Hi,

I need a filter that runs on the Gmail/spam folder, and not on the
Gmail/INBOX folder.

I can't. I can only do filter on the entire Gmail thing.

is there a trick?

The purpose is to move some mail that Gmail considers spam back to the
Inbox, automatically.

No, filtering directly at gmail web doesn't work.

No, configuring in gmail to not mark as spam mail that is in my address
book doesn't work.

I need to bypass gmail stupidiness.

But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only on one
folder, which is not the inbox.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> I need a filter that runs on the Gmail/spam folder, and not on the
> Gmail/INBOX folder.
> I can't. I can only do filter on the entire Gmail thing.
>
> is there a trick?
> No, filtering directly at gmail web doesn't work.

Whitelisting.
https://support.google.com/a/answer/60752?hl=en

> I need to bypass gmail stupidiness.

Get another provider.

> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only on one
> folder, which is not the inbox.

You simply can't. Every mailclient i know can only filter the inbox.

On 2023-12-29 02:04, Frank Miller wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> I need a filter that runs on the Gmail/spam folder, and not on the
>> Gmail/INBOX folder.
>> I can't. I can only do filter on the entire Gmail thing.
>>
>> is there a trick?
>> No, filtering directly at gmail web doesn't work.
>
> Whitelisting.
> https://support.google.com/a/answer/60752?hl=en

Which says:

"Google Workspace gives Gmail administrators"... Well, I am not the
admin. It is plain gmail, not gmail for groups.

>
>> I need to bypass gmail stupidiness.
>
> Get another provider.

Can't.

>> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only on one
>> folder, which is not the inbox.
>
> You simply can't. Every mailclient i know can only filter the inbox.

I know some that can.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 12/28/2023 3:55 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I need a filter that runs on the Gmail/spam folder, and not on the
> Gmail/INBOX folder.
>
> I can't. I can only do filter on the entire Gmail thing.
>
> is there a trick?
>
> The purpose is to move some mail that Gmail considers spam back to the
> Inbox, automatically.
>
> No, filtering directly at gmail web doesn't work.
>
> No, configuring in gmail to not mark as spam mail that is in my address
> book doesn't work.
>
> I need to bypass gmail stupidiness.
>
> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only on one
> folder, which is not the inbox.

Had a similar problem with Charter, my ISP. The only way I could solve
the problem was to totally disable their spam detection of my emails and
take it over myself. Their web based platform refused to follow the
rules I would place on it for this and also for things I didn't want to
see. Eventually, I just gave up, turned off their ability, and do it
myself. Don't know if GMail gives you that option, but it might be your
only choice.

--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> I need a filter that runs on the Gmail/spam folder, and not on the
> Gmail/INBOX folder.
>
> I can't. I can only do filter on the entire Gmail thing.
>
> is there a trick?
>
> The purpose is to move some mail that Gmail considers spam back to the
> Inbox, automatically.
>
> No, filtering directly at gmail web doesn't work.
>
> No, configuring in gmail to not mark as spam mail that is in my address
> book doesn't work.
>
> I need to bypass gmail stupidiness.
>
> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only on one
> folder, which is not the inbox.

Client- and server-side user-defined filters only get exercised on new
messages that are delivered to the Inbox folder. If pre-processing at
the server, like spam filtering, already moved a message to a different
folder, then neither the server-side filters you define in your Gmail
account nor the client-side filters in a local e-mail client will see
the new message in the Inbox folder.

Unlike other e-mail services, Gmail provides no option to disable their
anti-spam filtering. Else, the solution would be to disable server-side
spam filtering, and rely on your own server- or client-side rules, or
incorporates client-side anti-spam measures (within the client or via
proxy tools that interrogate the e-mail traffic) to perform your own
spam filtering.

Quite often I've wished to disable spam filtering in my Gmail account.
Alas, no such capability. You're always stuck with their spam filtering
with their free accounts. As Frank mentioned, there is a whitelist you
could use, but presumably that is exercised before Gmail applies its
spam filters. However, the safe sender whitelist in Gmail requires you
pay for a Google Workspace account as you need admin privs on the
account to effect your own filtering choices.

https://support.google.com/a/answer/2368132

Google Workspace is not free. All their pay plans are subscriptionware,
and are priced per seat (per user).

https://workspace.google.com/pricing

If you have need for some of the features of Google Workspace, of which
admin control is one, then it might be worth paying for it. But the
cost is rather pricey just to overcome false positives with their
server-side spam filtering.

I use Gmail only as a backup or secondary account which means I
sometimes have to suffer with false positives. My primary e-mail
providers are Microsoft (Hotmail/Outlook.com) and my ISP for which both
offer safe sender whitelists. Microsoft (for a free account) offers no
option to disable their server-side spam filter, but they do have a
server-side safe sender whitelist where I currently have 14 entries to
overcome false positive's from their server-side spam filter. My ISP
has both a server-side safe sender whitelist, or I could disable their
server-side spam filtering to do all that client-side.

Google knows what is best for you even when they are wrong.

Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-12-29 02:04, Frank Miller wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
[..snip..]
>>> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only on one
>>> folder, which is not the inbox.
>>
>> You simply can't. Every mailclient i know can only filter the inbox.
>
> I know some that can.

Which ones?

Frank Miller <miller@posteo.ee> wrote:

> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> Frank Miller wrote:
>>
>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only
>>>> on one folder, which is not the inbox.
>>>
>>> You simply can't. Every mailclient i know can only filter the inbox.
>>
>> I know some that can.
>
> Which ones?

In addition, which ones that automatically execute their rules on every
automatic mail poll, including IMAP PUSH, and *not* when you manually
run the rules? Having to manually run rules after every mail poll means
you are performing the same action as if you yourself dragged e-mails
between folders.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

> Frank Miller <miller@posteo.ee> wrote:
>
>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> Frank Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only
>>>>> on one folder, which is not the inbox.
>>>>
>>>> You simply can't. Every mailclient i know can only filter the inbox.
>>>
>>> I know some that can.
>>
>> Which ones?
>
> In addition, which ones that automatically execute their rules on every
> automatic mail poll, including IMAP PUSH, and *not* when you manually
> run the rules? Having to manually run rules after every mail poll means
> you are performing the same action as if you yourself dragged e-mails
> between folders.

There are Tbird add-ons that can provide additional rules for managing
messages, but they are manually ran, like:

https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/nostalgy_ng/?src=search

You can define rules in it to move a message, say, out of the Spam
folder to the Inbox folder, but not until you run the add-on. It
doesn't wait until after each mail poll, and after somehow determining
when Tbird has completed exercising all its rules, before it performs
post-processing on items already deposited into folder to change where
their items are moved.

If you run your own scripts to do e-mail, you could define your own
rules that trigger on new items showing up in the Inbox folder to run
its own rules, and then run more rules (post-processing) to move items
around after they've already been deposited by the on-poll rules. It's
possible, but, like Frank mentions, I haven't see a packaged e-mail
client that does all that. That doesn't mean one does not exist, only
that I don't recall ever using or trialing one that incorporates
post-processing to re-sort newly retrieved messages.

https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/shedule-filters/?src=search

Didn't bother to translate to know all what this addon does. Seems to
run filters on a schedule, so maybe you could define filters in it that
will run at scheduled times. However, I don't see that as automatic
post-processing where the add-on waits for completion of a mail poll
(all mail sessions closed) for every mail poll, waits for Tbird to
complete exercising its own filters, and then runs filters defined in
this add-on.

https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/auto-filter-timer/?src=search

Another scheduler to run post-processing filters. "automatically
triggered at a user-defined frequency" means the post-processing is not
after a mail poll ends and after Tbird is done exercising its rules. No
matter what frequency you define, the add-on's post-processing could be
after when you visit Tbird to look at your e-mails. If they allow a
frequency of 1 second, likely post-processing filters running during a
mail session or while Tbird is exercising its rules would cause
conflicts or unwanted side effects.

The only time post-processing has value to correct false positives with
server-side spam filtering in after EVERY mail session and after Tbird
is done exercising any rules defined within it, not at some fixed time
interval. You also don't want scheduled post-processing occurring
during a mail session, or while Tbird is exercising its rules, so
scheduled by time means post-processing will step atop mail sessions and
Tbird rule execution.

The gist of countering false positives with server-side spam filtering
is you have to disable server-side spam filtering (and do all the spam
filtering yourself), or the e-mail provider has a safe sender whitelist.
Neither option is available with Gmail.

You could use a web browser to log into Gmail's webmail client to mark
the false positive as Not Spam trying to get Google to update its
server-side spam filtering, but you'll end up doing that hundreds of
time assuming Google even bothers to trigger reclassification when
moving items out of the Spam folder. I've seen users report doing this
over and over, and the item still gets dumped in the Spam folder.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I need a filter that runs on the Gmail/spam folder, and not on the
>> Gmail/INBOX folder.
>>
>> I can't. I can only do filter on the entire Gmail thing.
>>
>> is there a trick?
>>
>> The purpose is to move some mail that Gmail considers spam back to the
>> Inbox, automatically.
>>
>> No, filtering directly at gmail web doesn't work.
>>
>> No, configuring in gmail to not mark as spam mail that is in my address
>> book doesn't work.
>>
>> I need to bypass gmail stupidiness.
>>
>> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only on one
>> folder, which is not the inbox.
>
> Client- and server-side user-defined filters only get exercised on new
> messages that are delivered to the Inbox folder. If pre-processing at
> the server, like spam filtering, already moved a message to a different
> folder, then neither the server-side filters you define in your Gmail
> account nor the client-side filters in a local e-mail client will see
> the new message in the Inbox folder.
>
> Unlike other e-mail services, Gmail provides no option to disable their
> anti-spam filtering. Else, the solution would be to disable server-side
> spam filtering, and rely on your own server- or client-side rules, or
> incorporates client-side anti-spam measures (within the client or via
> proxy tools that interrogate the e-mail traffic) to perform your own
> spam filtering.
>
> Quite often I've wished to disable spam filtering in my Gmail account.
> Alas, no such capability. You're always stuck with their spam filtering
> with their free accounts. As Frank mentioned, there is a whitelist you
> could use, but presumably that is exercised before Gmail applies its
> spam filters. However, the safe sender whitelist in Gmail requires you
> pay for a Google Workspace account as you need admin privs on the
> account to effect your own filtering choices.
>
> https://support.google.com/a/answer/2368132
>
> Google Workspace is not free. All their pay plans are subscriptionware,
> and are priced per seat (per user).
>
> https://workspace.google.com/pricing
>
> If you have need for some of the features of Google Workspace, of which
> admin control is one, then it might be worth paying for it. But the
> cost is rather pricey just to overcome false positives with their
> server-side spam filtering.
>
> I use Gmail only as a backup or secondary account which means I
> sometimes have to suffer with false positives. My primary e-mail
> providers are Microsoft (Hotmail/Outlook.com) and my ISP for which both
> offer safe sender whitelists. Microsoft (for a free account) offers no
> option to disable their server-side spam filter, but they do have a
> server-side safe sender whitelist where I currently have 14 entries to
> overcome false positive's from their server-side spam filter. My ISP
> has both a server-side safe sender whitelist, or I could disable their
> server-side spam filtering to do all that client-side.
>
> Google knows what is best for you even when they are wrong.

I found a vaguely described option in my Gmail account settings that may
have some promise.

Settings -> Inbox -> Filtered mail
Override filters - Include important messages in the inbox that may have
been filtered out.

Requires "smart features" be enabled. I disabled all those. Just more
crap screwing up my e-mail. The above is all they describe about the
option. I did not find a Google article describing it. No idea how
Google decides which are "important messages" to keep in the Inbox.

Maybe it's the equivalent of a safe senders whitelist that other e-mail
providers have, but I couldn't find just what the hell this option does.

Am 29.12.23 um 03:21 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
> On 2023-12-29 02:04, Frank Miller wrote:
>> You simply can't. Every mailclient i know can only filter the inbox.
>
>
> I know some that can.

Only a few. Evolution on Linux can. TB or BB not.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 2023-12-29 05:13, VanguardLH wrote:
> Frank Miller <miller@posteo.ee> wrote:
>
>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> Frank Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only
>>>>> on one folder, which is not the inbox.
>>>>
>>>> You simply can't. Every mailclient i know can only filter the inbox.
>>>
>>> I know some that can.
>>
>> Which ones?
>
> In addition, which ones that automatically execute their rules on every
> automatic mail poll, including IMAP PUSH, and *not* when you manually
> run the rules? Having to manually run rules after every mail poll means
> you are performing the same action as if you yourself dragged e-mails
> between folders.

For example, Alpine.

I could also concoct a cron job, maybe with imapsync.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-12-29 03:49, sticks wrote:
> On 12/28/2023 3:55 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I need a filter that runs on the Gmail/spam folder, and not on the
>> Gmail/INBOX folder.
>>
>> I can't. I can only do filter on the entire Gmail thing.
>>
>> is there a trick?
>>
>> The purpose is to move some mail that Gmail considers spam back to the
>> Inbox, automatically.
>>
>> No, filtering directly at gmail web doesn't work.
>>
>> No, configuring in gmail to not mark as spam mail that is in my
>> address book doesn't work.
>>
>> I need to bypass gmail stupidiness.
>>
>> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only on
>> one folder, which is not the inbox.
>
> Had a similar problem with Charter, my ISP.  The only way I could solve
> the problem was to totally disable their spam detection of my emails and
> take it over myself.  Their web based platform refused to follow the
> rules I would place on it for this and also for things I didn't want to
> see.  Eventually, I just gave up, turned off their ability, and do it
> myself.  Don't know if GMail gives you that option, but it might be your
> only choice.

Yes, I did that with GMX.

Gmail detection is quite good, but there is a developer in the XFS mail
list who gmail insist to classify as spammer no matter what. I don't
know if I can totally disable spam filtering in gmail, and that list
does have spam that I want to clean out.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 2023-12-29 05:13, VanguardLH wrote:
>> Frank Miller <miller@posteo.ee> wrote:
>>
>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Frank Miller wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only
>>>>>> on one folder, which is not the inbox.
>>>>>
>>>>> You simply can't. Every mailclient i know can only filter the inbox.
>>>>
>>>> I know some that can.
>>>
>>> Which ones?
>>
>> In addition, which ones that automatically execute their rules on every
>> automatic mail poll, including IMAP PUSH, and *not* when you manually
>> run the rules? Having to manually run rules after every mail poll means
>> you are performing the same action as if you yourself dragged e-mails
>> between folders.
>
> For example, Alpine.
>
> I could also concoct a cron job, maybe with imapsync.

https://alpineapp.email/ is a mess. Eventually I noticed a link to
https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/filters/index.html.

Every time Alpine opens a folder, for each message in that folder it
will scan to check if any of the filters apply to the message, if it
does it will execute it and move on to the next message, where the
cycle will repeat again. Filters are also executed every time that new
mail arrives to the folder (if the folder is already open), or if the
filter depended on its status (message is new, answered), when the
folder is about to be closed.

Other than filters automatically exercised after a mail session, any
post-processing of filters is event driven, specifically when opening a
folder. When you open a folder, filters for that folder get exercised.
So, the server moves a message into the Spam folder, you see a new
message arrive in the Spam folder, you open the Spam folder, but there
is no message there, because filters on that folder got exercised to
move the message back to the Inbox. Seems confusing to be told there is
a message in the Spam folder only not to find one there when you open
that folder. Plus that is user-initiated post-processing, not automated
post-processing. You have to open the folder yourself.

Every filter has two parts, the conditions that activate the filter
(e.g. the message is from your boss) and the action to be taken if the
conditions are satisfied (e.g. move it to the folder "work").

In a filter's condition(s), can you specify which folder for the scope
of the filter? That is, can you specify a filter only acts on the Spam
folder to move false positives there back to the Inbox folder? If so,
will that filter fire after a mail session, or only when you open the
Spam folder?

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 2023-12-29 03:49, sticks wrote:
>> On 12/28/2023 3:55 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I need a filter that runs on the Gmail/spam folder, and not on the
>>> Gmail/INBOX folder.
>>>
>>> I can't. I can only do filter on the entire Gmail thing.
>>>
>>> is there a trick?
>>>
>>> The purpose is to move some mail that Gmail considers spam back to the
>>> Inbox, automatically.
>>>
>>> No, filtering directly at gmail web doesn't work.
>>>
>>> No, configuring in gmail to not mark as spam mail that is in my
>>> address book doesn't work.
>>>
>>> I need to bypass gmail stupidiness.
>>>
>>> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only on
>>> one folder, which is not the inbox.
>>
>> Had a similar problem with Charter, my ISP.  The only way I could solve
>> the problem was to totally disable their spam detection of my emails and
>> take it over myself.  Their web based platform refused to follow the
>> rules I would place on it for this and also for things I didn't want to
>> see.  Eventually, I just gave up, turned off their ability, and do it
>> myself.  Don't know if GMail gives you that option, but it might be your
>> only choice.
>
> Yes, I did that with GMX.
>
> Gmail detection is quite good, but there is a developer in the XFS mail
> list who gmail insist to classify as spammer no matter what. I don't
> know if I can totally disable spam filtering in gmail, and that list
> does have spam that I want to clean out.

Developer.
XFS mail list.

Might the Gmail account be for company use? If so, maybe you could
convince to pay for Google Workspace.

If you're on some mailing list, couldn't you update your membership to
point to a different e-mail provider that does have a safe senders
whitelist feature?

Have you looked at the headers to see what, if any, anti-spam headers
are listed? Might clue in why the sender is getting blacklisted.

Is it just one sender, or anyone using the mailing list where you
receive a copy of the bulk mailing sent out through the mailing list? I
can't see anyone using a mailing list to send out, say, notifications
would get targeted alone since the mailing list is always the same
sender, so anyone using the mailing list would be seen as the sender of
those e-mails.

Is the problematic sender using MS Outlook, or using Word to send a
message via Outlook? Or is he using an e-mail client that doesn't
pollute the e-mail with tons of Word-specific headers? Way too long
since I last used MS Outlook to remember if it had an option to strip
out all the Word-specific headers.

Are there TNEF attachments (win[mail].dat) in the sender's e-mail? If
so, have the sender format using plain-text or HTML their messages, and
not use RTF (Rich-Text Format). There have been vulnerabilities
(BadWinMail Exploit) with TNEF attachments, so possibly the mail server
is flagging those messages as spam although it may not be spam, as such,
but a message with an iffy attachment. An exploit packs code inside the
winmail.dat file which gets executed when Outlook renders the
winmail.dat. You may not be using MS Outlook, but servers don't know
and don't care what clients are accessing messages on the server. It's
an old exploit back around 2015, so Outlook should've been patched by
now, but servers might simply consider any messages with winmail.dat to
be suspect.

Is this sender sending you boilerplate e-mails? Or using MailMerge?
Those e-mails have little unique in them. They might mention your name,
or a few bytes that personalize the copy of their bulk message, but the
vast majority of the message is the same content they send to every
other user in the mailing list or mail merge. Some e-mail providers use
DCC (Distributed Checksum Clearinghouse) to gauge if messages are bulk
mail, and consider bulk mails the same as spam. I've seen this happen
with churches that send out newsletters via mail merge, so they are seen
as sending out bulk mail. If you use DCC, like in an add-on or local
mail proxy, you can set the threshold at which the same message sent to
N recipients will trigger a flag the message is spam. If an e-mail
provider uses DCC, they set the threshold for when too many of the
nearly same messages are considered bulk mail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Checksum_Clearinghouse

E-mail providers may employ something similar to DCC where they see to
how many recipients get the same message from a sender at the same
e-mail provider. They may not care you sent out 500 messages that day,
but they might consider you a spammer if you sent 500 of the same
message to recipients at the same e-mail provider.

Even if the body isn't spammy, does the sender put a lot of spammy
looking crap in his signatures, if he uses sigs?

Gmail gives some info how their server-side spam filtering works, but
they don't give details since they don't want to provide a tutorial for
spammers to figure out how to subvert's Gmail's spam filtering.

https://workspace.google.com/blog/identity-and-security/an-overview-of-gmails-spam-filters

E-mail providers often use DNSBLs (DNS blacklists). Those list IP
addresses of known spam sources. The good ones should have a flooring
function that expires old records since spammers move around, and most
IP addresses are dynamically assigned to users, and bindings can change
after they expire (although DHCP servers will often reuse an IP address
from their pool for the same customer for a bind created soon after one
expired and an unbind, but that's not guaranteed). You might want to
check if your sender is on a DNSBL. Go to:

https://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx

and enter the sender's IP address (should be in the first Received
header that is not used between servers internal to the source e-mail
service). Received headers are prepended as a message hops between mail
service, so the topmost one is the last one, and the bottommost one is
the 1st one. For example, my IPv4 address is on the SORBS and Spamhaus
Zen blacklists. Don't know why. SORBS is very slow at updating their
blacklist. I've had to contact them to get their records straight.
They claim to periodically (daily maybe) update their blacklist, but I
found their bot too often misses some records. Since I get a dynamic IP
address from my ISP, likely someone had it before my current bind who
spammed or bulk mailed using it. SORBS DUHL where I'm blacklisted is
their blacklist on dynamic IP addresses. Spamhaus is usually pretty
good at keeping their records up to date, and expiring outdated records,
so I'm not sure why I'm on their blacklist. Also, the 1st Received
header will be for my e-mail provider's server, not my home PC. I do
not run my own SMTP server. I use the one with my e-mail provider.

Does this sender send using their own SMTP server? That could violate
the TOS with their ISP regarding operating of public servers on a
personal-use service tier. Maybe they have a business account with
their ISP that permits running public servers to the Internet. If they
run their own mail server, there are LOTS of requirements to play nice
with other mail servers. He would need his own DKIM and SPF keys. He
would need to add an MX record to his nameserver. He would have to
ensure his mail server isn't blacklisted on the DNSBLs. He would have
to ensure any bulk mails he sends would not run afoul of DCC catching
his bulk mails that exceed some count threshold (set by clients or
servers using DCC for what threshold they determine constitutes bulk
mail). Lots of stuff of consider and learn to make your mail server
look okay to other mail servers.

If the sender is not using Gmail, it's possible that whatever e-mail
service the sender is using is considered a spam source by Gmail, or any
DNSBLs they may use. If running his own mail server, lots of details to
handle to ensure other mail servers see his as a valid and trusted
sending mail server. He could be using an e-mail provider that Gmail
considers overly spammy.

On 2023-12-29 15:50, VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-12-29 05:13, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> Frank Miller <miller@posteo.ee> wrote:
>>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> Frank Miller wrote:
>>>>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:

....

>> For example, Alpine.
>>
>> I could also concoct a cron job, maybe with imapsync.
>
> https://alpineapp.email/ is a mess. Eventually I noticed a link to
> https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/filters/index.html.
>
> Every time Alpine opens a folder, for each message in that folder it
> will scan to check if any of the filters apply to the message, if it
> does it will execute it and move on to the next message, where the
> cycle will repeat again. Filters are also executed every time that new
> mail arrives to the folder (if the folder is already open), or if the
> filter depended on its status (message is new, answered), when the
> folder is about to be closed.
>
> Other than filters automatically exercised after a mail session, any
> post-processing of filters is event driven, specifically when opening a
> folder. When you open a folder, filters for that folder get exercised.
> So, the server moves a message into the Spam folder, you see a new
> message arrive in the Spam folder, you open the Spam folder, but there
> is no message there, because filters on that folder got exercised to
> move the message back to the Inbox. Seems confusing to be told there is
> a message in the Spam folder only not to find one there when you open
> that folder. Plus that is user-initiated post-processing, not automated
> post-processing. You have to open the folder yourself.

I can leave that folder permanently opened in a terminal in my server,
if it comes to that.

>
> Every filter has two parts, the conditions that activate the filter
> (e.g. the message is from your boss) and the action to be taken if the
> conditions are satisfied (e.g. move it to the folder "work").
>
> In a filter's condition(s), can you specify which folder for the scope
> of the filter? That is, can you specify a filter only acts on the Spam
> folder to move false positives there back to the Inbox folder?

Yes, I checked.

> If so,
> will that filter fire after a mail session, or only when you open the
> Spam folder?

That I would have to try.

Or, maybe I can do it with imapsync and a cronjob.

Starting to think:

imapsync --errorsmax 150 --addheader --no-modulesversion \
--host1 GMAIL --user1 USER --passfile1 .GMAIL_imapsync \
--host2 LOCAL --user2 USER --passfile2 .secret_imapsync \
--delete1 \
--folder temp_l --f1f2 temp_l=Sync_tmp

More thinking:

--search str : Selects only messages returned by this IMAP SEARCH
command. Applied on both sides.
For a complete set of what can be search see
https://imapsync.lamiral.info/FAQ.d/FAQ.Messages_Selection.txt

--search1 str : Same as --search but for selecting host1
messages only.
--search2 str : Same as --search but for selecting host2
messages only.
So --search CRIT equals --search1 CRIT
--search2 CRIT

OPTIONS/specific

--gmail1 : sets --host1 to Gmail and other options.
See FAQ.Gmail.txt
--gmail2 : sets --host2 to Gmail and other options.
See FAQ.Gmail.txt

--dry : Makes imapsync do nothing for real; it
just prints what
would be done without --dry.

--regexflag reg : Apply the whole regex to each flags list.
Example: 's/"Junk"//g' # to remove "Junk"
flag.

Looks promising, but I have to think about it, and now I am not in
thinking mode.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-12-29 16:48, VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-12-29 03:49, sticks wrote:
>>> On 12/28/2023 3:55 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I need a filter that runs on the Gmail/spam folder, and not on the
>>>> Gmail/INBOX folder.
>>>>
>>>> I can't. I can only do filter on the entire Gmail thing.
>>>>
>>>> is there a trick?
>>>>
>>>> The purpose is to move some mail that Gmail considers spam back to the
>>>> Inbox, automatically.
>>>>
>>>> No, filtering directly at gmail web doesn't work.
>>>>
>>>> No, configuring in gmail to not mark as spam mail that is in my
>>>> address book doesn't work.
>>>>
>>>> I need to bypass gmail stupidiness.
>>>>
>>>> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only on
>>>> one folder, which is not the inbox.
>>>
>>> Had a similar problem with Charter, my ISP.  The only way I could solve
>>> the problem was to totally disable their spam detection of my emails and
>>> take it over myself.  Their web based platform refused to follow the
>>> rules I would place on it for this and also for things I didn't want to
>>> see.  Eventually, I just gave up, turned off their ability, and do it
>>> myself.  Don't know if GMail gives you that option, but it might be your
>>> only choice.
>>
>> Yes, I did that with GMX.
>>
>> Gmail detection is quite good, but there is a developer in the XFS mail
>> list who gmail insist to classify as spammer no matter what. I don't
>> know if I can totally disable spam filtering in gmail, and that list
>> does have spam that I want to clean out.
>
> Developer.
> XFS mail list.
>
> Might the Gmail account be for company use? If so, maybe you could
> convince to pay for Google Workspace.

Nope. The Gmail account is actually an auxiliary account.

> If you're on some mailing list, couldn't you update your membership to
> point to a different e-mail provider that does have a safe senders
> whitelist feature?

Sure.

>
> Have you looked at the headers to see what, if any, anti-spam headers
> are listed? Might clue in why the sender is getting blacklisted.

dkim=pass
spf=pass
dmarc=fail

I don't see any "spam" something header.

>
> Is it just one sender, or anyone using the mailing list where you
> receive a copy of the bulk mailing sent out through the mailing list?

Currently one sender, but I have seen others.

> I
> can't see anyone using a mailing list to send out, say, notifications
> would get targeted alone since the mailing list is always the same
> sender, so anyone using the mailing list would be seen as the sender of
> those e-mails.

Huh. No, the mail list header uses as sender the original sender of each
email.

>
> Is the problematic sender using MS Outlook, or using Word to send a
> message via Outlook?

No, uses Exim.

> Or is he using an e-mail client that doesn't
> pollute the e-mail with tons of Word-specific headers? Way too long
> since I last used MS Outlook to remember if it had an option to strip
> out all the Word-specific headers.
>
> Are there TNEF attachments (win[mail].dat) in the sender's e-mail?

No.

> If
> so, have the sender format using plain-text or HTML their messages, and
> not use RTF (Rich-Text Format). There have been vulnerabilities
> (BadWinMail Exploit) with TNEF attachments, so possibly the mail server
> is flagging those messages as spam although it may not be spam, as such,
> but a message with an iffy attachment. An exploit packs code inside the
> winmail.dat file which gets executed when Outlook renders the
> winmail.dat. You may not be using MS Outlook, but servers don't know
> and don't care what clients are accessing messages on the server. It's
> an old exploit back around 2015, so Outlook should've been patched by
> now, but servers might simply consider any messages with winmail.dat to
> be suspect.
>
> Is this sender sending you boilerplate e-mails? Or using MailMerge?
> Those e-mails have little unique in them. They might mention your name,
> or a few bytes that personalize the copy of their bulk message, but the
> vast majority of the message is the same content they send to every
> other user in the mailing list or mail merge. Some e-mail providers use
> DCC (Distributed Checksum Clearinghouse) to gauge if messages are bulk
> mail, and consider bulk mails the same as spam. I've seen this happen
> with churches that send out newsletters via mail merge, so they are seen
> as sending out bulk mail. If you use DCC, like in an add-on or local
> mail proxy, you can set the threshold at which the same message sent to
> N recipients will trigger a flag the message is spam. If an e-mail
> provider uses DCC, they set the threshold for when too many of the
> nearly same messages are considered bulk mail.

He sends "patches", lots of them :-)

And answers to people sending patches.

He has a leader role, so to speak. This is a very technical mail list.
Searching for the "from", I see about 3000 mails from him since 2021.

No human using Linux would see his posts as spam.

>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Checksum_Clearinghouse
>
> E-mail providers may employ something similar to DCC where they see to
> how many recipients get the same message from a sender at the same
> e-mail provider. They may not care you sent out 500 messages that day,
> but they might consider you a spammer if you sent 500 of the same
> message to recipients at the same e-mail provider.

Yeah, gmail is a piece of work.

It is quite feasible for someone to send 500 patches in a row. I have
not seen that many, but a hundred, yes. A patch storm.

>
> Even if the body isn't spammy, does the sender put a lot of spammy
> looking crap in his signatures, if he uses sigs?

Nope.

>
> Gmail gives some info how their server-side spam filtering works, but
> they don't give details since they don't want to provide a tutorial for
> spammers to figure out how to subvert's Gmail's spam filtering.
>
> https://workspace.google.com/blog/identity-and-security/an-overview-of-gmails-spam-filters
>
> E-mail providers often use DNSBLs (DNS blacklists). Those list IP
> addresses of known spam sources. The good ones should have a flooring
> function that expires old records since spammers move around, and most
> IP addresses are dynamically assigned to users, and bindings can change
> after they expire (although DHCP servers will often reuse an IP address
> from their pool for the same customer for a bind created soon after one
> expired and an unbind, but that's not guaranteed). You might want to
> check if your sender is on a DNSBL. Go to:
>
> https://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx
>
> and enter the sender's IP address (should be in the first Received
> header that is not used between servers internal to the source e-mail
> service). Received headers are prepended as a message hops between mail
> service, so the topmost one is the last one, and the bottommost one is
> the 1st one. For example, my IPv4 address is on the SORBS and Spamhaus
> Zen blacklists. Don't know why. SORBS is very slow at updating their
> blacklist. I've had to contact them to get their records straight.
> They claim to periodically (daily maybe) update their blacklist, but I
> found their bot too often misses some records. Since I get a dynamic IP
> address from my ISP, likely someone had it before my current bind who
> spammed or bulk mailed using it. SORBS DUHL where I'm blacklisted is
> their blacklist on dynamic IP addresses. Spamhaus is usually pretty
> good at keeping their records up to date, and expiring outdated records,
> so I'm not sure why I'm on their blacklist. Also, the 1st Received
> header will be for my e-mail provider's server, not my home PC. I do
> not run my own SMTP server. I use the one with my e-mail provider.
>
> Does this sender send using their own SMTP server? That could violate
> the TOS with their ISP regarding operating of public servers on a
> personal-use service tier. Maybe they have a business account with
> their ISP that permits running public servers to the Internet. If they
> run their own mail server, there are LOTS of requirements to play nice
> with other mail servers. He would need his own DKIM and SPF keys. He
> would need to add an MX record to his nameserver. He would have to
> ensure his mail server isn't blacklisted on the DNSBLs. He would have
> to ensure any bulk mails he sends would not run afoul of DCC catching
> his bulk mails that exceed some count threshold (set by clients or
> servers using DCC for what threshold they determine constitutes bulk
> mail). Lots of stuff of consider and learn to make your mail server
> look okay to other mail servers.
>
> If the sender is not using Gmail, it's possible that whatever e-mail
> service the sender is using is considered a spam source by Gmail, or any
> DNSBLs they may use. If running his own mail server, lots of details to
> handle to ensure other mail servers see his as a valid and trusted
> sending mail server. He could be using an e-mail provider that Gmail
> considers overly spammy.

On 28-12-2023 22:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I need a filter that runs on the Gmail/spam folder, and not on the
> Gmail/INBOX folder.
>
> I can't. I can only do filter on the entire Gmail thing.
>
> is there a trick?
>
> The purpose is to move some mail that Gmail considers spam back to the
> Inbox, automatically.
>
> No, filtering directly at gmail web doesn't work.
>
> No, configuring in gmail to not mark as spam mail that is in my address
> book doesn't work.
>
> I need to bypass gmail stupidiness.
>
> But I don't know how to do in Thunderbird a filter that acts only on one
> folder, which is not the inbox.
>
>
Have a look at imapfilter: https://github.com/lefcha/imapfilter
Installing it could be as simple as apt install imapfilter.
Put it in a cron job wherever you have your leafnode running and forget
about it.
I'm using it for the same problem with my ISP, and a lot more.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> Have you looked at the headers to see what, if any, anti-spam headers
>> are listed? Might clue in why the sender is getting blacklisted.
>
> dkim=pass
> spf=pass
> dmarc=fail

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMARC

Seems Gmail, the receiving mail server, treats the sending mail server
(used by your sender or mailing list) as not trusted.

What e-mail provider does your problematic sender, or the mailing list,
use to send out messages? However, apparently DMARC is a fallback
scheme if DKIM and SPF fail. Yet the wiki article says DMARC may still
a fail in trust when both DKIM and SPF pass.

https://support.google.com/a/answer/2466580
https://fraudwatch.com/blog/email-security-mx-records/

That's why I asked if your sender or mailing list is using its own SMTP
server, or are using clients that connect to an existing and rather
substantial e-mail provider. An established e-mail provider would
already have MX records in their nameserver, too, but maybe the sending
mail server does not.

For gmail.com:

https://support.google.com/a/answer/2466580?hl=en

shows Gmail has multiple MX records of varying priority (preference).
Not only does it send out messages, but it has MX records for which
hosts are used at Gmail for inbound messages. Could be Google tests the
sending mail server has MX records (which point to inbound servers). If
the sending mail server has no MX records, Gmail might consider what
looks like an outbound-only mail server to be a spam source. Typical
mail servers both accept and send messages, not just send them.

> No, the mail list header uses as sender the original sender of each
> email.

So, when anyone sends a message to the mailing list server, the sender
is identified in the From header, and other source headers (e.g.,
Sender). But sending to a mailing list mandates the sender is
generating bulk mail. Some bulk mail has the "Precedence: bulk" header,
but don't count on it being there even for non-spammer senders. E-mail
clients don't add that header, like for a mail merge. Mailing lists
probably don't add it. But sending out bulk mails to multiple
recipients whether be for spam, mail merge, or mailing lists can run
afoul of DCC or send tracking by e-mail providers in detecting multiple
messages with the same content.

>> Is this sender sending you boilerplate e-mails? Or using MailMerge?
>> Those e-mails have little unique in them. They might mention your name,
>> or a few bytes that personalize the copy of their bulk message, but the
>> vast majority of the message is the same content they send to every
>> other user in the mailing list or mail merge. Some e-mail providers use
>> DCC (Distributed Checksum Clearinghouse) to gauge if messages are bulk
>> mail, and consider bulk mails the same as spam. I've seen this happen
>> with churches that send out newsletters via mail merge, so they are seen
>> as sending out bulk mail. If you use DCC, like in an add-on or local
>> mail proxy, you can set the threshold at which the same message sent to
>> N recipients will trigger a flag the message is spam. If an e-mail
>> provider uses DCC, they set the threshold for when too many of the
>> nearly same messages are considered bulk mail.
>
> He sends "patches", lots of them :-)

The same patch sent to multiple recipients is bulk mail.

> And answers to people sending patches.

Those are probably tailored responses sent to specific senders rather
than responding to one person by sending out bulk messages to everyone
on the mailing list.

> He has a leader role, so to speak. This is a very technical mail list.
> Searching for the "from", I see about 3000 mails from him since 2021.
>
> No human using Linux would see his posts as spam.

I don't know on what OS runs the Gmail e-mail service nor on what OS is
Gmail's spam filter server (since they could be different hosts). Your
problem is with Gmail's spam filtering, not with whatever clients and
OSes are used by the recipients, like you. Linux, Windows, MacOS,
Android, iOS clients are all accessing the same Gmail servers, and it's
up on the Gmail servers that someone you trust is getting flagged a
spammer.

I've never been concerned what OS is used by Gmail, but now I'm curious.
I've never even checked what mail server software that Gmail uses.
Seems Google keeps secret that info, or do not consider it pertinent
info that clients or other servers need to know since the interface is
using e-mail protocols regardless of what OS each endpoint uses in a
mail connection.

You find articles like:

https://www.quora.com/What-operating-system-do-Google-use-for-their-servers

but without citations for reference for Ashirviskas Ash's statements.

If you are the only recipient of this sender that is getting flagged as
spam (i.e., no one else on the mailing list sees him spam tagged), then
the behavior is unique to your Gmail account, its settings, its
server-side filters, or the config your your client (Tbird).

Tbird exercises its Bayes filter before applying the user-defined
filters. To me, that's ass-backwards. In any filtering scheme, Bayes
should be the very last anti-spam method since it is a guessing scheme.
I has assumed Gmail was moving the sender into your server-side Spam
folder, and the IMAP client was reflecting what was up on the server.
However, possibly Tbird is spam-flagging the sender, moving him to the
Spam folder which then gets synchronized to the server-side Spam folder.
Turn off Tbird's junk filter, and see if this sender still gets spam
flagged.

>> Gmail gives some info how their server-side spam filtering works, but
>> they don't give details since they don't want to provide a tutorial for
>> spammers to figure out how to subvert's Gmail's spam filtering.
>>
>> https://workspace.google.com/blog/identity-and-security/an-overview-of-gmails-spam-filters
>>
>> E-mail providers often use DNSBLs (DNS blacklists). Those list IP
>> addresses of known spam sources. The good ones should have a flooring
>> function that expires old records since spammers move around, and most
>> IP addresses are dynamically assigned to users, and bindings can change
>> after they expire (although DHCP servers will often reuse an IP address
>> from their pool for the same customer for a bind created soon after one
>> expired and an unbind, but that's not guaranteed). You might want to
>> check if your sender is on a DNSBL. Go to:
>>
>> https://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx
>>
>> and enter the sender's IP address (should be in the first Received
>> header that is not used between servers internal to the source e-mail
>> service). Received headers are prepended as a message hops between mail
>> service, so the topmost one is the last one, and the bottommost one is
>> the 1st one. For example, my IPv4 address is on the SORBS and Spamhaus
>> Zen blacklists. Don't know why. SORBS is very slow at updating their
>> blacklist. I've had to contact them to get their records straight.
>> They claim to periodically (daily maybe) update their blacklist, but I
>> found their bot too often misses some records. Since I get a dynamic IP
>> address from my ISP, likely someone had it before my current bind who
>> spammed or bulk mailed using it. SORBS DUHL where I'm blacklisted is
>> their blacklist on dynamic IP addresses. Spamhaus is usually pretty
>> good at keeping their records up to date, and expiring outdated records,
>> so I'm not sure why I'm on their blacklist. Also, the 1st Received
>> header will be for my e-mail provider's server, not my home PC. I do
>> not run my own SMTP server. I use the one with my e-mail provider.
>>
>> Does this sender send using their own SMTP server? That could violate
>> the TOS with their ISP regarding operating of public servers on a
>> personal-use service tier. Maybe they have a business account with
>> their ISP that permits running public servers to the Internet. If they
>> run their own mail server, there are LOTS of requirements to play nice
>> with other mail servers. He would need his own DKIM and SPF keys. He
>> would need to add an MX record to his nameserver. He would have to
>> ensure his mail server isn't blacklisted on the DNSBLs. He would have
>> to ensure any bulk mails he sends would not run afoul of DCC catching
>> his bulk mails that exceed some count threshold (set by clients or
>> servers using DCC for what threshold they determine constitutes bulk
>> mail). Lots of stuff of consider and learn to make your mail server
>> look okay to other mail servers.
>>
>> If the sender is not using Gmail, it's possible that whatever e-mail
>> service the sender is using is considered a spam source by Gmail, or any
>> DNSBLs they may use. If running his own mail server, lots of details to
>> handle to ensure other mail servers see his as a valid and trusted
>> sending mail server. He could be using an e-mail provider that Gmail
>> considers overly spammy.
>
> It is basically irrelevant to me why he is classified as spam, I don't
> care. I just want to filter him back.

On 2023-12-30 02:11, dillinger wrote:
> On 28-12-2023 22:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> Hi,

....

> Have a look at imapfilter: https://github.com/lefcha/imapfilter
> Installing it could be as simple as apt install imapfilter.
> Put it in a cron job wherever you have your leafnode running and forget
> about it.
> I'm using it for the same problem with my ISP, and a lot more.

This is a very complicated tool. Seems a programming language. I don't
see a programming guide for dummies.

Worse, the language used in

https://github.com/lefcha/imapfilter/blob/master/samples/config.lua

seems not the same as used in samples/extend.lua

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 30-12-2023 03:37, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-12-30 02:11, dillinger wrote:
>> On 28-12-2023 22:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> Hi,
>
> ...
>
>> Have a look at imapfilter: https://github.com/lefcha/imapfilter
>> Installing it could be as simple as apt install imapfilter.
>> Put it in a cron job wherever you have your leafnode running and
>> forget about it.
>> I'm using it for the same problem with my ISP, and a lot more.
>
> This is a very complicated tool. Seems a programming language. I don't
> see a programming guide for dummies.
>
> Worse, the language used in
>
> https://github.com/lefcha/imapfilter/blob/master/samples/config.lua
>
> seems not the same as used in samples/extend.lua
>
>
Check the manpages:

https://linux.die.net/man/1/imapfilter
https://linux.die.net/man/5/imapfilter_config

To filter one senders mail you only need one simple rule.

The configuration file should be saved at ~/.imapfilter/config.lua

For Gmail you need an app password:
https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185833?hl=en

Your config.lua would then look something like this:

gmail = IMAP {
server = 'imap.gmail.com',
username = 'your user name here',
password = 'you app password here',
ssl = 'tls1'
}

notspam = gmail['[Gmail]/Spam']:contain_from('sender@email.provider')
notspam:move_messages(gmail['Inbox'])

On 2023-12-30 11:12, dillinger wrote:
> On 30-12-2023 03:37, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2023-12-30 02:11, dillinger wrote:
>>> On 28-12-2023 22:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> Have a look at imapfilter: https://github.com/lefcha/imapfilter
>>> Installing it could be as simple as apt install imapfilter.
>>> Put it in a cron job wherever you have your leafnode running and
>>> forget about it.
>>> I'm using it for the same problem with my ISP, and a lot more.
>>
>> This is a very complicated tool. Seems a programming language. I don't
>> see a programming guide for dummies.
>>
>> Worse, the language used in
>>
>> https://github.com/lefcha/imapfilter/blob/master/samples/config.lua
>>
>> seems not the same as used in samples/extend.lua
>>
>>
> Check the manpages:
>
> https://linux.die.net/man/1/imapfilter
> https://linux.die.net/man/5/imapfilter_config
>
> To filter one senders mail you only need one simple rule.
>
> The configuration file should be saved at ~/.imapfilter/config.lua
>
> For Gmail you need an app password:
> https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185833?hl=en
>
> Your config.lua would then look something like this:
>
> gmail = IMAP {
>     server = 'imap.gmail.com',
>     username = 'your user name here',
>     password = 'you app password here',
>     ssl = 'tls1'
> }
>
> notspam = gmail['[Gmail]/Spam']:contain_from('sender@email.provider')
> notspam:move_messages(gmail['Inbox'])

It worked, thanks!

I wanted to add emails, so I did:

notspam = gmail['[Gmail]/Spam']:contain_from('sender@email.provider') +
gmail['[Gmail]/Spam']:contain_from('sender_2@email.provider')
notspam:move_messages(gmail['Inbox'])

also worked :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-12-30 02:11, dillinger wrote:
> On 28-12-2023 22:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:

....

>>
> Have a look at imapfilter: https://github.com/lefcha/imapfilter
> Installing it could be as simple as apt install imapfilter.
> Put it in a cron job wherever you have your leafnode running and forget
> about it.
> I'm using it for the same problem with my ISP, and a lot more.

Hi,

Is there a place to ask questions about imapfilter?

I'm having trouble.

If you are curious, I made the following in ~/.imapfilter/config.lua:

The purpose is move messages older than 2 days that come from several mail lists to another folder.

gmx_l = IMAP {
server = 'imap.gmx.com',
username = '...',
password = '...',
ssl = 'tls1'
}

Non_OT_GX_L = ( gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<security.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<gnome.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<translation.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<virtual.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<kde.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<kde3.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<test.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<kernel.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<users-es.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<users.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<announce.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<security-announce.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<factory.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<support.lists.opensuse.org>') +
gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id', '<project.lists.opensuse.org>') ) *
gmx_l.INBOX:is_older(2)
Non_OT_GX_L:move_messages(gmx_l['temp_g'])

This results in

945 messages moved from ...@gmx.es@imap.gmx.com/INBOX to ...@gmx.es@imap.gmx.com/temp_g.

But hundreds of those mails are incorrect. It is moving many messages that do not have any "List-Id" header, or that the header is:

List-Id: Offtopic list <offtopic.lists.opensuse.org>

I have a debug log of the operation:

+++..........................
sending command (7):

1017 UID SEARCH ALL HEADER List-Id: "<security.lists.opensuse.org>"

getting response (7):

* SEARCH 181053 181080 181138 ...
1017 OK UID SEARCH completed

....

sending command (7):

1025 UID SEARCH ALL HEADER List-Id: "<project.lists.opensuse.org>"

getting response (7):

* SEARCH 181022 181083 ...
1025 OK UID SEARCH completed

sending command (7):

1026 UID SEARCH ALL BEFORE 19-Mar-2024

getting response (7):

* SEARCH 138431 138767 ...
( a lot of them )

conversion: 'temp_g' -> 'temp_g'
sending command (7):

1027 UID COPY 182863:183807 "temp_g"

getting response (7):

1027 OK [COPYUID 1629482218 182863:183807 61211:62155] UID COPY completed <==============

sending command (7):

1028 UID STORE 182863:183807 +FLAGS.SILENT (\Deleted)

getting response (7):

1028 OK UID STORE completed

sending command (7):

1029 EXPUNGE

....

...........................++-

It appears like it is moving all old messages ignoring if it matches the list-id criteria. Just not moving all of them, there are 7000 messages there.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-03-21 14:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-12-30 02:11, dillinger wrote:
>> On 28-12-2023 22:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
> ...
>
>>>
>> Have a look at imapfilter: https://github.com/lefcha/imapfilter
>> Installing it could be as simple as apt install imapfilter.
>> Put it in a cron job wherever you have your leafnode running and
>> forget about it.
>> I'm using it for the same problem with my ISP, and a lot more.
>
> Hi,
>
> Is there a place to ask questions about imapfilter?
>
>
> I'm having trouble.
>
> If you are curious, I made the following in ~/.imapfilter/config.lua:
>
> The purpose is move messages older than 2 days that come from several
> mail lists to another folder.
>
>
> gmx_l = IMAP {
>     server = 'imap.gmx.com',
>     username = '...',
>     password = '...',
>     ssl = 'tls1'
> }

I simplified the rule:

Non_OT_GX_L = gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id:', '<users.lists.opensuse.org>') *
gmx_l.INBOX:is_older(2)
Non_OT_GX_L:move_messages(gmx_l['temp_g'])

but it is still failing. It moves 148 messages, a lot of them that do not have the specified header.

The rule I am trying is very similar to another one given in the documentation:

https://github.com/lefcha/imapfilter/blob/master/samples/config.lua

-- Get messages with the specified "Sender" header, which are older than
-- 30 days.
results = account1.INBOX:contain_field('sender', 'owner@announce-list') *
account1.INBOX:is_older(30)

-- Move messages to the "announce" mailbox inside the "lists" folder.
results:move_messages(account1['lists/announce'])

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 21-03-2024 20:13, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> I simplified the rule:
>
>
> Non_OT_GX_L = gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id:',
> '<users.lists.opensuse.org>') *
>            gmx_l.INBOX:is_older(2)
> Non_OT_GX_L:move_messages(gmx_l['temp_g'])
>
>
> but it is still failing. It moves 148 messages, a lot of them that do
> not have the specified header.
AFAIK the colon is not part of the field.
testlist = kpn019['Info']:contain_field('List-Id',
'beta.discuss.thunderbird.net'):is_older(2)
testlist:unmark_seen()
works fine here, so you can simplify it even further:
Non_OT_GX_L = gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id',
'users.lists.opensuse.org'):gmx_l.INBOX:is_older(2)
Non_OT_GX_L:move_messages(gmx_l['temp_g'])
should work for you.
Excuse the HTML, I need the long lines :)

On 22-03-2024 06:25, dillinger wrote:
> On 21-03-2024 20:13, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> I simplified the rule:
>>
>>
>> Non_OT_GX_L = gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id:',
>> '<users.lists.opensuse.org>') *
>>            gmx_l.INBOX:is_older(2)
>> Non_OT_GX_L:move_messages(gmx_l['temp_g'])
>>
>>
>> but it is still failing. It moves 148 messages, a lot of them that do
>> not have the specified header.
>
> AFAIK the colon is not part of the field.
>
> testlist = kpn019['Info']:contain_field('List-Id',
> 'beta.discuss.thunderbird.net'):is_older(2)
> testlist:unmark_seen()
>
> works fine here, so you can simplify it even further:
>
> Non_OT_GX_L = gmx_l.INBOX:contain_field('List-Id',
> 'users.lists.opensuse.org'):gmx_l.INBOX:is_older(2)
> Non_OT_GX_L:move_messages(gmx_l['temp_g'])
>
> should work for you.
>
> Excuse the HTML, I need the long lines :)
No HTML, but base64, weird, let's see what this one does.