Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?

--
Interests: dogs, music, nature, animals, trees, diesels, tractors,
theology, biology, economy, bacteriae skunks, and humanity ..in that order.

On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 06:47:22 -0500, bad sector wrote:

> Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
> thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
> MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
> come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?

Shade?

Here on SuSE xfce I have Fx 115.7 which has a range of options including
maximize, reduce window size, minimize to taskbar, and roll window up (ie
just the title-bar remains). I can see these with right-click and I expect
I can default double-click to one of them somewhere. The default now is
reduce window size. I rarely do it except by accident.

I don't have 121 but in nightly 'roll window up' is not available -
presumably because it would leave some menu options. (I don't like it
either, but I don't care that much.)
--
(Remove any numerics from my email address.)

Am 30.01.24 um 12:47 schrieb bad sector:
>
> Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
> thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
> MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
> come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?

1) Do not doubleklick the "title bar"
2) Learn to live with it
3) Use another browser

BTW: My TB and my BB have no "titel bar"

--
Sent with Bettterbird from an Intel-Mac running a Linux Mint (LMDE) with
Cinnamon Flavour. Simply better.
www.betterbird.eu

On 1/30/24 11:31, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 30.01.24 um 12:47 schrieb bad sector:
>>
>> Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
>> thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
>> MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
>> come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?
>
> 1) Do not doubleklick the "title bar"
> 2) Learn to live with it
> 3) Use another browser

I now use 9 browsers, for a hint of how unstable my relationship is with
all of them

> BTW: My TB and my BB have no "titel bar"

Yeah, that's another one I have to work back onto the desktop, mostly
with mozilla products

On 1/30/24 11:22, Dave Royal wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 06:47:22 -0500, bad sector wrote:
>
>> Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
>> thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
>> MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
>> come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?
>
> Shade?
>
> Here on SuSE xfce I have Fx 115.7 which has a range of options including
> maximize, reduce window size, minimize to taskbar, and roll window up (ie
> just the title-bar remains). I can see these with right-click and I expect
> I can default double-click to one of them somewhere. The default now is
> reduce window size. I rarely do it except by accident.
>
> I don't have 121 but in nightly 'roll window up' is not available -
> presumably because it would leave some menu options. (I don't like it
> either, but I don't care that much.)

Thanks, but other apps comply with system settings requiring less mouse
mileage btw.

On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 14:45:32 -0500, bad sector
<forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote:

>On 1/30/24 11:31, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 30.01.24 um 12:47 schrieb bad sector:
>>>
>>> Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
>>> thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
>>> MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
>>> come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?
>>
>> 1) Do not doubleklick the "title bar"
>> 2) Learn to live with it
>> 3) Use another browser
>
>I now use 9 browsers, for a hint of how unstable my relationship is with
>all of them
>
>> BTW: My TB and my BB have no "titel bar"
>
>Yeah, that's another one I have to work back onto the desktop, mostly
>with mozilla products

It's *interesting* that years ago the bitching and grumbling about
Title Bar was all about "Get rid of it -- it takes up space".

So Moz made it a simple check box at the bottom left of the Firefox
*Customise* page...

bad sector wrote:
>
> Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
> thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
> MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
> come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?

This is part of your desktop\window manager KDE.
Look for Window Rules:
https://userbase.kde.org/System_Settings/Window_Behaviour

On 1/30/24 18:39, Frank Miller wrote:
> bad sector wrote:
>>
>> Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
>> thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
>> MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
>> come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?
>
> This is part of your desktop\window manager KDE.
> Look for Window Rules:
> https://userbase.kde.org/System_Settings/Window_Behaviour

At this time booted into Suse-Slowroll, under
WindowManagment/WindowBehavior/TitlebarActions
I have set Double-Click to SHADE. This seem to
do the job on all windows except one: Firefox.

I found that rules page too but have never seen
it before, have no idea what to do with it nor
of why I should since every other window seems
to have no problem complying.

bad sector wrote:
> On 1/30/24 18:39, Frank Miller wrote:
>> bad sector wrote:
>>>
>>> Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
>>> thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
>>> MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
>>> come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?
>>
>> This is part of your desktop\window manager KDE.
>> Look for Window Rules:
>> https://userbase.kde.org/System_Settings/Window_Behaviour
>
>
> At this time booted into Suse-Slowroll, under
> WindowManagment/WindowBehavior/TitlebarActions
> I have set Double-Click to SHADE. This seem to
> do the job on all windows except one: Firefox.
>
> I found that rules page too but have never seen
> it before, have no idea what to do with it nor
> of why I should since every other window seems
> to have no problem complying.
>

So ask in an according newsgroup. This is no Firefox item.

On 1/30/24 18:20, Nobody wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 14:45:32 -0500, bad sector
> <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote:
>
>> On 1/30/24 11:31, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 30.01.24 um 12:47 schrieb bad sector:
>>>>
>>>> Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
>>>> thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
>>>> MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
>>>> come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?
>>>
>>> 1) Do not doubleklick the "title bar"
>>> 2) Learn to live with it
>>> 3) Use another browser
>>
>> I now use 9 browsers, for a hint of how unstable my relationship is with
>> all of them
>>
>>> BTW: My TB and my BB have no "titel bar"
>>
>> Yeah, that's another one I have to work back onto the desktop, mostly
>> with mozilla products
>
> It's *interesting* that years ago the bitching and grumbling about
> Title Bar was all about "Get rid of it -- it takes up space".
>
> So Moz made it a simple check box at the bottom left of the Firefox
> *Customise* page...

As far as I remember I have always used a titlebar and classic cascading
menus and I want these to be defaults, unfortunately it's not my ship,
brigdge or watch. As far as space goes, yes, like on control panels
every square mm around a window is also prime real-estate not to be
wasted and a menu bar in the title bar would seem like reasonable
compaction too except when you want to grab it and you get a menu popup
instead. One can get used to a combined URL/search box which is not a
bad idea, a nav bar is a must, but personally tabs of any sort I have no
use for.

On 1/30/24 22:14, Frank Miller wrote:
> bad sector wrote:
>> On 1/30/24 18:39, Frank Miller wrote:
>>> bad sector wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
>>>> thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
>>>> MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
>>>> come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?
>>>
>>> This is part of your desktop\window manager KDE.
>>> Look for Window Rules:
>>> https://userbase.kde.org/System_Settings/Window_Behaviour
>>
>>
>> At this time booted into Suse-Slowroll, under
>> WindowManagment/WindowBehavior/TitlebarActions
>> I have set Double-Click to SHADE. This seem to
>> do the job on all windows except one: Firefox.
>>
>> I found that rules page too but have never seen
>> it before, have no idea what to do with it nor
>> of why I should since every other window seems
>> to have no problem complying.
>
> So ask in an according newsgroup. This is no Firefox item.

In my book 'except one' makes it an exclusively FF one.

"bad sector" <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote
| | Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
| thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
| MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
| come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?
|

Interesting. Never in my life have I double-clicked a
title bar. I just tried it on Windows. In every window
I've tried, it maximizes! That includes FF. Or rather, it's
a toggle between max and normal. It sounds like your KDE
settings may be overriding a standard default.

Mozilla does do some unusual things. Windows, as you may
know, is named for the standardized system of having
a software GUI composed of windows or identifiable objects.
There's a tool on Windows called Spy++ that provides the
ability to find individual windows. Active Accessibility API
for screen readers and such works in a similar way. For
example, if you move the mouse over a textbox, AA can
identify the type of window, the text in the textbox, and so on.

Most program windows conform to that system and create
their windows from the WinAPI. For instance, if I open
IrfanView and scan it with Spy++, I find the main window,
toolbar, status bar and image field are all separate windows.
The rare exceptions are things like music players that skin the
window with a picture of a boombox. In that case the program
is translating mouse clicks to offset coordinates to figure out
what was clicked. A button will not be a button. It will just be
a picture.

Firefox is similar in that discoverability doesn't work. They
seem to be drawing the whole thing from scratch. Spy++ sees
only one window, named for the title bar caption, with a class
name of MozillaWindowClass. Spy++ lists 20-odd windows under
FF, but most have no properties and are not recognizable by
system events like a mouse hover/click.

I don't know how Linux/KDE does things, but I'm guessing that
KDE is using some kind of system hook for standard windows on
Linux to give you your GUI preferences, and Firefox is not
cooperating.

I have no idea what it means for a window to "shade". Darken?
I can't imagine why anyone would want that. But if my guess
is correct then you're probably out of luck.

On 31.01.24 15:02, Newyana2 wrote:
> "bad sector" <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote
> |
> | Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
> | thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
> | MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
> | come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?
> |
>
> Interesting. Never in my life have I double-clicked a
> title bar. I just tried it on Windows. In every window
> I've tried, it maximizes! That includes FF. Or rather, it's
> a toggle between max and normal. It sounds like your KDE
> settings may be overriding a standard default.

On Mac doubleklick on title bar just maximises the window. Nothing
happens if it is done again. That is standard behaviour.

I would suggest it is a KDE thing. Later I will test it on a Linux machine.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 1/31/24 09:02, Newyana2 wrote:
> "bad sector" <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote
> |
> | Under KDE even non-KDE programs like sylpheed, gftp, audacity
> | thunderbird, and many others shade when I dbl-click the title-bar as per
> | MY preferences. FF (121.0.1) maximizes for which I have no use. How
> | come, and what can I do to defeat this idiotic default?
> |
>
> Interesting. Never in my life have I double-clicked a
> title bar. I just tried it on Windows. In every window
> I've tried, it maximizes! That includes FF. Or rather, it's
> a toggle between max and normal. It sounds like your KDE
> settings may be overriding a standard default.
>
> Mozilla does do some unusual things. Windows, as you may
> know, is named for the standardized system of having
> a software GUI composed of windows or identifiable objects.
> There's a tool on Windows called Spy++ that provides the
> ability to find individual windows. Active Accessibility API
> for screen readers and such works in a similar way. For
> example, if you move the mouse over a textbox, AA can
> identify the type of window, the text in the textbox, and so on.
>
> Most program windows conform to that system and create
> their windows from the WinAPI. For instance, if I open
> IrfanView and scan it with Spy++, I find the main window,
> toolbar, status bar and image field are all separate windows.
> The rare exceptions are things like music players that skin the
> window with a picture of a boombox. In that case the program
> is translating mouse clicks to offset coordinates to figure out
> what was clicked. A button will not be a button. It will just be
> a picture.
>
> Firefox is similar in that discoverability doesn't work. They
> seem to be drawing the whole thing from scratch. Spy++ sees
> only one window, named for the title bar caption, with a class
> name of MozillaWindowClass. Spy++ lists 20-odd windows under
> FF, but most have no properties and are not recognizable by
> system events like a mouse hover/click.
>
> I don't know how Linux/KDE does things, but I'm guessing that
> KDE is using some kind of system hook for standard windows on
> Linux to give you your GUI preferences, and Firefox is not
> cooperating.
>
> I have no idea what it means for a window to "shade". Darken?
> I can't imagine why anyone would want that. But if my guess
> is correct then you're probably out of luck.

'shading' is what you could call rolling up, first double-click and only
the title-bar remains, second double-click and it's back to the way it
was. For me it's one of the most used KDE features (I never maximize
windows, all kinds of stuff can happen behind them and I'd never know).
Windows I'm only superficially familiar with, I boot a differetnt Linux
system every day of the week. As far as mozilla, I don't know how
different FF is from T-Bird for example, the latter shades just like it
had always been a native KDE app :-)

"bad sector" <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote

| 'shading' is what you could call rolling up, first double-click and only
| the title-bar remains, second double-click and it's back to the way it
| was.

I see. On Windows there's minimize, so that only a button
on the taskbar shows that the program is still open. So if I'm
not using a program I might minimize it to see the Desktop.
That works wonderfully up to Win7. With Win10, Microsoft
screwed it up,combining minimized windows with shortcuts.
But it's still a handy function. When the taskbar button is clicked
it goes back to whatever it was before -- normal or maximized.
So... similar to what KDE does. Yet I never suspected there was
such functionality. Every window has a button to minimize, close
and toggle between normal/max, so there was never any reason
to look further.

| As far as mozilla, I don't know how
| different FF is from T-Bird for example, the latter shades just like it
| had always been a native KDE app

I guess that blows my theory. when I check TBird with Spy++
the result is the same as with FF. It only sees one window.

bad sector <forgetski@_invalid.net> wrote:
> As far as I remember I have always used a titlebar and classic cascading
> menus and I want these to be defaults, unfortunately it's not my ship,
> brigdge or watch. As far as space goes, yes, like on control panels
> every square mm around a window is also prime real-estate not to be
> wasted and a menu bar in the title bar would seem like reasonable
> compaction too except when you want to grab it and you get a menu popup
> instead. One can get used to a combined URL/search box which is not a
> bad idea, a nav bar is a must, but personally tabs of any sort I have no
> use for.

Do you have "System Titlebar" for Firefox enabled (View - Toolbars - Customize
Toolbar - "Title Bar" checkbox should be checked)? This way Titlebar Actions
will work.

--
Best regards,
DrunkenThon.