Guess they're not interested in
catering to their users using Thunderbird on non-mobile platforms. K9
is not usable for NNTP on Android. It just does e-mail, but I suppose
it could also have a similar Card View to accomodate the tiny screens.

Doesn't Tbird also have a Conversation mode to group messages (in a
clumsy threading)? Too often e-mail clients will tout Conversation mode
as a means of grouping messages even across different folders (instead
of providing a "Save reply with original" option to override a "Save
reply in Sent" option). Maybe the Tbird devs think their users will
enable both Card View and Conversation.

On 3/22/2024 8:00 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ok, this was an issue with the View, I was in Cards view instead of
>> Table view. With Table View everything is threading properly.
>
> Which, to me, seems inane. Cards view sounds like something for
> contacts, not for messages. Almost as if the devs couldn't figure out a
> better name, like Thread View versus Non-Threaded view (which would be
> just one setting or button to toggle the view).
>
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/getting-started-thunderbird-main-window-supernova#w_vertical-view-layout-with-card-view
>
> Who wants Card View? That sucks. Only newbies weaned on web browser
> that visit web-based forums where a discussion is flat would be
> accumstomed to a view that doesn't clue who said what to whom. Maybe
> they're trying to dumb-down the UI for if and whenever they get around
> to getting their K9 acquisition to add support for NNTP. Yeah, dumb
> down the UI to the lowest common denominator: toy computers with tiny
> screens.
>
> And Card View is now the default? Guess they're not interested in
> catering to their users using Thunderbird on non-mobile platforms. K9
> is not usable for NNTP on Android. It just does e-mail, but I suppose
> it could also have a similar Card View to accomodate the tiny screens.
>
> Doesn't Tbird also have a Conversation mode to group messages (in a
> clumsy threading)? Too often e-mail clients will tout Conversation mode
> as a means of grouping messages even across different folders (instead
> of providing a "Save reply with original" option to override a "Save
> reply in Sent" option). Maybe the Tbird devs think their users will
> enable both Card View and Conversation.
>

Another reason not to update my old Thunderbird/52.9.1.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Demonstrators worldwide are demanding that Israel stop
fighting in Gaza. Why does it seem that no one is demanding
that Hamas stop fighting? And where are the demonstrations
against Russia fighting in the Ukraine.

On 2024-03-22 16:32, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 3/22/2024 8:00 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, this was an issue with the View, I was in Cards view instead of
>>> Table view. With Table View everything is threading properly.
>>
>> Which, to me, seems inane. Cards view sounds like something for
>> contacts, not for messages. Almost as if the devs couldn't figure out a
>> better name, like Thread View versus Non-Threaded view (which would be
>> just one setting or button to toggle the view).
>>
>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/getting-started-thunderbird-main-window-supernova#w_vertical-view-layout-with-card-view
>>
>> Who wants Card View? That sucks. Only newbies weaned on web browser
>> that visit web-based forums where a discussion is flat would be
>> accumstomed to a view that doesn't clue who said what to whom. Maybe
>> they're trying to dumb-down the UI for if and whenever they get around
>> to getting their K9 acquisition to add support for NNTP. Yeah, dumb
>> down the UI to the lowest common denominator: toy computers with tiny
>> screens.
>>
>> And Card View is now the default? Guess they're not interested in
>> catering to their users using Thunderbird on non-mobile platforms. K9
>> is not usable for NNTP on Android. It just does e-mail, but I suppose
>> it could also have a similar Card View to accomodate the tiny screens.
>>
>> Doesn't Tbird also have a Conversation mode to group messages (in a
>> clumsy threading)? Too often e-mail clients will tout Conversation mode
>> as a means of grouping messages even across different folders (instead
>> of providing a "Save reply with original" option to override a "Save
>> reply in Sent" option). Maybe the Tbird devs think their users will
>> enable both Card View and Conversation.
>>
>
> Another reason not to update my old Thunderbird/52.9.1.

You do not have to use card view.

>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 22.03.24 16:32, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 3/22/2024 8:00 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, this was an issue with the View, I was in Cards view instead of
>>> Table view. With Table View everything is threading properly.
>>
>> Which, to me, seems inane. Cards view sounds like something for
>> contacts, not for messages. Almost as if the devs couldn't figure out a
>> better name, like Thread View versus Non-Threaded view (which would be
>> just one setting or button to toggle the view).
>>
>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/getting-started-thunderbird-main-window-supernova#w_vertical-view-layout-with-card-view
>>
>> Who wants Card View? That sucks. Only newbies weaned on web browser
>> that visit web-based forums where a discussion is flat would be
>> accumstomed to a view that doesn't clue who said what to whom. Maybe
>> they're trying to dumb-down the UI for if and whenever they get around
>> to getting their K9 acquisition to add support for NNTP. Yeah, dumb
>> down the UI to the lowest common denominator: toy computers with tiny
>> screens.
>>
>> And Card View is now the default? Guess they're not interested in
>> catering to their users using Thunderbird on non-mobile platforms. K9
>> is not usable for NNTP on Android. It just does e-mail, but I suppose
>> it could also have a similar Card View to accomodate the tiny screens.
>>
>> Doesn't Tbird also have a Conversation mode to group messages (in a
>> clumsy threading)? Too often e-mail clients will tout Conversation mode
>> as a means of grouping messages even across different folders (instead
>> of providing a "Save reply with original" option to override a "Save
>> reply in Sent" option). Maybe the Tbird devs think their users will
>> enable both Card View and Conversation.
>>
>
> Another reason not to update my old Thunderbird/52.9.1.

This is certainly no reason not to update!
You can easily switch from card view to classic view. In both cases
either threaded or not threaded.

--
"Alea icacta est." (Julius Caesar)