I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the
last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know
if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a good bet?

There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they
seem to be out of date and abandoned now.

Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to
make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic
case seems to be cracking up now.

TW

On 28/12/2021 12:57, TimW wrote:
> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the
> last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
> incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know
> if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a good
> bet?
>
> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they
> seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>
> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to
> make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic
> case seems to be cracking up now.
>

Another Q:
do the Dell laptop names have any meaning? I haven't figured it out if
they have. Latitude, Inspiron etc., more importantly to me is one range
a better option for mint than another?

TW

On 12/28/21 7:57 AM, this is what TimW wrote:
> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
> incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a
> good bet?
>
> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>
> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the
> plastic case seems to be cracking up now.
>
> TW
I have had 2 (maybe 3, can't remember) Dells in the past years. Can remember if 3 because the last so long, like 5-7 years. Anyway they
all have been Inspiron types, 15.6" screens. My current one is an i7 that has told me to never buy an i7 again, the price isn't worth the
results.

My last one died due to spilling water into it. I usually stand it up between the couch and end table and I knocked a drink off the table
and it ran down on the laptop. Fried the mobo.

Been running Linux on all of them with no hardware issues, except the last one has a thumbprint button and won't work in Linux, no driver
for this model of thumbprint reader.
--
Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.2 64bit, Dell Inspiron 5570 laptop
Quad Core i7-8550U, 16G Memory, 512G SSD, 750G & 1TB HDDs

On 12/28/2021 8:06 AM, TimW wrote:
> On 28/12/2021 12:57, TimW wrote:
>> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation, incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a good bet?
>>
>> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>>
>> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic case seems to be cracking up now.
>>
>
>
> Another Q:
> do the Dell laptop names have any meaning? I haven't figured it out if they have. Latitude, Inspiron etc., more importantly to me is one range a better option for mint than another?
>
> TW

The branding indicates "Home" or "Business".

Business may indicate a few things. It could indicate Intel Management Engine,
for remote administration. If a business machine is crashed, you can reach
in through the wired NIC and reset it. When you buy a refurb, this should be
disabled (but the control of it stinks).

In addition, business machines may support encryption or the password scheme
can be augmented. On a regular (cheap) desktop, if you pull out the CR2032
battery with all power off, the password gets reset. On "business" machines,
the password is stored in a 2KB EEPROM and pulling the battery does nothing.
This makes the machine more secure.

If you bought a stolen business laptop, and turned it on, it could present
a BIOS level password prompt and you'd be screwed. Schemes like this, you also
have to be careful, because an office joker could go to your business laptop,
set a password on it, and then you can't get into it.

Wiki can tell you more about the basic classification of the machines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Latitude

In terms of nuisance items, Broadcom Wifi can present a challenge because
of the blacklisting of drivers necessary to get the Wifi working. An expensive
business machine could have an Intel Wifi. Sometimes Centrino branding
is used, as an example of a useless descriptor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino

Wifi can be modular, and a Wifi module can be changed out. However,
on some machines, the BIOS may refuse to add entries to the tables
it passes to the OS, if an "Intel" Wifi is replaced with some other
manufacturers product. It's possible this exclusionary (and illegal)
behavior is part of Centrino branding.

So yeah, swim in laptops, enjoy yourself, but remember that
sharks prowl the waters too. You can always find stupid unnecessary
stuff in a used laptop. Like Computrace for stolen items.

Paul

On 12/28/21 8:06 AM, this is what Big Al wrote:
> On 12/28/21 7:57 AM, this is what TimW wrote:
>> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed
>> installation, incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells
>> are generally a good bet?
>>
>> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>>
>> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the
>> plastic case seems to be cracking up now.
>>
>> TW
> I have had 2 (maybe 3, can't remember) Dells in the past years.   Can remember if 3 because the last so long, like 5-7 years.   Anyway they
> all have been Inspiron types, 15.6" screens.   My current one is an i7 that has told me to never buy an i7 again, the price isn't worth the
> results.
>
> My last one died due to spilling water into it.   I usually stand it up between the couch and end table and I knocked a drink off the table
> and it ran down on the laptop.  Fried the mobo.
>
> Been running Linux on all of them with no hardware issues, except the last one has a thumbprint button and won't work in Linux, no driver
> for this model of thumbprint reader.

Reading Paul's reply and again reading yours, I did realize that I was running Mint 18.3 when I got this machine and the wi-fi card "Intel
Wireless 3165" did not have drivers in 18.3. So I 'had' to move to Mint 19 to get it to work. A minor fix but still had to be fixed.

--
Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.2 64bit, Dell Inspiron 5570 laptop
Quad Core i7-8550U, 16G Memory, 512G SSD, 750G & 1TB HDDs

On 28/12/2021 15:54, Paul wrote:
[...]
>
> Wiki can tell you more about the basic classification of the machines.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Latitude
>
[...]

Thanks, useful. I hadn't thought of looking at wikipedia for model specs
and listings.
TW

On 12/28/21 1:57 PM, TimW wrote:
> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the
> last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
> incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know
> if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a good
> bet?
>
> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they
> seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>
> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to
> make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic
> case seems to be cracking up now.
>
> TW

FWIW, the company where my wife works uses Dell for many years.
The service is non existing and hardware failures happens far too often.
Other then that it's fine. :-)
I would say, never Dell again.

--
“The further a society drift from the truth,
the more it will hate those who speak it”

George Orwell

On 28/12/2021 12:57, TimW wrote:
> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the
> last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
> incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know
> if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a good bet?
>
> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they
> seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>
> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to
> make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic
> case seems to be cracking up now.

Have you considered an independent make? I bought a Clevo seven years
ago and it's been very reliable. They are often used as bare-bones
chassis for other independent brands, and usually come without an OS
pre-installed

--

Jeff

On 12/31/2021 6:21 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 28/12/2021 12:57, TimW wrote:
>> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the
>> last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
>> incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know
>> if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a good bet?
>>
>> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they
>> seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>>
>> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to
>> make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic
>> case seems to be cracking up now.
>
> Have you considered an independent make? I bought a Clevo seven years ago and it's been very reliable. They are often used as bare-bones chassis for other independent brands, and usually come without an OS pre-installed
>

That's an ODM and they don't sell directly to the public.

An OEM buys from an ODM, and does the retailing. For example,
I can get a Clevo at a Eurocom here. Eurocom happens to put
a Retail OS on their machines, rather than making a custom OS
like Dell would.

Laptops used to be built like tanks. There was a time, when
a machine with a weak CPU, would stick to you like flypaper.
You couldn't get rid of it, because, well, it was still working :-)

Different things fail on them now. The hinges are better now.
The power connector uses a separate sub-assembly, and the
mainboard no longer cracks. But the keyboards are shit, and
you get to learn all the keyboards on Ebay "are the wrong language".
The keyboards end up that way, because the assembly isn't very
deep, there is very little key travel, and the thing doesn't
seem to be all that robust as a result. A thicker laptop might
leave more room for a keyboard, but perhaps they don't bother
redesigning the keyboard when so many thin ones are available.

You must check there are at least three USB connectors on the unit.
Some of the higher end units, will shortchange you. The three
connectors are for: mouse, boot key, external disk enclosure

Paul

On 31/12/2021 15:22, Paul wrote:
> On 12/31/2021 6:21 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 28/12/2021 12:57, TimW wrote:
>>> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the
>>> last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
>>> incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know
>>> if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a good bet?
>>>
>>> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they
>>> seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>>>
>>> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to
>>> make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic
>>> case seems to be cracking up now.
>>
>> Have you considered an independent make? I bought a Clevo seven years ago and it's been very reliable. They are often used as bare-bones chassis for other independent brands, and usually come without an OS pre-installed
>>
>
> That's an ODM and they don't sell directly to the public.

See bottom of <https://clevo-computer.com/en/hot-offers/?p=2>, bottom of
<https://clevo-computer.com/en/hot-offers/?p=3>, and
<https://clevo-computer.com/en/custom/index/sCustom/9>

I do assume, however, that it's either a Clevo company or Clevo has
allowed them to use their name.

> An OEM buys from an ODM, and does the retailing. For example,
> I can get a Clevo at a Eurocom here. Eurocom happens to put
> a Retail OS on their machines, rather than making a custom OS
> like Dell would.

Yes, I'd seen the Eurocom pages. I think clevo-computer is an ODM/OEM
who sell mainly Clevo machines, although they appear to sell a few other
machines
(<https://clevo-computer.com/en/laptops-configurator/graphics-card/with-nvidia-geforce-rtx/6285/asus-rog-zephyrus-g14-eclipse-gray-ryzen-7-5800hs-nvidia-rtx-3050-ga401qc-k2123t>)

My current machine is a Clevo P150EM, bought from Novatech here in the
UK. It's branded "Novatech" on the case, and when booted only the name
"Novatech" appears on the boot screen. It's only when I ask Mint to list
the machine's hardware does it show it's a Clevo!

> Laptops used to be built like tanks. There was a time, when
> a machine with a weak CPU, would stick to you like flypaper.
> You couldn't get rid of it, because, well, it was still working :-)
>
> Different things fail on them now. The hinges are better now.
> The power connector uses a separate sub-assembly, and the
> mainboard no longer cracks. But the keyboards are shit, and
> you get to learn all the keyboards on Ebay "are the wrong language".
> The keyboards end up that way, because the assembly isn't very
> deep, there is very little key travel, and the thing doesn't
> seem to be all that robust as a result. A thicker laptop might
> leave more room for a keyboard, but perhaps they don't bother
> redesigning the keyboard when so many thin ones are available.
>
> You must check there are at least three USB connectors on the unit.
> Some of the higher end units, will shortchange you. The three
> connectors are for: mouse, boot key, external disk enclosure
>
> Paul

My laptop is a bit of an oddball. For its time (It's a late 2012
machine) it had a pretty good processor (i5-3230M) with 8Gb ram, hi-spec
graphics card (Radeon 7970M with 2Gb ram), and a multicoloured backlit
keyboard (only blue is available with Linux; Windows is required for
full colour) which suggested a gaming machine. It also came with a
fingerprint reader and a mini-IEEE 1394a port, which suggested a
business machine. It has three USB3 ports (one combined as an eSATA
port), and a USB2 port. It had no OS installed. The LH trackpad button
is now showing signs of wear, but other than that it's fine.

--

Jeff

On 31/12/2021 11:21, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 28/12/2021 12:57, TimW wrote:
>> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the
>> last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
>> incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know
>> if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a
>> good bet?
>>
>> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they
>> seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>>
>> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to
>> make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic
>> case seems to be cracking up now.
>
> Have you considered an independent make? I bought a Clevo seven years
> ago and it's been very reliable. They are often used as bare-bones
> chassis for other independent brands, and usually come without an OS
> pre-installed
>

I have often looked at these here in the uk, with a big reduction in
price if bought without the OS.

https://www.novatech.co.uk/laptop/business/

Being me though, I end up getting something of ebay with all the risks
and wasted time that entails

TW

On 1/1/22 6:56 AM, this is what TimW wrote:
> On 31/12/2021 11:21, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 28/12/2021 12:57, TimW wrote:
>>> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the
>>> last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
>>> incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know
>>> if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a good bet?
>>>
>>> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they
>>> seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>>>
>>> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to
>>> make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic
>>> case seems to be cracking up now.
>>
>> Have you considered an independent make? I bought a Clevo seven years ago and it's been very reliable. They are often used as bare-bones
>> chassis for other independent brands, and usually come without an OS pre-installed
>>
>
> I have often looked at these here in the uk, with a big reduction in price if bought without the OS.
>
> https://www.novatech.co.uk/laptop/business/
>
> Being me though, I end up getting something of ebay with all the risks and wasted time that entails
>
> TW
Lame site. The first (and only) pc is and i3. I would think maybe they would show you 2 or 3 samples. Not sure a business would want
an i3 machine.

--
Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.2 64bit, Dell Inspiron 5570 laptop
Quad Core i7-8550U, 16G Memory, 512G SSD, 750G & 1TB HDDs

On 01/01/2022 12:29, Big Al wrote:
> On 1/1/22 6:56 AM, this is what TimW wrote:
>> On 31/12/2021 11:21, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 28/12/2021 12:57, TimW wrote:
>>>> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the
>>>> last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
>>>> incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know
>>>> if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a good bet?
>>>>
>>>> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they
>>>> seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>>>>
>>>> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to
>>>> make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic
>>>> case seems to be cracking up now.
>>>
>>> Have you considered an independent make? I bought a Clevo seven years ago and it's been very reliable. They are often used as bare-bones
>>> chassis for other independent brands, and usually come without an OS pre-installed
>>>
>>
>> I have often looked at these here in the uk, with a big reduction in price if bought without the OS.
>>
>> https://www.novatech.co.uk/laptop/business/
>>
>> Being me though, I end up getting something of ebay with all the risks and wasted time that entails
>>
>> TW
> Lame site. The first (and only) pc is and i3. I would think maybe they would show you 2 or 3 samples. Not sure a business would want
> an i3 machine.

I think the site is playing up.

Novatech is where I bought my "rebadged" Clevo in a sale. I don't know
if they still use Clevo or not, but they still make customised PCs and
laptops to order. If for example, you go to
<https://www.novatech.co.uk/laptop/business/>, all it shows is a
low-range nSpire N1685 (with an i3 processor). Now click on the
drop-down arrow under "Filter" at top right, and several options appear.
I must admit there used to be a much larger range available, but perhaps
at present it just reflects the difficulty in obtaining chips and other
parts from China.

--

Jeff

On 01/01/2022 11:56, TimW wrote:
> On 31/12/2021 11:21, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 28/12/2021 12:57, TimW wrote:
>>> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the
>>> last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
>>> incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know
>>> if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a
>>> good bet?
>>>
>>> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they
>>> seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>>>
>>> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to
>>> make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic
>>> case seems to be cracking up now.
>>
>> Have you considered an independent make? I bought a Clevo seven years
>> ago and it's been very reliable. They are often used as bare-bones
>> chassis for other independent brands, and usually come without an OS
>> pre-installed
>>
>
> I have often looked at these here in the uk, with a big reduction in
> price if bought without the OS.
>
> https://www.novatech.co.uk/laptop/business/

See my reply to Paul. I got my Novatech laptop as a "Clearance" model. I
reckon it was about half the price it had been when first available
perhaps 12 - 18 months previously. Unfortunately, I haven't seen
clearance models there for some time.

>
> Being me though, I end up getting something of ebay with all the risks
> and wasted time that entails

I've never bought anything from eBay!

--

Jeff

On 2022-01-01, TimW <timw@nothanks.com> wrote:
> On 31/12/2021 11:21, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 28/12/2021 12:57, TimW wrote:
>>> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the
>>> last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
>>> incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know
>>> if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a
>>> good bet?
>>>
>>> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they
>>> seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>>>
>>> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to
>>> make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic
>>> case seems to be cracking up now.
>>
>> Have you considered an independent make? I bought a Clevo seven years
>> ago and it's been very reliable. They are often used as bare-bones
>> chassis for other independent brands, and usually come without an OS
>> pre-installed
>>
>
> I have often looked at these here in the uk, with a big reduction in
> price if bought without the OS.
>
> https://www.novatech.co.uk/laptop/business/
>
> Being me though, I end up getting something of ebay with all the risks
> and wasted time that entails

In the U.S. Dell laptops (XPS and Latitude business machines) are plentiful
and inexpensive so are the parts for them. And they're easy to work on.
Often they are sold without hard drives. So, buy an inexpensive SSD, more
RAM and you're got an inexpensive and very usable laptop. (Unless you're a
game player, which I'm not.)

--
Freedom. Use it or lose it.

TimW <timw@nothanks.com> writes:
> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the
> last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
> incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know
> if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a good bet?
>
> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they
> seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>
> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to
> make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic
> case seems to be cracking up now.
>
For what it's worth, I've been using Lenovo laptops for Linux since about
2010. But when I customise them on the web-ordering page, I make sure to
specify Intel peripheral chips and devices wherever I can. So far so good.
I haven't had any trouble at all. Though my newish ThinkPad P53 has a
flatter keyboard that isn't as pleasant to use as the keyboard on my (still
quite usable, coming-up-for-12-year-old) ThinkPad T410 that I have taken with
me all over the World.

Jack
--
Why do meteorites always land in craters?

On 31/12/2021 15:22, Paul wrote:
> You must check there are at least three USB connectors on the unit.
> Some of the higher end units, will shortchange you. The three
> connectors are for: mouse, boot key, external disk enclosure
>
>    Paul
========
Also ensure that there is an Ethernet (RG-45) socket , sadly not always
on the veeery thin laptops. Check that thoroughly when buying on-line

Frank in county Wicklow -Ireland

On 12/28/21 06:57, TimW wrote:
> I have been pleased with a couple of Dell laptops running mint in the
> last few years. I have also had a few failures - failed installation,
> incompatible hardware with other brands, HP for instance. I don't know
> if that's typical, did I read somewhere that Dells are generally a good
> bet?
>
> There used to be lists on the web of laptops good for linux but they
> seem to be out of date and abandoned now.
>
> Currently a Latitude E7450 is a good machine but have never been able to
> make the sound work with Zoom (obv used a lot recently) and the plastic
> case seems to be cracking up now.
>
> TW

I have a friend who used to work for HP and he says they are no longer
the top of the line company that they used to be.

As one who used to always build his own machines, when my wife needed
one maybe six months ago, I found out that I could buy one off the shelf
for less money that I could build myself.

My first choice would have been Lenovo but I bought a Dell instead as
the ones they had in stock had better specs.

I have worked on many machines over the years and my only complaint with
Dell is that they all too often have proprietary PSUs