Usually, if I right-click on a tile in the taskbar (W7 HP 32 bit,
Classic Shell), "Pin this program to taskbar" is an option.

But I just discovered that Remove Empty Directories (the utility from
https://www.jonasjohn.de/red.htm) only has "Close window" in that menu.

Not a great problem - I wasn't really sure I wanted to pin it anyway - I
was just surprised. Any information?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Sneering doesn't become either the human face or the human soul.
Professor Henry Higgins (in Pygmalion, by George Bernard Shaw)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> Usually, if I right-click on a tile in the taskbar (W7 HP 32 bit,
> Classic Shell), "Pin this program to taskbar" is an option.
>
> But I just discovered that Remove Empty Directories (the utility from
> https://www.jonasjohn.de/red.htm) only has "Close window" in that menu.
>
> Not a great problem - I wasn't really sure I wanted to pin it anyway - I
> was just surprised. Any information?

No information, but perhaps a workaround: I assume you know (read: can
find out) the name and path of the exectable. Open File Explorer, go to
that path, right-click the executable and you'll probably have a 'Pin to
Taskbar' in *that* menu.

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 13:16:13 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>Usually, if I right-click on a tile in the taskbar (W7 HP 32 bit,
>Classic Shell), "Pin this program to taskbar" is an option.
>
>But I just discovered that Remove Empty Directories (the utility from
>https://www.jonasjohn.de/red.htm) only has "Close window" in that menu.
>
>Not a great problem - I wasn't really sure I wanted to pin it anyway - I
>was just surprised. Any information?

I only use RED via the right-click context menu from within File Explorer.
That way, it starts up in the folder I was already in, ready to go.

--

Char Jackson

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 14:58:32, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> Usually, if I right-click on a tile in the taskbar (W7 HP 32 bit,
>> Classic Shell), "Pin this program to taskbar" is an option.
>>
>> But I just discovered that Remove Empty Directories (the utility from
>> https://www.jonasjohn.de/red.htm) only has "Close window" in that menu.
>>
>> Not a great problem - I wasn't really sure I wanted to pin it anyway - I
>> was just surprised. Any information?
>
> No information, but perhaps a workaround: I assume you know (read: can

Curiouser and curiouser (read on)!

>find out) the name and path of the exectable. Open File Explorer, go to

(Well, I got there from go to file location from the properties of the
Start Menu shortcut.)

>that path, right-click the executable and you'll probably have a 'Pin to
>Taskbar' in *that* menu.

I did indeed. But clicking it did nothing. I opened RED anyway, as I was
there - tile appeared in taskbar, as usual; right-clicked on it - and
this time there _was_ the pin option. Although it didn't work still ...

(Oh, and it wasn't just due to my taskbar being rather full: on
repeating the right-click, pin was still there. Had it succeeded, the
option would have been unpin.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

We need a reversal of the old saying: "DON'T do unto others as you would have
them NOT do unto you." (Paraphrase from "The Moral Maze", 1998-11-21: it was an
attempt - quite good I thought - to get a modern [and non-specific] version.)

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 11:51:06, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
>On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 13:16:13 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>>Usually, if I right-click on a tile in the taskbar (W7 HP 32 bit,
>>Classic Shell), "Pin this program to taskbar" is an option.
>>
>>But I just discovered that Remove Empty Directories (the utility from
>>https://www.jonasjohn.de/red.htm) only has "Close window" in that menu.
>>
>>Not a great problem - I wasn't really sure I wanted to pin it anyway - I
>>was just surprised. Any information?
>
>I only use RED via the right-click context menu from within File Explorer.
>That way, it starts up in the folder I was already in, ready to go.
>
Fairy Nuff. I usually decide to run a more wide-aiming scan if I run it
anyway.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

We need a reversal of the old saying: "DON'T do unto others as you would have
them NOT do unto you." (Paraphrase from "The Moral Maze", 1998-11-21: it was an
attempt - quite good I thought - to get a modern [and non-specific] version.)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 14:58:32, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
> >"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> >> Usually, if I right-click on a tile in the taskbar (W7 HP 32 bit,
> >> Classic Shell), "Pin this program to taskbar" is an option.
> >>
> >> But I just discovered that Remove Empty Directories (the utility from
> >> https://www.jonasjohn.de/red.htm) only has "Close window" in that menu.
> >>
> >> Not a great problem - I wasn't really sure I wanted to pin it anyway - I
> >> was just surprised. Any information?
> >
> > No information, but perhaps a workaround: I assume you know (read: can
>
> Curiouser and curiouser (read on)!
>
> >find out) the name and path of the exectable. Open File Explorer, go to
>
> (Well, I got there from go to file location from the properties of the
> Start Menu shortcut.)
>
> >that path, right-click the executable and you'll probably have a 'Pin to
> >Taskbar' in *that* menu.
>
> I did indeed. But clicking it did nothing. I opened RED anyway,

No, not "click(ing)", but *right*-click, i.e. open the context menu
which *File Explorer* - not RED - presents.

File Explorer should give that context menu for any [1] executable
(.exe file), so also for the RED executable. Note however that if the
executable file has already been pinned to the taskbar, the context menu
obviously will only show 'Unpin from Taskbar'

> as I was
> there - tile appeared in taskbar, as usual; right-clicked on it - and
> this time there _was_ the pin option. Although it didn't work still ...
>
> (Oh, and it wasn't just due to my taskbar being rather full: on
> repeating the right-click, pin was still there. Had it succeeded, the
> option would have been unpin.)

[1] I noticed if you *search* for an excutable file, for some reason the
'Pin to Taskbar' option is missing from the contect menu. For example I
was in C:\Windows\System32 and searched for 'calc.exe' in the search
box. FE found calc.exe and calc.exe.mui, but right-clicking on calc.exe
gave a context menu *without* 'Pin to Taskbar'. However if you do not
search, but 'browse'/page to the calc.eexe entry, righ-clicking it will
give 'Pin to Taskbar'. Microsoft works in mysterious ways! :-)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> Usually, if I right-click on a tile in the taskbar (W7 HP 32 bit,
> Classic Shell), "Pin this program to taskbar" is an option.
>
> But I just discovered that Remove Empty Directories (the utility from
> https://www.jonasjohn.de/red.htm) only has "Close window" in that menu.
>
> Not a great problem - I wasn't really sure I wanted to pin it anyway - I
> was just surprised. Any information?

How is the RED tool started? With an executable (.exe or .com), or with
a batch file (.bat)? Batch files cannot be pinned, because they are NOT
executable files. They are text files containing script(s) that call
other executables, and why a command interpreter is needed to read a
..bat file.

As a workaround attempt, I tried creating a shortcut on my desktop that
starts a batch script (.bat file). Right-clicking on that shortcut does
not show "Pin to Taskbar", so .pif and .lnk shortcut files are not
considered executable files (they point elsewhere to start a program,
but are not programs themselves). Then I changed the shortcut from:

Target: <path><batFile>

to:

Target: cmd.exe /c <path><batFile>

and saved changes. cmd.exe is an executable (the command interpreter)
with the .bat file as an argument. When I right-clicked on the modified
shortcut (which now calls cmd.exe), a lot more entries showed up in the
context-menu, like Pin To Taskbar. The default icon doesn't quite help
distinguish one cmd.exe from another, but you can change the icon in the
shortcut's definition.

Some programs, like games, use a loader to then load the program. You
don't load the program's file directly, but have to use its loader
program which is an executable.

Somehow you manage to load RED. How do you do that? What's the command
used to start the program?

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 16:10:09, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>> Usually, if I right-click on a tile in the taskbar (W7 HP 32 bit,
>> Classic Shell), "Pin this program to taskbar" is an option.
>>
>> But I just discovered that Remove Empty Directories (the utility from
>> https://www.jonasjohn.de/red.htm) only has "Close window" in that menu.
>>
>> Not a great problem - I wasn't really sure I wanted to pin it anyway - I
>> was just surprised. Any information?
>
>How is the RED tool started? With an executable (.exe or .com), or with

RED2.exe

>a batch file (.bat)? Batch files cannot be pinned, because they are NOT
>executable files. They are text files containing script(s) that call

Interesting. I've never tried to make a shortcut to a .bat file.

>other executables, and why a command interpreter is needed to read a
>.bat file.
>
>As a workaround attempt, I tried creating a shortcut on my desktop that
>starts a batch script (.bat file). Right-clicking on that shortcut does
>not show "Pin to Taskbar", so .pif and .lnk shortcut files are not
>considered executable files (they point elsewhere to start a program,
>but are not programs themselves). Then I changed the shortcut from:
>
> Target: <path><batFile>
>
>to:
>
> Target: cmd.exe /c <path><batFile>
>
>and saved changes. cmd.exe is an executable (the command interpreter)
>with the .bat file as an argument. When I right-clicked on the modified
>shortcut (which now calls cmd.exe), a lot more entries showed up in the
>context-menu, like Pin To Taskbar. The default icon doesn't quite help
>distinguish one cmd.exe from another, but you can change the icon in the
>shortcut's definition.

I do indeed have cmd.exe as a pinned (and Quick Launch) function - which
opens in the directory I normally want (the one where I have
YouTube-dl.exe stored).
>
>Some programs, like games, use a loader to then load the program. You
>don't load the program's file directly, but have to use its loader
>program which is an executable.
>
>Somehow you manage to load RED. How do you do that? What's the command
>used to start the program?

"C:\Program Files\Remove Empty Directories\RED2.exe"

And I'm pretty sure it's not a loader. Though it does pop up the UAC
thing; I wonder if that's why I can't pin it.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

All's well that ends.

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>> Some programs, like games, use a loader to then load the program.
>> You don't load the program's file directly, but have to use its
>> loader program which is an executable.
>>
>> Somehow you manage to load RED. How do you do that? What's the
>> command used to start the program?
>
> "C:\Program Files\Remove Empty Directories\RED2.exe"
>
> And I'm pretty sure it's not a loader. Though it does pop up the UAC
> thing; I wonder if that's why I can't pin it.

When you load RED2, do you see red2.exe in Task Manager's Details tab?

I can pin to Taskbar my Macrium Reflect program which will pop up the
UAC program. When I click on the pinned Refect button in the Taskbar, I
get the UAC prompt, skip it, and Reflect loads okay. Doesn't seem a UAC
check is going to stop a program from loading (unless you say No in the
UAC prompt to deny the program to run).

Have you yet tried restarting File Explorer (explorer.exe)?

Tiles are more limited than File Explorer. Instead of right-clicking on
a tile and using that context menu, have you tried opening File
Explorer, navigating to the folder with red2.exe, right-clicking on the
file, and using Pin To Taskbar from there?

I have several tiles that have no right-click -> More -> Pin to taskbar
entry. In Windows 10, using its Start Menu tiles, the following have to
Pin to Taskbar entry in the context menu for the tiles:

SysInternals TCP Viewer
40tude Dialog (my NNTP client)
SysInternals Process Explorer, TCP Viewer, AutoRuns
ExecTI
FreeWatch
Device Manager (Windows tool)
WSUS Update Generator
The Dark Mod (game FM loader)

If you don't want to go hunting for the program in Window/File Explorer,
and when the program is running and showing a button in the Taskbar,
have you tried right-clicking on program's Taskbar button to see if Pin
To Taskbar is an option when the program is /running/? For several of
in the above list that have no Pin To Taskbar context menu entry for a
tile in the Start Menu, I can /run/ them, and use the Pin To Taskbar
context menu entry on the running program's Taskbar button. If that
results in adding a pinned Taskbar button that doesn't work to load the
program, I'd stick with using Explorer to right-click on the executable
file and select Pin To Taskbar from the right-click context menu.

<Aside>
Personally I dislike pinning to the Taskbar. There is no indication in
the Taskbar button if the program is running or not. I see a button,
but can't tell if it is actually running. To me, space in the Taskbar
is too valuable to waste on a shortcut. The desktop and toolbar in the
Taskbar is where my shortcuts go. If I don't see a Taskbar button for a
program, I can quickly visually see the program is not running. If I
see a Taskbar button for a program, I know it is running. Using a
pinned Taskbar button both for shortcuts and for running state confuses
in which state the program is in: idle/unloaded or running/loaded.
Getting the idle buttons squashed in with the running button means it is
sooner when the titles on the Taskbar buttons, or even their icons,
become useless for identification (unless you group the Taskbar buttons,
but even then that only helps for multiple windows of the same program,
not when many different programs are loaded).
</Aside>

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> Usually, if I right-click on a tile in the taskbar (W7 HP 32 bit,
> Classic Shell), "Pin this program to taskbar" is an option.
>
> But I just discovered that Remove Empty Directories (the utility from
> https://www.jonasjohn.de/red.htm) only has "Close window" in that menu.
>
> Not a great problem - I wasn't really sure I wanted to pin it anyway - I
> was just surprised. Any information?

When you pin a program to the Taskbar, you are creating a shortcut.
Look in the following folder:

%AppData%\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch\User Pinned\TaskBar

Yeah, I know, it stupidly has "Internet Explorer" in the navpath. I
don't pin anything to the Taskbar (that space is far too valuable to
waste with shortcuts that I can have on the desktop, in toolbars
alongside the Taskbar, or in the Start Menu), so that folder is empty,
for me. When I do pin a program, say by loading it and right-clicking
on the Taskbar button to select Pin To Taskbar, a new shortcut appears
in that folder. That shortcut is simply a shortcut like any other you
can create. You can look in the shortcut's properties to see to where
it points for what it is supposed to load. In fact, in that folder, you
could double-click on the shortcut to see if the program loads okay. If
the shortcut in that folder doesn't load your program, neither will the
Taskbar button that points to that shortcut.

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 17:24:04, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>
>>> Some programs, like games, use a loader to then load the program.
>>> You don't load the program's file directly, but have to use its
>>> loader program which is an executable.
>>>
>>> Somehow you manage to load RED. How do you do that? What's the
>>> command used to start the program?
>>
>> "C:\Program Files\Remove Empty Directories\RED2.exe"
>>
>> And I'm pretty sure it's not a loader. Though it does pop up the UAC
>> thing; I wonder if that's why I can't pin it.
>
>When you load RED2, do you see red2.exe in Task Manager's Details tab?
Yes.
>
>I can pin to Taskbar my Macrium Reflect program which will pop up the
>UAC program. When I click on the pinned Refect button in the Taskbar, I
>get the UAC prompt, skip it, and Reflect loads okay. Doesn't seem a UAC
>check is going to stop a program from loading (unless you say No in the
>UAC prompt to deny the program to run).
>
>Have you yet tried restarting File Explorer (explorer.exe)?
No.
>
>Tiles are more limited than File Explorer. Instead of right-clicking on

I probably used the wrong term. I meant the things that appear in the
taskbar when something is running - are they called buttons? W7 (at
least with Classic Shell, and I think even without) doesn't have tiles
in the W8/W10 sense, I think.

>a tile and using that context menu, have you tried opening File
>Explorer, navigating to the folder with red2.exe, right-clicking on the
>file, and using Pin To Taskbar from there?

Yes. It is in that menu, but it doesn't work.
>
>I have several tiles that have no right-click -> More -> Pin to taskbar
>entry. In Windows 10, using its Start Menu tiles, the following have to
>Pin to Taskbar entry in the context menu for the tiles:
(Sorry, I think I shouldn't have used the word "tile".) I'm guessing you
meant "have no" there rather than "have to".
>
[list]
>
>If you don't want to go hunting for the program in Window/File Explorer,
[no problem - I also have Everything]
>and when the program is running and showing a button in the Taskbar,
>have you tried right-clicking on program's Taskbar button to see if Pin
>To Taskbar is an option when the program is /running/? For several of

Sometimes yes, sometimes no! However, when it _is_ an option there, it
doesn't _do_ anything - in particular, it doesn't pin to taskbar.

>in the above list that have no Pin To Taskbar context menu entry for a
>tile in the Start Menu, I can /run/ them, and use the Pin To Taskbar
>context menu entry on the running program's Taskbar button. If that

That's how I usually do my pinning - run something, then right-click its
taskbar button (sorry, not tile) and pin from there.

>results in adding a pinned Taskbar button that doesn't work to load the

No, it's not adding a pinned button at all.

>program, I'd stick with using Explorer to right-click on the executable
>file and select Pin To Taskbar from the right-click context menu.
>
><Aside>
>Personally I dislike pinning to the Taskbar. There is no indication in
>the Taskbar button if the program is running or not. I see a button,
>but can't tell if it is actually running. To me, space in the Taskbar
>is too valuable to waste on a shortcut. The desktop and toolbar in the
>Taskbar is where my shortcuts go. If I don't see a Taskbar button for a
>program, I can quickly visually see the program is not running. If I
>see a Taskbar button for a program, I know it is running. Using a
>pinned Taskbar button both for shortcuts and for running state confuses
>in which state the program is in: idle/unloaded or running/loaded.
>Getting the idle buttons squashed in with the running button means it is
>sooner when the titles on the Taskbar buttons, or even their icons,
>become useless for identification (unless you group the Taskbar buttons,
>but even then that only helps for multiple windows of the same program,
>not when many different programs are loaded).
></Aside>
Each to his own! I have a double-height taskbar, so two rows of buttons;
but also, when I have a pinned button for something that is _not_
running, it is only square, and only the icon. (Actually it isn't a
button unless I hover over it, it's only the icon; if I hover over it,
the shading appears to make it a square button.) If the application _is_
running, I get a rectangular button, with the icon at its left and the
start of the title to the right of it (sometimes the name of the
application, sometimes the name of the file it has open or similar -
depends on the application whether it puts its name or the filename
first). So I always know whether something is running or not - if it
isn't but is pinned, it's square. What I _don't_ know is, for something
that _is_ running, whether it's pinned or not.

I don't have many things pinned - about four or five, I think.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets
you. - Jeremy Clarkson, Top Gear

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 17:32:12, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
[]
>When you pin a program to the Taskbar, you are creating a shortcut.
>Look in the following folder:
>
>%AppData%\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch\User Pinned\TaskBar
>
>Yeah, I know, it stupidly has "Internet Explorer" in the navpath. I

(Probably because - according to you or Mayayana, I forget which - File
Explorer actually uses Internet Explorer routines to draw its windows,
i. e. a File Explorer window is a very special sort of browser window.
[I guess like Thunderbird apparently uses Firefox code similarly.])

>don't pin anything to the Taskbar (that space is far too valuable to
>waste with shortcuts that I can have on the desktop, in toolbars
>alongside the Taskbar, or in the Start Menu), so that folder is empty,

See previous post - I have a double-height taskbar, and also don't have
much pinned.

>for me. When I do pin a program, say by loading it and right-clicking
>on the Taskbar button to select Pin To Taskbar, a new shortcut appears
>in that folder. That shortcut is simply a shortcut like any other you
>can create. You can look in the shortcut's properties to see to where
>it points for what it is supposed to load. In fact, in that folder, you
>could double-click on the shortcut to see if the program loads okay. If
>the shortcut in that folder doesn't load your program, neither will the
>Taskbar button that points to that shortcut.

When I finally find the right User Pinned\Taskbar folder, I find _seven_
shortcuts to Remove Empty Directories, due presumably to my attempts to
pin it. But no button in the taskbar! Maybe there will be next time I
restart Explorer. I'll report back if so (or if not!). [Clicking on any
of them in the folder start RED no problem.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"If just one child is saved, then we'll have created a police state for the
benefit of just one child."

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> When I finally find the right User Pinned\Taskbar folder, I find
> _seven_ shortcuts to Remove Empty Directories, due presumably to my
> attempts to pin it. But no button in the taskbar! Maybe there will be
> next time I restart Explorer. I'll report back if so (or if not!).
> [Clicking on any of them in the folder start RED no problem.]

Right-click on the desktop, and select Refresh from its context menu.
Check if that gets the shortcuts present in the Pinned\Taskbar folder to
appear in the Taskbar.

You don't need to restart Windows just to reload explorer.exe. Use Task
Manager in your current Windows session.

- Load Task Manager. Look at the tab listing processes.
- Kill all instances of the explorer.exe process.
- The desktop disappears, because explorer.exe is both a file manager
and the desktop manager.
- Use File -> New menu to load a new instance of explorer.exe.
- The desktop reappears. Some tray icons may not reappear (because
their program doesn't monitor state).

I'd delete all the shortcuts you created in the Pinned\Taskbar folder,
and try again to see if using Pin To Taskbar then works. If not, next
step is to double-click the shortcut created in the Pinned\Taskbar
folder to make sure that shortcut loads the program.

Buttons not showing up in the Taskbar, but for which shortcuts were
created in the Pinned\Taskbar folder, smacks of the long-time
auto-refresh problem with explorer. You create a new file or folder,
but cannot see it until you do a refresh. The Refresh context menu
entry may not work, but reloading explorer.exe might.

If reloading explorer doesn't work, delete all the shortcuts in the
Pinned\Taskbar, and re-pin those programs to create new shortcuts. One
cause of the shortcuts not appearing in the Taskbar is the shortcuts are
corrupt or invalid (and why I suggest trying to double-click on those
shortcuts to make sure they really do work).

Does pinning to Taskbar not work for all programs you try, or only for a
few? If for all, could be a group policy has been defined which bans
adding pinned apps to the Taskbar. If you have a Pro or Enterprise
edition of Windows, you have the group policy editor (gpedit.msc) to
check if the policy is defined, and, if so, what is it set to. If a
Home edition (no gpedit.msc), /*all*/ policies are registry entries, so
you can look at them in the registry (using regedit.exe). Some have a
hash which can only be set by using the policy editor (you cannot create
a valid hash), but many, if not the vast majority, do not.

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/prevent-pinning-or-unpinning-of-taskbar-items-in-windows-10
See the section on the registry setting.

Although written for Windows 10, *many* registry settings remain the
same across a multitude of editions and versions of Windows. The
setting determines if buttons for pinned apps appear in the Taskbar. If
absent, the default setting gets used (which allows pinned apps in the
Taskbar).

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 13:16:13 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>Usually, if I right-click on a tile in the taskbar (W7 HP 32 bit,
>Classic Shell), "Pin this program to taskbar" is an option.
>
>But I just discovered that Remove Empty Directories (the utility from
>https://www.jonasjohn.de/red.htm) only has "Close window" in that menu.
>
>Not a great problem - I wasn't really sure I wanted to pin it anyway - I
>was just surprised. Any information?

I tried to pin RED to the taskbar in the following OS versions:

Win 7 - no menu option to directly pin RED to the taskbar, but I pinned a
random different application to the taskbar, then I opened Properties for
that shortcut and edited it to point to <path>RED2.exe. That worked.

Win 8.1 - Pin to taskbar was an option and it worked.
Win 10 - Pin to taskbar was an option and it worked.

--

Char Jackson

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 17:24:04 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

><Aside>
>Personally I dislike pinning to the Taskbar. There is no indication in
>the Taskbar button if the program is running or not. I see a button,
>but can't tell if it is actually running.
>...
></Aside>

Win 7, 8/8.1, and 10 each have a way of indicating whether a pinned task is
running or not. With 7/8.x, the icon gets highlighted. With 10, the icon
gets underlined.

At least, that's what I see here.

--

Char Jackson

Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 17:24:04 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>><Aside>
>>Personally I dislike pinning to the Taskbar. There is no indication in
>>the Taskbar button if the program is running or not. I see a button,
>>but can't tell if it is actually running.
>>...
>></Aside>
>
> Win 7, 8/8.1, and 10 each have a way of indicating whether a pinned task is
> running or not. With 7/8.x, the icon gets highlighted. With 10, the icon
> gets underlined.
>
> At least, that's what I see here.

I see that, too, but the underline is showing running state whether the
app is pinned or not. That is, underline when not pinned and running,
and underline when pinned and running. Mixes running and pinned state,
so I often miss there is an underline.

I'd rather see a pushpin icon overlay to indicate pinned (similar to how
you see the curved arrow icon overlay for shortcuts), and a separate
underline for running state.

When not pinned, the underline is superfluous. Obviously the app is
running when the button appears. It's gone when the app is not running.
Easy to see at a glance: button = running, no button = not running.
Showing an underline on a non-pinned button duplicates running status
for a non-pinned button.

However, not showing an underline on the button could mean a non-pinned
running app, or a pinned non-running app. So, that would also mix
statuses. That's why I figure one overlay to indicate pinning, and a
different overly to indicate running. The result would be:

Non-pinned:
- Button missing = not running.
- Button + underline = running.
(Underlining indicates running state whether pinned or not.)

Pinned:
- Button + pin overlay = not running.
- Button + pin overlay + underline = running.

Pin state and running state for the button should be separate
indicators. Of course, some users don't want multiple overlays on an
icon. For me, when I'm not looking directly at the button (and notice
an underline or not), I can tell there are running programs by the mere
presence of the buttons. Whether a normal, fullsized, or minimized
window, the button's presence tells me the program is running. Easier
to notice a button than an underline. You'd have to peer directly at
the button to notice the underline.

Remember how the button flashes when the program wants attention?
That's because it wants to get your focus rather than rely on an
overlay, especially when you are working and looking elsewhere at the
screen than bringing your eyes down to the button. You could probably
continuously flash the underline, and not notice the small change.

However, even if separate overlays were used to indicated pinned and
running states, I probably still wouldn't use pinned buttons. The
taskbar is precious space. For a non-running app, I have a 2nd row in
the Taskbar dedicated to toolbars with shortcuts to those programs
instead of wasting the top row on shortcuts.

Top row: buttons for running apps.
2nd row: multiple toolbars (to group shortcuts by function).

I need to waste space in the top row when the same shortcuts that are
shown in the top row that are in the toolbars in the 2nd row. I suspect
a lot of users don't know they can create and add toolbars in the
Taskbar, or how to drag all the toolbars to occupy just one row in the
Taskbar.

In fact, I have more shortcuts in multiple toolbars in the Taskbar than
can have their icons shown side by side in the same row of the Taskbar.
I have 32 shortcuts in 6 toolbars (used to group the shortcuts) with
space even for a decent sized Address bar (to let me enter URLs, search
strings, or file system navpaths). Toolbars can be compressed in width.
If you drag left a toolbar to the right of a toolbar, the left toolbar
squashes down in size, and shows a rightward chevron indicating there
are more shortcuts in the toolbar. Clicking on the chevron shows me the
hidden shortcuts in a toolbar. The minimum size for a toolbar is one
icon, so I could have a toolbar with, say, 20 shortcuts occupying the
space of one icon and the chevron in the 2nd row of the Taskbar. In
fact, I could drag the left side of the Address bar (which on the
rightside of the 2nd row) as far left as it will go while squashing all
the toolbar down to 1 icon and 1 chevron on the left of the Address bar.
I don't waste space showing the title of the toolbar or the titles of
the shortcuts in each toolbar.

I don't squash down all the Taskbar toolbars (all in the same row of the
Taskbar). The most used shortcuts in a toolbar are shown, and the rest
are accessed by clicking on the chevron to see those shortcuts. This is
very similar to how you can select which icons show in the tray area,
and which are hidden until you click on the chevron, except I'm
exhibiting this collapsing behavior across multiple toolbars in the
Taskbar. Some icons are shown in a toolbar, some are hidden and
accessed via chevron. The toolbars act similar to how in prior versions
of Windows where I could do similar grouping of shortcuts in a cascading
menu, except the cascading menu is a horizontal row of toolbars that
afford grouping with collapsing view.

I use Taskbar toolbars for all those pinned shortcuts that some users
like to use. I can click on the pinned icon (a shortcut) in the
Taskbar, or I can click on the same shortcut in a Taskbar toolbar.
Click here (pinned button), or click there (toolbar shortcut). However,
with toolbars, I get grouping of shortcuts by which toolbar they are in,
plus I can have a collapsed portion of toolbars that isn't available
with pinned buttons. With 32 shortcuts at reach in my toolbars, pinning
to the Taskbar would make the buttons unrecognizable. Collapse with
toolbar means I have lots of space for shortcuts, and with grouping.
Pinned buttons cannot be grouped. As I add more pinned buttons, they
start getting squashed. I don't have enough apps to pin to the Taskbar
to see if eventually chevrons appear on the left and right allowing me
to scroll through the pinned buttons, or if they just continue to squash
to eventually become too small and beyond recognition.

On 10/4/2021 7:28 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 17:24:04 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>><Aside>
>>Personally I dislike pinning to the Taskbar. There is no indication in
>>the Taskbar button if the program is running or not. I see a button,
>>but can't tell if it is actually running.
>>...
>></Aside>
>
>
> Win 7, 8/8.1, and 10 each have a way of indicating whether a pinned task is
> running or not. With 7/8.x, the icon gets highlighted. With 10, the icon
> gets underlined.
>
> At least, that's what I see here.

That's also what I see in 10. I can't remember what it was in 7/8.x.

--
Ken

On 10/5/2021 11:30 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 10/4/2021 7:28 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 17:24:04 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>
>>> <Aside>
>>> Personally I dislike pinning to the Taskbar.  There is no indication in
>>> the Taskbar button if the program is running or not.  I see a button,
>>> but can't tell if it is actually running.
>>> ...
>>> </Aside>
>>
>>
>> Win 7, 8/8.1, and 10 each have a way of indicating whether a pinned task is
>> running or not. With 7/8.x, the icon gets highlighted. With 10, the icon
>> gets underlined.
>>
>> At least, that's what I see here.
>
>
> That's also what I see in 10. I can't remember what it was in 7/8.x.

The scheme in Win7 uses an "accent effect" that's hard to describe,
but it was probably a "3D" effect that doesn't register on my brain.
They use various levels of brightening of the effect, to indicate
running or foremost.

https://i.postimg.cc/PJ2g9r4x/Taskbar-Win7.gif

Paul

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 21:23:58, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
>On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 13:16:13 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>>Usually, if I right-click on a tile in the taskbar (W7 HP 32 bit,
>>Classic Shell), "Pin this program to taskbar" is an option.
>>
>>But I just discovered that Remove Empty Directories (the utility from
>>https://www.jonasjohn.de/red.htm) only has "Close window" in that menu.
>>
>>Not a great problem - I wasn't really sure I wanted to pin it anyway - I
>>was just surprised. Any information?
>
>I tried to pin RED to the taskbar in the following OS versions:
>
>Win 7 - no menu option to directly pin RED to the taskbar, but I pinned a
>random different application to the taskbar, then I opened Properties for
>that shortcut and edited it to point to <path>RED2.exe. That worked.

Ingenious! I've tried that; I used the calculator. It worked, and made
an icon (pinned button) in the taskbar which, when clicked, opened RED,
though it still showed the calculator icon. Though when RED opened, it
appeared as a normal running-icon button for RED (with its coffee-cup
icon), leaving the calculator-showing pinned button there _as well_.

I closed RED, then went to change the icon in the properties of the
shortcut in the QL\UPinned\Taskbar folder (where I'd already changed
what it opened); the pinned button in the taskbar now showed the right
icon. But when I try clicking on it, it says something like "not found;
would yo like me to delete?"; when I said yes, the button disappeared
from the taskbar - but the shortcut is still there is QL\UP\T!

I'll see if it returns next time I restart Explorer!
>
>Win 8.1 - Pin to taskbar was an option and it worked.
>Win 10 - Pin to taskbar was an option and it worked.
>
There's obviously something slightly odd about RED2.exe, given that you
didn't find a pin option (in 7) either!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush.
It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.
-Robert Maynard Hutchins, educator (1899-1977)

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 21:28:36, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
>On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 17:24:04 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>><Aside>
>>Personally I dislike pinning to the Taskbar. There is no indication in
>>the Taskbar button if the program is running or not. I see a button,
>>but can't tell if it is actually running.
>>...
>></Aside>
>
>
>Win 7, 8/8.1, and 10 each have a way of indicating whether a pinned task is
>running or not. With 7/8.x, the icon gets highlighted. With 10, the icon
>gets underlined.
>
>At least, that's what I see here.
>
Three (well, four really including the null case) states:

10: pinned, not running.
11: pinned and running.
01: running but not pinned.
00: neither running nor pinned.

I (W7-32 HP, Classic Shell) see 10 as a square icon - becomes a square
button when hovered over. I see 11 and 01 as the same: a rectangular
button with an icon and text beside it. I do not see 00 in the taskbar
at all, of course. When I close a 11, its taskbar representation returns
to the square; when I close an 01, it disappears from the taskbar.

From what he describes above, VanguardLH (W7 I presume since he's
joining in this thread here) sees 10 and 11 as the same (and I'm
guessing 01 as something else, and 00 not at all, same as me).

In other words, I can't tell if a running program is pinned or not; VLH
can't tell if a pinned program is running or not.

Very curious!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush.
It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.
-Robert Maynard Hutchins, educator (1899-1977)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 21:28:36, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote
> (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 17:24:04 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>
>>><Aside>
>>>Personally I dislike pinning to the Taskbar. There is no indication in
>>>the Taskbar button if the program is running or not. I see a button,
>>>but can't tell if it is actually running.
>>>...
>>></Aside>
>>
>>
>>Win 7, 8/8.1, and 10 each have a way of indicating whether a pinned task is
>>running or not. With 7/8.x, the icon gets highlighted. With 10, the icon
>>gets underlined.
>>
>>At least, that's what I see here.
>>
> Three (well, four really including the null case) states:
>
> 10: pinned, not running.
> 11: pinned and running.
> 01: running but not pinned.
> 00: neither running nor pinned.
>
> I (W7-32 HP, Classic Shell) see 10 as a square icon - becomes a square
> button when hovered over. I see 11 and 01 as the same: a rectangular
> button with an icon and text beside it. I do not see 00 in the taskbar
> at all, of course. When I close a 11, its taskbar representation returns
> to the square; when I close an 01, it disappears from the taskbar.
>
> From what he describes above, VanguardLH (W7 I presume since he's
> joining in this thread here) sees 10 and 11 as the same (and I'm
> guessing 01 as something else, and 00 not at all, same as me).
>
> In other words, I can't tell if a running program is pinned or not; VLH
> can't tell if a pinned program is running or not.
>
> Very curious!

I generally prefer something more noticeable than an underline to
indicate state. For example, I do NOT rely on a tiny tray icon to tell
me I have new e-mail. I won't notice it until I'm done with whatever
I'm currently doing (and that could take hours), and become idle;
however, my behavior when idle is not to focus my eyes down on the tray
notification area. That's why I have the e-mail client popup a
notification window telling me new e-mail has arrived. The popup is
obvious. A tiny static tray icon is not obvious. Underlining is not
obvious, either, especially since my color scheme is black (black
Taskbar, black desktop) and the highlight color for the underline is not
high contrast. Oh, it has an underline, yep, if I refocus to look at
the button. Easier and more obvious when the button is absent to know
an app is not running. Actually, its the converse: you don't check if
an app is not running, but you do want to know when it is running.
Button present and button present with underline really isn't much of a
change in presentation. Having to look down at a pinned button to see
if there is an underline meaning the app is running is like walking with
you looking down at your feet instead of ahead of you.

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 22:32:09 +0100, in alt.windows7.general, "J. P. Gilliver
(John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>, wrote

>I do indeed have cmd.exe as a pinned (and Quick Launch) function - which
>opens in the directory I normally want (the one where I have
>YouTube-dl.exe stored).

I think that is so cool!
I also pinned my cmd.exe to my taskbar, but have it going to my common sub-directory
for miscellaneous tasks.

BUT......I have written a small two letter batch file (named 'yt' of course) that
at that level the first yt executable it finds is in the system32 sub-directory and
does:
~~~~~~~~
CD c:\youtube-dl
set yt=youtube-dl -f best --socket-timeout 3600 -i
echo %yt%
set prompt=$p_$t_$g
: call c:\!rootstuff\ahk_scripts\cntrlv_cmd.ahk
pause
~~~~~~~~

now after that I am at the youtube-dl containing folder level and the first
executable of "yt" it finds is the youtube-dl.exe(in that directory) -- or -- I can
execute it with boilerplate by the system variable created in the child environment
of that session. etc......
As you see, i originally went for calling an .ahk script from that batch file to
activate control-V for that DOS emulator session but that did not work as a called
script. It works fine from the desktop or the subdirectory I am in if I call up the
gui of the subdirectory by the "explorer" windows executable.
Also youtube-dl has the wonderful audio only -x and --audio-format
arguments/parameters the latter of which i set to .MP3 almost always and i now have
30 3-11 hour pieces of sleep/relaxation music on my phone SD -- added to the Android
desktop for easy choice.

(I finally realized that cmd.exe was just another application and i could open
multiple instances of it so i do not have to wait for one DL to finish before
starting another.)

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 22:32:09 +0100, in alt.windows7.general, "J. P. Gilliver
(John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>, wrote

>I do indeed have cmd.exe as a pinned (and Quick Launch) function - which
>opens in the directory I normally want (the one where I have
>YouTube-dl.exe stored).

On Tue, 5 Oct 2021 20:11:14 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 21:23:58, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote
>(my responses usually follow points raised):
>>On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 13:16:13 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
>><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>Usually, if I right-click on a tile in the taskbar (W7 HP 32 bit,
>>>Classic Shell), "Pin this program to taskbar" is an option.
>>>
>>>But I just discovered that Remove Empty Directories (the utility from
>>>https://www.jonasjohn.de/red.htm) only has "Close window" in that menu.
>>>
>>>Not a great problem - I wasn't really sure I wanted to pin it anyway - I
>>>was just surprised. Any information?
>>
>>I tried to pin RED to the taskbar in the following OS versions:
>>
>>Win 7 - no menu option to directly pin RED to the taskbar, but I pinned a
>>random different application to the taskbar, then I opened Properties for
>>that shortcut and edited it to point to <path>RED2.exe. That worked.
>
>Ingenious!

:-)
It's probably a bit of a hack. I was just playing around.

>I've tried that; I used the calculator. It worked, and made
>an icon (pinned button) in the taskbar which, when clicked, opened RED,
>though it still showed the calculator icon. Though when RED opened, it
>appeared as a normal running-icon button for RED (with its coffee-cup
>icon), leaving the calculator-showing pinned button there _as well_.
>
>I closed RED, then went to change the icon in the properties of the
>shortcut in the QL\UPinned\Taskbar folder (where I'd already changed
>what it opened); the pinned button in the taskbar now showed the right
>icon. But when I try clicking on it, it says something like "not found;
>would yo like me to delete?"; when I said yes, the button disappeared
>from the taskbar - but the shortcut is still there is QL\UP\T!
>
>I'll see if it returns next time I restart Explorer!

I saw some icon weirdness as well, but I cleaned everything up at that
point so I'm not sure what would have happened next.

--

Char Jackson