Am 17.12.2023 um 18:12:33 Uhr schrieb yeti:

> Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> writes:
>
> > No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
> > 10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I
> > can't find older stuff even when available there.
>
> Then it is a toy. Get a tool instead.

Do you know one?

I tried suck, but that is intended to speak to a local news server or
at least its spool.

On 2023-12-17, Ray Banana <rayban@raybanana.net> wrote:
> Thus spake De ongekruisigde <verstotene@news.eternal-september.org>
>
> Please fix your From: header. You have no permission to use this
> domain for your mail address.

Oops, sorry about that. It was the hostname setting in my slrnrc
file (which I assumed had to be the usenet server's)

Thus spake Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de>
> Do you know one?
> I tried suck, but that is intended to speak to a local news server or
> at least its spool.

suck news.eternal-september.org -U /user/ -P /password/ -bf suckSpool
will download all articles to a local directory.

man suck.

--
Пу́тін — хуйло́
https://www.eternal-september.org

Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> writes:

> I tried suck, but that is intended to speak to a local news server or
> at least its spool.

GNUS (and probably many other newsreaders) can do it.

--
I do not bite, I just want to play.

Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
> Am 17.12.2023 um 18:12:33 Uhr schrieb yeti:
>
> > Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> writes:
> >
> > > No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
> > > 10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I
> > > can't find older stuff even when available there.
> >
> > Then it is a toy. Get a tool instead.
>
> Do you know one?
>
> I tried suck, but that is intended to speak to a local news server or
> at least its spool.

Another poster already mentioned slrn. Ray explained how you can use
suck.

As you mention suck, I assume your platform is Linux/Unix-like (I
didn't see a User-Agent: or similar header).

If so, the tin newsreader (which I use) can be a solution.

And for a local 'cache'/'proxy'/news-server/etc. you can use things
like slrnpull, Leafnode-2, etc..

I use Hamster, but that's a Windows program (might run on WINE, but
using Leafnode-2 is probably better/'cleaner').

In article <ulngf2$32jf9$1@dont-email.me>,
Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>Am 17.12.2023 um 18:12:33 Uhr schrieb yeti:
>
>> Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> writes:
>>
>> > No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
>> > 10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I
>> > can't find older stuff even when available there.
>>
>> Then it is a toy. Get a tool instead.
>
>Do you know one?
>
>I tried suck, but that is intended to speak to a local news server or
>at least its spool.
>

What operating system, and what kind of UI do you prefer?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article <657f10f4$1@news.ausics.net>, noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 14:34:01 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Usenet had spam before it had a web presence. Spam will appear anywhere
>> that has an audience and lacks sufficient controls to prevent it.
>
>true, but google introduced an exponential increase

And that is abuse to no end!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <657f11ea$1@news.ausics.net>, noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:02:00 +0000, The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <657c3e73$1@news.ausics.net>, noel <deletethis@invalid.lan>
>> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 09:00:23 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 14.12.2023 um 22:56:56 Uhr schrieb Julieta Shem:
>>>>
>>>>> We got to provide solutions our ourselves.
>>>>
>>>> Does anybody here want to host a web interface like rocksolid light?
>>>
>>>If you want web interfaces go run a forum.
>>>
>>>dnews has a web interface - I shut it down in the late 90's because the
>>>more who found it abused it.
>>
>> Now username/password protection?
>
>yes it had that, but the spam bots kept trying to get in at a monumental
>rate, captchas didnt exist back then, or not sane ones that someone as
>blind as Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder could even pass :)

No security all right!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <87a5q8itpq.fsf@tilde.institute>,
yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
>Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> writes:
>
>> No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
>> 10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I can't
>> find older stuff even when available there.
>
>Then it is a toy. Get a tool instead.
>

GG is blocked from here!

>--
>I do not bite, I just want to play.

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 14:39:50 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote:

>
> This is where the vagaries and technicalities of NNTP vs NNRP come into
> play.
>
> NNTP is server to server feeding articles.
>
> NNRP is client to server fetching and posting articles.
>
> Often the protocols are mutually exclusive, partially out of security
> (clients can't feed) and partially out of daemon simplicity (why have
> NNRP stack in a pure NNTP server).
>
> What's more is that in my experience, the ability to be a peer and use
> NNTP to feed articles is often controlled by IP. As such, any
> connections from said IP is automatically doesn't have access to NNRP,
> and vice versa.

Network News Transport Protocol doesnt infer server to server.

Those around >30 years ago know that because all clients asked for NNTP
Server Details, even in, ohh what was that windowsy thing... Trumpet or
Trombone... to todays clients, because of its popularity waining in
recent years, the dumbed down muppets might have have changed to calling
it a more dumb arse term in some clients...I dunno, its not in ones I
use... like half of the kids today think google /is/ the WWW.

Also, I'm sure Russ can chime in here but the term NNRP was introduced by
INN in later years, but i'm on holidays so CBF doing exact fact checking
on its origins, but it certainly was not around 30 years ago, I forget
its exact number, but check rfc 97? ... one of them just cant put my
finger on it, 971 is coming to mind for some reason but maybe one of the
others...

On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 21:33:37 +0000, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> In article <657c4487$1@news.ausics.net>, noel <deletethis@invalid.lan>
> wrote:
>>
>>Why would you want the content archived outside of usenet, it survived
>>just fine back in the say before search engines
>
> But it did not. Most of the early Usenet archives that were turned over
> to dejanews were a combination of files people had personally saved and
> fragments of Henry Spencer's backup tapes from utzoo. A lot of it was
> lost meaning that although there are many postings from before dejanews
> was created, the selection is not random and they cannot be used for any
> statistical analysis.
> --scott

Fair comment Scott, some providers never expired posts, sadly most of
them are now gone, I was small then and usenet was (still is) only a
secondary service I offered since my dialup ISP days and the cost of disk
space back then was scary, but luckily so was the low speeds and cost of
data so users didnt want binaries tying up their phone line all day :)

wasn't until later 90's when disks were bigger and cheaper and this
faster thing called ADSL appeared, but I then had a retention of 10 days
for binaries, sadly in mid 2000's the controller had a catostrophic
failure roytally roting teh raid disks too, and all was lost, so had to
start again, that time I decided no more binaries so backing up the
spools were easier with our no expire policy - I'm not alone in long term
storage, granted maybe none of us go back 30 years, and I'll admit back
then usenet was light on spam and trolls, it was technical and
informative, unlike today :)

On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 18:03:22 -0400, Wally J wrote:

> noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> wrote
>
>> Why would you want the content archived outside of usenet, it survived
>> just fine back in the say before search engines
>
> Aurgh.
>
> :)
>
> Hi Noel,
> You have to think differently. Big picture. Think of others. Not
> yourself.
> Think of those others not being technical. They don't know what you
> know.
>

Absolutely, no disagreement there.
> I can sense that you're likely a good person

SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH don't say that too loudly :P

>
> The futility of Usenet is it requires an account.

Not here (but I'm country limited so abusers can be dealt with)

> The futility of Usenet is it requires a newsreader of some type.

Yes, but so does your Email, wether it's a pop3/imap client - or like
forums and websites, a web browser, so that's really moot, doesnt
thunderbird still support nntp? I've not looked in years.

> The futility of Usenet is it is (almost) never archived for long.

That's service provider dependant, but since at least half of them do
have short periods I'll grant you this one :)

> The futility of Usenet is that it requires knowledge to read for free.

Yep
> The futility of Usenet is the search is only as good as your newsreader.

Yep

> The futility of Usenet is you can't easily reference an article by URL.
> (Sure, you can reference a message-id but you have to find it first)

Yep
>
> Anyway, it's pretty irksome people don't get it that it's nice to be
> able to search before posting and it's even nicer to be able to
> reference a thread or article for a mother who doesn't even know how to
> spell Usenet.

The problem is, ask yourself, do you really expect to find anything of
substantial value, I can go into any group, including my technical based
subscriptions like programming, electrical, telecoms, scientific, and ham
radio groups, and even THEY are full of trolls (trolls - not spammers) -
do you really want them archived?

On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:16:18 +1000, noel wrote:

> Server Details, even in, ohh what was that windowsy thing... Trumpet or
> Trombone... to todays clients, because of its popularity waining in

LOL I think I was thinking of free-agent hahahaha, holiday mode has
made my brain mushy I think trumpet was tcp for win 3... or I might still
have screew that up - never been a windows fan so my care factor is
pretty much zero anyway :)

noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> writes:

> Server Details, even in, ohh what was that windowsy thing... Trumpet or
> Trombone...

Well, you need *something* to push air down the windsock...

On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 03:42:40 +0000, Tom Furie wrote:

> noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> writes:
>
>> Server Details, even in, ohh what was that windowsy thing... Trumpet or
>> Trombone...
>
> Well, you need *something* to push air down the windsock...

Exactly! Trumpet Winsock :) I remember it well.

noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> wrote:

[...]
> the controller had a catostrophic failure roytally roting
> teh raid disks too, and all was lost, so had to start again
[...]

That's lyrical, that is.
You could write an epic saga around those words.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator
<snipeco.1@gmail.com>

Google to close Usenet gateway; my pet rock Gordon cheered.

On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 14:23:24 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

> noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> wrote:
>
> [...]
>> the controller had a catostrophic failure roytally roting teh raid
>> disks too, and all was lost, so had to start again
> [...]
>
> That's lyrical, that is.
> You could write an epic saga around those words.

my band days ended a loooooooooong time ago, even then I was only a
drummer and backing vocals, although apparently I did a good vocal cover
of Pink Floyd's turning away and comfortably numb :)

To further add value so that everyone benefits from every action...

Here's a table for netizens to put into their Usenet notes file:
(as always, please improve as we all know more together than alone).

WEB ARCHIVES (require no account, no software, all platforms, URL output)
a. DejaGoogle archives (no longer updated after February 2024)
<http://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
b. Davide Cavion's Narkive (WIP)
<https://news.admin.peering.narkive.com>
c. Retro Guy's NovaBBS/RockSolid archive (3years/100K articles)
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=news.admin.peering>

These are useful for those conscientious netizens who run a search before
they post a question or they reference an existing answer - and it will be
useful to forward (e.g., by email) a reference the non-Usenet citizen (like
your mom) to a useful Usenet thread or article (which they can read without
needing a newsreader or an account as it works on every platform browser).

To continue to add useful on-topic value with every post, there's also the
Message-ID archives (which most people know about, but perhaps not all).
<https://article.olduse.net/>
<http://al.howardknight.net>

For example, one can look up an article if they have the message id, e.g.,
Message-ID: <ulg14i$3o4hi$1@paganini.bofh.team>
Message-ID: <2023121523452261422-loveshisspam@narkive.com>
Message-ID: <245e50b032147b7bf2dc3fe5b2c1e048@news.novabbs.com>
etc.

Bear in mind that the dejagoogle archives removed the message-id from the
header information years ago - but many of the other archives did not.

There are also other options for those who have an account on a server:
suck news.eternal-september.org -U /user/ -P /password/ -bf suckSpool
--
As always, please add value in every post so that everyone benefits.

Goon Ghule and NecroSmurf destroyed the usenet.

From vjp2.at@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com Wed Aug 17 21:40:24 2016
Path: reader2.panix.com!panix!not-for-mail
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: sugg: a soc net style newsreader
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 01:40:08 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <np33lo$81b$1@reader2.panix.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com
X-Trace: reader2.panix.com 1471484408 8235 166.84.1.2 (18 Aug 2016 01:40:08 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 01:40:08 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: tin/2.2.1-20140504 ("Tober an Righ") (UNIX) (NetBSD/6.1.5 (i386))
Xref: panix news.software.readers:307819

I feel social networks and blogs risk monopolisation and censorship, force
conformity, use unnecessary resources, require too fancy software, and
fragment users. Usenet in the 1990s united the world. I was at an event
discussing crowdsourcing for science and folks lamented the demise of usenet.

I'd like to see a reader both online (accessible by lynx browser) and as
an app that looks and feels like a social network. It should most of all
notify you when somone replies to your posts and when your friends post. It
should let you rank (1-10) how important posts are and so decide what to show
you first. I had a celfon in 1990-2009. Dumped it. I really get annoyed when
they ask me for a celfon or to update my browser.

I think MS Outlook's downloading a use list of groups crippled usenet, and
Google has not maintained the deja news franchise (some stuff seems to have
disappeared). Also they did not maintain the hierarchy, which would have
better followed academic departments.

I also think the moderator fanaticism was crippling. You can use kill
files instead of depend on the whim of others. We should allow individuals to
control what they view, not others.

One special peeve is, since I work in fields where brainstorming is
important, I would crosspost to groups I wanted to bring together. But the
narrow minded would complain they didn't want to hear it. I've actually seen
a strong enough current of support for crossposting (now disabled by google
groups, BTW) on the grounds it was more efficient than multiple posts to
multiple groups.

I really do think the internet of the 1990s was freer. Too many search
engines try to control what you see. They even disable booleans. Maybe they
do it to try to be helpful, maybe they are doing it to protect paying
customers, I can't tell. I have an analogy in Otmar Mergenthaler's linotype
leading ot an explosion of press freedom and hence democracies (in places
like Iran, Russia, Germany) in the late 1800s. Of course we know what
happened, govt learned to control the press. Well, look around, same with
internet - maybe not here, but most places.

Remember the orig net was peer-to-peer. Now everyone seems to be logged
in from a server farm in Texas. So where's the "inter" in internet?