Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
SSD?

Next question. Assuming I'm right about his not being able to
restore from his backup, if I were to install Win 7 and Office 2010 on
a new SSD using my computer, would he be able to plug the SSD into his
computer and have it work as required? He is NOT remotely computer
literate, so unless it works out of the box with only minor fixes that
I could help him with over the phone, it's a no go. Thanks!

>>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

jetjock graced us with on 7/22/2021 9:17 AM:
> Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
> backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
> all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
> question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
> SSD?
>
It depends. Both Seagate and Western Digital offer a free relabeled
version of Acronis Backup named, DiscWizard*, which does allow one to
produce a cloned disk backup, as well as a restoreable image(s), more at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronis_True_Image#Operation

The DiscWizard limitation for backup and restoration is that at least
one Seagate harddrive must be installed on the system before it will
work. The Acronis True Image software does not impose this limitation
but is not free.

*Note: this assumes BiL used DiscWizard to backup. If another backup
method was used then that would also depend. Does BiL know what backup
software was used?

> Next question. Assuming I'm right about his not being able to
> restore from his backup, if I were to install Win 7 and Office 2010 on
> a new SSD using my computer, would he be able to plug the SSD into his
> computer and have it work as required? He is NOT remotely computer
> literate, so unless it works out of the box with only minor fixes that
> I could help him with over the phone, it's a no go. Thanks!
>
Regrettably, that also depends. There are a slew of SSD models out
there. Some that interface directly to motherboard; others through SATA
ports, &c more at:
https://blogs.umass.edu/Techbytes/2018/02/23/types-of-ssds-and-which-ones-to-buy/

If your brother is not familiar with hardware internals, he should seek
knowledgeable on-site advice to best determine which type of SSD would
bext fit his needs. Note, SSDs generally have a significant cost per
byte penalty over harddrives.

Good luck.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:42:01 -0700, Sailfish
<NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:

>jetjock graced us with on 7/22/2021 9:17 AM:
>> Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
>> backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
>> all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
>> question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
>> SSD?
>>
>It depends. Both Seagate and Western Digital offer a free relabeled
>version of Acronis Backup named, DiscWizard*, which does allow one to
>produce a cloned disk backup, as well as a restoreable image(s), more at:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronis_True_Image#Operation

From what he can tell me, he did not use DiskWizard. His backup looks
just like a copy of what a normal hard drive looks like. There is a
long list of folders including Program Files (x86), Microsoft Office,
Malware Bytes, etc. Later now. I was able to do a Team Viewer of his
back up and verify that it is not an image.
>
>The DiscWizard limitation for backup and restoration is that at least
>one Seagate harddrive must be installed on the system before it will
>work. The Acronis True Image software does not impose this limitation
>but is not free.
>
>*Note: this assumes BiL used DiscWizard to backup. If another backup
>method was used then that would also depend. Does BiL know what backup
>software was used?
>
>> Next question. Assuming I'm right about his not being able to
>> restore from his backup, if I were to install Win 7 and Office 2010 on
>> a new SSD using my computer, would he be able to plug the SSD into his
>> computer and have it work as required? He is NOT remotely computer
>> literate, so unless it works out of the box with only minor fixes that
>> I could help him with over the phone, it's a no go. Thanks!
>>
>Regrettably, that also depends. There are a slew of SSD models out
>there. Some that interface directly to motherboard; others through SATA
>ports, &c more at:
>https://blogs.umass.edu/Techbytes/2018/02/23/types-of-ssds-and-which-ones-to-buy/

Thanks for the link. Very useful. It would just be a SATA drive to
replace his old one on an approx. 10 yr old HP P6-2114. Unless I hear
from someone shortly that this would be a terrible idea, I'm just
going to order a Samsung 860 Pro SSD and put Win 7 on it for him, mail
it to him and use Team Viewer to help him install any program CDs he
has.
>
>If your brother is not familiar with hardware internals, he should seek
>knowledgeable on-site advice to best determine which type of SSD would
>bext fit his needs. Note, SSDs generally have a significant cost per
>byte penalty over harddrives.

He lives in a small town and the guy he goes to keeps trying to sell
him a new machine. When he asks him about restoring, he keeps giving
him a song and dance about "not being licensed" for Win 7! I told him
he needed a new computer guy. ;-) Seems funny that he was "licensed"
when he brought the machine in to be fixed, but once he found out the
drive was FUBARED, he suddenly wasn't "licensed" anymore.
>
>Good luck.

Many thanks for the help.

>>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

On 7/22/2021 4:07 PM, jetjock wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:42:01 -0700, Sailfish
> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>
>> jetjock graced us with on 7/22/2021 9:17 AM:
>>> Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
>>> backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
>>> all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
>>> question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
>>> SSD?
>>>
>> It depends. Both Seagate and Western Digital offer a free relabeled
>> version of Acronis Backup named, DiscWizard*, which does allow one to
>> produce a cloned disk backup, as well as a restoreable image(s), more at:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronis_True_Image#Operation
>
> From what he can tell me, he did not use DiskWizard. His backup looks
> just like a copy of what a normal hard drive looks like. There is a
> long list of folders including Program Files (x86), Microsoft Office,
> Malware Bytes, etc. Later now. I was able to do a Team Viewer of his
> back up and verify that it is not an image.
>>
>> The DiscWizard limitation for backup and restoration is that at least
>> one Seagate harddrive must be installed on the system before it will
>> work. The Acronis True Image software does not impose this limitation
>> but is not free.
>>
>> *Note: this assumes BiL used DiscWizard to backup. If another backup
>> method was used then that would also depend. Does BiL know what backup
>> software was used?
>>
>>> Next question. Assuming I'm right about his not being able to
>>> restore from his backup, if I were to install Win 7 and Office 2010 on
>>> a new SSD using my computer, would he be able to plug the SSD into his
>>> computer and have it work as required? He is NOT remotely computer
>>> literate, so unless it works out of the box with only minor fixes that
>>> I could help him with over the phone, it's a no go. Thanks!
>>>
>> Regrettably, that also depends. There are a slew of SSD models out
>> there. Some that interface directly to motherboard; others through SATA
>> ports, &c more at:
>> https://blogs.umass.edu/Techbytes/2018/02/23/types-of-ssds-and-which-ones-to-buy/
>
> Thanks for the link. Very useful. It would just be a SATA drive to
> replace his old one on an approx. 10 yr old HP P6-2114. Unless I hear
> from someone shortly that this would be a terrible idea, I'm just
> going to order a Samsung 860 Pro SSD and put Win 7 on it for him, mail
> it to him and use Team Viewer to help him install any program CDs he
> has.
>>
>> If your brother is not familiar with hardware internals, he should seek
>> knowledgeable on-site advice to best determine which type of SSD would
>> bext fit his needs. Note, SSDs generally have a significant cost per
>> byte penalty over harddrives.
>
> He lives in a small town and the guy he goes to keeps trying to sell
> him a new machine. When he asks him about restoring, he keeps giving
> him a song and dance about "not being licensed" for Win 7! I told him
> he needed a new computer guy. ;-) Seems funny that he was "licensed"
> when he brought the machine in to be fixed, but once he found out the
> drive was FUBARED, he suddenly wasn't "licensed" anymore.
>>
>> Good luck.
>
> Many thanks for the help.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
>
Samsung SSD's come with SamsungMagician and I think part of Acronis for
backups. Caution using SamsungMagician on your PC because may rename SSD
to C:(boot) and your boot to another letter.

jetjock wrote:
> Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
> backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
> all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
> question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
> SSD?
>
> Next question. Assuming I'm right about his not being able to
> restore from his backup, if I were to install Win 7 and Office 2010 on
> a new SSD using my computer, would he be able to plug the SSD into his
> computer and have it work as required? He is NOT remotely computer
> literate, so unless it works out of the box with only minor fixes that
> I could help him with over the phone, it's a no go. Thanks!
>
> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

This is the very definition of the "bad news bears".

https://www.seagate.com/ca/en/support/kb/seagate-dashboard-installation-backup-verify-restore-and-features-006148en/

"Note: The software is very sensitive to changes, even small modifications
(whether by you or a program) will result in the data being backed
up again.

The software does not backup programs, system files,
hidden folders/items.

Some software like Outlook, Quicken, and Quickbooks allow you to
backup/export data to the Seagate drive. In these instances
you will want to follow those instructions.
"

If the COA is also scratched off the laptop, I'd
find another brother-in-law :-)

Did the esteemed gentleman pop blank optical media
into the drive, as instructed by the OS/computer ?

My Acer asked for four DVDs or so, to make a backup
copy of Windows 7 for restoration. This was probably
Home Premium. I still have the DVDs.

If he has those DVDs, just send him a blank SSD.
Booting off the DVDs, starts the recovery sequence onto
the SSD.

This won't put Office on there. That will be some separate
work over the phone for it.

But with the OS image missing from any backup, there won't
be key extraction or anything else to use.

There are probably twenty or more backup programs, even
the DiscWarrior would have worked, to make this mess, less
of a mess.

Paul

On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 19:10:44 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>jetjock wrote:
>> Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
>> backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
>> all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
>> question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
>> SSD?
>>
>> Next question. Assuming I'm right about his not being able to
>> restore from his backup, if I were to install Win 7 and Office 2010 on
>> a new SSD using my computer, would he be able to plug the SSD into his
>> computer and have it work as required? He is NOT remotely computer
>> literate, so unless it works out of the box with only minor fixes that
>> I could help him with over the phone, it's a no go. Thanks!
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
>
>This is the very definition of the "bad news bears".
>
>https://www.seagate.com/ca/en/support/kb/seagate-dashboard-installation-backup-verify-restore-and-features-006148en/
>
> "Note: The software is very sensitive to changes, even small modifications
> (whether by you or a program) will result in the data being backed
> up again.
>
> The software does not backup programs, system files,
> hidden folders/items.
>
> Some software like Outlook, Quicken, and Quickbooks allow you to
> backup/export data to the Seagate drive. In these instances
> you will want to follow those instructions.
> "
>
>If the COA is also scratched off the laptop, I'd
>find another brother-in-law :-)
>
>Did the esteemed gentleman pop blank optical media
>into the drive, as instructed by the OS/computer ?

No. I'm afraid that he is very handy with tools, but when it comes to
computers his knowledge stops with the On-Off switch.
>
>My Acer asked for four DVDs or so, to make a backup
>copy of Windows 7 for restoration. This was probably
>Home Premium. I still have the DVDs.
>
>If he has those DVDs, just send him a blank SSD.
>Booting off the DVDs, starts the recovery sequence onto
>the SSD.

If only! :-) The dive apparently is toast now as it will not boot at
all. We tried doing an F-8 boot and repair, but it was unable to
repair. His computer guy (whom I don't trust) said the drive was
shot.
>
>This won't put Office on there. That will be some separate
>work over the phone for it.

How much can I pre load on the new drive i.e Office 2010,
MalwareBytes, Acronis TIH before it will balk when he plugs it into
his computer as his OS boot drive? I'm pretty sure that Win 7 and
Office will both have to activated on HIS computer to work, or could
they be activated on mine using the Toolkit (DAZ Loader)?
>
>But with the OS image missing from any backup, there won't
>be key extraction or anything else to use.
>
>There are probably twenty or more backup programs, even
>the DiscWarrior would have worked, to make this mess, less
>of a mess.

I intend to give him an old version of my Acronis TIH 2019 since the
new versions have switched to subscriptions. If I activate it on my
machine will it still work on his, or does it have to be activated on
his?

Thank you for the help.
>
> Paul

>>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

jetjock wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 19:10:44 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> jetjock wrote:
>>> Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
>>> backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
>>> all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
>>> question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
>>> SSD?
>>>
>>> Next question. Assuming I'm right about his not being able to
>>> restore from his backup, if I were to install Win 7 and Office 2010 on
>>> a new SSD using my computer, would he be able to plug the SSD into his
>>> computer and have it work as required? He is NOT remotely computer
>>> literate, so unless it works out of the box with only minor fixes that
>>> I could help him with over the phone, it's a no go. Thanks!
>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
>> This is the very definition of the "bad news bears".
>>
>> https://www.seagate.com/ca/en/support/kb/seagate-dashboard-installation-backup-verify-restore-and-features-006148en/
>>
>> "Note: The software is very sensitive to changes, even small modifications
>> (whether by you or a program) will result in the data being backed
>> up again.
>>
>> The software does not backup programs, system files,
>> hidden folders/items.
>>
>> Some software like Outlook, Quicken, and Quickbooks allow you to
>> backup/export data to the Seagate drive. In these instances
>> you will want to follow those instructions.
>> "
>>
>> If the COA is also scratched off the laptop, I'd
>> find another brother-in-law :-)
>>
>> Did the esteemed gentleman pop blank optical media
>> into the drive, as instructed by the OS/computer ?
>
> No. I'm afraid that he is very handy with tools, but when it comes to
> computers his knowledge stops with the On-Off switch.
>> My Acer asked for four DVDs or so, to make a backup
>> copy of Windows 7 for restoration. This was probably
>> Home Premium. I still have the DVDs.
>>
>> If he has those DVDs, just send him a blank SSD.
>> Booting off the DVDs, starts the recovery sequence onto
>> the SSD.
>
> If only! :-) The dive apparently is toast now as it will not boot at
> all. We tried doing an F-8 boot and repair, but it was unable to
> repair. His computer guy (whom I don't trust) said the drive was
> shot.
>> This won't put Office on there. That will be some separate
>> work over the phone for it.
>
> How much can I pre load on the new drive i.e Office 2010,
> MalwareBytes, Acronis TIH before it will balk when he plugs it into
> his computer as his OS boot drive? I'm pretty sure that Win 7 and
> Office will both have to activated on HIS computer to work, or could
> they be activated on mine using the Toolkit (DAZ Loader)?
>> But with the OS image missing from any backup, there won't
>> be key extraction or anything else to use.
>>
>> There are probably twenty or more backup programs, even
>> the DiscWarrior would have worked, to make this mess, less
>> of a mess.
>
> I intend to give him an old version of my Acronis TIH 2019 since the
> new versions have switched to subscriptions. If I activate it on my
> machine will it still work on his, or does it have to be activated on
> his?
>
> Thank you for the help.

You could sysprep a drive, but you can see from the amount
of comments about the process, that this is not a hands-off
process complete with "free pony".

https://superuser.com/questions/412498/what-would-happen-if-i-take-my-hard-drive-out-of-my-current-pc-and-put-it-in-a-n

I tried a sysprep here once, but it wasn't with Windows 7,
and the damn thing trashed all the pre-staged software,
making the notion kinda useless. It's my noob level of
inexperience with sysprep, that makes me the wrong person
for this task.

Yes, you get to watch a new OS start up, but what
you're left with, has basically only done the
"insert DVD, install, now tons of other stuff to do"
step. This is hardly the level of completion required
for your B-I-L.

As for installing and activating software on your
machine, putting in a box, item arrives at B-I-L,
how seamless would that process be ? Would the
recipient need excellent observational skills
and the correct vocabulary to describe what
is happening ?

None of this, in my estimation, involves a "free pony".
Only if the laptop is shipped to you, and you bolt it
all together, is it going to be a "free pony". Even if
you remoted in, I doubt it would be completely seamless.

Paul

On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 16:04:06 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>jetjock wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 19:10:44 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>> Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
>>>> backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
>>>> all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
>>>> question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
>>>> SSD?
>>>>
>>>> Next question. Assuming I'm right about his not being able to
>>>> restore from his backup, if I were to install Win 7 and Office 2010 on
>>>> a new SSD using my computer, would he be able to plug the SSD into his
>>>> computer and have it work as required? He is NOT remotely computer
>>>> literate, so unless it works out of the box with only minor fixes that
>>>> I could help him with over the phone, it's a no go. Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
>>> This is the very definition of the "bad news bears".
>>>
>>> https://www.seagate.com/ca/en/support/kb/seagate-dashboard-installation-backup-verify-restore-and-features-006148en/
>>>
>>> "Note: The software is very sensitive to changes, even small modifications
>>> (whether by you or a program) will result in the data being backed
>>> up again.
>>>
>>> The software does not backup programs, system files,
>>> hidden folders/items.
>>>
>>> Some software like Outlook, Quicken, and Quickbooks allow you to
>>> backup/export data to the Seagate drive. In these instances
>>> you will want to follow those instructions.
>>> "
>>>
>>> If the COA is also scratched off the laptop, I'd
>>> find another brother-in-law :-)
>>>
>>> Did the esteemed gentleman pop blank optical media
>>> into the drive, as instructed by the OS/computer ?
>>
>> No. I'm afraid that he is very handy with tools, but when it comes to
>> computers his knowledge stops with the On-Off switch.
>>> My Acer asked for four DVDs or so, to make a backup
>>> copy of Windows 7 for restoration. This was probably
>>> Home Premium. I still have the DVDs.
>>>
>>> If he has those DVDs, just send him a blank SSD.
>>> Booting off the DVDs, starts the recovery sequence onto
>>> the SSD.
>>
>> If only! :-) The dive apparently is toast now as it will not boot at
>> all. We tried doing an F-8 boot and repair, but it was unable to
>> repair. His computer guy (whom I don't trust) said the drive was
>> shot.
>>> This won't put Office on there. That will be some separate
>>> work over the phone for it.
>>
>> How much can I pre load on the new drive i.e Office 2010,
>> MalwareBytes, Acronis TIH before it will balk when he plugs it into
>> his computer as his OS boot drive? I'm pretty sure that Win 7 and
>> Office will both have to activated on HIS computer to work, or could
>> they be activated on mine using the Toolkit (DAZ Loader)?
>>> But with the OS image missing from any backup, there won't
>>> be key extraction or anything else to use.
>>>
>>> There are probably twenty or more backup programs, even
>>> the DiscWarrior would have worked, to make this mess, less
>>> of a mess.
>>
>> I intend to give him an old version of my Acronis TIH 2019 since the
>> new versions have switched to subscriptions. If I activate it on my
>> machine will it still work on his, or does it have to be activated on
>> his?
>>
>> Thank you for the help.
>
>You could sysprep a drive, but you can see from the amount
>of comments about the process, that this is not a hands-off
>process complete with "free pony".
>
>https://superuser.com/questions/412498/what-would-happen-if-i-take-my-hard-drive-out-of-my-current-pc-and-put-it-in-a-n
>
>I tried a sysprep here once, but it wasn't with Windows 7,
>and the damn thing trashed all the pre-staged software,
>making the notion kinda useless. It's my noob level of
>inexperience with sysprep, that makes me the wrong person
>for this task.
>
>Yes, you get to watch a new OS start up, but what
>you're left with, has basically only done the
>"insert DVD, install, now tons of other stuff to do"
>step. This is hardly the level of completion required
>for your B-I-L.
>
>As for installing and activating software on your
>machine, putting in a box, item arrives at B-I-L,
>how seamless would that process be ? Would the
>recipient need excellent observational skills
>and the correct vocabulary to describe what
>is happening ?
>
>None of this, in my estimation, involves a "free pony".
>Only if the laptop is shipped to you, and you bolt it
>all together, is it going to be a "free pony". Even if
>you remoted in, I doubt it would be completely seamless.
>
> Paul

It might have been you who turned me on to PC mover that I used to go
from XP to 7. It sort of worked but I did lose some stuff. I suspect
just going to another PC with the same OS it might be close to 100%.

Just going from a spinner to an SSD in the same machine Acronis was
perfect.

jetjock graced us with on 7/22/2021 1:07 PM:
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:42:01 -0700, Sailfish
> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>
>> jetjock graced us with on 7/22/2021 9:17 AM:
>>> Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
>>> backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
>>> all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
>>> question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
>>> SSD?
>>>
>> It depends. Both Seagate and Western Digital offer a free relabeled
>> version of Acronis Backup named, DiscWizard*, which does allow one to
>> produce a cloned disk backup, as well as a restoreable image(s), more at:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronis_True_Image#Operation
>
> From what he can tell me, he did not use DiskWizard. His backup looks
> just like a copy of what a normal hard drive looks like. There is a
> long list of folders including Program Files (x86), Microsoft Office,
> Malware Bytes, etc. Later now. I was able to do a Team Viewer of his
> back up and verify that it is not an image.
>> The DiscWizard limitation for backup and restoration is that at least
>> one Seagate harddrive must be installed on the system before it will
>> work. The Acronis True Image software does not impose this limitation
>> but is not free.
>>
Hmm, this sounds like the backup was created using a Windows Explorer
Copy/Paste operation or, perhaps, a system line command such as XCopy.
Depending on how that was performed, it may have saved his user
generated files (spreadsheets, Word document, Quicken files, &c.)
Regrettably, it most likely would not have correctly saved most (if any)
of the Win7 OS files and especially not the System Registry which is
what an image file would have provided. If so, this would necessitate a
complete reinstallation of the OS (as discussed below) AND reinstalling
whatever appication programs that may have been on the system, MS
Office, Quicken, &c.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 16:28:33 -0700, Sailfish
<NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:

>jetjock graced us with on 7/22/2021 1:07 PM:
>> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:42:01 -0700, Sailfish
>> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>>
>>> jetjock graced us with on 7/22/2021 9:17 AM:
>>>> Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
>>>> backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
>>>> all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
>>>> question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
>>>> SSD?
>>>>
>>> It depends. Both Seagate and Western Digital offer a free relabeled
>>> version of Acronis Backup named, DiscWizard*, which does allow one to
>>> produce a cloned disk backup, as well as a restoreable image(s), more at:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronis_True_Image#Operation
>>
>> From what he can tell me, he did not use DiskWizard. His backup looks
>> just like a copy of what a normal hard drive looks like. There is a
>> long list of folders including Program Files (x86), Microsoft Office,
>> Malware Bytes, etc. Later now. I was able to do a Team Viewer of his
>> back up and verify that it is not an image.
>>> The DiscWizard limitation for backup and restoration is that at least
>>> one Seagate harddrive must be installed on the system before it will
>>> work. The Acronis True Image software does not impose this limitation
>>> but is not free.
>>>
>Hmm, this sounds like the backup was created using a Windows Explorer
>Copy/Paste operation or, perhaps, a system line command such as XCopy.
>Depending on how that was performed, it may have saved his user
>generated files (spreadsheets, Word document, Quicken files, &c.)
>Regrettably, it most likely would not have correctly saved most (if any)
>of the Win7 OS files and especially not the System Registry which is
>what an image file would have provided. If so, this would necessitate a
>complete reinstallation of the OS (as discussed below) AND reinstalling
>whatever appication programs that may have been on the system, MS
>Office, Quicken, &c.

The last OS you could XCOPY was W/98.

gfretwell@aol.com graced us with on 7/23/2021 6:00 PM:
> On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 16:28:33 -0700, Sailfish
> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>
>> jetjock graced us with on 7/22/2021 1:07 PM:
>>> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:42:01 -0700, Sailfish
>>> <NIXCAPSsailfish@NIXCAPSunforgettable.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> jetjock graced us with on 7/22/2021 9:17 AM:
>>>>> Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
>>>>> backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
>>>>> all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
>>>>> question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
>>>>> SSD?
>>>>>
>>>> It depends. Both Seagate and Western Digital offer a free relabeled
>>>> version of Acronis Backup named, DiscWizard*, which does allow one to
>>>> produce a cloned disk backup, as well as a restoreable image(s), more at:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronis_True_Image#Operation
>>> From what he can tell me, he did not use DiskWizard. His backup looks
>>> just like a copy of what a normal hard drive looks like. There is a
>>> long list of folders including Program Files (x86), Microsoft Office,
>>> Malware Bytes, etc. Later now. I was able to do a Team Viewer of his
>>> back up and verify that it is not an image.
>>>> The DiscWizard limitation for backup and restoration is that at least
>>>> one Seagate harddrive must be installed on the system before it will
>>>> work. The Acronis True Image software does not impose this limitation
>>>> but is not free.
>>>>
>> Hmm, this sounds like the backup was created using a Windows Explorer
>> Copy/Paste operation or, perhaps, a system line command such as XCopy.
>> Depending on how that was performed, it may have saved his user
>> generated files (spreadsheets, Word document, Quicken files, &c.)
>> Regrettably, it most likely would not have correctly saved most (if any)
>> of the Win7 OS files and especially not the System Registry which is
>> what an image file would have provided. If so, this would necessitate a
>> complete reinstallation of the OS (as discussed below) AND reinstalling
>> whatever appication programs that may have been on the system, MS
>> Office, Quicken, &c.
>
> The last OS you could XCOPY was W/98.

Admittedly, I've not tried using it since back then* but here's what cmd
prompt reports:

* Use Macrium Reflect for my major imaging, cloning and copying needs
https://www.macrium.com

//
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Dad>help xcopy
Copies files and directory trees.

XCOPY source [destination] [/A | /M] [/D[:date]] [/P] [/S [/E]] [/V] [/W]
[/C] [/I] [/Q] [/F] [/L] [/G] [/H] [/R] [/T]
[/U]
[/K] [/N] [/O] [/X] [/Y] [/-Y] [/Z] [/B]
[/EXCLUDE:file1[+file2][+file3]...]
//

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 16:04:06 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> jetjock wrote:
>>> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 19:10:44 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>>> Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
>>>>> backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
>>>>> all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
>>>>> question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
>>>>> SSD?
>>>>>
>>>>> Next question. Assuming I'm right about his not being able to
>>>>> restore from his backup, if I were to install Win 7 and Office 2010 on
>>>>> a new SSD using my computer, would he be able to plug the SSD into his
>>>>> computer and have it work as required? He is NOT remotely computer
>>>>> literate, so unless it works out of the box with only minor fixes that
>>>>> I could help him with over the phone, it's a no go. Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
>>>> This is the very definition of the "bad news bears".
>>>>
>>>> https://www.seagate.com/ca/en/support/kb/seagate-dashboard-installation-backup-verify-restore-and-features-006148en/
>>>>
>>>> "Note: The software is very sensitive to changes, even small modifications
>>>> (whether by you or a program) will result in the data being backed
>>>> up again.
>>>>
>>>> The software does not backup programs, system files,
>>>> hidden folders/items.
>>>>
>>>> Some software like Outlook, Quicken, and Quickbooks allow you to
>>>> backup/export data to the Seagate drive. In these instances
>>>> you will want to follow those instructions.
>>>> "
>>>>
>>>> If the COA is also scratched off the laptop, I'd
>>>> find another brother-in-law :-)
>>>>
>>>> Did the esteemed gentleman pop blank optical media
>>>> into the drive, as instructed by the OS/computer ?
>>> No. I'm afraid that he is very handy with tools, but when it comes to
>>> computers his knowledge stops with the On-Off switch.
>>>> My Acer asked for four DVDs or so, to make a backup
>>>> copy of Windows 7 for restoration. This was probably
>>>> Home Premium. I still have the DVDs.
>>>>
>>>> If he has those DVDs, just send him a blank SSD.
>>>> Booting off the DVDs, starts the recovery sequence onto
>>>> the SSD.
>>> If only! :-) The dive apparently is toast now as it will not boot at
>>> all. We tried doing an F-8 boot and repair, but it was unable to
>>> repair. His computer guy (whom I don't trust) said the drive was
>>> shot.
>>>> This won't put Office on there. That will be some separate
>>>> work over the phone for it.
>>> How much can I pre load on the new drive i.e Office 2010,
>>> MalwareBytes, Acronis TIH before it will balk when he plugs it into
>>> his computer as his OS boot drive? I'm pretty sure that Win 7 and
>>> Office will both have to activated on HIS computer to work, or could
>>> they be activated on mine using the Toolkit (DAZ Loader)?
>>>> But with the OS image missing from any backup, there won't
>>>> be key extraction or anything else to use.
>>>>
>>>> There are probably twenty or more backup programs, even
>>>> the DiscWarrior would have worked, to make this mess, less
>>>> of a mess.
>>> I intend to give him an old version of my Acronis TIH 2019 since the
>>> new versions have switched to subscriptions. If I activate it on my
>>> machine will it still work on his, or does it have to be activated on
>>> his?
>>>
>>> Thank you for the help.
>> You could sysprep a drive, but you can see from the amount
>> of comments about the process, that this is not a hands-off
>> process complete with "free pony".
>>
>> https://superuser.com/questions/412498/what-would-happen-if-i-take-my-hard-drive-out-of-my-current-pc-and-put-it-in-a-n
>>
>> I tried a sysprep here once, but it wasn't with Windows 7,
>> and the damn thing trashed all the pre-staged software,
>> making the notion kinda useless. It's my noob level of
>> inexperience with sysprep, that makes me the wrong person
>> for this task.
>>
>> Yes, you get to watch a new OS start up, but what
>> you're left with, has basically only done the
>> "insert DVD, install, now tons of other stuff to do"
>> step. This is hardly the level of completion required
>> for your B-I-L.
>>
>> As for installing and activating software on your
>> machine, putting in a box, item arrives at B-I-L,
>> how seamless would that process be ? Would the
>> recipient need excellent observational skills
>> and the correct vocabulary to describe what
>> is happening ?
>>
>> None of this, in my estimation, involves a "free pony".
>> Only if the laptop is shipped to you, and you bolt it
>> all together, is it going to be a "free pony". Even if
>> you remoted in, I doubt it would be completely seamless.
>>
>> Paul
>
> It might have been you who turned me on to PC mover that I used to go
> from XP to 7. It sort of worked but I did lose some stuff. I suspect
> just going to another PC with the same OS it might be close to 100%.
>
> Just going from a spinner to an SSD in the same machine Acronis was
> perfect.

Well, I'm hoping there is a hidden asset somewhere in
that room that can be used. My Acer machine, the software
that wanted me to make DVDs was pretty persistent. Who
could resist such a badgering :-)

Paul

On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 16:04:06 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>jetjock wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 19:10:44 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>> Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
>>>> backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
>>>> all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
>>>> question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
>>>> SSD?
>>>>
>>>> Next question. Assuming I'm right about his not being able to
>>>> restore from his backup, if I were to install Win 7 and Office 2010 on
>>>> a new SSD using my computer, would he be able to plug the SSD into his
>>>> computer and have it work as required? He is NOT remotely computer
>>>> literate, so unless it works out of the box with only minor fixes that
>>>> I could help him with over the phone, it's a no go. Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
>>> This is the very definition of the "bad news bears".
>>>
>>> https://www.seagate.com/ca/en/support/kb/seagate-dashboard-installation-backup-verify-restore-and-features-006148en/
>>>
>>> "Note: The software is very sensitive to changes, even small modifications
>>> (whether by you or a program) will result in the data being backed
>>> up again.
>>>
>>> The software does not backup programs, system files,
>>> hidden folders/items.
>>>
>>> Some software like Outlook, Quicken, and Quickbooks allow you to
>>> backup/export data to the Seagate drive. In these instances
>>> you will want to follow those instructions.
>>> "
>>>
>>> If the COA is also scratched off the laptop, I'd
>>> find another brother-in-law :-)
>>>
>>> Did the esteemed gentleman pop blank optical media
>>> into the drive, as instructed by the OS/computer ?
>>
>> No. I'm afraid that he is very handy with tools, but when it comes to
>> computers his knowledge stops with the On-Off switch.
>>> My Acer asked for four DVDs or so, to make a backup
>>> copy of Windows 7 for restoration. This was probably
>>> Home Premium. I still have the DVDs.
>>>
>>> If he has those DVDs, just send him a blank SSD.
>>> Booting off the DVDs, starts the recovery sequence onto
>>> the SSD.
>>
>> If only! :-) The dive apparently is toast now as it will not boot at
>> all. We tried doing an F-8 boot and repair, but it was unable to
>> repair. His computer guy (whom I don't trust) said the drive was
>> shot.
>>> This won't put Office on there. That will be some separate
>>> work over the phone for it.
>>
>> How much can I pre load on the new drive i.e Office 2010,
>> MalwareBytes, Acronis TIH before it will balk when he plugs it into
>> his computer as his OS boot drive? I'm pretty sure that Win 7 and
>> Office will both have to activated on HIS computer to work, or could
>> they be activated on mine using the Toolkit (DAZ Loader)?
>>> But with the OS image missing from any backup, there won't
>>> be key extraction or anything else to use.
>>>
>>> There are probably twenty or more backup programs, even
>>> the DiscWarrior would have worked, to make this mess, less
>>> of a mess.
>>
>> I intend to give him an old version of my Acronis TIH 2019 since the
>> new versions have switched to subscriptions. If I activate it on my
>> machine will it still work on his, or does it have to be activated on
>> his?
>>
>> Thank you for the help.
>
>You could sysprep a drive, but you can see from the amount
>of comments about the process, that this is not a hands-off
>process complete with "free pony".
>
>https://superuser.com/questions/412498/what-would-happen-if-i-take-my-hard-drive-out-of-my-current-pc-and-put-it-in-a-n
>
>I tried a sysprep here once, but it wasn't with Windows 7,
>and the damn thing trashed all the pre-staged software,
>making the notion kinda useless. It's my noob level of
>inexperience with sysprep, that makes me the wrong person
>for this task.

I don't think sysprep is the way to go here since I will be starting
with a clean drive already. Also, I don't think he would know what to
do if there were problems with startup.
>
>Yes, you get to watch a new OS start up, but what
>you're left with, has basically only done the
>"insert DVD, install, now tons of other stuff to do"
>step. This is hardly the level of completion required
>for your B-I-L.
>
>As for installing and activating software on your
>machine, putting in a box, item arrives at B-I-L,
>how seamless would that process be ? Would the
>recipient need excellent observational skills
>and the correct vocabulary to describe what
>is happening ?
>
>None of this, in my estimation, involves a "free pony".
>Only if the laptop is shipped to you, and you bolt it
>all together, is it going to be a "free pony". Even if
>you remoted in, I doubt it would be completely seamless.
>
> Paul

If it was a laptop this would be a very simple operation! I will
ship him a Win 7 CD and an Office CD along with the drive so if the
thing won't boot when he gets it, he ain't any further behind than if
he just bought a new SSD. I guess the only way to find out if it
will work is to try it. :-)

Many thanks for your time and help. I always love hearing from you
guys who know so much more than I. Appreciated!!

>>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

On 24/07/2021 17:31, jetjock wrote:
>
> On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 16:04:06 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>>
>> You could sysprep a drive, but you can see from the amount
>> of comments about the process, that this is not a hands-off
>> process complete with "free pony".
>>
>> https://superuser.com/questions/412498/what-would-happen-if-i-take-my-hard-drive-out-of-my-current-pc-and-put-it-in-a-n
>>
>> I tried a sysprep here once, but it wasn't with Windows 7,
>> and the damn thing trashed all the pre-staged software,
>> making the notion kinda useless. It's my noob level of
>> inexperience with sysprep, that makes me the wrong person
>> for this task.
>
> I don't think sysprep is the way to go here since I will be starting
> with a clean drive already.

That's a non-sequitur.

While I would admit up front that it's probably overkill for your
situation, it's a tool that is very useful in corporate environments
where different models of PC have to have, as far as differences in
their hardware allows, the same corporate build, and, before I retired,
one of my previous employments had been creating sysprep builds for this
purpose.

Basically, sysprep creates a ready-built Windows image which when booted
for the first time will run a 'mini-setup', mostly of just the last
phase asking for user and computer names, etc, and then, if everything
went well, reboot into a clean new build exactly as if a full setup had
been run.

After I retired, with W2k and its mongrel black sheep half brother XP
still around, I wrote a webpage on how to do it, and I've never bothered
to take it down, but anybody reading it should note that since around
Vista or W7, sysprep works rather differently, and in some ways is easier.

http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/Windows/WindowsImageBuilding.html

However, while it could perhaps solve your problem, it's a pain to get
right, because you have to do a lot of testing, and so often you find
some problem, for example the image won't boot on one of the models of
PC because you forgot to include the boot drivers for that model. To do
a sysprep build to be installed on a remote laptop far away that must
run first time correctly is not something I would recommend unless there
is literally no other way. In fact, I'd only recommend it to someone
who wants systematically to standardise the builds on all the PCs
throughout a home or an organisation, as I have here at home - I still
have a standardised W2k build on two tower systems which keep meaning to
take down to the tip, a standardised XP build on two laptops, and a
standardised W7 on two other laptops, one of which I'm using to type this.

> If it was a laptop this would be a very simple operation! I will
> ship him a Win 7 CD and an Office CD along with the drive so if the
> thing won't boot when he gets it, he ain't any further behind than if
> he just bought a new SSD. I guess the only way to find out if it
> will work is to try it. :-)

Given the price of support can be quite expensive these days, why
doesn't he send you the CPU case, you can then do the install for him in
the comforting environment of your own home or office with all your
usual tools available?

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 11:31:40 -0500, jetjock <jetjock@unkown.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 16:04:06 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>jetjock wrote:
>>> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 19:10:44 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>>> Brother-in-Law's hard drive went TU and all he has is a Seagate
>>>>> backup. As far as I have been able to learn about Seagate backups is
>>>>> all they do is back up data: They don't make a restorable image. First
>>>>> question, is that right or can he just restore that backup to a new
>>>>> SSD?
>>>>>
>>>>> Next question. Assuming I'm right about his not being able to
>>>>> restore from his backup, if I were to install Win 7 and Office 2010 on
>>>>> a new SSD using my computer, would he be able to plug the SSD into his
>>>>> computer and have it work as required? He is NOT remotely computer
>>>>> literate, so unless it works out of the box with only minor fixes that
>>>>> I could help him with over the phone, it's a no go. Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
>>>> This is the very definition of the "bad news bears".
>>>>
>>>> https://www.seagate.com/ca/en/support/kb/seagate-dashboard-installation-backup-verify-restore-and-features-006148en/
>>>>
>>>> "Note: The software is very sensitive to changes, even small modifications
>>>> (whether by you or a program) will result in the data being backed
>>>> up again.
>>>>
>>>> The software does not backup programs, system files,
>>>> hidden folders/items.
>>>>
>>>> Some software like Outlook, Quicken, and Quickbooks allow you to
>>>> backup/export data to the Seagate drive. In these instances
>>>> you will want to follow those instructions.
>>>> "
>>>>
>>>> If the COA is also scratched off the laptop, I'd
>>>> find another brother-in-law :-)
>>>>
>>>> Did the esteemed gentleman pop blank optical media
>>>> into the drive, as instructed by the OS/computer ?
>>>
>>> No. I'm afraid that he is very handy with tools, but when it comes to
>>> computers his knowledge stops with the On-Off switch.
>>>> My Acer asked for four DVDs or so, to make a backup
>>>> copy of Windows 7 for restoration. This was probably
>>>> Home Premium. I still have the DVDs.
>>>>
>>>> If he has those DVDs, just send him a blank SSD.
>>>> Booting off the DVDs, starts the recovery sequence onto
>>>> the SSD.
>>>
>>> If only! :-) The dive apparently is toast now as it will not boot at
>>> all. We tried doing an F-8 boot and repair, but it was unable to
>>> repair. His computer guy (whom I don't trust) said the drive was
>>> shot.
>>>> This won't put Office on there. That will be some separate
>>>> work over the phone for it.
>>>
>>> How much can I pre load on the new drive i.e Office 2010,
>>> MalwareBytes, Acronis TIH before it will balk when he plugs it into
>>> his computer as his OS boot drive? I'm pretty sure that Win 7 and
>>> Office will both have to activated on HIS computer to work, or could
>>> they be activated on mine using the Toolkit (DAZ Loader)?
>>>> But with the OS image missing from any backup, there won't
>>>> be key extraction or anything else to use.
>>>>
>>>> There are probably twenty or more backup programs, even
>>>> the DiscWarrior would have worked, to make this mess, less
>>>> of a mess.
>>>
>>> I intend to give him an old version of my Acronis TIH 2019 since the
>>> new versions have switched to subscriptions. If I activate it on my
>>> machine will it still work on his, or does it have to be activated on
>>> his?
>>>
>>> Thank you for the help.
>>
>>You could sysprep a drive, but you can see from the amount
>>of comments about the process, that this is not a hands-off
>>process complete with "free pony".
>>
>>https://superuser.com/questions/412498/what-would-happen-if-i-take-my-hard-drive-out-of-my-current-pc-and-put-it-in-a-n
>>
>>I tried a sysprep here once, but it wasn't with Windows 7,
>>and the damn thing trashed all the pre-staged software,
>>making the notion kinda useless. It's my noob level of
>>inexperience with sysprep, that makes me the wrong person
>>for this task.
>
>I don't think sysprep is the way to go here since I will be starting
>with a clean drive already. Also, I don't think he would know what to
>do if there were problems with startup.
>>
>>Yes, you get to watch a new OS start up, but what
>>you're left with, has basically only done the
>>"insert DVD, install, now tons of other stuff to do"
>>step. This is hardly the level of completion required
>>for your B-I-L.
>>
>>As for installing and activating software on your
>>machine, putting in a box, item arrives at B-I-L,
>>how seamless would that process be ? Would the
>>recipient need excellent observational skills
>>and the correct vocabulary to describe what
>>is happening ?
>>
>>None of this, in my estimation, involves a "free pony".
>>Only if the laptop is shipped to you, and you bolt it
>>all together, is it going to be a "free pony". Even if
>>you remoted in, I doubt it would be completely seamless.
>>
>> Paul
>
>If it was a laptop this would be a very simple operation! I will
>ship him a Win 7 CD and an Office CD along with the drive so if the
>thing won't boot when he gets it, he ain't any further behind than if
>he just bought a new SSD. I guess the only way to find out if it
>will work is to try it. :-)

I thought that anyone following this thread might like to know that it
didn't work. I installed Win 7 Ultimate 64 on the new drive in an old
Dell desktop I have, and then moved it to my desktop. It refused to
boot. Error came up about a driver problem which didn't surprise me.
At least I tried!
>
>Many thanks for your time and help. I always love hearing from you
>guys who know so much more than I. Appreciated!!
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

jetjock wrote:

> I thought that anyone following this thread might like to know that it
> didn't work. I installed Win 7 Ultimate 64 on the new drive in an old
> Dell desktop I have, and then moved it to my desktop. It refused to
> boot. Error came up about a driver problem which didn't surprise me.
> At least I tried!

The secret to this in the past, is to use the same or
similar chipset for the install.

Say, for example, I installed on an Intel motherboard
with ICH6 chips for the SATA. Maybe I could move the
drive to an ICH10 system and it would boot, because
the same SATA driver would work. It would be particularly
helpful, if both BIOS and their SATA settings, were
consistent (both AHCI mode, say).

In theory, driver re-arming can prepare a C: partition
for a new adventure. Then, the OS will try all the driver
types.

Delving into Safe Mode (F8) followed by going
back to Normal Mode, is supposed to enable driver-rearming,
without registry work.

Maybe in Windows 7, banging on F8 will get you there.
On Windows 10, there is no F8 initially evident.

However, before moving a Win10 drive, you can do:

bcdedit # Dump enumeration

bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True

bcdedit # Verify it is OK

If done from the Command Prompt of an installer DVD,
you tell it where to find the BCD, like this. Since drive
lettering is not consistent, sometimes you don't get the
/store directive correct on the first try.

bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True

You can likely do that on Windows 7 too if you want,
if you hate blindly hammering on F8. The screen stands
still, you can press F8 the one time, and do whatever
you want with Safe Mode.

Dropping into Safe Mode, can signal to the system
that it needs to try all the drivers, later on.

Paul

On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:57:45 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>jetjock wrote:
>
>> I thought that anyone following this thread might like to know that it
>> didn't work. I installed Win 7 Ultimate 64 on the new drive in an old
>> Dell desktop I have, and then moved it to my desktop. It refused to
>> boot. Error came up about a driver problem which didn't surprise me.
>> At least I tried!
>
>The secret to this in the past, is to use the same or
>similar chipset for the install.
>
>Say, for example, I installed on an Intel motherboard
>with ICH6 chips for the SATA. Maybe I could move the
>drive to an ICH10 system and it would boot, because
>the same SATA driver would work. It would be particularly
>helpful, if both BIOS and their SATA settings, were
>consistent (both AHCI mode, say).
>
>In theory, driver re-arming can prepare a C: partition
>for a new adventure. Then, the OS will try all the driver
>types.
>
>Delving into Safe Mode (F8) followed by going
>back to Normal Mode, is supposed to enable driver-rearming,
>without registry work.
>
>Maybe in Windows 7, banging on F8 will get you there.
>On Windows 10, there is no F8 initially evident.
>
>However, before moving a Win10 drive, you can do:
>
> bcdedit # Dump enumeration
>
> bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True
>
> bcdedit # Verify it is OK
>
>If done from the Command Prompt of an installer DVD,
>you tell it where to find the BCD, like this. Since drive
>lettering is not consistent, sometimes you don't get the
>/store directive correct on the first try.
>
>bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True
>
>You can likely do that on Windows 7 too if you want,
>if you hate blindly hammering on F8. The screen stands
>still, you can press F8 the one time, and do whatever
>you want with Safe Mode.
>
>Dropping into Safe Mode, can signal to the system
>that it needs to try all the drivers, later on.
>
> Paul

Since I already sent the drive to BIL, I can't try your safe mode
suggestion. If Windows would not even start when I plugged it into my
computer (went to the attempt repair screen), would it even be
possible to boot it into safe mode using F8 on his? I'm going to have
him just attempt to do a normal start after he plugs in the drive to
see what happens, but if he gets the same thing I did, should we try
F8, or just go straight to a re-install?

>>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

jetjock wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:57:45 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> jetjock wrote:
>>
>>> I thought that anyone following this thread might like to know that it
>>> didn't work. I installed Win 7 Ultimate 64 on the new drive in an old
>>> Dell desktop I have, and then moved it to my desktop. It refused to
>>> boot. Error came up about a driver problem which didn't surprise me.
>>> At least I tried!
>> The secret to this in the past, is to use the same or
>> similar chipset for the install.
>>
>> Say, for example, I installed on an Intel motherboard
>> with ICH6 chips for the SATA. Maybe I could move the
>> drive to an ICH10 system and it would boot, because
>> the same SATA driver would work. It would be particularly
>> helpful, if both BIOS and their SATA settings, were
>> consistent (both AHCI mode, say).
>>
>> In theory, driver re-arming can prepare a C: partition
>> for a new adventure. Then, the OS will try all the driver
>> types.
>>
>> Delving into Safe Mode (F8) followed by going
>> back to Normal Mode, is supposed to enable driver-rearming,
>> without registry work.
>>
>> Maybe in Windows 7, banging on F8 will get you there.
>> On Windows 10, there is no F8 initially evident.
>>
>> However, before moving a Win10 drive, you can do:
>>
>> bcdedit # Dump enumeration
>>
>> bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True
>>
>> bcdedit # Verify it is OK
>>
>> If done from the Command Prompt of an installer DVD,
>> you tell it where to find the BCD, like this. Since drive
>> lettering is not consistent, sometimes you don't get the
>> /store directive correct on the first try.
>>
>> bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True
>>
>> You can likely do that on Windows 7 too if you want,
>> if you hate blindly hammering on F8. The screen stands
>> still, you can press F8 the one time, and do whatever
>> you want with Safe Mode.
>>
>> Dropping into Safe Mode, can signal to the system
>> that it needs to try all the drivers, later on.
>
> Since I already sent the drive to BIL, I can't try your safe mode
> suggestion. If Windows would not even start when I plugged it into my
> computer (went to the attempt repair screen), would it even be
> possible to boot it into safe mode using F8 on his? I'm going to have
> him just attempt to do a normal start after he plugs in the drive to
> see what happens, but if he gets the same thing I did, should we try
> F8, or just go straight to a re-install?
>

Doing an install, has the greatest chance of success.
The modern OSes have a lot of built-in drivers. You
hardly ever hear about someone running into NIC trouble
like happened in the past (having to find that 3C905 driver
to get your old OS running).

I proposed the chipset technique, as I've used that in the
past. Win2K was a lot easier to move from machine to machine,
if the chipsets were "similar". Eventually, I progressed to
the "bounce install" technique, where I'd plug in a Promise card
into the old machine, install the driver for it, move the
boot drive over, then take the Promise card and disk drive
to a second desktop machine. This ensured "identical hardware" for
storage, improving the odds of the boot process starting there.

But that's not going to work with a laptop, as laptops today
lack expansion capability (the Expresscard slot is gone).

The Safe Mode technique works on things like Windows 10.
A secondary technique (good for Windows 7), is to find
the appropriate registry entries and modify those, so that
on the next restart, the OS tests all available drivers and
rediscovers the hardware. But it's difficult in Google
to find the re-arm registry settings for each OS version.

You can remove the ENUM tree in the registry, and that
will force rediscovery of hardware. That's yet another option,
as compared to poking a few specific entries. There is
CurrentControlSet, ControlSet001 and ControlSet002 and
the like. If you edit the registry offline (OS not running,
CurrentControlSet does not exist, which means ControlSet001
is copied to CurrentControlSet. And in cases where an OS
won't start, the system has the option of copying ControlSet002
if it exists. Anyway, if doing an offline edit, you'd use
ControlSet001 and the ENUM in it, for deletion. ENUM
stands for the enumeration of all hardware, and when USB
ports stop working or a device refuses to be recognizes
some day, the corruption is in that ENUM tree.

https://i.postimg.cc/kXRSvZ5K/fun-with-regedit.gif

# Doing it offline, with a five year old Kaspersky CD

https://i.postimg.cc/Cx2vY9hz/enum-delete.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/RhGRYDpC/restart-after-enum-delete.gif

So these are a few things I've tried over the years, to
"encourage" migration. The idea would be, you'd test the
idea in your own "lab" first, before mailing the SSD off
to the intended recipient.

Here, for example, I'd do an install onto a 2.5" hard
drive first (in my desktop). Then, make the mods to the
image, then move to my laptop for a "test boot to see
if it survived". Then I'd restore the 2.5" drive so it's
back in the ENUM-deleted state, and send off the drive to
whoever needed it.

Before I learned of a few tricks, I would clone a Win2K,
move it over, have it fail, have to move it back, clone
it again, and so on. Very annoying. But gradually I got
better at it. I developed "do" and "don't" rules along
the way, regarding when to rip equipment out of cases
(as in one case, I'd taken the source PC apart prematurely
and the migration failed and I had to put it back together
again).

Paul

On Wed, 28 Jul 2021 10:29:07 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>jetjock wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:57:45 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>
>>>> I thought that anyone following this thread might like to know that it
>>>> didn't work. I installed Win 7 Ultimate 64 on the new drive in an old
>>>> Dell desktop I have, and then moved it to my desktop. It refused to
>>>> boot. Error came up about a driver problem which didn't surprise me.
>>>> At least I tried!
>>> The secret to this in the past, is to use the same or
>>> similar chipset for the install.
>>>
>>> Say, for example, I installed on an Intel motherboard
>>> with ICH6 chips for the SATA. Maybe I could move the
>>> drive to an ICH10 system and it would boot, because
>>> the same SATA driver would work. It would be particularly
>>> helpful, if both BIOS and their SATA settings, were
>>> consistent (both AHCI mode, say).
>>>
>>> In theory, driver re-arming can prepare a C: partition
>>> for a new adventure. Then, the OS will try all the driver
>>> types.
>>>
>>> Delving into Safe Mode (F8) followed by going
>>> back to Normal Mode, is supposed to enable driver-rearming,
>>> without registry work.
>>>
>>> Maybe in Windows 7, banging on F8 will get you there.
>>> On Windows 10, there is no F8 initially evident.
>>>
>>> However, before moving a Win10 drive, you can do:
>>>
>>> bcdedit # Dump enumeration
>>>
>>> bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True
>>>
>>> bcdedit # Verify it is OK
>>>
>>> If done from the Command Prompt of an installer DVD,
>>> you tell it where to find the BCD, like this. Since drive
>>> lettering is not consistent, sometimes you don't get the
>>> /store directive correct on the first try.
>>>
>>> bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True
>>>
>>> You can likely do that on Windows 7 too if you want,
>>> if you hate blindly hammering on F8. The screen stands
>>> still, you can press F8 the one time, and do whatever
>>> you want with Safe Mode.
>>>
>>> Dropping into Safe Mode, can signal to the system
>>> that it needs to try all the drivers, later on.
>>
>> Since I already sent the drive to BIL, I can't try your safe mode
>> suggestion. If Windows would not even start when I plugged it into my
>> computer (went to the attempt repair screen), would it even be
>> possible to boot it into safe mode using F8 on his? I'm going to have
>> him just attempt to do a normal start after he plugs in the drive to
>> see what happens, but if he gets the same thing I did, should we try
>> F8, or just go straight to a re-install?
>>
>
>Doing an install, has the greatest chance of success.
>The modern OSes have a lot of built-in drivers. You
>hardly ever hear about someone running into NIC trouble
>like happened in the past (having to find that 3C905 driver
>to get your old OS running).
>
>I proposed the chipset technique, as I've used that in the
>past. Win2K was a lot easier to move from machine to machine,
>if the chipsets were "similar". Eventually, I progressed to
>the "bounce install" technique, where I'd plug in a Promise card
>into the old machine, install the driver for it, move the
>boot drive over, then take the Promise card and disk drive
>to a second desktop machine. This ensured "identical hardware" for
>storage, improving the odds of the boot process starting there.
>
>But that's not going to work with a laptop, as laptops today
>lack expansion capability (the Expresscard slot is gone).
>
>The Safe Mode technique works on things like Windows 10.
>A secondary technique (good for Windows 7), is to find
>the appropriate registry entries and modify those, so that
>on the next restart, the OS tests all available drivers and
>rediscovers the hardware. But it's difficult in Google
>to find the re-arm registry settings for each OS version.
>
>You can remove the ENUM tree in the registry, and that
>will force rediscovery of hardware. That's yet another option,
>as compared to poking a few specific entries. There is
>CurrentControlSet, ControlSet001 and ControlSet002 and
>the like. If you edit the registry offline (OS not running,
>CurrentControlSet does not exist, which means ControlSet001
>is copied to CurrentControlSet. And in cases where an OS
>won't start, the system has the option of copying ControlSet002
>if it exists. Anyway, if doing an offline edit, you'd use
>ControlSet001 and the ENUM in it, for deletion. ENUM
>stands for the enumeration of all hardware, and when USB
>ports stop working or a device refuses to be recognizes
>some day, the corruption is in that ENUM tree.
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/kXRSvZ5K/fun-with-regedit.gif
>
> # Doing it offline, with a five year old Kaspersky CD
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/Cx2vY9hz/enum-delete.gif
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/RhGRYDpC/restart-after-enum-delete.gif
>
>So these are a few things I've tried over the years, to
>"encourage" migration. The idea would be, you'd test the
>idea in your own "lab" first, before mailing the SSD off
>to the intended recipient.
>
>Here, for example, I'd do an install onto a 2.5" hard
>drive first (in my desktop). Then, make the mods to the
>image, then move to my laptop for a "test boot to see
>if it survived". Then I'd restore the 2.5" drive so it's
>back in the ENUM-deleted state, and send off the drive to
>whoever needed it.
>
>Before I learned of a few tricks, I would clone a Win2K,
>move it over, have it fail, have to move it back, clone
>it again, and so on. Very annoying. But gradually I got
>better at it. I developed "do" and "don't" rules along
>the way, regarding when to rip equipment out of cases
>(as in one case, I'd taken the source PC apart prematurely
>and the migration failed and I had to put it back together
>again).
>
> Paul

Thank you very much for all your work and the info. I really
appreciate it. But, you must have missed the part that said I had
already sent BIL the drive,so it appears that a fresh install will
probably be the fastest and easiest route here. Thanks again!

>>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

jetjock wrote:

> Thank you very much for all your work and the info. I really
> appreciate it. But, you must have missed the part that said I had
> already sent BIL the drive,so it appears that a fresh install will
> probably be the fastest and easiest route here. Thanks again!

Yes, installing from the DVD, is a user level activity.

I don't know if the installer logic is clever
enough to delete the existing structure though.
I might not have tested "ramming" the install
through a "full disk" :-)

Normally, I go into Custom, and fiddle with disk setup.
And then you have to decide what approach you're going
to use.

Blowing it away, I don't know if it includes an option
for that, so you'd just delete the partitions individually
in the Custom interface. When the disk listing is cleaned
of all materials, just click Next and it will make the
required partitions. Without whining (since now there
are no competing partitions).

The installer DVD, if you use Troubleshooting, then
Command Prompt of the five or so items, in Command
Prompt you could do

diskpart
list disk # Just to verify there is only one disk!
select disk 1 # Numbering starting at 1, it'll tell you
clean # Removes MBR (legacy) or GPT partitioning.
# Completes in a second or two.
exit # Nice and tidy

Then exit Command Prompt.

A clever individual, while in Command Prompt, could
then run setup.exe off the DVD, something like this.
This saves on rebooting the media. Whereas otherwise, the
user would end up rebooting the DVD again. You can do
something like this right from the same Command Prompt
session as the disk cleanup process.

D: #
dir # Verify we're on DVD file list
setup.exe # Run setup from Command Prompt of Troubleshooting
# of a booted copy of the installer DVD

I would expect diskpart also has a "shrink" set
of commands, which would shrink the old C: down to
half its size, and leave room for an install. And
that's what I mean by "decide what approach" -- if
you leave crap on the disk drive, then the crap
is there later when you're walking the individual
through other steps. And that can be very confusing
if GPT installing.

Using a DBAN CD to erase the SSD, would certainly
also solve the problem of reducing the SSD to "baseline
empty" status, but that's a waste of write-life on the
SSD (you would select 1 pass, not 35 pass!). The diskpart
"clean" only does a few megabytes of writes, to start afresh.
It cleans the two places a GPT partition table could be
located, as well as cleaning Sector 0 (legacy partition).

HTH,
Paul

On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 14:17:25 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>jetjock wrote:
>
>> Thank you very much for all your work and the info. I really
>> appreciate it. But, you must have missed the part that said I had
>> already sent BIL the drive,so it appears that a fresh install will
>> probably be the fastest and easiest route here. Thanks again!
>
>Yes, installing from the DVD, is a user level activity.
>
>I don't know if the installer logic is clever
>enough to delete the existing structure though.
>I might not have tested "ramming" the install
>through a "full disk" :-)
>
>Normally, I go into Custom, and fiddle with disk setup.
>And then you have to decide what approach you're going
>to use.
>
>Blowing it away, I don't know if it includes an option
>for that, so you'd just delete the partitions individually
>in the Custom interface. When the disk listing is cleaned
>of all materials, just click Next and it will make the
>required partitions. Without whining (since now there
>are no competing partitions).
>
>The installer DVD, if you use Troubleshooting, then
>Command Prompt of the five or so items, in Command
>Prompt you could do
>
> diskpart
> list disk # Just to verify there is only one disk!
> select disk 1 # Numbering starting at 1, it'll tell you
> clean # Removes MBR (legacy) or GPT partitioning.
> # Completes in a second or two.
> exit # Nice and tidy
>
>Then exit Command Prompt.
>
>A clever individual, while in Command Prompt, could
>then run setup.exe off the DVD, something like this.
>This saves on rebooting the media. Whereas otherwise, the
>user would end up rebooting the DVD again. You can do
>something like this right from the same Command Prompt
>session as the disk cleanup process.
>
> D: #
> dir # Verify we're on DVD file list
> setup.exe # Run setup from Command Prompt of Troubleshooting
> # of a booted copy of the installer DVD
>
>I would expect diskpart also has a "shrink" set
>of commands, which would shrink the old C: down to
>half its size, and leave room for an install. And
>that's what I mean by "decide what approach" -- if
>you leave crap on the disk drive, then the crap
>is there later when you're walking the individual
>through other steps. And that can be very confusing
>if GPT installing.
>
>Using a DBAN CD to erase the SSD, would certainly
>also solve the problem of reducing the SSD to "baseline
>empty" status, but that's a waste of write-life on the
>SSD (you would select 1 pass, not 35 pass!). The diskpart
>"clean" only does a few megabytes of writes, to start afresh.
>It cleans the two places a GPT partition table could be
>located, as well as cleaning Sector 0 (legacy partition).
>
>HTH,
> Paul

I really wish BIL was savvy enough to do all you suggest. Once he
boots up the Windows DVD it's going to be him reading to me what's on
the screen. I seem to remember though that selecting "Custom" install
tells you that everything on the drive will be erased. Since there is
only one partition on the drive that should replace my install. We
are scheduled to do this Tues. AM. How do I let myself get into these
things?!! BG

>>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

On 30/07/2021 15:30, jetjock wrote:
>
> I really wish BIL was savvy enough to do all you suggest. Once he
> boots up the Windows DVD it's going to be him reading to me what's on
> the screen. I seem to remember though that selecting "Custom" install
> tells you that everything on the drive will be erased. Since there is
> only one partition on the drive that should replace my install. We
> are scheduled to do this Tues. AM. How do I let myself get into these
> things?!! BG
>
> >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

Perhaps a zoom video session via mobile phone? I believe you can use
the service free for 40mins at a time.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 7/30/2021 10:10 AM, Java Jive wrote:
> On 30/07/2021 15:30, jetjock wrote:
>>
>>    I really wish BIL was savvy enough to do all you suggest.  Once he
>> boots up the Windows DVD it's going to be him reading to me what's on
>> the screen.  I seem to remember though that selecting "Custom" install
>> tells you that everything on the drive will be erased.  Since there is
>> only one partition on the drive that should replace my install.  We
>> are scheduled to do this Tues. AM.  How do I let myself get into these
>> things?!!  BG
>>
>>       >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
>
> Perhaps a zoom video session via mobile phone?  I believe you can use
> the service free for 40mins at a time.
>
Zoom has one-to-one free sessions for up to 24 hours.
It makes no difference if the sessions are between a PC and a phone, 2
phones, or 2 PC's.

The 40 minute limit on free sessions only comes into play when you have
3-to-100 devices in a session.

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:44:04 -0500, GlowingBlueMist
<GlowingBlueMist@blackhole.io> wrote:

>On 7/30/2021 10:10 AM, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 30/07/2021 15:30, jetjock wrote:
>>>
>>>    I really wish BIL was savvy enough to do all you suggest.  Once he
>>> boots up the Windows DVD it's going to be him reading to me what's on
>>> the screen.  I seem to remember though that selecting "Custom" install
>>> tells you that everything on the drive will be erased.  Since there is
>>> only one partition on the drive that should replace my install.  We
>>> are scheduled to do this Tues. AM.  How do I let myself get into these
>>> things?!!  BG
>>>
>>>       >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
>>
>> Perhaps a zoom video session via mobile phone?  I believe you can use
>> the service free for 40mins at a time.
>>
>Zoom has one-to-one free sessions for up to 24 hours.
>It makes no difference if the sessions are between a PC and a phone, 2
>phones, or 2 PC's.
>
>The 40 minute limit on free sessions only comes into play when you have
>3-to-100 devices in a session.

Thanks guys. I'll look into it.

>>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

jetjock wrote:

> I really wish BIL was savvy enough to do all you suggest. Once he
> boots up the Windows DVD it's going to be him reading to me what's on
> the screen. I seem to remember though that selecting "Custom" install
> tells you that everything on the drive will be erased. Since there is
> only one partition on the drive that should replace my install. We
> are scheduled to do this Tues. AM. How do I let myself get into these
> things?!! BG

You can do an install in a VirtualBox VM and take
video of the screen (a built-in recorder inside VBox)
of the whole thing. Here, I've selected keyframes
and placed in an animated gif, with a intra-frame
delay of 1000ms.

https://i.postimg.cc/8PDFxydS/win7-install.gif

On the viewing page for that, is a "Save as Original"
or similar button, and using the download feature
preserves the original resolution. Which in this
case, isn't all that wonderful :-)

Animated GIFs can be dropped on a browser when you
want to view them. It's possible opening an animated
GIF in GIMP, will give you the frames as layers
in the layer dialog. As that's how the animated GIF
was made in the first place, was using GIMP.

Paul