In an account settings, junk handling is not set; instead it should
follow "global preferences".

In the global preferences I have:

Junk
Set your default junk mail settings. Account-specific junk mail
settings can be configured in Account Settings.

[X] When I mark messages as junk:
(*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
( )Delete them
[ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
[ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging

Some mail are automatically marked as spam, but they are not moved to
the Junk folder till I manually mark them (again) as junk.

What should I do to have them moved to Junk folder by default,
automatically?

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 11/23/2023 10:27 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>
> In an account settings, junk handling is not set; instead it should
> follow "global preferences".
>
> In the global preferences I have:
>
> Junk
> Set your default junk mail settings. Account-specific junk mail
> settings can be configured in Account Settings.
>
> [X] When I mark messages as junk:
> (*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
> ( )Delete them
> [ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
> [ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging
>
>
> Some mail are automatically marked as spam, but they are not moved to
> the Junk folder till I manually mark them (again) as junk.
>
>
> What should I do to have them moved to Junk folder by default,
> automatically?
>
>

The following is based on my older configuration:
Windows 7
Thunderbird 52.9.1

In your global settings, check the checkbox to enable "Enable adaptive
junk filter logging".

Find out if your E-mail host service uses any kind of junk-flagging
software. If so, select your account and then Settings. On the
Settings window, select Junk Settings. Check the checkbox for "Trust
junk mail headers set by" and then select the software from the
pull-down selection list. (If the software name is not in the list, ask
here -- in a new thread -- how to add it.)

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rosde.com/>

X (previously known as Twitter) is the place where truth goes to die.

Am 23.11.23 um 19:27 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>
>
> In an account settings, junk handling is not set; instead it should
> follow "global preferences".
>
> In the global preferences I have:
>
> Junk
> Set your default junk mail settings. Account-specific junk mail
> settings can be configured in Account Settings.
>
> [X] When I mark messages as junk:
> (*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
> ( )Delete them
> [ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
> [ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging
>
>
> Some mail are automatically marked as spam, but they are not moved to
> the Junk folder till I manually mark them (again) as junk.
>
>
> What should I do to have them moved to Junk folder by default,
> automatically?

Account settings - Junk-Filter - At the bottom you will find the option
where Spam-Mails have to be moved. It seems to be independent from the
use of account's Junk-Filter.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 2023-11-23 22:49, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 23.11.23 um 19:27 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>
>>
>> In an account settings, junk handling is not set; instead it should
>> follow "global preferences".
>>
>> In the global preferences I have:
>>
>>     Junk
>>     Set your default junk mail settings. Account-specific junk mail
>> settings can be configured in Account Settings.
>>
>>    [X] When I mark messages as junk:
>>        (*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
>>        ( )Delete them
>>    [ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
>>    [ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging
>>
>>
>> Some mail are automatically marked as spam, but they are not moved to
>> the Junk folder till I manually mark them (again) as junk.
>>
>>
>> What should I do to have them moved to Junk folder by default,
>> automatically?
>
> Account settings - Junk-Filter - At the bottom you will find the option
> where Spam-Mails have to be moved. It seems to be independent from the
> use of account's Junk-Filter.

Yes, but that is per account, has to be repeated on every account. I ask
about the global setting.

If there is no global setting, that's a bug, IMHO.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 11/23/2023 1:58 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-11-23 22:49, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 23.11.23 um 19:27 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>>
>>>
>>> In an account settings, junk handling is not set; instead it should
>>> follow "global preferences".
>>>
>>> In the global preferences I have:
>>>
>>>     Junk
>>>     Set your default junk mail settings. Account-specific junk mail
>>> settings can be configured in Account Settings.
>>>
>>>    [X] When I mark messages as junk:
>>>        (*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
>>>        ( )Delete them
>>>    [ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
>>>    [ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging
>>>
>>>
>>> Some mail are automatically marked as spam, but they are not moved to
>>> the Junk folder till I manually mark them (again) as junk.
>>>
>>>
>>> What should I do to have them moved to Junk folder by default,
>>> automatically?
>>
>> Account settings - Junk-Filter - At the bottom you will find the option
>> where Spam-Mails have to be moved. It seems to be independent from the
>> use of account's Junk-Filter.
>
> Yes, but that is per account, has to be repeated on every account. I ask
> about the global setting.
>
> If there is no global setting, that's a bug, IMHO.
>

In general, the lack of a capability is NOT a bug. A bug represents the
software behaving incorrectly (e.g., crashing, not recognizing a valid
E-mail address). However, you can submit a bug report via Bugzilla to
request a new capability.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rosde.com/>

X (previously known as Twitter) is the place where truth goes to die.

Am 23.11.23 um 22:58 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 2023-11-23 22:49, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 23.11.23 um 19:27 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>>
>>>
>>> In an account settings, junk handling is not set; instead it should
>>> follow "global preferences".
>>>
>>> In the global preferences I have:
>>>
>>>     Junk
>>>     Set your default junk mail settings. Account-specific junk mail
>>> settings can be configured in Account Settings.
>>>
>>>    [X] When I mark messages as junk:
>>>        (*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
>>>        ( )Delete them
>>>    [ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
>>>    [ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging
>>>
>>>
>>> Some mail are automatically marked as spam, but they are not moved to
>>> the Junk folder till I manually mark them (again) as junk.
>>>
>>>
>>> What should I do to have them moved to Junk folder by default,
>>> automatically?
>>
>> Account settings - Junk-Filter - At the bottom you will find the option
>> where Spam-Mails have to be moved. It seems to be independent from the
>> use of account's Junk-Filter.
>
> Yes, but that is per account, has to be repeated on every account. I ask
> about the global setting.
>
> If there is no global setting, that's a bug, IMHO.

I do not think so. Read the instructions carefully. Personally I
appreciate the high granularity of the settings down to each account.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 2023-11-24 07:57, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 23.11.23 um 22:58 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> On 2023-11-23 22:49, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 23.11.23 um 19:27 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In an account settings, junk handling is not set; instead it should
>>>> follow "global preferences".
>>>>
>>>> In the global preferences I have:
>>>>
>>>>      Junk
>>>>      Set your default junk mail settings. Account-specific junk mail
>>>> settings can be configured in Account Settings.
>>>>
>>>>     [X] When I mark messages as junk:
>>>>         (*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
>>>>         ( )Delete them
>>>>     [ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
>>>>     [ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Some mail are automatically marked as spam, but they are not moved to
>>>> the Junk folder till I manually mark them (again) as junk.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What should I do to have them moved to Junk folder by default,
>>>> automatically?
>>>
>>> Account settings - Junk-Filter - At the bottom you will find the option
>>> where Spam-Mails have to be moved. It seems to be independent from the
>>> use of account's Junk-Filter.
>>
>> Yes, but that is per account, has to be repeated on every account. I ask
>> about the global setting.
>>
>> If there is no global setting, that's a bug, IMHO.
>
> I do not think so. Read the instructions carefully. Personally I
> appreciate the high granularity of the settings down to each account.

Yes, of course the granularity is appreciated.

But the assumed behaviour is:

There is a global configuration. If spam is detected by TB ow system,
move it to the spam folder of each account.

Then, on each account, you can define a different behaviour from the
default.

However, notice the actual global setting:

[X] When I mark messages as junk:
(*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
( )Delete them
[ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
[ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging

Certainly, when /I/ mark a message as junk it is moved. But when TB
marks an email as junk, it does nothing.

So what is happening is that TB (not the ISP) marks some mail as spam,
and I see it in the Inbox. I read it, then mark it again as spam and it
is moved.

I consider that as a bug, in the sense that I might write a bugzilla
about it.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-11-23 21:27, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 11/23/2023 10:27 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>
>> In an account settings, junk handling is not set; instead it should
>> follow "global preferences".
>>
>> In the global preferences I have:
>>
>> Junk
>> Set your default junk mail settings. Account-specific junk mail
>> settings can be configured in Account Settings.
>>
>> [X] When I mark messages as junk:
>> (*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
>> ( )Delete them
>> [ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
>> [ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging
>>
>>
>> Some mail are automatically marked as spam, but they are not moved to
>> the Junk folder till I manually mark them (again) as junk.
>>
>>
>> What should I do to have them moved to Junk folder by default,
>> automatically?
>>
>>
>
> The following is based on my older configuration:
> Windows 7
> Thunderbird 52.9.1
>
> In your global settings, check the checkbox to enable "Enable adaptive
> junk filter logging".

I activated that just after posting here.

>
> Find out if your E-mail host service uses any kind of junk-flagging
> software. If so, select your account and then Settings. On the
> Settings window, select Junk Settings. Check the checkbox for "Trust
> junk mail headers set by" and then select the software from the
> pull-down selection list. (If the software name is not in the list, ask
> here -- in a new thread -- how to add it.)

I can not do this globally, they are different providers and several
accounts.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 24.11.23 12:30, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-11-24 07:57, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> I do not think so. Read the instructions carefully. Personally I
>> appreciate the high granularity of the settings down to each account.
>
> Yes, of course the granularity is appreciated.
>
> But the assumed behaviour is:
>
> There is a global configuration. If spam is detected by TB ow system,
> move it to the spam folder of each account.
>
> Then, on each account, you can define a different behaviour from the
> default.
>
>
> However, notice the actual global setting:
>
> [X] When I mark messages as junk:
> (*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
> ( )Delete them
> [ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
> [ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging

That refers to *manually* marking mails as junk.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 2023-11-24 16:08, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 24.11.23 12:30, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-11-24 07:57, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> I do not think so. Read the instructions carefully. Personally I
>>> appreciate the high granularity of the settings down to each account.
>>
>> Yes, of course the granularity is appreciated.
>>
>> But the assumed behaviour is:
>>
>> There is a global configuration. If spam is detected by TB ow system,
>> move it to the spam folder of each account.
>>
>> Then, on each account, you can define a different behaviour from the
>> default.
>>
>>
>> However, notice the actual global setting:
>>
>> [X] When I mark messages as junk:
>> (*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
>> ( )Delete them
>> [ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
>> [ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging
>
> That refers to *manually* marking mails as junk.

I said so.

Thus, please find me the *global* setting for automatically moving spam
into the junk folder.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 24/11/2023 18:48, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-11-24 16:08, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 24.11.23 12:30, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-24 07:57, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> I do not think so. Read the instructions carefully. Personally I
>>>> appreciate the high granularity of the settings down to each account.
>>>
>>> Yes, of course the granularity is appreciated.
>>>
>>> But the assumed behaviour is:
>>>
>>>     There is a global configuration. If spam is detected by TB ow
>>> system,
>>> move it to the spam folder of each account.
>>>
>>> Then, on each account, you can define a different behaviour from the
>>> default.
>>>
>>>
>>> However, notice the actual global setting:
>>>
>>>        [X] When I mark messages as junk:
>>>            (*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
>>>            ( )Delete them
>>>        [ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
>>>        [ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging
>>
>> That refers to *manually* marking mails as junk.
>
> I said so.
>
> Thus, please find me the *global* setting for automatically moving spam
> into the junk folder.
>
On another junk issue, with TB 78.14.0 I have junk set to delete after 7
days but it never does. Any suggestions?

On 2023-11-24 19:51, MikeS wrote:
> On 24/11/2023 18:48, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-11-24 16:08, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 24.11.23 12:30, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> On 2023-11-24 07:57, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> I do not think so. Read the instructions carefully. Personally I
>>>>> appreciate the high granularity of the settings down to each account.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, of course the granularity is appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> But the assumed behaviour is:
>>>>
>>>>     There is a global configuration. If spam is detected by TB ow
>>>> system,
>>>> move it to the spam folder of each account.
>>>>
>>>> Then, on each account, you can define a different behaviour from the
>>>> default.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> However, notice the actual global setting:
>>>>
>>>>        [X] When I mark messages as junk:
>>>>            (*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
>>>>            ( )Delete them
>>>>        [ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
>>>>        [ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging
>>>
>>> That refers to *manually* marking mails as junk.
>>
>> I said so.
>>
>> Thus, please find me the *global* setting for automatically moving
>> spam into the junk folder.
>>
> On another junk issue, with TB 78.14.0 I have junk set to delete after 7
> days but it never does. Any suggestions?

Is it a filter?

Filters runs at specific times:

- Manually
- When getting new mail
- when archiving
- after sending
- periodically, every 10 minutes.

For a filter such as yours, I had to select "periodically".

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 24/11/2023 19:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-11-24 19:51, MikeS wrote:
>> On 24/11/2023 18:48, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-24 16:08, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 24.11.23 12:30, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-11-24 07:57, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>> I do not think so. Read the instructions carefully. Personally I
>>>>>> appreciate the high granularity of the settings down to each account.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, of course the granularity is appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the assumed behaviour is:
>>>>>
>>>>>     There is a global configuration. If spam is detected by TB ow
>>>>> system,
>>>>> move it to the spam folder of each account.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then, on each account, you can define a different behaviour from the
>>>>> default.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> However, notice the actual global setting:
>>>>>
>>>>>        [X] When I mark messages as junk:
>>>>>            (*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
>>>>>            ( )Delete them
>>>>>        [ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
>>>>>        [ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging
>>>>
>>>> That refers to *manually* marking mails as junk.
>>>
>>> I said so.
>>>
>>> Thus, please find me the *global* setting for automatically moving
>>> spam into the junk folder.
>>>
>> On another junk issue, with TB 78.14.0 I have junk set to delete after
>> 7 days but it never does. Any suggestions?
>
> Is it a filter?
>
> Filters runs at specific times:
>
>  - Manually
>  - When getting new mail
>  - when archiving
>  - after sending
>  - periodically, every 10 minutes.
>
>
>
> For a filter such as yours, I had to select "periodically".
>
>
Its a tick box junk option in the settings of each account. No idea if
its a filter.

On 2023-11-24 22:37, MikeS wrote:
> On 24/11/2023 19:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-11-24 19:51, MikeS wrote:

>>> On another junk issue, with TB 78.14.0 I have junk set to delete
>>> after 7 days but it never does. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Is it a filter?
>>
>> Filters runs at specific times:
>>
>>   - Manually
>>   - When getting new mail
>>   - when archiving
>>   - after sending
>>   - periodically, every 10 minutes.
>>
>>
>>
>> For a filter such as yours, I had to select "periodically".
>>
>>
> Its a tick box junk option in the settings of each account. No idea if
> its a filter.

No, that's not a filter.
Ok, I see it. Me, I'd never select that option, personal conviction :-)

So sorry, I do not know why it doesn't work, and I'm not going to test
it ;-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Am 24.11.23 um 22:46 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 2023-11-24 22:37, MikeS wrote:
>> On 24/11/2023 19:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-24 19:51, MikeS wrote:
>
>
>>>> On another junk issue, with TB 78.14.0 I have junk set to delete
>>>> after 7 days but it never does. Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Is it a filter?
>>>
>>> Filters runs at specific times:
>>>
>>>   - Manually
>>>   - When getting new mail
>>>   - when archiving
>>>   - after sending
>>>   - periodically, every 10 minutes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For a filter such as yours, I had to select "periodically".
>>>
>>>
>> Its a tick box junk option in the settings of each account. No idea if
>> its a filter.
>
> No, that's not a filter.

It is. A preset internal filter.

> Ok, I see it. Me, I'd never select that option, personal conviction :-)

Nonsense. Lord let rain some brain!

> So sorry, I do not know why it doesn't work, and I'm not going to test
> it ;-)

Your PC will start a thermonuclear incineration. *LOL*

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 2023-11-24 16:08, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 24.11.23 12:30, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-24 07:57, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> I do not think so. Read the instructions carefully. Personally I
>>>> appreciate the high granularity of the settings down to each account.
>>>
>>> Yes, of course the granularity is appreciated.
>>>
>>> But the assumed behaviour is:
>>>
>>> There is a global configuration. If spam is detected by TB ow system,
>>> move it to the spam folder of each account.
>>>
>>> Then, on each account, you can define a different behaviour from the
>>> default.
>>>
>>>
>>> However, notice the actual global setting:
>>>
>>> [X] When I mark messages as junk:
>>> (*) Move them to the account’s "Junk" folder
>>> ( )Delete them
>>> [ ] Mark messages determined to be Junk as read
>>> [ ] Enable adaptive junk filter logging
>>
>> That refers to *manually* marking mails as junk.
>
> I said so.
>
> Thus, please find me the *global* setting for automatically moving spam
> into the junk folder.

As you were told, the global setting is for when you manually flag a
message as spam. There is no global setting for /automatic/ junk
filtering. You have to configure/enable junk filtering on a per-account
basis.

Bayesian filtering works on weighting of spam/ham words recorded in a
database. Automatic filtering doesn't mark words as spam or ham. The
weighting has to be updated by you when you manually classify a message
as spam or ham. Automatic filtering uses whatever has already been
recorded for weighting within the Bayes database. If you never manually
classify messages as spam, the Bayes database never gets updated to
weight those words as spam. You'll end up having the initial database
throughout your use of Tbird; i.e., it never gets updated, so it remains
as ineffective as when initialized. It's *you* voting on whether
messages are spam or ham that affects the weighting recorded in the
database, and it is that database used thereafter to filter on those
results.

In the past, as part of MS Outlook's updates, Microsoft would push a
baseline Bayes database to help update the current one used by Outlook
(but did not affect your own prior scoring). I don't know if Tbird ever
gets Bayes database updates, so it is completely up to you to flag which
messages are spam or ham. Automatic filtering on weights recorded in
the Bayes database is useless unless there are actual weighting you
added into the database. Bayes guesses based on prior behavior, so you
have to update the recorded behavior. If you never participate in
voting on spam/ham, the Bayes database never gets updated, and is as
inept as the day you installed Tbird. You have to *teach* the filter
based on what you perceive as spam or ham.

If have have 30 accounts, you'll have to visit those 30 accounts to set
the junk filtering options in each account.

On 27.11.23 07:13, VanguardLH wrote:
> I don't know if Tbird ever
> gets Bayes database updates, so it is completely up to you to flag which
> messages are spam or ham.

You do not understand the concept of Bayes statistical filters. There is
no such thing as a prefabricated data base for everyone that will be
updated. That is done by the provider filters like SpamAssassin or others.

The idea of Bayes filters is to individualise spam recogiontion by
statistical methods.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)