Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote

>> However, to explain... I was taught to document using long titles.
>> My Subject is long for the same reason scientific paper titles are long.
>
> Paper titles aren't long, they average 12.3 words.
> https://blog.oup.com/2018/09/efficient-titles-research-articles/

Hi Chris,
That's interesting. Thanks for digging that up.

I am always logical and sensible because I base everything on facts
so, unlike the uneducated iKooks, I agree with anyone who makes sense.

I've also published scientific papers (I was only a contributing scientist
though - as it was during my graduate school research in my first field)
so I was taught by professors how to author peer-reviewed papers.

In keeping with always making sense...
1. I instantly agreed with Andy & Dave (& asked them for a line length)
2. I explained the reason for explicit titles was two-fold...
a. It's intended to be found with a typical keyword search, and,
b. It's intended to stave off the crazies (you know who they are).

> Titles need to be succinct and meaningful.
> This thread's OP certainly isn't.

Again, thanks for that critique of the thread title.

Bear in mind this is a Usenet thread, so while I always employ what I was
taught in graduate school (mostly for my first graduate degree), I didn't
spend years writing the thread title up so it's off the cuff (ad hoc).

Mainly the title is the way it is for two fundamental reasons given the
peculiar nature of a Usenet thread and the foibles of the search engine.
A. A "control F" in a keyword search easily jumps from title to title, &
B. To forestall the child-like cherry pickers (like Steve & nospam).

>> So they can be found in a title search on an automated web archive, e.g.,
>> <http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
>
> Google searches much more than titles.

Thank you for letting me know that, where there are two Google engines:
1. Google search (i.e., google.com)
2. Google Usenet search (i.e., groups.google.com)

They're completely different.

Remember, I _created_ these URLs (e.g., the tinyurl) and I worked with the
Google team long ago to _simplify_ the old-style URLs to the new style.

OLD:
<http://tinyurl.com/misc-phone-mobile-iphone>
<http://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/misc.phone.mobile.iphone>
NEW:
<http://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone>

Trust me - it's not easy to get in touch with a specific person in
Mountainview (if you haven't tried it - ask Andy Burns what it's like).

I spent many hours trying to help people like you and Andy and Dave _find_
articles that are posted on Usenet given that the "normal" google search
doesn't do a good job at all in finding articles based on keywords.

But once you find articles, the Google Usenet search engine doesn't have a
TITLE option so what you do is "control+F" and "F3" to skip to the next.

For _that_, you need the keyword in the title, Chris.

Remember, nothing I do is by accident.
Everything is well thought out and logical and sensible and defensible.

But you can't please everyone.
No matter how hard you may try.

BTW, the narkive also needs the Control+F and F3 title keyword search:
<http://misc.phone.mobile.iphone.narkive.com>

>> It's not worth doing all the immense efforts I do in any given thread to
>> document things (URLs, facts, APKs, screenshots, etc.) unless leveraged.
>>
>> However, I can make titles shorter if that's what people want.
>> How many characters do you prefer?
>
> 10-12 words is the recommendation for papers. No reason why your posts
> should be any longer than that.

I'm OK with that suggestion as I'm eminently reasonable in all ways.
Everything I do is by design where you are the customer in many ways.

Thank you for adding value to the discussion where I'm always happy to
oblige any reasonable request as my goal is to be purposefully helpful.
--
On Usenet, you need to be reasonable and rational as many people aren't.

Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> wrote

> I don't know what other people want. I think the subject should be as long
> as it needs to be, but no longer. Take a critical look at it: is it
> concise, can you delete words without losing anything important, or use
> well-known (for the NG) abbreviations?
>
> Be aware that mobile newsreaders may truncate the subject in the middle -
> see screenshot of PiaoHong on a this 10" tablet. Mine does the same.
>
> <https://www.cjoint.com/data/MKvqGGSDy5v_Screenshot-20231121-163021-NewsReader.jpg>
> And I have a tablet; I don't know what it looks like on a phone. So don't
> waste the first few words. It's like writing a good newspaper headline.
>
> Just my view. If I don't know what it's about I don't bother to tap on it.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for that helpful information.

I'll always agree with a sensible point of view where you backed up your
point of view which I can't at all disagree with in any way (and thank you
for the examples as I read my news using telnet scripts on a huge monitor).

Mainly I have long titles for search reasons and to discourage the crazies
from overly deflecting the thread intent (e.g., look at nospam's content).

The crazies like nospam, Jolly Roger, Alan Browne, Alan Baker, Lewis, Snit,
et al., all _hate_ that their expensive toy iPhones are crippled garbage.

They hate that their iPhones are garbage so much that they literally deny
all facts about the iPhone - which is the strangest thing to behold.

In order to make up for the fact that the iPhone is crippled garbage, they
even brazenly fabricate imaginary functionality - time and time again.

Why do they do that?
I study them. I think I know why.

Literally, they _hate_ the fact it's so easy to show the iPhone is crap.

They made a herd decision based on Apple marketing alone (which, I admit,
is brilliant marketing - even better than Big Tobacco was with Virginia
Slims) - and - all they want is affirmation of their herd decision.

That means they don't want to hear facts.
They only want to hear about YELLOW iPhones. (Wow. Way cool. How fancy!).

Whenever you see an Apple advertisement, each one shows that Apple thinks
their customer is incredibly stupid (NEW GLASS!!!! NEW TITANIUM!!!!).

Who falls for that crap?
Only people who believe it, right?

The purpose of this thread was simply to provide _facts_ to those crazies.
And of course I know they don't want to hear any of these facts.

They hate facts.
They want all facts to go away (hell, they want _me_ to go away!). :)

So that's why the title had to have the main argument that they could not
deflect from because the assessment in the title is based on the facts.

Not on fancy Apple marketing (which is all the iKooks want to hear about).
(Did you hear Apple made a new RED!!!!!!!! iPhone. Way cool huh!!!!!!)

Bear in mind I didn't spend an hour on the title like I might with a
scientific paper's title - but in the words of Clemens (was it he?),
"If you want it shorter - that will take much longer to do."

In other words, I'll spend a bit more time honing the subject when it's one
of those threads (like this one is) which people _hate_ because they own an
imaginary belief system that things these hardware features are long gone.

These crazies fight tooth-and-nail to make all facts they hate go away.

Yet, the fact is, most Android models recently sold have these basic
features, and any phone without them, is crippled in terms of what it does.

There's _nothing_ a phone without them can do that a phone with them can't.
--
On Usenet, I'm a rarity in that I am always logical & sensible, & as such,
I will agree with anyone who makes sensible comments, no matter their nym.

Alan wrote:
> On 2023-11-20 19:45, Anonymous wrote:
>> *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-11-19 14:01, Wally J wrote:
>>>>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> You would think they'd go 頎柬綄頎柬綄頎柬綄 over their Android phones not
>>>>>> having an
>>>>>> AM radio built in - that's much more useful in an emergency as the
>>>>>> transmission range is typically higher - notably at night.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course real preppers have real emergency radio receivers that cover
>>>>>> several bands, have long lasting batteries and can be charged with the
>>>>>> built in crank.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many preppers have transmitters too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh my!    Did you see what I wrote there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Android phones can't transmit on radio frequencies other than the
>>>>>> built in cell co/WiFi/Blutooth!  How will they survive when the SHTF!?!?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (It occurs to me that flat earthers are more cohernent than Wally).
>>>>>
>>>>> On the basis of logic alone, no amount of MARKETING is going to convince an
>>>>> intelligent person how "courageous" only Apple claims it is, for them to
>>>>> remove basic functional hardware - whose loss is what cripples the iPhone.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many _thousands_ of Israeli civilians who were inside their
>>>>> safe rooms and hiding under beds in bedrooms and even some hiding inside
>>>>> kitchen cabinets for half a day were there who would have given anything
>>>>> for an FM radio in addition to that almost worthless iPhone without it.
>>>>
>>>> Riiiiiiiight.
>>>>
>>>> FM radio one-way communication is so much better than the two-way
>>>> communication offered by every smartphone...
>>>>
>>> Emergency management on Shitter worked ok before sociopathic manbaby took
>>> over with his flamethrower. Without an account trying to keep up to date
>>> with Shitter is a joke. Is it any better with an account? Nationalize that
>>> shit as a public resource.
>>>
>>
>> Sounds good to me! Since the First Amendment would then apply, Andrew Anglin
>> and Nick Fuentes will promptly have their accounts unbanned.
>
> You get that private businesses are not bound by the first amendment, right?

After nationalization it wouldn't be a private business, now would it?

On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing will...
>>>
>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>
>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack is more
>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is less
>>> functional by definition)...
>>>
>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an important
>>> safety
>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>
>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>> disagree that
>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>
>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019 to
>>> today...
>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>
>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet this
>>> standard.
>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>
>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio emergency
>>> feature.
>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>
>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the standard AUX
>>> jack.
>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>
>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important portable-memory
>>> slot.
>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>
>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>> unfortunately.
>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>
>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor Apple
>>> user.
>>>   AUX
>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>   FM
>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>   SD
>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>
>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>> a. 75% AUX
>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>
>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>> a. 0% AUX
>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>
>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet another
>>> reason
>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks basic
>>> hardware.
>>
>>
>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
>> Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone
>> 15 Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore you have to buy
>> an Android Phone or Android based music player to get the best music
>> high fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a legitimate gripe with
>> Apple from an Apple fan.
>
> Bzzzzzzt.
>
> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all of the
> original data. Apple has developed its own lossless audio compression
> technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC). The entire Apple
> Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in resolutions ranging from
> 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>
> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>
> You were saying?

I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever. Apple devices
like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which ARE REQUIRED for
maximum performance with headphones while playing back 192/24 bit ALAC
which Apple Music provides. My FIIO player does support that with Apple
Music and sounds a lot fucking better. A lot.

On 11/22/2023 12:57 PM, John wrote:
> On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing will...
>>>>
>>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>
>>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack is more
>>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is less
>>>> functional by definition)...
>>>>
>>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an important
>>>> safety
>>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>>
>>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>>> disagree that
>>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>>
>>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019 to
>>>> today...
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>
>>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet this
>>>> standard.
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>
>>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio emergency
>>>> feature.
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>
>>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the standard
>>>> AUX jack.
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>
>>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important portable-memory
>>>> slot.
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>>
>>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>>> unfortunately.
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>>
>>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor Apple
>>>> user.
>>>>   AUX
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>   FM
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>   SD
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>>
>>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>>> a. 75% AUX
>>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>>
>>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>>> a. 0% AUX
>>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>>
>>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet another
>>>> reason
>>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks basic
>>>> hardware.
>>>
>>>
>>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
>>> Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone
>>> 15 Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore you have to buy
>>> an Android Phone or Android based music player to get the best music
>>> high fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a legitimate gripe with
>>> Apple from an Apple fan.
>>
>> Bzzzzzzt.
>>
>> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all of
>> the original data. Apple has developed its own lossless audio
>> compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC). The
>> entire Apple Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in resolutions
>> ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>>
>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>>
>> You were saying?
>
>
> I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever.  Apple devices
> like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which ARE REQUIRED for
> maximum performance with headphones while playing back 192/24 bit ALAC
> which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO player does support that with Apple
> Music and sounds a lot fucking better.  A lot.

Further more intelligent people realize the bluetooth codec Apple uses
to connect to its devices is just plain crude. Airpods Max do not
support AptXHD or other advanced codecs and sound like crap compared to
capable headphones like B and W PX8s. Its obvious Alan has absolutely
ZERO audio background.

On 2023-11-22 12:57, John wrote:
> On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing will...
>>>>
>>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>
>>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack is more
>>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is less
>>>> functional by definition)...
>>>>
>>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an important
>>>> safety
>>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>>
>>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>>> disagree that
>>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>>
>>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019 to
>>>> today...
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>
>>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet this
>>>> standard.
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>
>>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio emergency
>>>> feature.
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>
>>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the standard
>>>> AUX jack.
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>
>>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important portable-memory
>>>> slot.
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>>
>>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>>> unfortunately.
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>>
>>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor Apple
>>>> user.
>>>>   AUX
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>   FM
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>   SD
>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>>
>>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>>> a. 75% AUX
>>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>>
>>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>>> a. 0% AUX
>>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>>
>>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet another
>>>> reason
>>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks basic
>>>> hardware.
>>>
>>>
>>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
>>> Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone
>>> 15 Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore you have to buy
>>> an Android Phone or Android based music player to get the best music
>>> high fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a legitimate gripe with
>>> Apple from an Apple fan.
>>
>> Bzzzzzzt.
>>
>> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all of
>> the original data. Apple has developed its own lossless audio
>> compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC). The
>> entire Apple Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in resolutions
>> ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>>
>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>>
>> You were saying?
>
>
> I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever.  Apple devices
> like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which ARE REQUIRED for
> maximum performance with headphones while playing back 192/24 bit ALAC
> which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO player does support that with Apple
> Music and sounds a lot fucking better.  A lot.

Sorry, but your unsupported assertions aren't enough.

On 2023-11-22 13:02, John wrote:
> On 11/22/2023 12:57 PM, John wrote:
>> On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>>>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing will...
>>>>>
>>>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>
>>>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack is more
>>>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is less
>>>>> functional by definition)...
>>>>>
>>>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an
>>>>> important safety
>>>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>>>
>>>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>>>> disagree that
>>>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>>>
>>>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019 to
>>>>> today...
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>
>>>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet this
>>>>> standard.
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>
>>>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio emergency
>>>>> feature.
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>
>>>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the standard
>>>>> AUX jack.
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important
>>>>> portable-memory slot.
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>
>>>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>>>> unfortunately.
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>>>
>>>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor Apple
>>>>> user.
>>>>>   AUX
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>   FM
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>   SD
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>
>>>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>>>> a. 75% AUX
>>>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>>>> a. 0% AUX
>>>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>>>
>>>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet another
>>>>> reason
>>>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks basic
>>>>> hardware.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
>>>> Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone
>>>> 15 Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore you have to
>>>> buy an Android Phone or Android based music player to get the best
>>>> music high fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a legitimate
>>>> gripe with Apple from an Apple fan.
>>>
>>> Bzzzzzzt.
>>>
>>> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all of
>>> the original data. Apple has developed its own lossless audio
>>> compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC). The
>>> entire Apple Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in resolutions
>>> ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>>>
>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>>>
>>> You were saying?
>>
>>
>> I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever.  Apple devices
>> like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which ARE REQUIRED
>> for maximum performance with headphones while playing back 192/24 bit
>> ALAC which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO player does support that
>> with Apple Music and sounds a lot fucking better.  A lot.
>
>
> Further more intelligent people realize the bluetooth codec Apple uses
> to connect to its devices is just plain crude.   Airpods Max do not
> support AptXHD or other advanced codecs and sound like crap compared to
> capable headphones like B and W PX8s.   Its obvious Alan has absolutely
> ZERO audio background.
>

Your claim was that:

'Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone 15
Pro and other models do not support it.'

And nothing you've replied with supports that claim, whereas my quote
utterly refutes it.

On 2023-11-22 15:57, John wrote:

>
> maximum performance with headphones while playing back 192/24 bit ALAC
> which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO player does support that with Apple
> Music and sounds a lot fucking better.  A lot.

Especially with Monster Cables and Cable Lifters ... /s

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-11-22 14:27, John wrote:
> On 11/22/2023 1:54 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-11-22 13:02, John wrote:
>>> On 11/22/2023 12:57 PM, John wrote:
>>>> On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>>>>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing will...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack is
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is less
>>>>>>> functional by definition)...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an
>>>>>>> important safety
>>>>>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>>>>>> disagree that
>>>>>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019
>>>>>>> to today...
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet this
>>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio emergency
>>>>>>> feature.
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the standard
>>>>>>> AUX jack.
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important
>>>>>>> portable-memory slot.
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>>>>>> unfortunately.
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor
>>>>>>> Apple user.
>>>>>>>   AUX
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>   FM
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>   SD
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>>>>>> a. 75% AUX
>>>>>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>>>>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>>>>>> a. 0% AUX
>>>>>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>>>>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet
>>>>>>> another reason
>>>>>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>>>>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks basic
>>>>>>> hardware.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio
>>>>>> codecs. Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits
>>>>>> but iPhone 15 Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore
>>>>>> you have to buy an Android Phone or Android based music player to
>>>>>> get the best music high fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a
>>>>>> legitimate gripe with Apple from an Apple fan.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bzzzzzzt.
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all
>>>>> of the original data. Apple has developed its own lossless audio
>>>>> compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC).
>>>>> The entire Apple Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in resolutions
>>>>> ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>>>>>
>>>>> You were saying?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever.  Apple
>>>> devices like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which ARE
>>>> REQUIRED for maximum performance with headphones while playing back
>>>> 192/24 bit ALAC which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO player does
>>>> support that with Apple Music and sounds a lot fucking better.  A lot.
>>>
>>>
>>> Further more intelligent people realize the bluetooth codec Apple
>>> uses to connect to its devices is just plain crude.   Airpods Max do
>>> not support AptXHD or other advanced codecs and sound like crap
>>> compared to capable headphones like B and W PX8s.   Its obvious Alan
>>> has absolutely ZERO audio background.
>>>
>>
>> Your claim was that:
>>
>> 'Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone
>> 15 Pro and other models do not support it.'
>>
>> And nothing you've replied with supports that claim, whereas my quote
>> utterly refutes it.
>>
>
>
> You are an idiot.  I am referring to the ability to get lossless support
> to the headphones.

Then you should have said that.

>  Apple codecs do NOT support transfer of lossless.
> Apple provides only a crude bluetooth capability.  To get true high
> fidelity to the headphones requires AptX HD or something better OTHER
> than Apples Bluetooth.  My FIIO player can take the lossless 192/24 bit
> from Apple Music and get it LOSSLESSLY to the the headphones.  Which are
> something other than Apple products which do not support it.

So when you said that the IPHONE did not support 192/24 lossless...

....you were just wrong...

....twice.

Once for making the claim.

Again, for not clearly stating what you now claim you meant.

On 2023-11-22 14:29, John wrote:
> On 11/22/2023 1:53 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-11-22 12:57, John wrote:
>>> On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>>>>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>>>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing will...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack is
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is less
>>>>>> functional by definition)...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an
>>>>>> important safety
>>>>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>>>>> disagree that
>>>>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019 to
>>>>>> today...
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet this
>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio emergency
>>>>>> feature.
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the standard
>>>>>> AUX jack.
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important
>>>>>> portable-memory slot.
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>>>>> unfortunately.
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor
>>>>>> Apple user.
>>>>>>   AUX
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>   FM
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>   SD
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>>>>> a. 75% AUX
>>>>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>>>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>>>>> a. 0% AUX
>>>>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>>>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet another
>>>>>> reason
>>>>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>>>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks basic
>>>>>> hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
>>>>> Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but
>>>>> iPhone 15 Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore you
>>>>> have to buy an Android Phone or Android based music player to get
>>>>> the best music high fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a
>>>>> legitimate gripe with Apple from an Apple fan.
>>>>
>>>> Bzzzzzzt.
>>>>
>>>> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all of
>>>> the original data. Apple has developed its own lossless audio
>>>> compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC). The
>>>> entire Apple Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in resolutions
>>>> ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>>>>
>>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>>>>
>>>> You were saying?
>>>
>>>
>>> I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever.  Apple
>>> devices like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which ARE
>>> REQUIRED for maximum performance with headphones while playing back
>>> 192/24 bit ALAC which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO player does
>>> support that with Apple Music and sounds a lot fucking better.  A lot.
>>
>> Sorry, but your unsupported assertions aren't enough.
>
>
> Prove Apple provides something other than lossy Bluetooth as a way to
> get wireless audio to headphones.   You cannot.  Android products do.

I don't have to prove it.

Your original post doesn't make any mention of Bluetooth. I'll quote it
for you in its entirety:

'One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone 15
Pro and other models do not support it. Therefore you have to buy an
Android Phone or Android based music player to get the best music high
fidelity off of Apple Music. There is a legitimate gripe with Apple
from an Apple fan.'

Perhaps if you could learn to say what you mean?

:-)

On 11/22/2023 2:35 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-11-22 14:29, John wrote:
>> On 11/22/2023 1:53 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-22 12:57, John wrote:
>>>> On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>>>>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing will...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack is
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is less
>>>>>>> functional by definition)...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an
>>>>>>> important safety
>>>>>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>>>>>> disagree that
>>>>>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019
>>>>>>> to today...
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet this
>>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio emergency
>>>>>>> feature.
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the standard
>>>>>>> AUX jack.
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important
>>>>>>> portable-memory slot.
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>>>>>> unfortunately.
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor
>>>>>>> Apple user.
>>>>>>>   AUX
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>   FM
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>   SD
>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>>>>>> a. 75% AUX
>>>>>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>>>>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>>>>>> a. 0% AUX
>>>>>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>>>>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet
>>>>>>> another reason
>>>>>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>>>>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks basic
>>>>>>> hardware.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio
>>>>>> codecs. Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits
>>>>>> but iPhone 15 Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore
>>>>>> you have to buy an Android Phone or Android based music player to
>>>>>> get the best music high fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a
>>>>>> legitimate gripe with Apple from an Apple fan.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bzzzzzzt.
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all
>>>>> of the original data. Apple has developed its own lossless audio
>>>>> compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC).
>>>>> The entire Apple Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in resolutions
>>>>> ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>>>>>
>>>>> You were saying?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever.  Apple
>>>> devices like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which ARE
>>>> REQUIRED for maximum performance with headphones while playing back
>>>> 192/24 bit ALAC which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO player does
>>>> support that with Apple Music and sounds a lot fucking better.  A lot.
>>>
>>> Sorry, but your unsupported assertions aren't enough.
>>
>>
>> Prove Apple provides something other than lossy Bluetooth as a way to
>> get wireless audio to headphones.   You cannot.  Android products do.
>
> I don't have to prove it.
>
> Your original post doesn't make any mention of Bluetooth. I'll quote it
> for you in its entirety:
>
> 'One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
> Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone 15
> Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore you have to buy an
> Android Phone or Android based music player to get the best music high
> fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a legitimate gripe with Apple
> from an Apple fan.'
>
> Perhaps if you could learn to say what you mean?
>
> :-)

It is completely accurate. Apple Music supports 192/24 bit but Apple
products like iPhone and Airpods Max do not support it. As the iPhone
uses Bluetooth to transmit the audio to external headphones.
Completely accurate statement and easily understandable unless one is an
idiot.

On 11/22/2023 2:34 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-11-22 14:27, John wrote:
>> On 11/22/2023 1:54 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-22 13:02, John wrote:
>>>> On 11/22/2023 12:57 PM, John wrote:
>>>>> On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>>>>>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing
>>>>>>>> will...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for
>>>>>>>> iPhones*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack
>>>>>>>> is more
>>>>>>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is
>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>>> functional by definition)...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an
>>>>>>>> important safety
>>>>>>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>>>>>>> disagree that
>>>>>>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019
>>>>>>>> to today...
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet
>>>>>>>> this standard.
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio
>>>>>>>> emergency feature.
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the
>>>>>>>> standard AUX jack.
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important
>>>>>>>> portable-memory slot.
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>>>>>>> unfortunately.
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor
>>>>>>>> Apple user.
>>>>>>>>   AUX
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>>   FM
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>>   SD
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>>>>>>> a. 75% AUX
>>>>>>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>>>>>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>>>>>>> a. 0% AUX
>>>>>>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>>>>>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet
>>>>>>>> another reason
>>>>>>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>>>>>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks basic
>>>>>>>> hardware.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio
>>>>>>> codecs. Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits
>>>>>>> but iPhone 15 Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore
>>>>>>> you have to buy an Android Phone or Android based music player to
>>>>>>> get the best music high fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a
>>>>>>> legitimate gripe with Apple from an Apple fan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bzzzzzzt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all
>>>>>> of the original data. Apple has developed its own lossless audio
>>>>>> compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC).
>>>>>> The entire Apple Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in
>>>>>> resolutions ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to
>>>>>> 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You were saying?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever.  Apple
>>>>> devices like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which ARE
>>>>> REQUIRED for maximum performance with headphones while playing back
>>>>> 192/24 bit ALAC which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO player does
>>>>> support that with Apple Music and sounds a lot fucking better.  A lot.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Further more intelligent people realize the bluetooth codec Apple
>>>> uses to connect to its devices is just plain crude.   Airpods Max do
>>>> not support AptXHD or other advanced codecs and sound like crap
>>>> compared to capable headphones like B and W PX8s.   Its obvious Alan
>>>> has absolutely ZERO audio background.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Your claim was that:
>>>
>>> 'Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone
>>> 15 Pro and other models do not support it.'
>>>
>>> And nothing you've replied with supports that claim, whereas my quote
>>> utterly refutes it.
>>>
>>
>>
>> You are an idiot.  I am referring to the ability to get lossless
>> support to the headphones.
>
> Then you should have said that.
>
>>   Apple codecs do NOT support transfer of lossless. Apple provides
>> only a crude bluetooth capability.  To get true high fidelity to the
>> headphones requires AptX HD or something better OTHER than Apples
>> Bluetooth.  My FIIO player can take the lossless 192/24 bit from Apple
>> Music and get it LOSSLESSLY to the the headphones.  Which are
>> something other than Apple products which do not support it.
>
> So when you said that the IPHONE did not support 192/24 lossless...
>
> ...you were just wrong...
>
> ...twice.
>
> Once for making the claim.
>
> Again, for not clearly stating what you now claim you meant.
>
>
>
More lies. The iphone DOES NOT support lossless music because it has
no way to get audio to the headphones by something other than lossy
bluetooth.

John <nospam@nospam.com> wrote

> More lies. The iphone DOES NOT support lossless music because it has
> no way to get audio to the headphones by something other than lossy
> bluetooth.

You may need to understand two things about Alan Baker to understand him.
a. He's an idiot (truly - like none you've ever met before).
(As an example, he claims to be a 'racer' and 'teacher' and to
own BMWs, and yet he doesn't even know what BMWs are called in
all racing circuits and by people who know the vehicle brand.
As another example, he claims for dozens of posts that it's
impossible to change a Usenet newsreader header - even as it's
the simplest thing to do - and there are more examples of the
fact that his IQ is no better than about 40 or thereabouts).
As the most common example, he constantly doesn't click on
links, claiming if he doesn't click on them, and therefore
if he isn't aware of the facts - then those facts can't exist.)

I've never in my life met people that stupid, and I'm an old man
with decades of experience working in high tech in the Silicon Valley.

Who is that stupid to claim, for example, that a link to a Usenet
thread which itself contains all the links to the reference articles
is, in Alan Baker's own words "just a Usenet post"?

Nobody is that stupid, right?
Well, Alan Baker is. He's no different than Snit is.

b. He loves to argue.
(Given his IQ is about 40, his arguments are always a strawman
that he creates, that nobody said, that he sticks to like glue.
He's kind of like that dumb kindergarten kid who just learned
that he could ask "Why" every time you answer anything, and
that way he can prolong "his argument" forever).

Again, he's no different than Snit is.

Hence, in decades on Usenet, I've only plonked single digit numbers of
people, Alan Baker and Snit being two of them who provide negative value.

Every post from them _subtracts value_ from any thread they post to.

However...

The reason I'm posting though is to _thank you_ for explaining very
patiently, repeatedly, and rather clearly that the iPhone is incapable of
getting lossless audio to the headphones.

I had not known that, mostly because I use my iPad as a speakerphone
so I don't normally use headphones with it even as I could if I wanted to.

THANK YOU for explaining that which you _clearly_ explained to Alan Baker:
> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
> Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but
> iPhone 15 Pro and other models do not support it.

I was unaware of that fact and I appreciate that you informed not only me,
but the rest of us, including Alan Baker if he could only comprehend it.

You certainly know more about this than I do, so I thank you for that data.
--
Posting a question on Usenet is an attempt to learn from others who know
more than you do, and to combine our tribal knowledge for all to benefit.

On 2023-11-22 14:52, John wrote:
> On 11/22/2023 2:34 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-11-22 14:27, John wrote:
>>> On 11/22/2023 1:54 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2023-11-22 13:02, John wrote:
>>>>> On 11/22/2023 12:57 PM, John wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>>>>>>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing
>>>>>>>>> will...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for
>>>>>>>>> iPhones*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack
>>>>>>>>> is more
>>>>>>>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is
>>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>>>> functional by definition)...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an
>>>>>>>>> important safety
>>>>>>>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>>>>>>>> disagree that
>>>>>>>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019
>>>>>>>>> to today...
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet
>>>>>>>>> this standard.
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio
>>>>>>>>> emergency feature.
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the
>>>>>>>>> standard AUX jack.
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important
>>>>>>>>> portable-memory slot.
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>>>>>>>> unfortunately.
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor
>>>>>>>>> Apple user.
>>>>>>>>>   AUX
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>>>   FM
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>>>   SD
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>>>>>>>> a. 75% AUX
>>>>>>>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>>>>>>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>>>>>>>> a. 0% AUX
>>>>>>>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>>>>>>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet
>>>>>>>>> another reason
>>>>>>>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>>>>>>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks
>>>>>>>>> basic hardware.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio
>>>>>>>> codecs. Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24
>>>>>>>> bits but iPhone 15 Pro and other models do not support it.
>>>>>>>> Therefore you have to buy an Android Phone or Android based
>>>>>>>> music player to get the best music high fidelity off of Apple
>>>>>>>> Music.   There is a legitimate gripe with Apple from an Apple fan.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bzzzzzzt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all
>>>>>>> of the original data. Apple has developed its own lossless audio
>>>>>>> compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC).
>>>>>>> The entire Apple Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in
>>>>>>> resolutions ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to
>>>>>>> 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You were saying?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever.  Apple
>>>>>> devices like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which ARE
>>>>>> REQUIRED for maximum performance with headphones while playing
>>>>>> back 192/24 bit ALAC which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO player
>>>>>> does support that with Apple Music and sounds a lot fucking
>>>>>> better.  A lot.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Further more intelligent people realize the bluetooth codec Apple
>>>>> uses to connect to its devices is just plain crude.   Airpods Max
>>>>> do not support AptXHD or other advanced codecs and sound like crap
>>>>> compared to capable headphones like B and W PX8s.   Its obvious
>>>>> Alan has absolutely ZERO audio background.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your claim was that:
>>>>
>>>> 'Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but
>>>> iPhone 15 Pro and other models do not support it.'
>>>>
>>>> And nothing you've replied with supports that claim, whereas my
>>>> quote utterly refutes it.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You are an idiot.  I am referring to the ability to get lossless
>>> support to the headphones.
>>
>> Then you should have said that.
>>
>>>   Apple codecs do NOT support transfer of lossless. Apple provides
>>> only a crude bluetooth capability.  To get true high fidelity to the
>>> headphones requires AptX HD or something better OTHER than Apples
>>> Bluetooth.  My FIIO player can take the lossless 192/24 bit from
>>> Apple Music and get it LOSSLESSLY to the the headphones.  Which are
>>> something other than Apple products which do not support it.
>>
>> So when you said that the IPHONE did not support 192/24 lossless...
>>
>> ...you were just wrong...
>>
>> ...twice.
>>
>> Once for making the claim.
>>
>> Again, for not clearly stating what you now claim you meant.
>>
>>
>>
>   More lies.  The iphone DOES NOT support lossless music because it has
> no way to get audio to the headphones by something other than lossy
> bluetooth.

On 2023-11-22 15:18, Wally J wrote:
> John <nospam@nospam.com> wrote
>
>> More lies. The iphone DOES NOT support lossless music because it has
>> no way to get audio to the headphones by something other than lossy
>> bluetooth.
>
> You may need to understand two things about Alan Baker to understand him.
> a. He's an idiot (truly - like none you've ever met before).
> (As an example, he claims to be a 'racer' and 'teacher' and to
> own BMWs, and yet he doesn't even know what BMWs are called in
> all racing circuits and by people who know the vehicle brand.

I am a road racing driver and instructor...

....and I own a 2012 BMW 135i...

....and I can easily prove any of those.

I'll not bother with the rest of Arlen's post, but let you judge his
credibility based on the above facts.

On 2023-11-22 14:51, John wrote:
> On 11/22/2023 2:35 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-11-22 14:29, John wrote:
>>> On 11/22/2023 1:53 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2023-11-22 12:57, John wrote:
>>>>> On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>>>>>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing
>>>>>>>> will...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for
>>>>>>>> iPhones*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack
>>>>>>>> is more
>>>>>>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is
>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>>> functional by definition)...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an
>>>>>>>> important safety
>>>>>>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>>>>>>> disagree that
>>>>>>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019
>>>>>>>> to today...
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet
>>>>>>>> this standard.
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio
>>>>>>>> emergency feature.
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the
>>>>>>>> standard AUX jack.
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important
>>>>>>>> portable-memory slot.
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>>>>>>> unfortunately.
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor
>>>>>>>> Apple user.
>>>>>>>>   AUX
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>>   FM
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>>   SD
>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>>>>>>> a. 75% AUX
>>>>>>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>>>>>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>>>>>>> a. 0% AUX
>>>>>>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>>>>>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet
>>>>>>>> another reason
>>>>>>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>>>>>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks basic
>>>>>>>> hardware.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio
>>>>>>> codecs. Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits
>>>>>>> but iPhone 15 Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore
>>>>>>> you have to buy an Android Phone or Android based music player to
>>>>>>> get the best music high fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a
>>>>>>> legitimate gripe with Apple from an Apple fan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bzzzzzzt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all
>>>>>> of the original data. Apple has developed its own lossless audio
>>>>>> compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC).
>>>>>> The entire Apple Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in
>>>>>> resolutions ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to
>>>>>> 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You were saying?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever.  Apple
>>>>> devices like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which ARE
>>>>> REQUIRED for maximum performance with headphones while playing back
>>>>> 192/24 bit ALAC which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO player does
>>>>> support that with Apple Music and sounds a lot fucking better.  A lot.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, but your unsupported assertions aren't enough.
>>>
>>>
>>> Prove Apple provides something other than lossy Bluetooth as a way to
>>> get wireless audio to headphones.   You cannot.  Android products do.
>>
>> I don't have to prove it.
>>
>> Your original post doesn't make any mention of Bluetooth. I'll quote
>> it for you in its entirety:
>>
>> 'One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
>> Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone
>> 15 Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore you have to buy
>> an Android Phone or Android based music player to get the best music
>> high fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a legitimate gripe with
>> Apple from an Apple fan.'
>>
>> Perhaps if you could learn to say what you mean?
>>
>> :-)
>
> It is completely accurate.  Apple Music supports 192/24 bit but Apple
> products like iPhone and Airpods Max do not support it.  As the iPhone
> uses Bluetooth to transmit the audio to external headphones. Completely
> accurate statement and easily understandable unless one is an idiot.

Why must you double-down on your bullshit?

iPhones DO support 192kHz/24-bit lossless.

That's just a fact.

Apple's Bluetooth options don't support it, but that's not the same thing.

On 2023-11-22, John <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> the iPhone uses Bluetooth to transmit the audio to external
> headphonesi

Not to wired headphones, it doesn't. And don't think the rest of us
didn't notice you didn't mention "wireless" in your initial factually
incorrect post.

> Completely accurate statement

Nope. Mostly false statement based on a qualifier you failed to mention.

> idiot.

Projection.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 11/22/2023 1:54 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-11-22 13:02, John wrote:
>> On 11/22/2023 12:57 PM, John wrote:
>>> On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>>>>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>>>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing will...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack is
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is less
>>>>>> functional by definition)...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an
>>>>>> important safety
>>>>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>>>>> disagree that
>>>>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019 to
>>>>>> today...
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet this
>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio emergency
>>>>>> feature.
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the standard
>>>>>> AUX jack.
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important
>>>>>> portable-memory slot.
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>>>>> unfortunately.
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor
>>>>>> Apple user.
>>>>>>   AUX
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>   FM
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>   SD
>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>>>>> a. 75% AUX
>>>>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>>>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>>>>> a. 0% AUX
>>>>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>>>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet another
>>>>>> reason
>>>>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>>>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks basic
>>>>>> hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
>>>>> Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but
>>>>> iPhone 15 Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore you
>>>>> have to buy an Android Phone or Android based music player to get
>>>>> the best music high fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a
>>>>> legitimate gripe with Apple from an Apple fan.
>>>>
>>>> Bzzzzzzt.
>>>>
>>>> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all of
>>>> the original data. Apple has developed its own lossless audio
>>>> compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC). The
>>>> entire Apple Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in resolutions
>>>> ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>>>>
>>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>>>>
>>>> You were saying?
>>>
>>>
>>> I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever.  Apple
>>> devices like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which ARE
>>> REQUIRED for maximum performance with headphones while playing back
>>> 192/24 bit ALAC which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO player does
>>> support that with Apple Music and sounds a lot fucking better.  A lot.
>>
>>
>> Further more intelligent people realize the bluetooth codec Apple uses
>> to connect to its devices is just plain crude.   Airpods Max do not
>> support AptXHD or other advanced codecs and sound like crap compared
>> to capable headphones like B and W PX8s.   Its obvious Alan has
>> absolutely ZERO audio background.
>>
>
> Your claim was that:
>
> 'Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone 15
> Pro and other models do not support it.'
>
> And nothing you've replied with supports that claim, whereas my quote
> utterly refutes it.
>

You are an idiot. I am referring to the ability to get lossless support
to the headphones. Apple codecs do NOT support transfer of lossless.
Apple provides only a crude bluetooth capability. To get true high
fidelity to the headphones requires AptX HD or something better OTHER
than Apples Bluetooth. My FIIO player can take the lossless 192/24 bit
from Apple Music and get it LOSSLESSLY to the the headphones. Which are
something other than Apple products which do not support it.

On 11/22/2023 1:53 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-11-22 12:57, John wrote:
>> On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>>>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing will...
>>>>>
>>>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>
>>>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack is more
>>>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is less
>>>>> functional by definition)...
>>>>>
>>>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an
>>>>> important safety
>>>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>>>
>>>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>>>> disagree that
>>>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>>>
>>>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019 to
>>>>> today...
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>
>>>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet this
>>>>> standard.
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>
>>>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio emergency
>>>>> feature.
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>
>>>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the standard
>>>>> AUX jack.
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important
>>>>> portable-memory slot.
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>
>>>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>>>> unfortunately.
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>>>
>>>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor Apple
>>>>> user.
>>>>>   AUX
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>   FM
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>   SD
>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>
>>>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>>>> a. 75% AUX
>>>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>>>> a. 0% AUX
>>>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>>>
>>>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet another
>>>>> reason
>>>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks basic
>>>>> hardware.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
>>>> Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone
>>>> 15 Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore you have to
>>>> buy an Android Phone or Android based music player to get the best
>>>> music high fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a legitimate
>>>> gripe with Apple from an Apple fan.
>>>
>>> Bzzzzzzt.
>>>
>>> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all of
>>> the original data. Apple has developed its own lossless audio
>>> compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC). The
>>> entire Apple Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in resolutions
>>> ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>>>
>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>>>
>>> You were saying?
>>
>>
>> I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever.  Apple devices
>> like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which ARE REQUIRED
>> for maximum performance with headphones while playing back 192/24 bit
>> ALAC which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO player does support that
>> with Apple Music and sounds a lot fucking better.  A lot.
>
> Sorry, but your unsupported assertions aren't enough.

Prove Apple provides something other than lossy Bluetooth as a way to
get wireless audio to headphones. You cannot. Android products do.

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote

>> the iPhone uses Bluetooth to transmit the audio to external
>> headphonesi
>
> Not to wired headphones, it doesn't. And don't think the rest of us
> didn't notice you didn't mention "wireless" in your initial factually
> incorrect post.

Why are you trying to make excuses for what everyone else already knew?

It was clear from the start he was talking about Apple's crippled wireless
setup, Jolly Roger - so don't blame "John" for your lack of comprehension.

It seems "John" made a sensible case, where, yet again, for the umpteenth
time, the crippled iPhone lacks basic high standards Android always had.

On 2023-11-22 19:41, Wally J wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
>
>>> the iPhone uses Bluetooth to transmit the audio to external
>>> headphonesi
>>
>> Not to wired headphones, it doesn't. And don't think the rest of us
>> didn't notice you didn't mention "wireless" in your initial factually
>> incorrect post.
>
> Why are you trying to make excuses for what everyone else already knew?
>
> It was clear from the start he was talking about Apple's crippled wireless
> setup, Jolly Roger - so don't blame "John" for your lack of comprehension.

Here is his entire first post on the subject:

'One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone 15
Pro and other models do not support it. Therefore you have to buy an
Android Phone or Android based music player to get the best music high
fidelity off of Apple Music. There is a legitimate gripe with Apple
from an Apple fan. '

Point out the part that mentions "wireless setup" at all.

That would be great!

On 2023-11-23, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2023-11-22 19:41, Wally J wrote:
>> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
>>
>>>> the iPhone uses Bluetooth to transmit the audio to external
>>>> headphonesi
>>>
>>> Not to wired headphones, it doesn't. And don't think the rest of us
>>> didn't notice you didn't mention "wireless" in your initial
>>> factually incorrect post.
>>
>> Why are you trying to make excuses for what everyone else already
>> knew?
>>
>> It was clear from the start he was talking about Apple's crippled
>> wireless setup, Jolly Roger - so don't blame "John" for your lack of
>> comprehension.
>
> Here is his entire first post on the subject:
>
> 'One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
> Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone
> 15 Pro and other models do not support it. Therefore you have to buy
> an Android Phone or Android based music player to get the best music
> high fidelity off of Apple Music. There is a legitimate gripe with
> Apple from an Apple fan. '
>
> Point out the part that mentions "wireless setup" at all.
>
> That would be great!

He won't because he *can't*, because the weak troll is weak. Their
emotional and intellectual intelligence is woefully inept, because they
are mental weaklings.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 11/22/2023 3:31 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-11-22 14:52, John wrote:
>> On 11/22/2023 2:34 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-22 14:27, John wrote:
>>>> On 11/22/2023 1:54 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-11-22 13:02, John wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/22/2023 12:57 PM, John wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing
>>>>>>>>>> will...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>>>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>>>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for
>>>>>>>>>> iPhones*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack
>>>>>>>>>> is more
>>>>>>>>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone
>>>>>>>>>> is less
>>>>>>>>>> functional by definition)...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an
>>>>>>>>>> important safety
>>>>>>>>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>>>>>>>>> disagree that
>>>>>>>>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from
>>>>>>>>>> 2019 to today...
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet
>>>>>>>>>> this standard.
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio
>>>>>>>>>> emergency feature.
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the
>>>>>>>>>> standard AUX jack.
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important
>>>>>>>>>> portable-memory slot.
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately.
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor
>>>>>>>>>> Apple user.
>>>>>>>>>>   AUX
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>>>>   FM
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>>>>   SD
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>>>>>>>>> a. 75% AUX
>>>>>>>>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>>>>>>>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>>>>>>>>> a. 0% AUX
>>>>>>>>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>>>>>>>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet
>>>>>>>>>> another reason
>>>>>>>>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>>>>>>>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks
>>>>>>>>>> basic hardware.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio
>>>>>>>>> codecs. Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24
>>>>>>>>> bits but iPhone 15 Pro and other models do not support it.
>>>>>>>>> Therefore you have to buy an Android Phone or Android based
>>>>>>>>> music player to get the best music high fidelity off of Apple
>>>>>>>>> Music.   There is a legitimate gripe with Apple from an Apple fan.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bzzzzzzt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves
>>>>>>>> all of the original data. Apple has developed its own lossless
>>>>>>>> audio compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec
>>>>>>>> (ALAC). The entire Apple Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in
>>>>>>>> resolutions ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to
>>>>>>>> 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You were saying?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever.  Apple
>>>>>>> devices like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which
>>>>>>> ARE REQUIRED for maximum performance with headphones while
>>>>>>> playing back 192/24 bit ALAC which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO
>>>>>>> player does support that with Apple Music and sounds a lot
>>>>>>> fucking better.  A lot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Further more intelligent people realize the bluetooth codec Apple
>>>>>> uses to connect to its devices is just plain crude.   Airpods Max
>>>>>> do not support AptXHD or other advanced codecs and sound like crap
>>>>>> compared to capable headphones like B and W PX8s.   Its obvious
>>>>>> Alan has absolutely ZERO audio background.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your claim was that:
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but
>>>>> iPhone 15 Pro and other models do not support it.'
>>>>>
>>>>> And nothing you've replied with supports that claim, whereas my
>>>>> quote utterly refutes it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are an idiot.  I am referring to the ability to get lossless
>>>> support to the headphones.
>>>
>>> Then you should have said that.
>>>
>>>>   Apple codecs do NOT support transfer of lossless. Apple provides
>>>> only a crude bluetooth capability.  To get true high fidelity to the
>>>> headphones requires AptX HD or something better OTHER than Apples
>>>> Bluetooth.  My FIIO player can take the lossless 192/24 bit from
>>>> Apple Music and get it LOSSLESSLY to the the headphones.  Which are
>>>> something other than Apple products which do not support it.
>>>
>>> So when you said that the IPHONE did not support 192/24 lossless...
>>>
>>> ...you were just wrong...
>>>
>>> ...twice.
>>>
>>> Once for making the claim.
>>>
>>> Again, for not clearly stating what you now claim you meant.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>    More lies.  The iphone DOES NOT support lossless music because it
>> has no way to get audio to the headphones by something other than
>> lossy bluetooth.
>
> How about wired earbuds?
>
> 'You can listen to lossless on an iPhone or iPad updated to the latest
> version of iOS or iPadOS using:
>
> A wired connection to headphones, receivers, or powered speakers'
>
> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT212183>
>
> Ooops: wrong again!

On 11/22/2023 3:41 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-11-22 14:51, John wrote:
>> On 11/22/2023 2:35 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-22 14:29, John wrote:
>>>> On 11/22/2023 1:53 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-11-22 12:57, John wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/19/2023 7:33 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2023-11-19 18:09, John wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/17/2023 4:06 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>>>>>>>> If this doesn't convince you the iPhone is crippled, nothing
>>>>>>>>> will...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a. AUX Jacks are 75% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>>>> b. FM Radio is 50% of Android models; *0% choice for iPhones*
>>>>>>>>> c. Portable memory is 71% of Android models; *0% choice for
>>>>>>>>> iPhones*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given nobody sensible would claim a phone without the AUX jack
>>>>>>>>> is more
>>>>>>>>> functional than a phone without it (as without it, the phone is
>>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>>>> functional by definition)...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And given nobody sensible would claim an FM radio isn't an
>>>>>>>>> important safety
>>>>>>>>> feature in a phone during an emergency...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nor would anyone who understands the power of portable memory
>>>>>>>>> disagree that
>>>>>>>>> it's a very handy way to privately move data between devices...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Of the total of 2,548 Android models offered for sale from 2019
>>>>>>>>> to today...
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For the AUX jack, 1,907 (75%) of current Android models meet
>>>>>>>>> this standard.
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for FM Radio, 1,257 Androids (50%) have the FM radio
>>>>>>>>> emergency feature.
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Where 1,163 (46%) have both the emergency FM radio & the
>>>>>>>>> standard AUX jack.
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let's look at the 1,801 (71%) with the all-important
>>>>>>>>> portable-memory slot.
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But only 112 with a removable battery, which is less than 5%
>>>>>>>>> unfortunately.
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Compare those choices Android users have to those of the poor
>>>>>>>>> Apple user.
>>>>>>>>>   AUX
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>>>   FM
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3>
>>>>>>>>>   SD
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1,2&sOSes=3&idCardslot=1>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In summary, the choices for Android are:
>>>>>>>>> a. 75% AUX
>>>>>>>>> b. 50% FM Radio
>>>>>>>>> c. 71% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's a _lot_ of choices (especially compared to Apple choices):
>>>>>>>>> a. 0% AUX
>>>>>>>>> b. 0% FM Radio
>>>>>>>>> c. 0% SD SLOT
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The lack of basic hardware functionality on iPhones is yet
>>>>>>>>> another reason
>>>>>>>>> why anyone claiming to "compare" the two platforms, has to ignore
>>>>>>>>> everything that makes a phone useful - as the iPhone lacks
>>>>>>>>> basic hardware.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio
>>>>>>>> codecs. Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24
>>>>>>>> bits but iPhone 15 Pro and other models do not support it.
>>>>>>>> Therefore you have to buy an Android Phone or Android based
>>>>>>>> music player to get the best music high fidelity off of Apple
>>>>>>>> Music.   There is a legitimate gripe with Apple from an Apple fan.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bzzzzzzt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all
>>>>>>> of the original data. Apple has developed its own lossless audio
>>>>>>> compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC).
>>>>>>> The entire Apple Music catalog is encoded using ALAC in
>>>>>>> resolutions ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to
>>>>>>> 24-bit/192 kHz.'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph14e213417/ios>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You were saying?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am saying you are as technically incompetent as ever.  Apple
>>>>>> devices like iPhone 15 do not support codecs like AptxHD which ARE
>>>>>> REQUIRED for maximum performance with headphones while playing
>>>>>> back 192/24 bit ALAC which Apple Music provides.  My FIIO player
>>>>>> does support that with Apple Music and sounds a lot fucking
>>>>>> better.  A lot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, but your unsupported assertions aren't enough.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Prove Apple provides something other than lossy Bluetooth as a way
>>>> to get wireless audio to headphones.   You cannot.  Android products
>>>> do.
>>>
>>> I don't have to prove it.
>>>
>>> Your original post doesn't make any mention of Bluetooth. I'll quote
>>> it for you in its entirety:
>>>
>>> 'One area where iPhones fail is in support of lossless audio codecs.
>>> Apple Music has lossless support for up to 192khz/24 bits but iPhone
>>> 15 Pro and other models do not support it.  Therefore you have to buy
>>> an Android Phone or Android based music player to get the best music
>>> high fidelity off of Apple Music.   There is a legitimate gripe with
>>> Apple from an Apple fan.'
>>>
>>> Perhaps if you could learn to say what you mean?
>>>
>>> :-)
>>
>> It is completely accurate.  Apple Music supports 192/24 bit but Apple
>> products like iPhone and Airpods Max do not support it.  As the iPhone
>> uses Bluetooth to transmit the audio to external headphones.
>> Completely accurate statement and easily understandable unless one is
>> an idiot.
>
> Why must you double-down on your bullshit?
>
> iPhones DO support 192kHz/24-bit lossless.
>
> That's just a fact.
>
> Apple's Bluetooth options don't support it, but that's not the same thing.

On 11/22/2023 4:39 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-11-22, John <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>> the iPhone uses Bluetooth to transmit the audio to external
>> headphonesi
>
> Not to wired headphones, it doesn't. And don't think the rest of us
> didn't notice you didn't mention "wireless" in your initial factually
> incorrect post.
>
>> Completely accurate statement
>
> Nope. Mostly false statement based on a qualifier you failed to mention.
>
>> idiot.
>
> Projection.
>
Nobody uses wired headphones any more. I assumed a certain minimum
level of technical competence. Even using wired headphones the iphone
supports only 48k not 192 k. So my statement was completely accurate.
With Android I can get 192/24 bit to wireless headphones from the
Apple Music Android App. Thats a fact. The improved sound quality is
incredible,.