What *I* want my web navigators to do when a given web page causes a
crash is

- under no circumstances automatically reload it on the next start
or via history

- blacklist it making it acessible again only via a two-step demand

bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote:

> What *I* want my web navigators to do when a given web page causes a
> crash is
>
> - under no circumstances automatically reload it on the next start
> or via history

Disable session restore in Firefox.

https://www.google.com/search?q=firefox+disable+session+restore

> - blacklist it making it acessible again only via a two-step demand

You visit a site, it crashed the web browser, and you cannot resist from
entering/pasting the URL into the addressbar or using the bookmark
again?

If using a bookmark, just delete it to prevent you accidentally using it
again.

Manually entering a URL takes a lot of keystrokes, so you have plenty of
opportunity NOT to enter the URL.

If you cannot resist clicking on a hyperlink to the site, like in an
e-mail or on another web page, you can block the site by using the hosts
file (point the IP address for the site to 0.0.0.0), or by using a
firewall rule, or by adding a block of the domain in an adblock add-on.

Some firewalls will let you block outbound connections by IP address or
domain. Some AVs has a URL blocking feature, too. A redirect in the
hosts file specifies the destination (use 0.0.0.0 although 127.0.0.1 is
common but could point to a local proxy, and the reject takes longer
than using the 0.0.0.0 broadcast address) followed by the domain name.
Not a hostname (www.domain.tld), just the domain name (domain.tld). If
you enter the IP address of the site, or click on a hyperlink that
specifies the IP address, the hosts file is not used since it is a local
lookup on domain and target IP.

bad sector,

> What *I* want my web navigators to do when a given web page causes
> a crash is
>
> - under no circumstances automatically reload it on the next start
> or via history

I've had a page crash once or twice too. I've not found a "start FF
normally after abnormal termination" setting, but when I got stuck I found
that deleting a few files with "session" in their name (IIRC
"sessionCheckpoints.json" and the contents of the "sessionstore-backups"
folder) seemed to work.

You could write a script to remove them before starting FF, and replace your
current FF shortcut with it. (IOW, deleting those files every time you
start FF)

> - blacklist it making it acessible again only via a two-step demand

My version of FF doesn't have such a blacklisting capability (and I've not
heard of any version that does). But, you could do worse than searching for
an add-on which can do it.

I'm using the GreaseMonkey add-on myself, but that one needs lots of work
(you have to write the de-grease JS scripts yourself) and it (ofcourse) only
works for in-page links.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On 4/26/24 18:47, VanguardLH wrote:
> bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote:
>
>> What *I* want my web navigators to do when a given web page causes a
>> crash is
>>
>> - under no circumstances automatically reload it on the next start
>> or via history
>
> Disable session restore in Firefox.
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=firefox+disable+session+restore

Thanks, I've done this before but keep coming up against the same
problem after a while.

Basically I don't want any web navigator to load any page EVER that I
did not specifically ask for that time in that session either by direct
URL entry, or via a bookmark that I have created or via a link on a page
that I have loaded that time in that session. This includes all web
navigators but especially mozilla because I've had more crashes with
them in the last couple of years than with all other programs over the
last 30 for all reasons combined! There must be something in their
programming that is incompatible with my way of doing things. I now have
9 web navigators on the section of my panels set aside for internet
showing an extremely unstable relationship with them, most just don't
work in some cases but FF often FF crashes right on first launch so I'm
starting to not even try it anymore. *No other prog does this* so it's
not a hardware issue.

>> - blacklist it making it acessible again only via a two-step demand
>
> You visit a site, it crashed the web browser, and you cannot resist from
> entering/pasting the URL into the addressbar or using the bookmark
> again?

The problem is tha FF tries to restore without me asking to reload it
something that has already crashed once! This might be fixed now with
the intervention you suggestyed byut I;'m afrain it won't last, it
certainly isn't default. I cannot imagine a more stupid approach. What's
needed is a punitive tool that blacklists such sites AND lets them know
with an automantic message to info@there: "instead of delivering the
requested page without isues and fully respection what I have set in
preferences YOUR programming has crashed my web navigator for which your
site is now and will remain blacklisted".

> If using a bookmark, just delete it to prevent you accidentally using it
> again.
>
> Manually entering a URL takes a lot of keystrokes, so you have plenty of
> opportunity NOT to enter the URL.
>
> If you cannot resist clicking on a hyperlink to the site, like in an
> e-mail or on another web page,

I virtually never do this. The problem is twofold: FF just crashing far
too often sometimnes on first launch, and, when it crashes while trying
to load a site then it next tries to reload that same site. This last
feature should be disabled by default, those users who want to hop
around on the leg that someone has just shot out from under them should
be the ones having to ask for it in preferences.

On 4/27/24 04:32, R.Wieser wrote:
> bad sector,
>
>> What *I* want my web navigators to do when a given web page causes
>> a crash is
>>
>> - under no circumstances automatically reload it on the next start
>> or via history
>
> I've had a page crash once or twice too. I've not found a "start FF
> normally after abnormal termination" setting, but when I got stuck I found
> that deleting a few files with "session" in their name (IIRC
> "sessionCheckpoints.json" and the contents of the "sessionstore-backups"
> folder) seemed to work.

I condsider my self an average user, the only intervention I should need
is setting preferences and THERE, I think should definitely be an item
"after crashed page: reload/forget". But there ARE settings that do
exist but are far too volatile, like asking where to save files or
freakin' passwords. I find myself continuously resetting these to "ask
where to save file" and "Never save passwords" but the popups keep
returning, like the one continuously plugging translation (puke!).

> You could write a script to remove them before starting FF, and replace your
> current FF shortcut with it. (IOW, deleting those files every time you
> start FF)
>
>> - blacklist it making it acessible again only via a two-step demand
>
> My version of FF doesn't have such a blacklisting capability (and I've not
> heard of any version that does). But, you could do worse than searching for
> an add-on which can do it.

I try not to use any add-ons at all, every one of them is either a
security or a functionality risk.

bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote:

> The problem is tha FF tries to restore without me asking to reload it
> something that has already crashed once! This might be fixed now with
> the intervention you suggestyed byut I;'m afrain it won't last, it
> certainly isn't default.

I've had session restore disabled since whenever the feature got
introduced. I got nailed once, and had to figure out to start Firefox
in its safe mode to prevent reloading a site that was crashing Firefox
(don't remember if FF crashed, or more likely got stuck in an infinite
script loop). Some sites get hacked, and the malicious author will
deliberately make web clients hang by waiting for an exit from a loop
that never happens.

For me, session restore once disabled has never gotten reenabled
mysteriously, or through the various updates. Since it is an
about:confg setting, it is possible an update would reset the setting,
or a new version of Firefox ignores the setting because it is no longer
used or something replaced session restore. It also possible for
add-ons to change the setting. While some limitations are enforced
against such untoward behavior by add-ons, the add-ons must be able to
change settings, especially their own.

> What's needed is a punitive tool that blacklists such sites AND lets
> them know with an automantic message to info@there: "instead of
> delivering the requested page without isues and fully respection what
> I have set in preferences YOUR programming has crashed my web
> navigator for which your site is now and will remain blacklisted".

You would have to find the postmaster or sysadmin for a web site to
report the issue. There is no header you can send them from your client
to report "your site is fucked". Also, if their traffic volume went
down severely, they'd look into it. Likely you are one of very few that
encounter the crash/hang problem at their site.

Remember if you use any adblocker that their aim is to corrupt a web
doc. They block resources the web doc expects. They don't substitute
those resources. If, for example, the web doc expects to load a script
library to be called by scripts in the web doc, but the adblocker blocks
access to the library, the scripts in the web doc are still going to
execute as though the lib were available. Adblockers break web pages,
not alter them. You would have to use something like Greasemonkey that
alters the web doc before it got rendered, but then you'd need to know
some decent HTML and script programming to do that.

I use the uBlock Origin add-on. The blocking of expected resources can
break a web doc to cause unexpected or unwanted behavior. You either
then decide not to visit there again, or you tweak the adblock for that
site to allow enough of what got blocked to get the site working again.
uBO has its expert mode that lets you tailor what gets blocked by
default (the subscribed blacklists) along with exceptions you want for a
particular site. Can take a bit of trial and error to find the minimal
unblocks to get a site working without allowing all the unwanted
content. Rather than smashing with a sledge hammer, you back off to
reduce the weight of the sledge to something that keeps the site usable,
or you go find the information elsewhere. No such thing as a perfect
adblocker.

> The problem is twofold: FF just crashing far too often sometimnes on
> first launch, and, when it crashes while trying to load a site then
> it next tries to reload that same site. This last feature should be
> disabled by default, those users who want to hop around on the leg
> that someone has just shot out from under them should be the ones
> having to ask for it in preferences.

Did you ever disable all the add-ons you installed in Firefox, clean all
history (i.e., purge all locally cached data), exit Firefox, reload
Firefox, and revisit the problematic site?

Have you refreshed Firefox which creates a new profile devoid of all
add-ons and any tweaks you've made (i.e., you get a fresh profile), and
then revisit the problematic site? It is quite possible over time to do
so much tweaking in Firefox that it becomes unstable, unreliable, or
vulnerable to badly coded sites or those that have been hacked.

On 4/27/24 15:15, VanguardLH wrote:
> bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote:
>
>> The problem is tha FF tries to restore without me asking to reload it
>> something that has already crashed once! This might be fixed now with
>> the intervention you suggestyed byut I;'m afrain it won't last, it
>> certainly isn't default.
>
> I've had session restore disabled since whenever the feature got
> introduced. I got nailed once, and had to figure out to start Firefox
> in its safe mode to prevent reloading a site that was crashing Firefox
> (don't remember if FF crashed, or more likely got stuck in an infinite
> script loop). Some sites get hacked, and the malicious author will
> deliberately make web clients hang by waiting for an exit from a loop
> that never happens.
>
> For me, session restore once disabled has never gotten reenabled
> mysteriously, or through the various updates. Since it is an
> about:confg setting, it is possible an update would reset the setting,
> or a new version of Firefox ignores the setting because it is no longer
> used or something replaced session restore. It also possible for
> add-ons to change the setting. While some limitations are enforced
> against such untoward behavior by add-ons, the add-ons must be able to
> change settings, especially their own.
>
>> What's needed is a punitive tool that blacklists such sites AND lets
>> them know with an automantic message to info@there: "instead of
>> delivering the requested page without isues and fully respection what
>> I have set in preferences YOUR programming has crashed my web
>> navigator for which your site is now and will remain blacklisted".
>
> You would have to find the postmaster or sysadmin for a web site to
> report the issue. There is no header you can send them from your client
> to report "your site is fucked". Also, if their traffic volume went
> down severely, they'd look into it. Likely you are one of very few that
> encounter the crash/hang problem at their site.
>
> Remember if you use any adblocker that their aim is to corrupt a web
> doc. They block resources the web doc expects. They don't substitute
> those resources. If, for example, the web doc expects to load a script
> library to be called by scripts in the web doc, but the adblocker blocks
> access to the library, the scripts in the web doc are still going to
> execute as though the lib were available. Adblockers break web pages,
> not alter them. You would have to use something like Greasemonkey that
> alters the web doc before it got rendered, but then you'd need to know
> some decent HTML and script programming to do that.
>
> I use the uBlock Origin add-on. The blocking of expected resources can
> break a web doc to cause unexpected or unwanted behavior. You either
> then decide not to visit there again, or you tweak the adblock for that
> site to allow enough of what got blocked to get the site working again.
> uBO has its expert mode that lets you tailor what gets blocked by
> default (the subscribed blacklists) along with exceptions you want for a
> particular site. Can take a bit of trial and error to find the minimal
> unblocks to get a site working without allowing all the unwanted
> content. Rather than smashing with a sledge hammer, you back off to
> reduce the weight of the sledge to something that keeps the site usable,
> or you go find the information elsewhere. No such thing as a perfect
> adblocker.
>
>> The problem is twofold: FF just crashing far too often sometimnes on
>> first launch, and, when it crashes while trying to load a site then
>> it next tries to reload that same site. This last feature should be
>> disabled by default, those users who want to hop around on the leg
>> that someone has just shot out from under them should be the ones
>> having to ask for it in preferences.
>
> Did you ever disable all the add-ons you installed in Firefox, clean all
> history (i.e., purge all locally cached data), exit Firefox, reload
> Firefox, and revisit the problematic site?
>
> Have you refreshed Firefox which creates a new profile devoid of all
> add-ons and any tweaks you've made (i.e., you get a fresh profile), and
> then revisit the problematic site? It is quite possible over time to do
> so much tweaking in Firefox that it becomes unstable, unreliable, or
> vulnerable to badly coded sites or those that have been hacked.

I appreciate the effort you put into responding but with hundreds of
pages loaded every day, several for a first and only time (using many
different OSes) any workaround or fix on a site-by-site basis just isn't
practical. My html is rudimentary (as a matter of policy) but it seems
to me that as long as only available preferences are set and no exotic
intervention has taken place, it should be impossible for a site to
crash a navigator. FF has been my go2 favorite ever since Netscape but
it's getting to the point now that before launching it I ask myself "why
don't I just go with Falkon or LibreWolf"?

If it were up to me I'd put resources into crash-interdiction :-) This
may mean downloading, processing or even editing for quality, and only
then rendering.