Hi all,

Following an idea recently proposed by Gérald Niel (a contributor in
fr.*) and the comparison to the Fediverse made by Rayner Lucas and
Tristan Miller in a recent video, couldn't we work out a way to gateway
Usenet newsgroups with the Fediverse, using the ActivityPub protocol?

https://activitypub.rocks/

The Actor could be a newsgroup. Usenet articles posted to gatewayed
newsgroups could be turned into a Note in ActivityPub, and received
responses turned into an article into the newsgroup.

Maybe we would need the presence of a dedicated header field to consider
an individual as an Actor, as its username needs being unique and may
not be derived from only Injection-Info data (as a server name can
change and a user can migrate to another server). The messages would
then need being signed to prevent forgeries.
It is more complex to do, so an Actor could only be a newsgroup to begin
with.

Just for opening the discussion about a possible usefulness of such a
gateway. Seems like it will grow in importance these next years!

--
Julien ÉLIE

« – I see the world didn't end yesterday.
– Are you sure? » (Alan Moore, _Watchmen_)

This will be great, I am the admin of a mastodon server hispagatos.space
and I use nntp/usenet on a daily basics, I think lemmy(also part of the
fediverse ) that is focus on groups like reddit, will be easier to
gateway <=> both ways.

search for "lemmy fediverse"

On 2023-07-08, Julien ÉLIE <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Following an idea recently proposed by Gérald Niel (a contributor in
> fr.*) and the comparison to the Fediverse made by Rayner Lucas and
> Tristan Miller in a recent video, couldn't we work out a way to gateway
> Usenet newsgroups with the Fediverse, using the ActivityPub protocol?
>
> https://activitypub.rocks/
>
> The Actor could be a newsgroup. Usenet articles posted to gatewayed
> newsgroups could be turned into a Note in ActivityPub, and received
> responses turned into an article into the newsgroup.
>
> Maybe we would need the presence of a dedicated header field to consider
> an individual as an Actor, as its username needs being unique and may
> not be derived from only Injection-Info data (as a server name can
> change and a user can migrate to another server). The messages would
> then need being signed to prevent forgeries.
> It is more complex to do, so an Actor could only be a newsgroup to begin
> with.
>
>
> Just for opening the discussion about a possible usefulness of such a
> gateway. Seems like it will grow in importance these next years!
>

--
{gemini,https}://{,rek2.}hispagatos.org
https://hispagatos.space/@rek2

For your reference, records indicate that
=?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=c3=89LIE?= <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:

> couldn't we work out a way to gateway
> Usenet newsgroups with the Fediverse, using the ActivityPub protocol?

Why? What does it benefit either side? What makes ActivityPub superior
to NNTP? Why must everything be web-ified?

I’ve written a Usenet client. It’s not hard. I’ve thought of using it to
transform messages for use in other apps, but I haven’t found any
compelling reason to do so.

Honestly, the abstract task of transporting data/messages between computers
is an over-solved problem. Same is true for message formats. As a result,
the main issue that needs to be solved is organizing the vast amounts of
data that we have access to.

Social networks do *not* help with that in my experience, because they’re
all about a “cult of personality” that is devoid of any sense of
netiquette. They have served to disprove

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_Arcade#%22Greater_Internet_Fuckwad_Theory%22>

For as much trolling and off-topic ranting Usenet has seen, it cannot
compare to the damage done to society by modern social networks. I’m
good with putting in zero effort to keep a barrier between those two
worlds in place.

> Seems like it will grow in importance these next years!

As seemingly do all new technologies, until reality sets in and people
somehow convince themselves some even *newer* technology is the thing that
will solve all the world’s human problems.

--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly

Doc O'Leary , <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> wrote:
> Why? What does it benefit either side? What makes ActivityPub superior
> to NNTP? Why must everything be web-ified?

In my opinion, NNTP is much better. ActivityPub is complicated and messy
and just is not very good (this is true of a lot of W3C specifications).
I dislike this "everything web-ified" modern idea too, which is why I am
still using NNTP.

(I also don't like Discord and Matrix; I use IRC.)

> I've written a Usenet client. It's not hard. I've thought of using it to
> transform messages for use in other apps, but I haven't found any
> compelling reason to do so.

So have I (it is the one I use, as can be seen by the User-Agent header
of this message).

I have written an extension to send/receive messages on mailing lists
from sourcehut. It may also be possible to write extensions for dealing
with other stuff too, although I have not done so at this time.

--
Don't laugh at the moon when it is day time in France.

On 2023-07-09, Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> wrote:
> For your reference, records indicate that
>=?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=c3=89LIE?= <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> couldn't we work out a way to gateway
>> Usenet newsgroups with the Fediverse, using the ActivityPub protocol?
>
> Why? What does it benefit either side? What makes ActivityPub superior
> to NNTP? Why must everything be web-ified?
>
> I’ve written a Usenet client. It’s not hard. I’ve thought of using it to
> transform messages for use in other apps, but I haven’t found any
> compelling reason to do so.
>
> Honestly, the abstract task of transporting data/messages between computers
> is an over-solved problem. Same is true for message formats. As a result,
> the main issue that needs to be solved is organizing the vast amounts of
> data that we have access to.
>
> Social networks do *not* help with that in my experience, because they’re
> all about a “cult of personality” that is devoid of any sense of
> netiquette. They have served to disprove
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_Arcade#%22Greater_Internet_Fuckwad_Theory%22>
>
> For as much trolling and off-topic ranting Usenet has seen, it cannot
> compare to the damage done to society by modern social networks. I’m
> good with putting in zero effort to keep a barrier between those two
> worlds in place.
>
>> Seems like it will grow in importance these next years!
>
> As seemingly do all new technologies, until reality sets in and people
> somehow convince themselves some even *newer* technology is the thing that
> will solve all the world’s human problems.
>

I would like the reverse. Mastodon->NNTP, so I could see the threaded
conversations in NNTP, and maybe with images being uuencoded.

Also, all the content would be stored in my HD as slrnpull would
work as always.

There was something like that for Reddit with NNTPit.

On 2023-07-09, rek2 hispagatos <rek2@hispagatos.org.invalid> wrote:
> This will be great, I am the admin of a mastodon server hispagatos.space
> and I use nntp/usenet on a daily basics, I think lemmy(also part of the
> fediverse ) that is focus on groups like reddit, will be easier to
> gateway <=> both ways.
>
> search for "lemmy fediverse"
>
> On 2023-07-08, Julien ÉLIE <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Following an idea recently proposed by Gérald Niel (a contributor in
>> fr.*) and the comparison to the Fediverse made by Rayner Lucas and
>> Tristan Miller in a recent video, couldn't we work out a way to gateway
>> Usenet newsgroups with the Fediverse, using the ActivityPub protocol?
>>
>> https://activitypub.rocks/
>>
>> The Actor could be a newsgroup. Usenet articles posted to gatewayed
>> newsgroups could be turned into a Note in ActivityPub, and received
>> responses turned into an article into the newsgroup.
>>
>> Maybe we would need the presence of a dedicated header field to consider
>> an individual as an Actor, as its username needs being unique and may
>> not be derived from only Injection-Info data (as a server name can
>> change and a user can migrate to another server). The messages would
>> then need being signed to prevent forgeries.
>> It is more complex to do, so an Actor could only be a newsgroup to begin
>> with.
>>
>>
>> Just for opening the discussion about a possible usefulness of such a
>> gateway. Seems like it will grow in importance these next years!
>>
>
>

I'd like the opposite. A Mastodon client<->NNTP spool, like NNTPIT.
As I try to use Usenet on a weekly basis, it would be the best offline setup
ever.

>>
>> For as much trolling and off-topic ranting Usenet has seen, it cannot
>> compare to the damage done to society by modern social networks. I’m
>> good with putting in zero effort to keep a barrier between those two
>> worlds in place.
>>
>>> Seems like it will grow in importance these next years!
>>
>> As seemingly do all new technologies, until reality sets in and people
>> somehow convince themselves some even *newer* technology is the thing that
>> will solve all the world’s human problems.
>>
>
> I would like the reverse. Mastodon->NNTP, so I could see the threaded
> conversations in NNTP, and maybe with images being uuencoded.
>
> Also, all the content would be stored in my HD as slrnpull would
> work as always.
>
> There was something like that for Reddit with NNTPit.

I will really be interested in this, one way, two ways or the best
solution will be to choose in the config how we want posts to flow.

I think the best fediverse service to run with usenet is LEMMY is
threaded, group, and posts.

Let me know if I can help,
My languages are C, GO and RUST.

Happy Hacking
ReK2

--
- {gemini,https}://{,rek2.}hispagatos.org - mastodon: @rek2@hispagatos.space
- [https|gemini]://2600.Madrid - https://hispagatos.space/@rek2
- https://keyoxide.org/A31C7CE19D9C58084EA42BA26C0B0D11E9303EC5

>
> I'd like the opposite. A Mastodon client<->NNTP spool, like NNTPIT.
> As I try to use Usenet on a weekly basis, it would be the best offline setup
> ever.

The ideal will be to have both ways and the bot admin to choose.

--
- {gemini,https}://{,rek2.}hispagatos.org - mastodon: @rek2@hispagatos.space
- [https|gemini]://2600.Madrid - https://hispagatos.space/@rek2
- https://keyoxide.org/A31C7CE19D9C58084EA42BA26C0B0D11E9303EC5

rek2 hispagatos <rek2@hispagatos.org.invalid> writes:

>> I would like the reverse. Mastodon->NNTP, so I could see the threaded
>> conversations in NNTP, and maybe with images being uuencoded.

>> Also, all the content would be stored in my HD as slrnpull would work
>> as always.

>> There was something like that for Reddit with NNTPit.

> I will really be interested in this, one way, two ways or the best
> solution will be to choose in the config how we want posts to flow.

> I think the best fediverse service to run with usenet is LEMMY is
> threaded, group, and posts.

Since folks are talking about gatewaying Netnews into another medium, just
wanted to make sure that everyone has seen this. Back when I was doing a
lot of active gatewaying, I tried to capture some of the critical
principles, although it got edited down a lot compared to all the things
that could be said about gatewaying.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5537#section-3.10

--
Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Please post questions rather than mailing me directly.
<https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/questions.html> explains why.