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--
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3rd day of the 19 month 2024.

It's gonna be a long year!

D.

On 19-Mar-2024 15:16, News wrote:
> 3rd day of the 19 month 2024.
>
> It's gonna be a long year!
>
> D.
>

The U.S. date format is month-day-year: the month appears before the day
(May 12, 2022), while UK style is day-month-year: the day appears before
the month (12 May 2022). A comma separates day and year in American
English; no comma is necessary in a date in British English. Be careful
with all-numeric dates: 12/5 is December 5 in American usage (month-day)
but 12 May in British (day-month). The ISO date format, YYYY-MM-DD,
helps eliminate ambiguity and avoid confusion in international settings.

Am 19.03.24 um 20:16 schrieb News:
> 3rd day of the 19 month 2024.
>
> It's gonna be a long year!

Not at all. Anglo-Saxons do not have the capabilty to understand the
beauty of correct (=metric or decimal) systems. That is also why they
get most things wrong at a painfully slow speed. *SCNR*

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

In article <utcsmh$113fk$1@dont-email.me>,
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> Am 19.03.24 um 20:16 schrieb News:
> > 3rd day of the 19 month 2024.
> >
> > It's gonna be a long year!

> Not at all. Anglo-Saxons do not have the capabilty to understand the
> beauty of correct (=metric or decimal) systems. That is also why they
> get most things wrong at a painfully slow speed. *SCNR*

dd-mm-yyyy is much easier to understand, rather than the cack-handed
method used elsewhere. (And I mean that in its original sense) :-)

Not sure how you can decimalise something that has 365/366 or 12 or 7 or
24.

Anyway, you guys in Europe use commas 20,99 instead of 20.99 that's not
very decimal of you... ;-)

BTW. Originally I was just joshing... :-}

D.

In article <utcroa$1ijqt$1@solani.org>,
Serdu <no@mail.invalid> wrote:
> On 19-Mar-2024 15:16, News wrote:
> > 3rd day of the 19 month 2024.
> >
> > It's gonna be a long year!
> >
> > D.
> >

> The U.S. date format is month-day-year: the month appears before the day
> (May 12, 2022), while UK style is day-month-year: the day appears before
> the month (12 May 2022). A comma separates day and year in American
> English; no comma is necessary in a date in British English. Be careful
> with all-numeric dates: 12/5 is December 5 in American usage (month-day)
> but 12 May in British (day-month). The ISO date format, YYYY-MM-DD,
> helps eliminate ambiguity and avoid confusion in international settings.

Yea, yea!
We know all about that, I was Joshing y'know. ;-)

D.

News <news@triffid.co.uk> Wrote in message:

> Not sure how you can decimalise something that has 365/366 or 12 or 7 or
> 24.

The French had a go in 1793 - 10 day 'weeks', 10 hour days of 100
minutes.

Still a dozen months, though. And they had to add a few 'leap
days' each year to make up the 365¼.

> Anyway, you guys in Europe use commas 20,99 instead of 20.99 that's not
> very decimal of you... ;-)

The UK has left the EU, not Europe.

--
Remove numerics from my email address.

On 19/03/2024 21:25, News wrote:
>
> dd-mm-yyyy is much easier to understand, rather than the cack-handed
> method used elsewhere. (And I mean that in its original sense) :-)
>
>
Easier to understand is personal but people should adhere to ISO
standard and it is: "YYYY-MM-DD".

ISO 8601 tackles the uncertainty by setting out an internationally agreed
way to represent dates
<https://www.iso.org/iso-8601-date-and-time-format.html> but one country
refuses to accept this and guess which country is this? This is the same
country that practices double standards in this world and that country
is called United States. Anything International is not acceptable by
Yankees.

So now we have confusion about trivial things such as how dates should
be represented.

Am 19.03.24 um 22:25 schrieb News:
> In article <utcsmh$113fk$1@dont-email.me>,
> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>> Am 19.03.24 um 20:16 schrieb News:
>>> 3rd day of the 19 month 2024.
>>>
>>> It's gonna be a long year!
>
>> Not at all. Anglo-Saxons do not have the capabilty to understand the
>> beauty of correct (=metric or decimal) systems. That is also why they
>> get most things wrong at a painfully slow speed. *SCNR*
>
>
> dd-mm-yyyy is much easier to understand, rather than the cack-handed
> method used elsewhere. (And I mean that in its original sense) :-)
>
> Not sure how you can decimalise something that has 365/366 or 12 or 7 or
> 24.

Can you smell the irony? ;-)

> Anyway, you guys in Europe use commas 20,99 instead of 20.99 that's not
> very decimal of you... ;-)

Long gone. You are behind the curve about 4-6 decades. And btw: To use
the comma as separator has nothing to do neither with the metric system
nor decimal values.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Am 19.03.24 um 23:21 schrieb Dave Royal:
> News <news@triffid.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>
>> Not sure how you can decimalise something that has 365/366 or 12 or 7 or
>> 24.
>
> The French had a go in 1793 - 10 day 'weeks', 10 hour days of 100
> minutes.
>
> Still a dozen months, though. And they had to add a few 'leap
> days' each year to make up the 365¼.
>
>> Anyway, you guys in Europe use commas 20,99 instead of 20.99 that's not
>> very decimal of you... ;-)
>
> The UK has left the EU, not Europe.

You are denying the obvious.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 3/19/2024 4:15 PM, Serdu wrote:
> On 19-Mar-2024 15:16, News wrote:
>> 3rd day of the 19 month 2024.
>>
>> It's gonna be a long year!
>>
>> D.
>>
>
> The U.S. date format is month-day-year: the month appears before the day
> (May 12, 2022), while UK style is day-month-year: the day appears before
> the month (12 May 2022). A comma separates day and year in American
> English; no comma is necessary in a date in British English. Be careful
> with all-numeric dates: 12/5 is December 5 in American usage (month-day)
> but 12 May in British (day-month). The ISO date format, YYYY-MM-DD,
> helps eliminate ambiguity and avoid confusion in international settings.

Except in the U.S. Military, where the services' official correspondence
manuals stipulate the format as day/month/year. After doing that for 30
years, it became an ingrained habit I've continued long after retirement.

Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
>On 3/19/2024 4:15 PM, Serdu wrote:
>>On 19-Mar-2024 15:16, news@triffid.co.uk wrote:

>>>3rd day of the 19 month 2024.

>>>It's gonna be a long year!

>>The U.S. date format is month-day-year: the month appears before the day
>>(May 12, 2022), while UK style is day-month-year: the day appears before
>>the month (12 May 2022). A comma separates day and year in American
>>English; no comma is necessary in a date in British English. Be careful
>>with all-numeric dates: 12/5 is December 5 in American usage (month-day)
>>but 12 May in British (day-month). The ISO date format, YYYY-MM-DD,
>>helps eliminate ambiguity and avoid confusion in international settings.

>Except in the U.S. Military, where the services' official correspondence
>manuals stipulate the format as day/month/year. After doing that for 30
>years, it became an ingrained habit I've continued long after retirement.

Not to mention, the military uses the 24 hour clock. Civilians more
often than not use the 12 hour clock.

Why cannot we use different different formats for different purposes? I
don't agree with Serdu that the main purpose of ISO date format is to
"help eliminate ambiguity". Its main purpose is to ease sorting. Neither
date-month-year nor month-date-year are useful for sorting.

When I want to put a date in a file name or directory for versioning, I
include an ISO-format date.

I actually prefer "/" to "-" as the separator, but "/" is more likely to
be a special character and unavailable for a file name.

On 3/20/24 10:46 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
>> On 3/19/2024 4:15 PM, Serdu wrote:
>>> On 19-Mar-2024 15:16, news@triffid.co.uk wrote:
>
>>>> 3rd day of the 19 month 2024.
>
>>>> It's gonna be a long year!
>
>>> The U.S. date format is month-day-year: the month appears before the day
>>> (May 12, 2022), while UK style is day-month-year: the day appears before
>>> the month (12 May 2022). A comma separates day and year in American
>>> English; no comma is necessary in a date in British English. Be careful
>>> with all-numeric dates: 12/5 is December 5 in American usage (month-day)
>>> but 12 May in British (day-month). The ISO date format, YYYY-MM-DD,
>>> helps eliminate ambiguity and avoid confusion in international settings.
>
>> Except in the U.S. Military, where the services' official correspondence
>> manuals stipulate the format as day/month/year. After doing that for 30
>> years, it became an ingrained habit I've continued long after retirement.
>
> Not to mention, the military uses the 24 hour clock. Civilians more
> often than not use the 12 hour clock.
>
> Why cannot we use different different formats for different purposes? I
> don't agree with Serdu that the main purpose of ISO date format is to
> "help eliminate ambiguity". Its main purpose is to ease sorting. Neither
> date-month-year nor month-date-year are useful for sorting.
>
> When I want to put a date in a file name or directory for versioning, I
> include an ISO-format date.
>
> I actually prefer "/" to "-" as the separator, but "/" is more likely to
> be a special character and unavailable for a file name.
And then there's the GMT thing in the military. I worked for 3 years with GMT. Had to adjust going
on/off work all the time. Watches were great for civilian time, the BIG wall clock great for work.
--
Linux Mint 21.3 Cinnamon 6.0.4
Al

On 2024-03-20 15:46, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
>> On 3/19/2024 4:15 PM, Serdu wrote:
>>> On 19-Mar-2024 15:16, news@triffid.co.uk wrote:
>
>>>> 3rd day of the 19 month 2024.
>
>>>> It's gonna be a long year!
>
>>> The U.S. date format is month-day-year: the month appears before the day
>>> (May 12, 2022), while UK style is day-month-year: the day appears before
>>> the month (12 May 2022). A comma separates day and year in American
>>> English; no comma is necessary in a date in British English. Be careful
>>> with all-numeric dates: 12/5 is December 5 in American usage (month-day)
>>> but 12 May in British (day-month). The ISO date format, YYYY-MM-DD,
>>> helps eliminate ambiguity and avoid confusion in international settings.
>
>> Except in the U.S. Military, where the services' official correspondence
>> manuals stipulate the format as day/month/year. After doing that for 30
>> years, it became an ingrained habit I've continued long after retirement.
>
> Not to mention, the military uses the 24 hour clock. Civilians more
> often than not use the 12 hour clock.
>
> Why cannot we use different different formats for different purposes? I
> don't agree with Serdu that the main purpose of ISO date format is to
> "help eliminate ambiguity". Its main purpose is to ease sorting. Neither
> date-month-year nor month-date-year are useful for sorting.

It does eliminate ambiguity. When I see a date starting with the year,
XXXX-XX-XX, I know immediately it is an ISO date, and I know which is
the month and which the day.

And it eases sorting.

Both reasons are equally important to me.

Ah, I also use the 24 hour time.

> When I want to put a date in a file name or directory for versioning, I
> include an ISO-format date.
>
> I actually prefer "/" to "-" as the separator, but "/" is more likely to
> be a special character and unavailable for a file name.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 03/20/2024 10:46 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> ISO date format, YYYY-MM-DD
I write a lot of reports and and manage schedule notifications.
Therefore I have adapted the ISO format, YYYY-MM-DD.

Using the ISO format puts all of the reports on a given subject in
chronological order. When you access these report it is the practice to
want to know what happened on a given day and month. So it puts them in
the order that the are used. It does not put the reports "randomly" on
the disk.

When filing the ISO format makes so much more sense that any other
arrangement.

knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 03/20/2024 10:46 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

Nothing I had written was retained in the quote. The out-of-context
fragment quoted was written by Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com>.

>>ISO date format, YYYY-MM-DD

>I write a lot of reports and and manage schedule notifications.
>Therefore I have adapted the ISO format, YYYY-MM-DD.

>Using the ISO format puts all of the reports on a given subject in
>chronological order. When you access these report it is the practice to
>want to know what happened on a given day and month. So it puts them in
>the order that the are used. It does not put the reports "randomly" on
>the disk.

>When filing the ISO format makes so much more sense that any other
>arrangement.

News <news@triffid.co.uk> Wrote in message:

> Anyway, you guys in Europe use commas 20,99 instead of 20.99 that's not
> very decimal of you... ;-)

Apparently, in Britain, the use of the decimal point, aka
interpunct or mid-dot, had long been preferred as a decimal
separator to the full stop or period.

So 12·34 rather than 12.34

(Which is what I was taught and probably still use when writing
rather than typing.)

But that was rejected by the SI - the French Système International
d'unités (but I don't know when).

During decimalisation in Britain in the 1960s (which was only of
currency as far as a was aware at the time) after some debate the
full stop was adopted. By the Ministry of Technology - so we have
Tony Benn to thank for that!

<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator>

That piece also mentions the use of the 'upper comma' to separate
every third digit, rather than the comma.

So 1'234'567 rather than 1,234,567

I had a Casio 12-digit calculator that did that. I bought it when
working on a Japanese accounting system - the numbers of Yen were
so large.

--
Remove numerics from my email address.

In article <utfs3j$1pddk$1@dont-email.me>,
knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 03/20/2024 10:46 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> > ISO date format, YYYY-MM-DD
> I write a lot of reports and and manage schedule notifications.
> Therefore I have adapted the ISO format, YYYY-MM-DD.

> Using the ISO format puts all of the reports on a given subject in
> chronological order. When you access these report it is the practice to
> want to know what happened on a given day and month. So it puts them in
> the order that the are used. It does not put the reports "randomly" on
> the disk.

> When filing the ISO format makes so much more sense that any other
> arrangement.

Indeed!
I consider it a horses for courses situation... :-)

Though generally, being an Englander I use the dd/mm/yyyy format, but when
I'm working on things to be stored, like graphics or documents, I use the
yyyy/mm/dd format in the file names, which as you note makes finding and
sorting easier.

D

On 3/19/24 16:15, Serdu wrote:
> On 19-Mar-2024 15:16, News wrote:
>> 3rd day of the 19 month 2024.
>>
>> It's gonna be a long year!
>>
>> DMy pref.
>>
>
> The U.S. date format is month-day-year: the month appears before the day
> (May 12, 2022), while UK style is day-month-year: the day appears before
> the month (12 May 2022). A comma separates day and year in American
> English; no comma is necessary in a date in British English. Be careful
> with all-numeric dates: 12/5 is December 5 in American usage (month-day)
> but 12 May in British (day-month). The ISO date format, YYYY-MM-DD,
> helps eliminate ambiguity and avoid confusion in international settings.

Before getting into dotting i's, crossing T's or separators I'd like
software prefs to provide for filtering chronologically acceptable
formats and isolating brain-dead ones that no longer have a place in
this century or hereafter and which I don't even want to see polluting
my monitor. Some people read left-2-right some the other way around.

The ONLY format I use is 2024-03-21-04:29:51EDT the revese of which
would be EDT-04:29:51-21-03-2024

But the sequence ALWAYS has to make sense so that from it one might
decode which is day and which is month (AND it has to text-sortable)
when for example one encounters 2024-03-09 or 09-03-2024 both of which
SHOULD decode to March 9.

My 2 cents

On 2024-03-21 09:37, bad sector wrote:

> The ONLY format I use is 2024-03-21-04:29:51EDT the revese of which
> would be EDT-04:29:51-21-03-2024

You should use the standard, like it or not, because it is the standard.
And that is not it. Don't invent.

>
> But the sequence ALWAYS has to make sense so that from it one might
> decode which is day and which is month (AND it has to text-sortable)
> when for example one encounters 2024-03-09 or 09-03-2024 both of which
> SHOULD decode to March 9.

When I encounter 09-03-2024 I have no idea if it is October or March.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-03-21 09:04, Dave Royal wrote:
> News <news@triffid.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>
>> Anyway, you guys in Europe use commas 20,99 instead of 20.99 that's not
>> very decimal of you... ;-)
>
> Apparently, in Britain, the use of the decimal point, aka
> interpunct or mid-dot, had long been preferred as a decimal
> separator to the full stop or period.
>
> So 12·34 rather than 12.34
>
> (Which is what I was taught and probably still use when writing
> rather than typing.)
>
> But that was rejected by the SI - the French Système International
> d'unités (but I don't know when).

International, not French.

In the nations of the British Empire (and, later, the
Commonwealth of Nations), the full stop could be used
in typewritten material and its use was not banned,
although the interpunct (a.k.a. decimal point, point
or mid dot) was preferred as a decimal separator, in
printing technologies that could accommodate it, e.g.
99·95 .[17] However, as the mid dot was already in
common use in the mathematics world to indicate
multiplication, the SI rejected its use as the
decimal separator.

(wikipedia)

>
> During decimalisation in Britain in the 1960s (which was only of
> currency as far as a was aware at the time) after some debate the
> full stop was adopted. By the Ministry of Technology - so we have
> Tony Benn to thank for that!
>
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator>
>
> That piece also mentions the use of the 'upper comma' to separate
> every third digit, rather than the comma.
>
> So 1'234'567 rather than 1,234,567
>
> I had a Casio 12-digit calculator that did that. I bought it when
> working on a Japanese accounting system - the numbers of Yen were
> so large.

In Spain the tradition was to use the comma. But during the 70's we used
the dot or point, simply because calculators came with the decimal
point, and then computers, and these could not be changed.

Then computers started supporting localization, and we went back to the
comma (but not in programming).

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 21/03/2024 11:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
> When I encounter 09-03-2024 I have no idea if it is October or March.
>

You don't even know if 9th month is September or October. Perhaps learn
that first before tackling the difficult question about standard way of
using dates.

Good luck.

In article <rpjtckx5pr.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>,
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-03-21 09:37, bad sector wrote:

> > The ONLY format I use is 2024-03-21-04:29:51EDT the revese of which
> > would be EDT-04:29:51-21-03-2024

> You should use the standard, like it or not, because it is the standard.
> And that is not it. Don't invent.

> >
> > But the sequence ALWAYS has to make sense so that from it one might
> > decode which is day and which is month (AND it has to text-sortable)
> > when for example one encounters 2024-03-09 or 09-03-2024 both of which
> > SHOULD decode to March 9.

> When I encounter 09-03-2024 I have no idea if it is October or March.

September or March maybe. ;-)

D.

On 3/21/24 08:14, Dominic Solanke wrote:
> On 21/03/2024 11:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>> When I encounter 09-03-2024 I have no idea if it is October or March.
>>
>
> You don't even know if 9th month is September or October. Perhaps learn
> that first before tackling the difficult question about standard way of
> using dates.
>
> Good luck.

Most of the confusion comes from formats cooked up in dimwit places. A
chronological basis isn't going to cure all ills but it sure will go a
very long way toward doing so. I name pictures and just about anything
going into folders like so

2024-03-09-21:54:32_LaPlumeDeMaTante.png

as an example, that allows easy sorting in addition to nixing nowadays
rampant date or other format-ambiguity.

Another factor is the regionalisation overkill that only makes me wanna
puke! I live in a bilingual 'locale' but am quadri-lingual so I really
sympathise with people living in quadrilingual places. There are a
minimum of two sets of every imaginable standard here and I'm up to here
with being continuously *coralled* with the likes of "do you require
translation?" and similar CRAP. People KNOW if they need translation so
just give them a button for it. And IF the web-navigator does translate
then it should translate everything on the page including forum
articles. Users also KNOW what formats they want to use so the
regionalised straight-jacket should always cater to opting out of any of
its components.

On 3/21/24 07:14, Dominic Solanke wrote:
> On 21/03/2024 11:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>> When I encounter 09-03-2024 I have no idea if it is October or March.
>>
>
> You don't even know if 9th month is September or October. Perhaps learn
> that first before tackling the difficult question about standard way of
> using dates.
>
> Good luck.

The 9th month ought to be November. The words September, October,
November, December sound like 7,8,9,10.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"When a clear head leads the way, a warm heart can safely follow." --
Marilyn Vos Savant