I have an account with the Eternal September news server. I have configured
it in Windows Live Mail on Windows 7 without any problem, but when I try to
use the same config settings in Thunderbird on Windows 10, I get a bad
username/password error, even though the login ID and password are the same
as I use for WLM. I've verified with MailPassView what username/password WLM
is actually using.

I've configured a newsgroup account in Thunderbird for a different news
server (the one that my ISP uses) and that works fine - except that at the
moment (a temporary error, I'm sure) that server is prompting for
username/password whereas normally it allows anonymous access and
authenticates by WAN IP address being in the range that the ISP issues.
Hence the need to configure the Eternal September news server instead.

Can someone tell me the exact settings that Thunderbird needs to work with
Eternal September.

(Posting this message from WLM/Win 7!)

NY wrote:

> Can someone tell me the exact settings that Thunderbird needs to work
> with Eternal September.

Pretty much the only non-default setting it needs is
"always request authentication when connecting"

NY wrote:
> I have an account with the Eternal September news server. I have
> configured it in Windows Live Mail on Windows 7 without any problem, but
> when I try to use the same config settings in Thunderbird on Windows 10,
> I get a bad username/password error, even though the login ID and
> password are the same as I use for WLM. I've verified with MailPassView
> what username/password WLM is actually using.
>
> I've configured a newsgroup account in Thunderbird for a different news
> server (the one that my ISP uses) and that works fine - except that at
> the moment (a temporary error, I'm sure) that server is prompting for
> username/password whereas normally it allows anonymous access and
> authenticates by WAN IP address being in the range that the ISP issues.
> Hence the need to configure the Eternal September news server instead.
>
> Can someone tell me the exact settings that Thunderbird needs to work
> with Eternal September.
>
> (Posting this message from WLM/Win 7!)

I recently set up account on Betterbird, and the thing went like a knife
through butter. It does it all for you, with the small exception of
authentication that Andy Burns mentioned.
All you need is the server name; news.eternal-september.org

A very detailed guide is here, written 12 years ago but still valid;
https://tinyurl.com/yrmyopyt

Ed

On 11/14/2023 6:25 AM, NY wrote:
> I have an account with the Eternal September news server. I have configured
> it in Windows Live Mail on Windows 7 without any problem, but when I try to
> use the same config settings in Thunderbird on Windows 10, I get a bad
> username/password error, even though the login ID and password are the same
> as I use for WLM. I've verified with MailPassView what username/password WLM
> is actually using.
>
> I've configured a newsgroup account in Thunderbird for a different news
> server (the one that my ISP uses) and that works fine - except that at the
> moment (a temporary error, I'm sure) that server is prompting for
> username/password whereas normally it allows anonymous access and
> authenticates by WAN IP address being in the range that the ISP issues.
> Hence the need to configure the Eternal September news server instead.
>
> Can someone tell me the exact settings that Thunderbird needs to work with
> Eternal September.
>
> (Posting this message from WLM/Win 7!)
>
For me, using WIN 10 64-bit Home, TB version 115.4.2 (64-bit)

Server settings: news.eternal-september.org
Security: SSL/TLS
The second Server Settings section: make sure the "always request
authentication when connection to this server" check box is checked.
Other check boxes are at your preference
Message Storage: I use the default settings for file locations
Default Text Encoding: Western (ISO 8859-1)

Outgoing Server (SMTP): for me- [my actual gmail address -
smtp.gmail.com] without the brackets
Port 465
Authentication Method: OAuth2
Connection Security: SSL/TLS

Some of these may be gmail specific, especially the outgoing server
settings. Check the web site for the e-mail account you're using for
configuring your outgoing server settings for information re: port,
authentication and security settings for that e-mail server.

On 11/14/2023 6:25 AM, NY wrote:
> I have an account with the Eternal September news server. I have configured it in Windows Live Mail on Windows 7 without any problem, but when I try to use the same config settings in Thunderbird on Windows 10, I get a bad username/password error, even though the login ID and password are the same as I use for WLM. I've verified with MailPassView what username/password WLM is actually using.
>
> I've configured a newsgroup account in Thunderbird for a different news server (the one that my ISP uses) and that works fine - except that at the moment (a temporary error, I'm sure) that server is prompting for username/password whereas normally it allows anonymous access and authenticates by WAN IP address being in the range that the ISP issues. Hence the need to configure the Eternal September news server instead.
>
> Can someone tell me the exact settings that Thunderbird needs to work with Eternal September.
>
> (Posting this message from WLM/Win 7!)

E-S ---+--- Always Request Authentication (ticked) ---+--- Password good ? --------- 100,000 groups in list
| |
| +--- Password bad ? ---------- TBird dialog prompts
| for USER and PASS
+--- (unticked) ----- 12 groups in list
can post to eternal-september.support

If you get a response that does not fit that diagram, then Thunderbird
is not recognizing whatever Ray is sending as a response after PASS is received.
Every once in a while, the authentication server on E-S might need the
odd "tweak" from the admin. (The arch of the server was changed recently,
and it now consists of a transit server plus the traditional E-S core, and
this was done to make SpamAssassin filtering seamless.)

If you use the Port 119 option, that is Plaintext, and
you can use Wireshark to view the messages sent and received.
You can see your USER and PASS on the wire this way. See
what E-S is really receiving, for authentication.

https://www.eternal-september.org/index.php?showpage=techinfo

news.eternal-september.org Port : 119 (NNTP)

Since Thunderbird gets bent out of shape, when you change
the server name, you might need to create a brand new
entry to play with that. But if you were using

news.eternal-september.org Port : 563 (NNTP)

you could change to this and use Wireshark (wireshark.org)

news.eternal-september.org Port : 119 (NNTP)

This shows me checking my password, which is currently working.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/Z51jtsWZ/wireshark.gif

*******

You should *always* keep backup copies of your main Profile folder.
The one that is gigabytes in size :-)

While making modifications like this, you can then roll back once
you have determined the "success formula".

I messed up a server name, but fortunately I had a backup of the
profile, so I could roll my stupidity back.

Paul

On 2023-11-14 16:22, Paul wrote:
> On 11/14/2023 6:25 AM, NY wrote:

....

>> Can someone tell me the exact settings that Thunderbird needs to work with Eternal September.
>>
>> (Posting this message from WLM/Win 7!)
>
> E-S ---+--- Always Request Authentication (ticked) ---+--- Password good ? --------- 100,000 groups in list
> | |
> | +--- Password bad ? ---------- TBird dialog prompts
> | for USER and PASS
> +--- (unticked) ----- 12 groups in list
> can post to eternal-september.support
>
> If you get a response that does not fit that diagram, then Thunderbird
> is not recognizing whatever Ray is sending as a response after PASS is received.
> Every once in a while, the authentication server on E-S might need the
> odd "tweak" from the admin. (The arch of the server was changed recently,
> and it now consists of a transit server plus the traditional E-S core, and
> this was done to make SpamAssassin filtering seamless.)

They use SA on news? That's interesting. :-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Paul wrote:
>
>> (The arch of the server was changed recently, and it now consists
>> of a transit server plus the traditional E-S core, and this was
>> done to make SpamAssassin filtering seamless.)
>
> They use SA on news? That's interesting. :-)

The level of spam from google groups users has ballooned recently, but
Ray didn't want to block all google groups users, adding SpamAssassin
did cause a few hiccups, but hopefully E-S is better for it now ...

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>On 2023-11-14 16:22, Paul wrote:

>>. . .

>>Every once in a while, the authentication server on E-S might need the
>>odd "tweak" from the admin. (The arch of the server was changed recently,
>>and it now consists of a transit server plus the traditional E-S core, and
>>this was done to make SpamAssassin filtering seamless.)

>They use SA on news? That's interesting. :-)

Ray uses a combination of SpamAssassin and Cleanfeed, from which he
generates NoCeMs.

On 2023-11-14 19:49, Andy Burns wrote:
>
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Paul wrote:
>>
>>> (The arch of the server was changed recently, and it now consistst
>>> of a transit server plus the traditional E-S core, and this was
>>> done to make SpamAssassin filtering seamless.)
>>
>> They use SA on news? That's interesting. :-)
>
> The level of spam from google groups users has ballooned recently, but
> Ray didn't want to block all google groups users, adding SpamAssassin
> did cause a few hiccups, but hopefully E-S is better for it now ...

Yes, I agree with this choice.

I am using Individual.NET. I notice that some Thai spam gets in, but
later gets removed upstream, and I have to click on Thunderbird to
remove all expired messages. So I guess that the spam gets initially
published, then some job removes them as a postprocess.

It was much worse a week or two ago, though, I had to implement my own
filters in TB to remove them.

Some one mentioned Google adding some Captcha controls for posting.

I miss TB not having Spam filters on news as it has on email.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>. . .

>I am using Individual.NET. I notice that some Thai spam gets in, but
>later gets removed upstream, and I have to click on Thunderbird to
>remove all expired messages. So I guess that the spam gets initially
>published, then some job removes them as a postprocess.

Ask individual.net to process the NoCeMs, then. It sounds like they
aren't. Ray has been providing them for anybody to use.

>. . .

Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Some one mentioned Google adding some Captcha controls for posting.

I think they've made some groups (on their own web interface) read-only.

On 15.11.23 03:13, Andy Burns wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Some one mentioned Google adding some Captcha controls for posting.
>
> I think they've made some groups (on their own web interface) read-only.

Would be absurd.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Am 14.11.23 um 12:25 schrieb NY:
> I have an account with the Eternal September news server. I have configured
> it in Windows Live Mail on Windows 7 without any problem, but when I try to
> use the same config settings in Thunderbird on Windows 10, I get a bad
> username/password error, even though the login ID and password are the same
> as I use for WLM. I've verified with MailPassView what username/password WLM
> is actually using.
>
> I've configured a newsgroup account in Thunderbird for a different news
> server (the one that my ISP uses) and that works fine - except that at the
> moment (a temporary error, I'm sure) that server is prompting for
> username/password whereas normally it allows anonymous access and
> authenticates by WAN IP address being in the range that the ISP issues.
> Hence the need to configure the Eternal September news server instead.
>
> Can someone tell me the exact settings that Thunderbird needs to work with
> Eternal September.
>
> (Posting this message from WLM/Win 7!)

Technische Informationen

Clienteinstellungen

Der Zugang zu eternal-september.org ist über folgende Server und Ports
möglich:

Servername: news.eternal-september.org
Port : 119
Port : 563 (verschlüsselte Verbindung (SSL))

Servername: reader80.eternal-september.org
Port : 80

Servername: reader443.eternal-september.org
Port : 443 (verschlüsselte Verbindung (SSL)

Die Anzahl gleichzeitiger Verbindungen zum Server ist auf 4 begrenzt.

http://www.eternal-september.org/index.php?showpage=techinfo

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 11/15/2023 1:35 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 15.11.23 03:13, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> Some one mentioned Google adding some Captcha controls for posting.
>>
>> I think they've made some groups (on their own web interface) read-only.
>
> Would be absurd.
>

Google switched off groups.google.com for comp.lang.c ,
and I think they turned off a couple others as well.

The Google employees certainly have their own "style"
when it comes to fixing stuff.

Paul

On 2023-11-16 00:56, Paul wrote:
> On 11/15/2023 1:35 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 15.11.23 03:13, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some one mentioned Google adding some Captcha controls for posting.
>>>
>>> I think they've made some groups (on their own web interface) read-only.
>>
>> Would be absurd.
>>
>
> Google switched off groups.google.com for comp.lang.c ,
> and I think they turned off a couple others as well.
>
> The Google employees certainly have their own "style"
> when it comes to fixing stuff.

Maybe it is temporary while they figure out what to do long term? :-?

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.