I was creating a new filter, for spam on a particular Usenet group,
adding many subject lines keywords.

I hibernated the machine for the night, and on restore, the machine
crashed. This is unrelated, except that when starting Thunderbird, the
filter was gone.

Hypothesis: the filters are not saved to file till Thunderbird is closed
properly. Or perhaps, till the filters dialogs are closed.

Version 115.5, Linux.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 10/22/23 6:39 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> Hypothesis: the filters are not saved to file till Thunderbird is closed
> properly. Or perhaps, till the filters dialogs are closed.

This is correct. Filters continues to use a model where updates are not
saved as they are typed into the UI.

On 2023-10-22 14:25, Wayne wrote:
> On 10/22/23 6:39 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> Hypothesis: the filters are not saved to file till Thunderbird is
>> closed properly. Or perhaps, till the filters dialogs are closed.
>
> This is correct. Filters continues to use a model where updates are not
> saved as they are typed into the UI.

When are they saved?

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Am 22.10.23 um 12:39 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> I was creating a new filter, for spam on a particular Usenet group,
> adding many subject lines keywords.
>
> I hibernated the machine for the night, and on restore, the machine
> crashed. This is unrelated, except that when starting Thunderbird, the
> filter was gone.
>
> Hypothesis: the filters are not saved to file till Thunderbird is closed
> properly. Or perhaps, till the filters dialogs are closed.
>
> Version 115.5, Linux.

My guess: You closed the filter window before you pressed OK. Had this a
couple of times.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 22.10.23 um 12:39 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> I was creating a new filter, for spam on a particular Usenet group,
> adding many subject lines keywords.
>
> I hibernated the machine for the night, and on restore, the machine
> crashed. This is unrelated, except that when starting Thunderbird, the
> filter was gone.
>
> Hypothesis: the filters are not saved to file till Thunderbird is closed
> properly. Or perhaps, till the filters dialogs are closed.
>
> Version 115.5, Linux.

My guess: You closed the filter window before you pressed OK. Had this a
couple of times.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 2023-10-22 17:41, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 22.10.23 um 12:39 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> I was creating a new filter, for spam on a particular Usenet group,
>> adding many subject lines keywords.
>>
>> I hibernated the machine for the night, and on restore, the machine
>> crashed. This is unrelated, except that when starting Thunderbird, the
>> filter was gone.
>>
>> Hypothesis: the filters are not saved to file till Thunderbird is closed
>> properly. Or perhaps, till the filters dialogs are closed.
>>
>> Version 115.5, Linux.
>
> My guess: You closed the filter window before you pressed OK. Had this a
> couple of times.
>

Nope. Computer crashed.

Thunderbird was displaying the filters for group "comp.os.linux.misc",
but "edit" window was not open. It had been opened and closed dozens of
times as I added entries to the filter, then tested the filter by
running it after each edit.

Note: your post came in twice, with 2 minutes difference (17:41 and
17:43 CEST). Not the first time I see it tonight.

Injection-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 15:41:40 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; ...;
logging-data="2631920"; ...; posting-account="...="

Injection-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 15:43:16 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; ...;
logging-data="2631921"; ... posting-account="differs ="

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Note: your post came in twice, with 2 minutes difference (17:41 and
> 17:43 CEST). Not the first time I see it tonight.

I guess E-S is timing out in sending a positive reply to posts, so the
users are re-sending without checking if it really sent, or not. I've
seen at least one other user do the same tonight ...

On 2023-10-22 21:22, Andy Burns wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Note: your post came in twice, with 2 minutes difference (17:41 and
>> 17:43 CEST). Not the first time I see it tonight.
>
> I guess E-S is timing out in sending a positive reply to posts, so the
> users are re-sending without checking if it really sent, or not.  I've
> seen at least one other user do the same tonight ...

I would think it is the application which says "posting failed", so the
user tries again. But in this case, the Message-ID are different, so the
receiving side could determine they are duplicates are error on the
second or erase it.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Am 22.10.23 um 21:22 schrieb Andy Burns:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Note: your post came in twice, with 2 minutes difference (17:41 and
>> 17:43 CEST). Not the first time I see it tonight.
>
> I guess E-S is timing out in sending a positive reply to posts, so the
> users are re-sending without checking if it really sent, or not. I've
> seen at least one other user do the same tonight ...

Ray Banana answered in German speaking group. The E-S-server seems to
have difficulties with spam currently. That means the server is very slow.

I will use Solani again as backup-server.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 10/22/23 10:07 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-10-22 14:25, Wayne wrote:
>> On 10/22/23 6:39 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> Hypothesis: the filters are not saved to file till Thunderbird is
>>> closed properly. Or perhaps, till the filters dialogs are closed.
>>
>> This is correct. Filters continues to use a model where updates are
>> not saved as they are typed into the UI.
>
> When are they saved?

When you fully close the filters dialog. (without cancelling)

Jörg Lorenz wrote:

> Ray Banana answered in German speaking group. The E-S-server seems to
> have difficulties with spam currently. That means the server is very slow.

Yes, I heard that he temporarily blocked everything (not just the spam)
originating from google groups, that might have been lifted by now?

On 2023-10-23 09:13, Andy Burns wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>
>> Ray Banana answered in German speaking group. The E-S-server seems to
>> have difficulties with spam currently. That means the server is very
>> slow.
>
> Yes, I heard that he temporarily blocked everything (not just the spam)
> originating from google groups, that might have been lifted by now?

Is it the spam in Thai from google groups?

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>
>>> Ray Banana answered in German speaking group. The E-S-server seems to
>>> have difficulties with spam currently. That means the server is very
>>> slow.
>>
>> Yes, I heard that he temporarily blocked everything (not just the
>> spam) originating from google groups, that might have been lifted by now?
>
> Is it the spam in Thai from google groups?

I think that was what first triggered Ray to start spam-filtering
google, then that overloaded his server(s), so he temporarily disabled
all google posts, now they're enabled again (with filtering).

Am 23.10.23 um 19:07 schrieb Andy Burns:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ray Banana answered in German speaking group. The E-S-server seems to
>>>> have difficulties with spam currently. That means the server is very
>>>> slow.
>>>
>>> Yes, I heard that he temporarily blocked everything (not just the
>>> spam) originating from google groups, that might have been lifted by now?
>>
>> Is it the spam in Thai from google groups?
>
> I think that was what first triggered Ray to start spam-filtering
> google, then that overloaded his server(s), so he temporarily disabled
> all google posts, now they're enabled again (with filtering).

The E-S server behaviour suggests things are under control again.
The loss would be minimal if Google would be banned from the Usenet.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 2023-10-23 19:07, Andy Burns wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ray Banana answered in German speaking group. The E-S-server seems
>>>> to have difficulties with spam currently. That means the server is
>>>> very slow.
>>>
>>> Yes, I heard that he temporarily blocked everything (not just the
>>> spam) originating from google groups, that might have been lifted by
>>> now?
>>
>> Is it the spam in Thai from google groups?
>
> I think that was what first triggered Ray to start spam-filtering
> google, then that overloaded his server(s), so he temporarily disabled
> all google posts, now they're enabled again (with filtering).

I noticed an almost continuous stream of spam in thai entering on the
comp.os.linux.misc group. It appeared, and sometimes it "disappeared",
Thunderbird said the article was expired and offered to clean all
expired posts. As not all disappeared, I started writing my own
filtering. And then some spam started to appear on other groups,so I
moved my filter to the root. I was told it was in fact appearing in
other groups that I don't subscribe to. It did not appear to be so many
as to overload a server, but of course, there are many groups I don't
read, so I don't know how many spams were being written and deleted.

Gosh, what a job... a pain in the...

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-10-23 22:18, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 23.10.23 um 19:07 schrieb Andy Burns:
>> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ray Banana answered in German speaking group. The E-S-server seems to
>>>>> have difficulties with spam currently. That means the server is very
>>>>> slow.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I heard that he temporarily blocked everything (not just the
>>>> spam) originating from google groups, that might have been lifted by
>>>> now?
>>>
>>> Is it the spam in Thai from google groups?
>>
>> I think that was what first triggered Ray to start spam-filtering
>> google, then that overloaded his server(s), so he temporarily disabled
>> all google posts, now they're enabled again (with filtering).
>
> The E-S server behaviour suggests things are under control again.
> The loss would be minimal if Google would be banned from the Usenet.

There is caveat: they archive all, and can search all. Are there Usenet
servers with that capability?

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Am 23.10.23 um 22:30 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 2023-10-23 22:18, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> The E-S server behaviour suggests things are under control again.
>> The loss would be minimal if Google would be banned from the Usenet.
>
> There is caveat: they archive all, and can search all. Are there Usenet
> servers with that capability?

Let's put it that way: *I* do not need that.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 23.10.23 um 22:19 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 2023-10-23 19:07, Andy Burns wrote:
>> I think that was what first triggered Ray to start spam-filtering
>> google, then that overloaded his server(s), so he temporarily disabled
>> all google posts, now they're enabled again (with filtering).
>
>
> I noticed an almost continuous stream of spam in thai entering on the
> comp.os.linux.misc group. It appeared, and sometimes it "disappeared",
> Thunderbird said the article was expired and offered to clean all
> expired posts. As not all disappeared, I started writing my own
> filtering. And then some spam started to appear on other groups,so I
> moved my filter to the root. I was told it was in fact appearing in
> other groups that I don't subscribe to. It did not appear to be so many
> as to overload a server, but of course, there are many groups I don't
> read, so I don't know how many spams were being written and deleted.
>
> Gosh, what a job... a pain in the...

I saw it only in my filter logs. Google-Usenet-postings are filtered at
the server level and legitimate Google-posters are in a whitelist. Not
much work and maintenance. TB is very flexible.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 10/24/23 06:33, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 23.10.23 um 22:30 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> On 2023-10-23 22:18, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> The E-S server behaviour suggests things are under control again.
>>> The loss would be minimal if Google would be banned from the Usenet.
>>
>> There is  caveat: they archive all, and can search all. Are there Usenet
>> servers with that capability?
>
> Let's put it that way: *I* do not need that.
>
You aren't everyone, Joerg. I tend to concur with you here, though;
Google is such a source of abuse that every post from them probably
should be cancelled even if they aren't banned from the main Usenet overall.
--
Lightning Bjornsson
When replying off-Usenet, remember to reply to
dragon.nntp@chatspeed.net. My "email address" is set the way it is due
to Eternal September's nymshifting laws, which forbid using different
emails on a single account.

On 2023-10-24 08:37, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 23.10.23 um 22:19 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> On 2023-10-23 19:07, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> I think that was what first triggered Ray to start spam-filtering
>>> google, then that overloaded his server(s), so he temporarily disabled
>>> all google posts, now they're enabled again (with filtering).
>>
>>
>> I noticed an almost continuous stream of spam in thai entering on the
>> comp.os.linux.misc group. It appeared, and sometimes it "disappeared",
>> Thunderbird said the article was expired and offered to clean all
>> expired posts. As not all disappeared, I started writing my own
>> filtering. And then some spam started to appear on other groups,so I
>> moved my filter to the root. I was told it was in fact appearing in
>> other groups that I don't subscribe to. It did not appear to be so many
>> as to overload a server, but of course, there are many groups I don't
>> read, so I don't know how many spams were being written and deleted.
>>
>> Gosh, what a job... a pain in the...
>
> I saw it only in my filter logs. Google-Usenet-postings are filtered at
> the server level and legitimate Google-posters are in a whitelist. Not
> much work and maintenance. TB is very flexible.

Not flexible at all. Legitimate future google posters will be killed as
well.

I can not create a filter that kills any message written in Thai. Not
flexible. No spam filtering whatsoever in TB.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Am 24.10.23 um 15:43 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 2023-10-24 08:37, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> I saw it only in my filter logs. Google-Usenet-postings are filtered at
>> the server level and legitimate Google-posters are in a whitelist. Not
>> much work and maintenance. TB is very flexible.
>
> Not flexible at all. Legitimate future google posters will be killed as
> well.

They have alternatives. Those who do not understand that regulars filter
Google-server anyway do not deserve to be read.

The definition what is spam varies from user to user and the tolerance
to spam is different too.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 2023-10-24 22:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 24.10.23 um 15:43 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> On 2023-10-24 08:37, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> I saw it only in my filter logs. Google-Usenet-postings are filtered at
>>> the server level and legitimate Google-posters are in a whitelist. Not
>>> much work and maintenance. TB is very flexible.
>>
>> Not flexible at all. Legitimate future google posters will be killed as
>> well.
>
> They have alternatives. Those who do not understand that regulars filter
> Google-server anyway do not deserve to be read.
>
> The definition what is spam varies from user to user and the tolerance
> to spam is different too.

Which is precisely what the spam filter in the mail side of TB does. Why
doesn't it run in the news side?

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 10/24/2023 9:43 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-10-24 08:37, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 23.10.23 um 22:19 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>> On 2023-10-23 19:07, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> I think that was what first triggered Ray to start spam-filtering
>>>> google, then that overloaded his server(s), so he temporarily disabled
>>>> all google posts, now they're enabled again (with filtering).
>>>
>>>
>>> I noticed an almost continuous stream of spam in thai entering on the
>>> comp.os.linux.misc group. It appeared, and sometimes it "disappeared",
>>> Thunderbird said the article was expired and offered to clean all
>>> expired posts. As not all disappeared, I started writing my own
>>> filtering. And then some spam started to appear on other groups,so I
>>> moved my filter to the root. I was told it was in fact appearing in
>>> other groups that I don't subscribe to. It did not appear to be so many
>>> as to overload a server, but of course, there are many groups I don't
>>> read, so I don't know how many spams were being written and deleted.
>>>
>>> Gosh, what a job... a pain in the...
>>
>> I saw it only in my filter logs. Google-Usenet-postings are filtered at the server level and legitimate Google-posters are in a whitelist. Not much work and maintenance. TB is very flexible.
>
> Not flexible at all. Legitimate future google posters will be killed as well.
>
> I can not create a filter that kills any message written in Thai. Not flexible. No spam filtering whatsoever in TB.
>

It is not really spam, it's more of a flood.

And the format is not unique for each one, so at
that volume, the format is fixed and there are
tiny changes to a repost.

PS D:\> .\grep.exe "^Date: Fri" comp.lang.c.txt | .\wc -l
2318
PS D:\> .\grep.exe "^Date: Sat" comp.lang.c.txt | .\wc -l
6083
PS D:\> .\grep.exe "^Date: Sun" comp.lang.c.txt | .\wc -l
5920
PS D:\> .\grep.exe "^Date: Mon" comp.lang.c.txt | .\wc -l
10590
PS D:\>

Ten thousand posts a day is a flood.

In the same time those were sent, the regulars posted
about 50 messages total.

Paul

Am 24.10.23 um 23:07 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 2023-10-24 22:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 24.10.23 um 15:43 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>> On 2023-10-24 08:37, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> I saw it only in my filter logs. Google-Usenet-postings are filtered at
>>>> the server level and legitimate Google-posters are in a whitelist. Not
>>>> much work and maintenance. TB is very flexible.
>>>
>>> Not flexible at all. Legitimate future google posters will be killed as
>>> well.
>>
>> They have alternatives. Those who do not understand that regulars filter
>> Google-server anyway do not deserve to be read.
>>
>> The definition what is spam varies from user to user and the tolerance
>> to spam is different too.
>
> Which is precisely what the spam filter in the mail side of TB does. Why
> doesn't it run in the news side?

TB is viewed as an online-reader. Only the headers are downloaded.
To apply the Bayes-filter the whole message would be needed.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 24.10.23 um 23:07 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 2023-10-24 22:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 24.10.23 um 15:43 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>>> On 2023-10-24 08:37, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> I saw it only in my filter logs. Google-Usenet-postings are filtered at
>>>> the server level and legitimate Google-posters are in a whitelist. Not
>>>> much work and maintenance. TB is very flexible.
>>>
>>> Not flexible at all. Legitimate future google posters will be killed as
>>> well.
>>
>> They have alternatives. Those who do not understand that regulars filter
>> Google-server anyway do not deserve to be read.
>>
>> The definition what is spam varies from user to user and the tolerance
>> to spam is different too.
>
> Which is precisely what the spam filter in the mail side of TB does. Why
> doesn't it run in the news side?

BTW: I can post here a part of my most recent filter protocol to
illustrate how TB can easily filter out this Thai-Spam:

[24.10.23, 11:59:27 GMT+2] Filter "Blacklist Deppenserver" auf die
Nachricht แทงบอลออนไลน์77 login <narulakoosmithzk@gmail.com> - 🤑
เล่นสล็อตบนมือถือ PG Slot ได้ที่เว็บไหนดี? - เล่นสล็อตบนมือถือ pg slot
เว็บไหนดี am 24.10.23, 11:59:24 GMT+2 angewendet Unterthema ignoriert

[24.10.23, 12:04:42 GMT+2] Filter "Blacklist Deppenserver" auf die
Nachricht แทงบอลออนไลน์ สมัครง่าย <hengsawadfriedmanbc@gmail.com> - 🤑
เล่นสล็อตบนมือถือ PG Slot ได้ที่เว็บไหนดี? - เล่นสล็อตบนมือถือ pg slot
เว็บไหนดี am 24.10.23, 12:01:58 GMT+2 angewendet Unterthema ignoriert

--
Ave! Morituri te salutant!