On 19/10/2021 03.14, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> Às 14:47 de 18/10/21, J.O. Aho escreveu:
>> On 17/10/2021 20.15, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>>
>>> That's the main point, Carlos. Why doesn't my PC (kernel, bios,
>>> whatever) is unable to control the temperature after suspend/wake?
>>> Besides, why thermald also seems to do anything to stop temp rising?
>>> At least the sensors are working - I can monitor them and, at least,
>>> lowering the CPU's freqs result in temps lowering. Also the fans are
>>> able to go to higher RPM. If I manually put them in boost mode, they are
>>> able to stop the temp rising!
>>> Immediately after (re)boot the system never goes above 97ºC!
>>
>> I know I did tell you to test to reload the the thermald service and you
>> said it didn't make any difference, what about
>>  - stop thermald
>>  - rmmod the cpu temp module
>>  - modprobe the cpu temp module
>>  - start thermald
>>
>> I'm not even sure if you can remove the module.
> Good idea, but unfortunately it didn't work!
> I managed to remove all thermal related modules and installed them
> again. No success! Temp keeps rising until I kill the full cpu test script!

Take a look at this thread at github:
https://github.com/intel/thermal_daemon/issues/268

In the comment
https://github.com/intel/thermal_daemon/issues/268#issuecomment-788709112
it's mentioned that the thermald works after suspension after a patched
version was used.

As I understand you can increase the debug information to get more info
about what thermald is doing, that could maybe help while trying to
figure it out.

--

//Aho

Às 06:55 de 19/10/21, J.O. Aho escreveu:
> On 19/10/2021 03.14, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>> Às 14:47 de 18/10/21, J.O. Aho escreveu:
>>> On 17/10/2021 20.15, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's the main point, Carlos. Why doesn't my PC (kernel, bios,
>>>> whatever) is unable to control the temperature after suspend/wake?
>>>> Besides, why thermald also seems to do anything to stop temp rising?
>>>> At least the sensors are working - I can monitor them and, at least,
>>>> lowering the CPU's freqs result in temps lowering. Also the fans are
>>>> able to go to higher RPM. If I manually put them in boost mode, they
>>>> are
>>>> able to stop the temp rising!
>>>> Immediately after (re)boot the system never goes above 97ºC!
>>>
>>> I know I did tell you to test to reload the the thermald service and you
>>> said it didn't make any difference, what about
>>>   - stop thermald
>>>   - rmmod the cpu temp module
>>>   - modprobe the cpu temp module
>>>   - start thermald
>>>
>>> I'm not even sure if you can remove the module.
>> Good idea, but unfortunately it didn't work!
>> I managed to remove all thermal related modules and installed them
>> again. No success! Temp keeps rising until I kill the full cpu test
>> script!
>
> Take a look at this thread at github:
> https://github.com/intel/thermal_daemon/issues/268
>
> In the comment
> https://github.com/intel/thermal_daemon/issues/268#issuecomment-788709112
> it's mentioned that the thermald works after suspension after a patched
> version was used.
>
> As I understand you can increase the debug information to get more info
> about what thermald is doing, that could maybe help while trying to
> figure it out.
>
I'll try that. Not much hope, however.
The patch is included in the last version.
With the version of kubuntu 20.04:
- I have tried --adaptative and --ignore-cpuid--check. It didn't
complain but I could not determine if they are both active.

It should be expectable that the patch was back ported to kubuntu 20.04.
Anyway ... I'll try the last version again, but this time with both
switches active, to see what happens.

Thank you.

Às 00:09 de 20/10/21, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
> Às 06:55 de 19/10/21, J.O. Aho escreveu:
>> On 19/10/2021 03.14, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>>> Às 14:47 de 18/10/21, J.O. Aho escreveu:
>>>> On 17/10/2021 20.15, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's the main point, Carlos. Why doesn't my PC (kernel, bios,
>>>>> whatever) is unable to control the temperature after suspend/wake?
>>>>> Besides, why thermald also seems to do anything to stop temp rising?
>>>>> At least the sensors are working - I can monitor them and, at least,
>>>>> lowering the CPU's freqs result in temps lowering. Also the fans are
>>>>> able to go to higher RPM. If I manually put them in boost mode, they
>>>>> are
>>>>> able to stop the temp rising!
>>>>> Immediately after (re)boot the system never goes above 97ºC!
>>>>
>>>> I know I did tell you to test to reload the the thermald service and you
>>>> said it didn't make any difference, what about
>>>>   - stop thermald
>>>>   - rmmod the cpu temp module
>>>>   - modprobe the cpu temp module
>>>>   - start thermald
>>>>
>>>> I'm not even sure if you can remove the module.
>>> Good idea, but unfortunately it didn't work!
>>> I managed to remove all thermal related modules and installed them
>>> again. No success! Temp keeps rising until I kill the full cpu test
>>> script!
>>
>> Take a look at this thread at github:
>> https://github.com/intel/thermal_daemon/issues/268
>>
>> In the comment
>> https://github.com/intel/thermal_daemon/issues/268#issuecomment-788709112
>> it's mentioned that the thermald works after suspension after a patched
>> version was used.
>>
>> As I understand you can increase the debug information to get more info
>> about what thermald is doing, that could maybe help while trying to
>> figure it out.
>>
> I'll try that. Not much hope, however.
> The patch is included in the last version.
> With the version of kubuntu 20.04:
> - I have tried --adaptative and --ignore-cpuid--check. It didn't
> complain but I could not determine if they are both active.
>
> It should be expectable that the patch was back ported to kubuntu 20.04.
> Anyway ... I'll try the last version again, but this time with both
> switches active, to see what happens.

And NO :-(
Not working, same symptoms.
For some reason, bios and/or kernel does not stop temperature from
rising after suspension and thermald seems to have no role on this.
Removing it does not change anything.

Log was not very ellucidative for me. The only message with some sense
is something that says it's too early for acting or something like that.
When I get some patience I'll give it another try.

Thanks anyway.
Paulo

On 19/10/2021 02.49, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> Às 13:26 de 18/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:
>> On 17/10/2021 20.15, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>>> Às 12:07 de 17/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> I have used two machines with limited cooling; one is a mini computer
>>>> box, fanless (idea is to be put on sitting room by the TV). When it is
>>>> doing something intense, it overheats and it throttles the CPU down.
>>>> Another is a laptop I prepared for another person, with a relatively
>>>> fast processor that can overheat if you demand some job for minutes, and
>>>> then it throttles down.
>>>>
>>>> Both seem to be designed for this; be running normally with a small
>>>> load, but sprint on demand if the user needs to run something. But they
>>>> can not keep up the load for a long time because they have no fan, or a
>>>> too small fan.
>>>>
>>>> Now, I did not install any daemon or configure anything, it was the
>>>> kernel itself doing it all, our of the box.
>>>>
>>>> Both have only Intel graphics.
>>>>
>>>> The minipc is a "msi CubiN Mini-PC" (I can't find exact model), cpu is
>>>> "Intel(R) Pentium(R) CPU  N3710  @ 1.60GHz" (4 cores)
>>>>
>>>> The laptop is "Lenovo ThinkPad E15 Intel Core i5-10210U/8GB/512GB
>>>> SSD/15.6"
>>>>
>>>> In both cases I installed openSUSE Leap 15
>>>>
>>> That's the main point, Carlos. Why doesn't my PC (kernel, bios,
>>> whatever) is unable to control the temperature after suspend/wake?
>>> Besides, why thermald also seems to do anything to stop temp rising?
>>> At least the sensors are working - I can monitor them and, at least,
>>> lowering the CPU's freqs result in temps lowering. Also the fans are
>>> able to go to higher RPM. If I manually put them in boost mode, they are
>>> able to stop the temp rising!
>>> Immediately after (re)boot the system never goes above 97ºC!
>>
>> Isengard:~ # ps afx | grep thermal
>>   615 ?        I<     0:00  \_ [acpi_thermal_pm]
>> 23830 pts/23   S+     0:00          \_ grep --color=auto thermal
>> Isengard:~ #
>>
>> I'm not running thermald.
> Yes! The BIOS and/or the kernel should be enough to avoid temperatures
> problems. thermald, should at least be a last resource protection.
> None of them avoid the temperature from rising after suspension!
> At least one of them does before any suspension occurred. The
> temperature never rises above 97ºC.

I have no personal experience with thermald, so I can't offer advice on it.

>
>>
>>>
>>> About Opensuse ... that was the best and more stable distro I have ever
>>> used. I dropped it because the problem of install certain type of SW -
>>> lack of information or packages, and the unavailability of some library
>>> sources for development. In debian likes I just need to install <lib
>>> name>-dev. One example was libgcrypt20.
>>
>> What? All sources are available in openSUSE.
>>
>>
>> http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/leap/15.2/repo/oss/src/libgcrypt-1.8.2-lp152.16.8.src.rpm
>>
>>
>>
>> You just need to activate the sources repo in YaST. If some particular
>> package is missing the source, declare a bug.
>>
>>
>> If you just need the files to compile some other thing, you need the
>> libname-devel package instead.
>>
>> http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.2/repo/oss/x86_64/libgcrypt-devel-1.8.2-lp152.16.8.x86_64.rpm
>>
> Yes, now they are. But they weren't when I needed them.
> May be I'll give OS a try again.

In the case a source package is missing, just declare a bug.

I saw yesterday this command to zypper:

source-install (si) name...
Install specified source packages and their build
dependencies. If the name of a binary package is given, the
corresponding source package is looked up and installed instead.

This command will try to find the newest available versions
of the source packages and uses rpm -i to install them, optionally
together with all the packages that are required to build the source
package. The default location where rpm installs source packages to is
/usr/src/packages/{SPECS,SOURCES}, but the values can be changed in your
local rpm configuration. In case of doubt try executing rpm --eval
"%{_specdir} and %{_sourcedir}".

Note that the source packages must be available in
repositories you are using. You can check whether a repository contains
any source packages using the following command:

$ zypper search -t srcpackage -r alias|name|#|URI

$ zypper search -t srcpackage -r alias|name|#|URI

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Às 13:21 de 20/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:
> On 19/10/2021 02.49, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>> Às 13:26 de 18/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:
>>> On 17/10/2021 20.15, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>>>> Às 12:07 de 17/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:

....

>>>> About Opensuse ... that was the best and more stable distro I have ever
>>>> used. I dropped it because the problem of install certain type of SW -
>>>> lack of information or packages, and the unavailability of some library
>>>> sources for development. In debian likes I just need to install <lib
>>>> name>-dev. One example was libgcrypt20.
>>>
>>> What? All sources are available in openSUSE.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/leap/15.2/repo/oss/src/libgcrypt-1.8.2-lp152.16.8.src.rpm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You just need to activate the sources repo in YaST. If some particular
>>> package is missing the source, declare a bug.
>>>
>>>
>>> If you just need the files to compile some other thing, you need the
>>> libname-devel package instead.
>>>
>>> http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.2/repo/oss/x86_64/libgcrypt-devel-1.8.2-lp152.16.8.x86_64.rpm
>>>
>>>
>> Yes, now they are. But they weren't when I needed them.
>> May be I'll give OS a try again.
>
>
> In the case a source package is missing, just declare a bug.
>
>
> I saw yesterday this command to zypper:
>
>
>        source-install (si) name...
>            Install specified source packages and their build
> dependencies. If the name of a binary package is given, the
> corresponding source package is looked up and installed instead.
>
>            This command will try to find the newest available versions
> of the source packages and uses rpm -i to install them, optionally
> together with all the packages that are required to build the source
> package. The default location where rpm installs source packages to is
> /usr/src/packages/{SPECS,SOURCES}, but the values can be changed in your
> local rpm configuration. In case of doubt try executing rpm --eval
> "%{_specdir} and %{_sourcedir}".
>
>            Note that the source packages must be available in
> repositories you are using. You can check whether a repository contains
> any source packages using the following command:
>
>                $ zypper search -t srcpackage -r alias|name|#|URI
>
>                $ zypper search -t srcpackage -r alias|name|#|URI

OK, let's say I want to give opensuse a try.

Let's say I install it and it still cannot handle my temperature
problem. I need to check this before I go into install and configure all
SW I use. This takes a couple of weeks.
How to delete it?

I know I did it in the past, but just to be sure ... is it:

1. boot into my actual system.
2. do grub-install or grub-install /dev/nvme0n1 (disk)?
3. efibootmgr -B -b <bootnum>?
4. Do I need further cleans in /boot/efi?

Is this enough?

Thank you.

On 20/10/2021 19.22, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> Às 13:21 de 20/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:

> OK, let's say I want to give opensuse a try.
>
> Let's say I install it and it still cannot handle my temperature
> problem. I need to check this before I go into install and configure all
> SW I use. This takes a couple of weeks.
> How to delete it?
>
> I know I did it in the past, but just to be sure ... is it:
>
> 1. boot into my actual system.
> 2. do grub-install or grub-install /dev/nvme0n1 (disk)?

I don't think you need that one.

> 3. efibootmgr -B -b <bootnum>?

Yes.

> 4. Do I need further cleans in /boot/efi?

You can erase the directory /boot/efi/EFI/opensuse, and of course the
root partition.

Maybe you could try one of the live versions, put it under load, and see
what happens with the temps and the fans. It is not fully reliable, but
it is faster.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 20/10/2021 18:22, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> OK, let's say I want to give opensuse a try.

People just use a live Flash drive to try things. They don't install
anything.

Às 23:19 de 20/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:
> On 20/10/2021 19.22, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>> Às 13:21 de 20/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:
>
>
>> OK, let's say I want to give opensuse a try.
>>
>> Let's say I install it and it still cannot handle my temperature
>> problem. I need to check this before I go into install and configure all
>> SW I use. This takes a couple of weeks.
>> How to delete it?
>>
>> I know I did it in the past, but just to be sure ... is it:
>>
>> 1. boot into my actual system.
>> 2. do grub-install or grub-install /dev/nvme0n1 (disk)?
>
> I don't think you need that one.
Are you sure? What if I remove that partition content? Doesn't grub need
it? I am asking because I always believed (without fundament) that there
is always a main system for boot.

>
>> 3. efibootmgr -B -b <bootnum>?
>
> Yes.
>
>> 4. Do I need further cleans in /boot/efi?
>
> You can erase the directory /boot/efi/EFI/opensuse, and of course the
> root partition.
>
>
>
> Maybe you could try one of the live versions, put it under load, and see
> what happens with the temps and the fans. It is not fully reliable, but
> it is faster.
Is there a simple way to prepare a pen with r/w permissions from the
iso? I remember to use unetbootin, or something like that, to do it, but
it stopped working at a given point. Since then I have been using dd,
but this makes the pen readonly.
I would like to update the system, make some trivial confs, and install
some sw and it would be nice to make them permanent.
Don't take time with this if you don't know. In the meanwhile I'll
search the net and test on a VM.

Thanks
Paulo

Às 02:19 de 21/10/21, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
> Às 23:19 de 20/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:
>> On 20/10/2021 19.22, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>>> Às 13:21 de 20/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:
>>
....

>>
>> Maybe you could try one of the live versions, put it under load, and see
>> what happens with the temps and the fans. It is not fully reliable, but
>> it is faster.
> Is there a simple way to prepare a pen with r/w permissions from the
> iso? I remember to use unetbootin, or something like that, to do it, but
> it stopped working at a given point. Since then I have been using dd,
> but this makes the pen readonly.
> I would like to update the system, make some trivial confs, and install
> some sw and it would be nice to make them permanent.
> Don't take time with this if you don't know. In the meanwhile I'll
> search the net and test on a VM.
Just one more question I forgot ...
Is it the same to install from the live image or is it better to
download the installer image? I'm asking because I never found a distro
with both images.

Thank you.

On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 21:25:58 -0400, Paulo da Silva
>> Is there a simple way to prepare a pen with r/w permissions from the
>> iso? I remember to use unetbootin, or something like that, to do it, but
>> it stopped working at a given point. Since then I have been using dd,
>> but this makes the pen readonly.
>> I would like to update the system, make some trivial confs, and install
>> some sw and it would be nice to make them permanent.
>> Don't take time with this if you don't know. In the meanwhile I'll
>> search the net and test on a VM.

For Mageia, the isodumper program/package from the Mageia repos. When writing an
image to a usb stick, with the option to add a persistent partition selected, it
uses dd to write the image, then adds an ext4 partition to the remaining space with
the label mgalive-persist. The Mageia live iso images look for the partition, and if
found mounts it as an overlayfs so all changes made, including installing additional
packages, are stored for later use.

> Just one more question I forgot ...
> Is it the same to install from the live image or is it better to
> download the installer image? I'm asking because I never found a distro
> with both images.

When installing from a live iso, the contents of the iso (all files seen when
it's booted, not the iso file itself) are copied to the selected/mounted file
systems. If installing while running in live mode, and selecting the install
from the running live system, the changes made in live mode, including those
stored in the mgalive-persist file system, are included.

I expect other distros that support persistence use similar packages and methods.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org to davidwhodgins@teksavvy.com for
email replies.

Às 02:58 de 21/10/21, David W. Hodgins escreveu:
> On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 21:25:58 -0400, Paulo da Silva
>>> Is there a simple way to prepare a pen with r/w permissions from the
>>> iso? I remember to use unetbootin, or something like that, to do it, but
>>> it stopped working at a given point. Since then I have been using dd,
>>> but this makes the pen readonly.
>>> I would like to update the system, make some trivial confs, and install
>>> some sw and it would be nice to make them permanent.
>>> Don't take time with this if you don't know. In the meanwhile I'll
>>> search the net and test on a VM.
>
> For Mageia, the isodumper program/package from the Mageia repos. When
> writing an
> image to a usb stick, with the option to add a persistent partition
> selected, it
> uses dd to write the image, then adds an ext4 partition to the remaining
> space with
> the label mgalive-persist. The Mageia live iso images look for the
> partition, and if
> found mounts it as an overlayfs so all changes made, including
> installing additional
> packages, are stored for later use.
This is good. I don't know if Opensuse does the same. Most likely not.

>
>> Just one more question I forgot ...
>> Is it the same to install from the live image or is it better to
>> download the installer image? I'm asking because I never found a distro
>> with both images.
>
> When installing from a live iso, the contents of the iso (all files seen
> when
> it's booted, not the iso file itself) are copied to the selected/mounted
> file
> systems. If installing while running in live mode, and selecting the
> install
> from the running live system, the changes made in live mode, including
> those
> stored in the mgalive-persist file system, are included.
>
> I expect other distros that support persistence use similar packages and
> methods.
At least my network wifi configuration goes to the new installed system.
I'm not sure about the other stuff.

Thanks.
Paulo

On 21/10/2021 4:19, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> Às 23:19 de 20/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:
>> On 20/10/2021 19.22, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>>> Às 13:21 de 20/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:
>>
>>
>>> OK, let's say I want to give opensuse a try.
>>>
>>> Let's say I install it and it still cannot handle my temperature
>>> problem. I need to check this before I go into install and configure all
>>> SW I use. This takes a couple of weeks.
>>> How to delete it?
>>>
>>> I know I did it in the past, but just to be sure ... is it:
>>>
>>> 1. boot into my actual system.
>>> 2. do grub-install or grub-install /dev/nvme0n1 (disk)?
>>
>> I don't think you need that one.
> Are you sure? What if I remove that partition content? Doesn't grub need
> it? I am asking because I always believed (without fundament) that there
> is always a main system for boot.
>
>>
>>> 3. efibootmgr -B -b <bootnum>?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> 4. Do I need further cleans in /boot/efi?
>>
>> You can erase the directory /boot/efi/EFI/opensuse, and of course the
>> root partition.
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe you could try one of the live versions, put it under load, and see
>> what happens with the temps and the fans. It is not fully reliable, but
>> it is faster.
> Is there a simple way to prepare a pen with r/w permissions from the
> iso? I remember to use unetbootin, or something like that, to do it, but
> it stopped working at a given point. Since then I have been using dd,
> but this makes the pen readonly.
> I would like to update the system, make some trivial confs, and install
> some sw and it would be nice to make them permanent.
> Don't take time with this if you don't know. In the meanwhile I'll
> search the net and test on a VM.
>
> Thanks
> Paulo>

What distro are you trying?
If you install and use mkusb there is an option of creating a persistent (i.e read/write) bootable USB pen drive,
but limited to Debian or Ubuntu. (This is after all an Ubuntu newsgroup)
See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/mkusb

--
Mike R.
Home: http://alpha.mike-r.com/
QOTD: http://alpha.mike-r.com/qotd.php
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before
and: http://alpha.mike-r.com/jargon/T/top-post.html
Missile address: N31.7624/E34.9691

On 10/20/2021 7:04 PM, Ordinary Poster wrote:
> On 20/10/2021 18:22, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>> OK, let's say I want to give opensuse a try.
>
> People just use a live Flash drive to try things. They don't install
> anything.

Downloaded the 900MB "LiveDVD" one.

https://sjc.edge.kernel.org/opensuse/tumbleweed/iso/openSUSE-Tumbleweed-KDE-Live-x86_64-Snapshot20211016-Media.iso

Shows an install icon, but it will probably
be doing some sort of network install, with
some delays while it gets stuff from the network.

Whereas the 4GB version will at least have a few
files onboard.

For a one-off install, the 900MB might be the answer.
If you think you'll be installing more than once,
then it might be more important to get a larger
piece of media.

This is what I see in a VM, when clicking the Install
icon in the 900MB one.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/R085hy8s/900-MB-disc-has-install-icon.gif

Paul

On 21/10/2021 06.56, Paul wrote:
> On 10/20/2021 7:04 PM, Ordinary Poster wrote:
>> On 20/10/2021 18:22, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>>> OK, let's say I want to give opensuse a try.
>>
>> People just use a live Flash drive to try things. They don't install
>> anything.
>
> Downloaded the 900MB "LiveDVD" one.
>
> https://sjc.edge.kernel.org/opensuse/tumbleweed/iso/openSUSE-Tumbleweed-KDE-Live-x86_64-Snapshot20211016-Media.iso

That one is intended to be run as is, on the USB stick, without
installation, although installation is possible. There should be a KDE
version, another GNome, another XFCE, and another dedicated to rescue
work (the later two might be the same one).

All of them are intended to copy with dd from the image to the USB
device (say, /dev/sdb), destroying all the partitions (creates new
ones). On the first run they create a read/write partition where you can
save files. It is possible to add some packages with zypper (not the
kernel, though).

Don't try to "make them bootable", that would destroy them. Just copy to
the stick, unmodified, with dd or dedicated programs (as described in
the openSUSE wiki).

Then there are two other images, one of about 4GB (the DVD) and another
mall one for network install. Those are the pure installation images,
can not be "run". That is, of course they boot and run but what you get
has only the purpose of installation.

>
>
> Shows an install icon, but it will probably
> be doing some sort of network install, with
> some delays while it gets stuff from the network.
>
> Whereas the 4GB version will at least have a few
> files onboard.
>
> For a one-off install, the 900MB might be the answer.
> If you think you'll be installing more than once,
> then it might be more important to get a larger
> piece of media.
>
> This is what I see in a VM, when clicking the Install
> icon in the 900MB one.
>
>    [Picture]
>
>    https://i.postimg.cc/R085hy8s/900-MB-disc-has-install-icon.gif

If that's the "Tumbleweed-KDE-Live" you can just cancel the install and
use the system as is, no installation.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 21/10/2021 03.19, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> Às 23:19 de 20/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:
>> On 20/10/2021 19.22, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>>> Às 13:21 de 20/10/21, Carlos E.R. escreveu:
>>
>>
>>> OK, let's say I want to give opensuse a try.
>>>
>>> Let's say I install it and it still cannot handle my temperature
>>> problem. I need to check this before I go into install and configure all
>>> SW I use. This takes a couple of weeks.
>>> How to delete it?
>>>
>>> I know I did it in the past, but just to be sure ... is it:
>>>
>>> 1. boot into my actual system.
>>> 2. do grub-install or grub-install /dev/nvme0n1 (disk)?
>>
>> I don't think you need that one.
> Are you sure? What if I remove that partition content? Doesn't grub need
> it? I am asking because I always believed (without fundament) that there
> is always a main system for boot.

Not if you are using UEFI.

Of course, I'm never completely sure, specially if I did not do the
system myself ;-)

It is the code in the /boot/efi/EFI/opensuse directly which would call
the grub code or maybe a kernel loader.

And this code is called by UEFI code, and you change that with
"efibootmgr -B -b <bootnum>" everything else is not strictly required

>> Maybe you could try one of the live versions, put it under load, and see
>> what happens with the temps and the fans. It is not fully reliable, but
>> it is faster.
> Is there a simple way to prepare a pen with r/w permissions from the
> iso? I remember to use unetbootin, or something like that, to do it, but
> it stopped working at a given point. Since then I have been using dd,
> but this makes the pen readonly.

Just dd, if the ISO was prepared for it. I know the one named "rescue"
is, it is the one I use.

> I would like to update the system, make some trivial confs, and install
> some sw and it would be nice to make them permanent.
> Don't take time with this if you don't know. In the meanwhile I'll
> search the net and test on a VM.

The "rescue" iso should be perfect for testing how the system responds
how it behaves when overheating. Just tell it to clone a hard disk
partition to a compressed file with parallelization, it should overload
the CPU fast. No need to install your code and things.

I can find the script I use for this later today, different computer.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 10/21/2021 9:10 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 21/10/2021 06.56, Paul wrote:
>> This is what I see in a VM, when clicking the Install
>> icon in the 900MB one.
>>
>>     [Picture]
>>
>>     https://i.postimg.cc/R085hy8s/900-MB-disc-has-install-icon.gif
>
> If that's the "Tumbleweed-KDE-Live" you can just cancel the install and use the system as is, no installation.

When a person wants to run a specific graphics driver,
an install comes in handy for that case. Even a USB stick
with persistence would do, but persistence easily exhausts
the 4GB formulation, and it helps to have a larger
casper-rw than that. I think Rufus can do that (rufus.ie).

You might need a specific graphics driver, to get a machine
hot enough to tip over.

Paul

On 2021-10-21, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 21/10/2021 06.56, Paul wrote:
>> On 10/20/2021 7:04 PM, Ordinary Poster wrote:
>>> On 20/10/2021 18:22, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>>>> OK, let's say I want to give opensuse a try.
>>>
>>> People just use a live Flash drive to try things. They don't install
>>> anything.
>>
>> Downloaded the 900MB "LiveDVD" one.
>>
>> https://sjc.edge.kernel.org/opensuse/tumbleweed/iso/openSUSE-Tumbleweed-KDE-Live-x86_64-Snapshot20211016-Media.iso
>
> That one is intended to be run as is, on the USB stick, without
> installation, although installation is possible. There should be a KDE
> version, another GNome, another XFCE, and another dedicated to rescue
> work (the later two might be the same one).
>
> All of them are intended to copy with dd from the image to the USB
> device (say, /dev/sdb), destroying all the partitions (creates new
> ones). On the first run they create a read/write partition where you can
> save files. It is possible to add some packages with zypper (not the
> kernel, though).
>
> Don't try to "make them bootable", that would destroy them. Just copy to
> the stick, unmodified, with dd or dedicated programs (as described in
> the openSUSE wiki).
>
>
> Then there are two other images, one of about 4GB (the DVD) and another
> mall one for network install. Those are the pure installation images,
> can not be "run". That is, of course they boot and run but what you get
> has only the purpose of installation.
>
>>
>>
>> Shows an install icon, but it will probably
>> be doing some sort of network install, with
>> some delays while it gets stuff from the network.
>>
>> Whereas the 4GB version will at least have a few
>> files onboard.
>>
>> For a one-off install, the 900MB might be the answer.
>> If you think you'll be installing more than once,
>> then it might be more important to get a larger
>> piece of media.
>>
>> This is what I see in a VM, when clicking the Install
>> icon in the 900MB one.
>>
>>    [Picture]
>>
>>    https://i.postimg.cc/R085hy8s/900-MB-disc-has-install-icon.gif
>
> If that's the "Tumbleweed-KDE-Live" you can just cancel the install and
> use the system as is, no installation.
>
>

Install on an external SSD drive, and get a more realistic experience....if
it's a no go, you just rinse, repeat with another distro....

On 10/21/2021 10:43 AM, Paul wrote:
> On 10/21/2021 9:10 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 21/10/2021 06.56, Paul wrote:
>>> This is what I see in a VM, when clicking the Install
>>> icon in the 900MB one.
>>>
>>>     [Picture]
>>>
>>>     https://i.postimg.cc/R085hy8s/900-MB-disc-has-install-icon.gif
>>
>> If that's the "Tumbleweed-KDE-Live" you can just cancel the install and use the system as is, no installation.
>
> When a person wants to run a specific graphics driver,
> an install comes in handy for that case. Even a USB stick
> with persistence would do, but persistence easily exhausts
> the 4GB formulation, and it helps to have a larger
> casper-rw than that. I think Rufus can do that (rufus.ie).
>
> You might need a specific graphics driver, to get a machine
> hot enough to tip over.
>
>    Paul

For the OP, that distro is using a UEFI-only install,
so it expects GPT partitioning and UEFI boot in the BIOS.
That means it cannot share with a MSDOS partitioned disk
and legacy boot setup.

I had to back up my disk drive (MSDOS partitioned), clean
it off, then allow SUSE to use the whole thing for GPT, to
allow the install to quickly get under way. It says the
install will take 40 minutes. Afterwards, I will restore
from backup, to put the disk back in original condition.

If it supported MSDOS partitioning and legacy (CSM) boot,
I probably would have been able to come up with an install
plan so it would fit alongside UbuntuStudio.

I figured something was up, when I wasn't seeing the word
"hybrid" when scanning the ISO with "disktype" utility.

Paul

Paul

Às 18:22 de 27/09/21, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
> Hi all!
>
> From time to time - may be a month or a couple of hours - my computer
> completely freezes. Everything stops. The screen shows the last image.
> Not even the cursor moves. No keyboard key works including the
> Alt-PrtScreen keys, like REISUB.
>
> I need to press the power on/off button for 5 secs to restart it.
>
> After restart the journalctl -b -b1 shows nothing at the freeze time.
>
> I changed my NVIDIA driver to 470. I also tried to put the driver in
> ondemand status. No success. Sooner or later it freezes.
>
> Is there a way to get some information on what this is happening?
>
> I am using kubuntu 20.04.
>
> Thank you.
>

The current situation:

1. The sporadic "fan jets" are from the normal fan. Not the GPU one.
2. The "freezes" origin still unknown. Now I am almost sure that it does
not come from the BIOS. In fact, during a freeze, there was one
occurrence of several continuous "fan jets".
3. A couple of "fan jets" also occurred once while in the grub menu!
4. The uncontrollable rising of temperature of
/sys/devices/virtual/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp at full cpu after
suspend/wake also occurs with opensuse leap 15.3 live. Before
suspending, that temperature is kept stable at 97ºC.

I tried to use several kernels available in kubuntu, including an intel
version 5.13, but I was unable to get them boot in graphic mode - nvidia
470. Some more ... time and I'll try it without Nvidia drivers.

Thanks for your attention.
Paulo

On 10/29/21 16:36, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> Às 18:22 de 27/09/21, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
>> Hi all!
>>
>> From time to time - may be a month or a couple of hours - my computer
>> completely freezes. Everything stops. The screen shows the last image.
>> Not even the cursor moves. No keyboard key works including the
>> Alt-PrtScreen keys, like REISUB.
>>
>> I need to press the power on/off button for 5 secs to restart it.
>>
>> After restart the journalctl -b -b1 shows nothing at the freeze time.
>>
>> I changed my NVIDIA driver to 470. I also tried to put the driver in
>> ondemand status. No success. Sooner or later it freezes.
>>
>> Is there a way to get some information on what this is happening?
>>
>> I am using kubuntu 20.04.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>
> The current situation:
>
> 1. The sporadic "fan jets" are from the normal fan. Not the GPU one.
> 2. The "freezes" origin still unknown. Now I am almost sure that it does
> not come from the BIOS. In fact, during a freeze, there was one
> occurrence of several continuous "fan jets".
> 3. A couple of "fan jets" also occurred once while in the grub menu!
> 4. The uncontrollable rising of temperature of
> /sys/devices/virtual/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp at full cpu after
> suspend/wake also occurs with opensuse leap 15.3 live. Before
> suspending, that temperature is kept stable at 97ºC.
>
> I tried to use several kernels available in kubuntu, including an intel
> version 5.13, but I was unable to get them boot in graphic mode - nvidia
> 470. Some more ... time and I'll try it without Nvidia drivers.
>
> Thanks for your attention.
> Paulo
>
Have you opened the case and used compressed air to get the dust out?

How long has the CPU been in place under the heat sink. The grease or
thermal paste used can dry out and lose heat conductivity.

Good luck with your machine, Paulo.

bliss - if Linux was truely elitist I could not afford the entry fee.
--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

Às 01:33 de 30/10/21, Bobbie Sellers escreveu:
> On 10/29/21 16:36, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>> Às 18:22 de 27/09/21, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
>>> Hi all!
>>>
>>>  From time to time - may be a month or a couple of hours - my computer
>>> completely freezes. Everything stops. The screen shows the last image.
>>> Not even the cursor moves. No keyboard key works including the
>>> Alt-PrtScreen keys, like REISUB.
>>>
>>> I need to press the power on/off button for 5 secs to restart it.
>>>
>>> After restart the journalctl -b -b1 shows nothing at the freeze time.
>>>
>>> I changed my NVIDIA driver to 470. I also tried to put the driver in
>>> ondemand status. No success. Sooner or later it freezes.
>>>
>>> Is there a way to get some information on what this is happening?
>>>
>>> I am using kubuntu 20.04.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>
>> The current situation:
>>
>> 1. The sporadic "fan jets" are from the normal fan. Not the GPU one.
>> 2. The "freezes" origin still unknown. Now I am almost sure that it does
>> not come from the BIOS. In fact, during a freeze, there was one
>> occurrence of several continuous "fan jets".
>> 3. A couple of "fan jets" also occurred once while in the grub menu!
>> 4. The uncontrollable rising of temperature of
>> /sys/devices/virtual/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp at full cpu after
>> suspend/wake also occurs with opensuse leap 15.3 live. Before
>> suspending, that temperature is kept stable at 97ºC.
>>
>> I tried to use several kernels available in kubuntu, including an intel
>> version 5.13, but I was unable to get them boot in graphic mode - nvidia
>> 470. Some more ... time and I'll try it without Nvidia drivers.
>>
>> Thanks for your attention.
>> Paulo
>>
>  Have you opened the case and used compressed air to get the dust out?
>
>  How long has the CPU been in place under the heat sink.  The grease or
> thermal paste used can dry out and lose heat conductivity.
>
Of course it is very likely there are some problems with the
sensors/cooling system. But what I do not understand is why the
temperature gets controlled, by the kernel perhaps, before first
suspension and not after waking from suspension!
I have tried Opensuse and Clear linux. All have the same problem.
I have written a small script that successfully controls the temperature
just changing the CPU's freqs. I don't know how to act on the other
cooling systems. thermald, which was supposed to do this, fails miserabilly.

Regards.
Paulo

On 11/1/2021 4:13 PM, Paulo da Silva wrote:
> Às 01:33 de 30/10/21, Bobbie Sellers escreveu:
>> On 10/29/21 16:36, Paulo da Silva wrote:
>>> Às 18:22 de 27/09/21, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
>>>> Hi all!
>>>>
>>>>  From time to time - may be a month or a couple of hours - my computer
>>>> completely freezes. Everything stops. The screen shows the last image.
>>>> Not even the cursor moves. No keyboard key works including the
>>>> Alt-PrtScreen keys, like REISUB.
>>>>
>>>> I need to press the power on/off button for 5 secs to restart it.
>>>>
>>>> After restart the journalctl -b -b1 shows nothing at the freeze time.
>>>>
>>>> I changed my NVIDIA driver to 470. I also tried to put the driver in
>>>> ondemand status. No success. Sooner or later it freezes.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to get some information on what this is happening?
>>>>
>>>> I am using kubuntu 20.04.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The current situation:
>>>
>>> 1. The sporadic "fan jets" are from the normal fan. Not the GPU one.
>>> 2. The "freezes" origin still unknown. Now I am almost sure that it does
>>> not come from the BIOS. In fact, during a freeze, there was one
>>> occurrence of several continuous "fan jets".
>>> 3. A couple of "fan jets" also occurred once while in the grub menu!
>>> 4. The uncontrollable rising of temperature of
>>> /sys/devices/virtual/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp at full cpu after
>>> suspend/wake also occurs with opensuse leap 15.3 live. Before
>>> suspending, that temperature is kept stable at 97ºC.
>>>
>>> I tried to use several kernels available in kubuntu, including an intel
>>> version 5.13, but I was unable to get them boot in graphic mode - nvidia
>>> 470. Some more ... time and I'll try it without Nvidia drivers.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your attention.
>>> Paulo
>>>
>>  Have you opened the case and used compressed air to get the dust out?
>>
>>  How long has the CPU been in place under the heat sink.  The grease or
>> thermal paste used can dry out and lose heat conductivity.
>>
> Of course it is very likely there are some problems with the
> sensors/cooling system. But what I do not understand is why the
> temperature gets controlled, by the kernel perhaps, before first
> suspension and not after waking from suspension!
> I have tried Opensuse and Clear linux. All have the same problem.
> I have written a small script that successfully controls the temperature
> just changing the CPU's freqs. I don't know how to act on the other
> cooling systems. thermald, which was supposed to do this, fails miserabilly.
>
> Regards.
> Paulo
>

Find some docs first.

https://01.org/linux-thermal-daemon/documentation/introduction-thermal-daemon

It is possible the ThermalD package doesn't have sufficient XML files
to control every possible HW config. Maybe some platforms will require
hand programming.

Paul

Às 00:36 de 30/10/21, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
> Às 18:22 de 27/09/21, Paulo da Silva escreveu:
>> Hi all!
>>
>> From time to time - may be a month or a couple of hours - my computer
>> completely freezes. Everything stops. The screen shows the last image.
>> Not even the cursor moves. No keyboard key works including the
>> Alt-PrtScreen keys, like REISUB.
>>
>> I need to press the power on/off button for 5 secs to restart it.
>>
>> After restart the journalctl -b -b1 shows nothing at the freeze time.
>>
>> I changed my NVIDIA driver to 470. I also tried to put the driver in
>> ondemand status. No success. Sooner or later it freezes.
>>
>> Is there a way to get some information on what this is happening?
>>
>> I am using kubuntu 20.04.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>
> The current situation:
>
> 1. The sporadic "fan jets" are from the normal fan. Not the GPU one.
> 2. The "freezes" origin still unknown. Now I am almost sure that it does
> not come from the BIOS. In fact, during a freeze, there was one
> occurrence of several continuous "fan jets".
> 3. A couple of "fan jets" also occurred once while in the grub menu!
> 4. The uncontrollable rising of temperature of
> /sys/devices/virtual/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp at full cpu after
> suspend/wake also occurs with opensuse leap 15.3 live. Before
> suspending, that temperature is kept stable at 97ºC.
>
> I tried to use several kernels available in kubuntu, including an intel
> version 5.13, but I was unable to get them boot in graphic mode - nvidia
> 470. Some more ... time and I'll try it without Nvidia drivers.
>

1. Freezes completely disappeared after changing the kernel to ubuntu
hwe - currently 5.11.
2. "fan jets" also went out but not when changing the kernel. May be
something changed in some windows/pc control sw, during a windows
update, or some change of EC after I kept the PC disconnected from power
with the battery full discharged for more than 5 hours just to reset it.
3. The problem of the uncontrolled rising of temperature in acpitz zone
after waking from suspension when at "full cpu" still remains. I'm
controlling it with a python script changing upper frequencies of cpu cores.

Thanks to all interested in this problem.
Paulo