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devel / alt.html / Re: Reference some old posts with MID

SubjectAuthor
* Reference some old posts with MIDandrew
+* Re: Reference some old posts with MIDJukka K. Korpela
|+* Re: Reference some old posts with MIDLewis
||`* Re: Reference some old posts with MIDJukka K. Korpela
|| +* Re: Reference some old posts with MIDLewis
|| |`* Re: Reference some old posts with MIDJukka K. Korpela
|| | `- Re: Reference some old posts with MIDLewis
|| +- Re: Reference some old posts with MIDAllodoxaphobia
|| `- Re: Reference some old posts with MIDandrew
|`- Re: Reference some old posts with MIDandrew
`- Re: Reference some old posts with MIDJJ

1
Reference some old posts with MID

<20220104203648.622@skamandros.andrews-corner.org>

  copy mid

https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=352&group=alt.html#352

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.html
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.mixmin.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: andrew@skamandros.invalid (andrew)
Newsgroups: alt.html
Subject: Reference some old posts with MID
Date: 4 Jan 2022 09:40:51 GMT
Organization: slrn mafia
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <20220104203648.622@skamandros.andrews-corner.org>
X-Trace: individual.net rYnQRjDeMr1t0ezme7xnywwjcHi/DzQyVf+IagikITeAbZIWP2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:6fnEg9M2LUWV83nTehtXNXpSs/4=
X-NNTP-Proxy: slrnpull 1.0.3 (http://slrn.sourceforge.net)
User-Agent: slrn/pre1.0.4-6/co (Slackware -current)
 by: andrew - Tue, 4 Jan 2022 09:40 UTC

I am resurrecting an old page of mine that contains links to some quite
old alt.html posts. I reference these to Google Groups using a Google
hash, for example:

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.html/c/6SZN3x1BcOo/m/CRqVtWFwCzsJ

However I would like to use the original MID which does not seem
available on that link; the option 'Show original message' is greyed
out.

Any thoughts on how to capture the original MID on this and other
messages?

Andrew
--
You think that's air you're breathing now?

Re: Reference some old posts with MID

<sr1d7c$5pi$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=353&group=alt.html#353

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jukkakk@gmail.com (Jukka K. Korpela)
Newsgroups: alt.html
Subject: Re: Reference some old posts with MID
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:06:03 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <sr1d7c$5pi$1@dont-email.me>
References: <20220104203648.622@skamandros.andrews-corner.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 12:06:04 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="0c3cd6311336f082664ac7f8f01a7b66";
logging-data="5938"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18u8mgtU1+0Gqc0e4sbVPNa"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.4.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:wl+xVtS+uxnD3GDZdTzvvyDRB5g=
In-Reply-To: <20220104203648.622@skamandros.andrews-corner.org>
 by: Jukka K. Korpela - Tue, 4 Jan 2022 12:06 UTC

andrew wrote:

> I am resurrecting an old page of mine that contains links to some quite
> old alt.html posts. I reference these to Google Groups using a Google
> hash, for example:
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.html/c/6SZN3x1BcOo/m/CRqVtWFwCzsJ
>
> However I would like to use the original MID which does not seem
> available on that link; the option 'Show original message' is greyed
> out.
>
> Any thoughts on how to capture the original MID on this and other
> messages?

It seems that Google decided to hide the original message for some
reason. If you mouse over the greyed-out “Show original message”, you
see some explanation of privacy of e-mail addresses. If hiding addresses
is Google’s purpose, it’s natural to prevent seeing the raw message.

On the other hand, what would you do with the Message-ID? It was meant
to be a unique global identifier for a message, and in ancient times, it
was possible (to some extent) to search messages by Message-ID. But
hardly these days. And Message-ID was not meant to be informative in any
way, just a random identifier.

Re: Reference some old posts with MID

<13ct2udbbd86x.kkqkldgc3o41.dlg@40tude.net>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=354&group=alt.html#354

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.html
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!hguIa9TnryNnV8d2snYOIg.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jj4public@gmail.com (JJ)
Newsgroups: alt.html
Subject: Re: Reference some old posts with MID
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 19:16:35 +0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <13ct2udbbd86x.kkqkldgc3o41.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <20220104203648.622@skamandros.andrews-corner.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="44023"; posting-host="hguIa9TnryNnV8d2snYOIg.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.84
X-Face: \*\`0(1j~VfYC>ebz[&O.]=,Nm\oRM{of,liRO#7Eqi4|!]!(Gs=Akgh{J)605>C9Air?pa d{sSZ09u+A7f<^paR"/NH_#<mE1S"hde\c6PZLUB[t/s5-+Iu5DSc?P0+4%,Hl
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
X-Bitcoin: 1LcqwCQBQmhcWfWsVEAeyLchkAY8ZfuMnS
 by: JJ - Tue, 4 Jan 2022 12:16 UTC

On 4 Jan 2022 09:40:51 GMT, andrew wrote:
> I am resurrecting an old page of mine that contains links to some quite
> old alt.html posts. I reference these to Google Groups using a Google
> hash, for example:
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.html/c/6SZN3x1BcOo/m/CRqVtWFwCzsJ
>
> However I would like to use the original MID which does not seem
> available on that link; the option 'Show original message' is greyed
> out.
>
> Any thoughts on how to capture the original MID on this and other
> messages?
>
> Andrew

I'd suggest finding the message from commercial usenet providers which have
free trials. Those that provide a usenet search engine would make things
easier.

Re: Reference some old posts with MID

<slrnst9g81.1udt.g.kreme@zephyrus.local>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!kreme.dont-email.me!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me (Lewis)
Newsgroups: alt.html
Subject: Re: Reference some old posts with MID
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 21:49:53 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Miskatonic U
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <slrnst9g81.1udt.g.kreme@zephyrus.local>
References: <20220104203648.622@skamandros.andrews-corner.org>
<sr1d7c$5pi$1@dont-email.me>
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X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett
Mail-Copies-To: nobody
 by: Lewis - Tue, 4 Jan 2022 21:49 UTC

In message <sr1d7c$5pi$1@dont-email.me> Jukka K. Korpela <jukkakk@gmail.com> wrote:
> ancient times, it was possible (to some extent) to search messages by
> Message-ID. But hardly these days. And Message-ID was not meant to be
> informative in any way, just a random identifier.

It is quite simple and very much possible to search by message-id, even
in 2022.

--
'You make us want what we can't have and what you give us is worth
nothing and what you take is everything and all there is left for
us is the cold hillside, and emptiness, and the laughter of the
elves.'

Re: Reference some old posts with MID

<sr2i9g$gup$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=358&group=alt.html#358

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jukkakk@gmail.com (Jukka K. Korpela)
Newsgroups: alt.html
Subject: Re: Reference some old posts with MID
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 00:38:39 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <sr2i9g$gup$1@dont-email.me>
References: <20220104203648.622@skamandros.andrews-corner.org>
<sr1d7c$5pi$1@dont-email.me> <slrnst9g81.1udt.g.kreme@zephyrus.local>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 22:38:40 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="0c3cd6311336f082664ac7f8f01a7b66";
logging-data="17369"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19anwEIXOGx4eRan7ugAUDx"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.4.1
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In-Reply-To: <slrnst9g81.1udt.g.kreme@zephyrus.local>
 by: Jukka K. Korpela - Tue, 4 Jan 2022 22:38 UTC

Lewis wrote:

> It is quite simple and very much possible to search by message-id, even
> in 2022.

This would be much more convincing if you provided at least one (1) way
to do that. A URL, or an operational instruction. I am not holding my
breathe.

Re: Reference some old posts with MID

<20220105124413.917@skamandros.andrews-corner.org>

  copy mid

https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=359&group=alt.html#359

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.mixmin.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: andrew@skamandros.invalid (andrew)
Newsgroups: alt.html
Subject: Re: Reference some old posts with MID
Date: 5 Jan 2022 01:47:31 GMT
Organization: slrn mafia
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <20220105124413.917@skamandros.andrews-corner.org>
References: <20220104203648.622@skamandros.andrews-corner.org>
<sr1d7c$5pi$1@dont-email.me>
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X-NNTP-Proxy: slrnpull 1.0.3 (http://slrn.sourceforge.net)
User-Agent: slrn/pre1.0.4-6/co (Slackware -current)
 by: andrew - Wed, 5 Jan 2022 01:47 UTC

On 2022-01-04, Jukka K. Korpela <jukkakk@gmail.com> wrote:

> On the other hand, what would you do with the Message-ID? It was meant
> to be a unique global identifier for a message, and in ancient times, it
> was possible (to some extent) to search messages by Message-ID. But
> hardly these days. And Message-ID was not meant to be informative in
> any way, just a random identifier.

I had not realised that the MID was less useful in modern times. Times
have changed and I guess I did not notice...

And in passing: thanks for teaching me about HTML and comunication in
the old days in this and other newsgroups :)

Andrew
--
You think that's air you're breathing now?

Re: Reference some old posts with MID

<slrnstabsd.278l.g.kreme@zephyrus.local>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=360&group=alt.html#360

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!kreme.dont-email.me!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me (Lewis)
Newsgroups: alt.html
Subject: Re: Reference some old posts with MID
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 05:41:33 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Miskatonic U
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <slrnstabsd.278l.g.kreme@zephyrus.local>
References: <20220104203648.622@skamandros.andrews-corner.org>
<sr1d7c$5pi$1@dont-email.me> <slrnst9g81.1udt.g.kreme@zephyrus.local>
<sr2i9g$gup$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: g.kreme@gmail.don-t-email-me.com
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Injection-Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 05:41:33 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: kreme.dont-email.me; posting-host="1e6bdc523358381546db698c83143dad";
logging-data="11237"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/pumS52XDvNjlj4UzjrBfL"
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X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett
 by: Lewis - Wed, 5 Jan 2022 05:41 UTC

In message <sr2i9g$gup$1@dont-email.me> Jukka K. Korpela <jukkakk@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lewis wrote:

>> It is quite simple and very much possible to search by message-id, even
>> in 2022.

> This would be much more convincing if you provided at least one (1) way
> to do that. A URL, or an operational instruction. I am not holding my
> breathe.

Learn.

<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5538#section-2.2>
The 'news' URI scheme identifies articles by their worldwide unique
"Message-ID", independent of the server and the newsgroup.

--
I find Windows of absolutely no technical interest… Mac OS X is a
rock-solid system that's beautifully designed. I much prefer it
to Linux. -- Bill Joy

Re: Reference some old posts with MID

<sr3kj9$6su$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.rocksolidbbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=361&group=alt.html#361

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jukkakk@gmail.com (Jukka K. Korpela)
Newsgroups: alt.html
Subject: Re: Reference some old posts with MID
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 10:24:08 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <sr3kj9$6su$1@dont-email.me>
References: <20220104203648.622@skamandros.andrews-corner.org>
<sr1d7c$5pi$1@dont-email.me> <slrnst9g81.1udt.g.kreme@zephyrus.local>
<sr2i9g$gup$1@dont-email.me> <slrnstabsd.278l.g.kreme@zephyrus.local>
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logging-data="7070"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+8/rDW8pf/Mk/6uBGkG9eu"
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In-Reply-To: <slrnstabsd.278l.g.kreme@zephyrus.local>
 by: Jukka K. Korpela - Wed, 5 Jan 2022 08:24 UTC

Lewis wrote:

> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5538#section-2.2>
> The 'news' URI scheme identifies articles by their worldwide unique
> "Message-ID", independent of the server and the newsgroup.

That’s a proposed standard from 2010. Can you provide information on any
software that actually implements it and is in use today?

Re: Reference some old posts with MID

<slrnstbafh.1b7s.trepidation@vps.jonz.net>

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From: trepidation@example.net (Allodoxaphobia)
Newsgroups: alt.html
Subject: Re: Reference some old posts with MID
Date: 5 Jan 2022 14:23:45 GMT
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 by: Allodoxaphobia - Wed, 5 Jan 2022 14:23 UTC

On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 00:38:39 +0200, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> Lewis wrote:
>
>> It is quite simple and very much possible to search by message-id, even
>> in 2022.
>
> This would be much more convincing if you provided at least one (1) way
> to do that. A URL, or an operational instruction. I am not holding my
> breathe.

There is this: http://al.howardknight.net/

But, dunno how totally complete the coverage is (e.g. by age).

Jonesy
--
Marvin L Jones | Marvin | W3DHJ.net | linux
38.238N 104.547W | @ jonz.net | Jonesy | FreeBSD
* Killfiling google & XXXXbanter.com: jonz.net/ng.htm

Re: Reference some old posts with MID

<slrnstc5oq.2mlh.g.kreme@zephyrus.local>

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From: g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me (Lewis)
Newsgroups: alt.html
Subject: Re: Reference some old posts with MID
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 22:09:30 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Miskatonic U
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Message-ID: <slrnstc5oq.2mlh.g.kreme@zephyrus.local>
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X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett
 by: Lewis - Wed, 5 Jan 2022 22:09 UTC

In message <sr3kj9$6su$1@dont-email.me> Jukka K. Korpela <jukkakk@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lewis wrote:

>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5538#section-2.2>
>> The 'news' URI scheme identifies articles by their worldwide unique
>> "Message-ID", independent of the server and the newsgroup.

> That’s a proposed standard from 2010.

Oops, your ignorance is showing.

--
Yeah, and I never wanted to kick Albert Einstein in the nuts.

Re: Reference some old posts with MID

<20220107152346.677@skamandros.andrews-corner.org>

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From: andrew@skamandros.invalid (andrew)
Newsgroups: alt.html
Subject: Re: Reference some old posts with MID
Date: 7 Jan 2022 04:36:53 GMT
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X-Trace: individual.net 2gqvb16eJ/S0okkJTdrwQAfgTg+ft+1bJmpNMD4+1pkZhhrT37
Cancel-Lock: sha1:lzfAdOA/J+aP9R6hOeBRvjhJ944=
X-NNTP-Proxy: slrnpull 1.0.3 (http://slrn.sourceforge.net)
User-Agent: slrn/pre1.0.4-6/co (Slackware -current)
 by: andrew - Fri, 7 Jan 2022 04:36 UTC

On 2022-01-04, Jukka K. Korpela <jukkakk@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lewis wrote:
>
>> It is quite simple and very much possible to search by message-id, even
>> in 2022.
>
> This would be much more convincing if you provided at least one (1) way
> to do that. A URL, or an operational instruction. I am not holding my
> breathe.

In the more glorious days of Usenet I used to maintain a reasonably
big Usenet spool on my drive by using the caching NNTP server Leafnode
2. From dim memory this had the facility to be searched directly by MID.

However I use a smaller and much more basic spool these days (slrnpull)
and it has been many, many years since I have used MID search with
Leafnode.

Always sad to see good things wither and die...

Andrew
--
You think that's air you're breathing now?

1
server_pubkey.txt

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