A pet peeve is those who presume that the SeaMonkey project is required
to solve all their problems not bothering to notify the defective site.

I'm currently having problems with:
https://ask.usda.gov
- displays a blank page
https://ask.usda.gov/s/contactsupport
- displays a blank page
https://www.bbb.org/file-a-complaint
- no response clicking on "I'd like to file a complaint ..."

I have established that *PART* of my problem is local configuration.
I have some questions:
1. Can others, using their local defaults, access these pages?
2. Years ago I had a link to a site that could do some level of
verification of correct HTML and JavaScript.
Does such a site still exist?
3. Does someone have email addresses for tech support of above sites?
4. Is there something similar to "about:config" that an produce a
*plain text* of all custom configurations?

This machine uses
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0
SeaMonkey/2.49.4
on Debian 9.13 with MATE desktop.
[My primary machine has later versions but also has hardware failure]

I routinely surf with cookies and JavaScript disabled.
Enabling them did not solve issues, but did demonstrate that sites don't
adequately check them.

TIA

P.S.
Back in the day my father gave me a CK722.
I spent 20+ years in tech support (primarily hardware QA/QC).
My first PC was a Commodore PET.
Netscape Navigator introduced me to the web.

Richard Owlett wrote:
> A pet peeve is those who presume that the SeaMonkey project is required
> to solve all their problems not bothering to notify the defective site.

One thing that I do is to maintain a second profile, where it's pretty
much untweaked, other than where I have the home page set to use the
bookmarks.htm file that comes from automatic export of bookmarks from
the primary profile, and that I discard all user history at the end of a
session.

Thus, if a page doesn't behave correctly in my primary profile, I can
switch over to the secondary profile (Tools -> Switch Profile). That's
a fast way of telling if the problem is related to all the tweaks I have
in my primary profile, or if issue is more generic to Seamonkey.

I checked the links that you posted, and in my tweaked copy of Seamonkey
2.53.18.1 -- even with NoScript active those pages render adequately on
initial load, and all the interaction seems to go OK if I completely
enable scripting. Based on this, I'm going to suggest that you should
work on making a permanent move to a new profile.

> This machine uses
> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.4
> on Debian 9.13 with MATE desktop.
> [My primary machine has later versions but also has hardware failure]

If it's a Seamonkey issue, I think it's pointless to try to complain to
a site operator, especially if you're still using using Seamonkey 2.49,
as you indicate here, and the headers of your posting show. Firefox 52.0
is *very* old. Firefox is now at version 122 and there are considerable
changes that have happened to Firefox since then, especially with the
introduction of Quantum in Firefox 55. And there are a lot more changes
relating to script handling and DRM usage that are more recent.

For most web site developers, Seamonkey doesn't exist, and even if they
know about it, it's irrelevant. It's simply too old and too few users
for them to care. I've found that with some financial institutions,
they may publicly state "we don't support Seamonkey", and set their
pages to reject connections that show Firefox versions older than a
particular level (often 78), although that's often a function of what
they're willing to provide support for, and where it's often possible to
get around those by setting the User Agent string to show a more recent
version of Firefox. And in current versions of Seamonkey, the version
of Firefox is set to show 91.0 as a way of getting around some of those
problems.

You may have reason to continue running 2.49.4, but if you do, I don't
think you have space to complain about sites that don't work in that
version. Even in 2.53.18.1, there are enough sites that don't work, and
to that end, I don't rely on Seamonkey exclusively. I keep a current
copy of Firefox on hand, and make occasional use of several other
browsers (although I avoid Chrome). I also note "hardware" issue and
your use of Debian 9, and the combination of those that cause you to run
2.49.4 are really the underlying issue.

(As an aside, I will suggest that it's time for you to consider
replacing your machine. Doing something brand-new that supports current
versions of software (including Debian) will likely serve you a lot
better, and doesn't have to be expensive. Last summer, I replaced a
vintage 2009 desktop box with an ASUS PN-51 series that's small enough
to put into my hand. I configured mine with a Ryzen 5 processor, and
all the other components are built in, as with a laptop. Even when I
specified 32 GB of RAM and a TB of SSD, the overall cost to me was
barely $500 USD. I run this machine with Mint, and am very happy with it.)

The state of the web is such that it's dominated by Google. There are
plenty of sites that assume Chrome, even to the point of exclusivity,
and where they don't bother testing with anything other than Chrome.
I've seen a few sites that work properly only in Chrome, and have
problems even with Chromium-derived browsers such as Opera or Edge. And
many of the updates to Firefox come from them essentially chasing
Chrome, both in the capacities of what Chrome will do, and sites that
are built with the expectation of browsers that have those capacities.
Using something like Seamonkey 2.49 with Debian 9 is perhaps not
entirely different than driving a Model T Ford on a modern multi-lane
highway.

For those of us that date back to the early days of the web, it's easy
for us to expect that browsers work that way, where the use is
predominantly in rendering static HTML content. But though we don't
hear the term "web 2.0" much anymore, that's the reality, where browsers
are delivering dynamic content through scripting, which is partly a mix
of access to the site's content as well as what is presented to the user.

Smith

On 01/31/2024 09:36 AM, NFN Smith wrote:
> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> A pet peeve is those who presume that the SeaMonkey project is
>> required
>> to solve all their problems not bothering to notify the defective site.
>
> One thing that I do is to maintain a second profile, where it's pretty
> much untweaked, other than where I have the home page set to use the
> bookmarks.htm file that comes from automatic export of bookmarks from
> the primary profile, and that I discard all user history at the end of a
> session.
>
[SNIP]

*ROFL*!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You just proved I'm getting old.
I even have a profile named "all defaults". Just didn't think of it.
Rest of day is appointment cluttered.
Test may have to wait until tomorrow.

As to the rest of your post we generally agree.

Thank you for your time.

On 01/31/2024 10:13 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 01/31/2024 09:36 AM, NFN Smith wrote:
>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>> A pet peeve is those who presume that the SeaMonkey project is
>>> required
>>> to solve all their problems not bothering to notify the defective site.
>>
>> One thing that I do is to maintain a second profile, where it's pretty
>> much untweaked, other than where I have the home page set to use the
>> bookmarks.htm file that comes from automatic export of bookmarks from
>> the primary profile, and that I discard all user history at the end of
>> a session.
>>
> [SNIP]
>
> *ROFL*!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> You just proved I'm getting old.
> I even have a profile named "all defaults". Just didn't think of it.

Have "egg on face". Profile dated just this past September ;{

> Rest of day is appointment cluttered.
> Test may have to wait until tomorrow.
>
> As to the rest of your post we generally agree.
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
>

On 2024-01-31, NFN Smith <worldoff9908@gmail.com> wrote:

> Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> A pet peeve is those who presume that the SeaMonkey project is required
>> to solve all their problems not bothering to notify the defective site.

On the other hand, if you do notify the defective site, they'll probably
tell you to get stuffed. I went to my local bank to complain when
Seamonkey 2.53.18 wouldn't work (and neither would the latest version
of Firefox). They're dedicated to Edge and Chrome. In fact, the first
queation the bank person asked me was, "What browser are you using?"
When I replied "Firefox", he said, "Never heard of it." (!!)
I walked out muttering things about digital racism - which gets
a rise out of people if they aren't Caucasian.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | The Internet is like a big city:
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | it has plenty of bright lights and
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | excitement, but also dark alleys
/ \ if you read it the right way. | down which the unwary get mugged.

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-01-31, NFN Smith <worldoff9908@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Richard Owlett wrote:
> >
> >> A pet peeve is those who presume that the SeaMonkey project is required
> >> to solve all their problems not bothering to notify the defective site.

> On the other hand, if you do notify the defective site, they'll probably
> tell you to get stuffed. I went to my local bank to complain when
> Seamonkey 2.53.18 wouldn't work (and neither would the latest version
> of Firefox). They're dedicated to Edge and Chrome. In fact, the first
> queation the bank person asked me was, "What browser are you using?"
> When I replied "Firefox", he said, "Never heard of it." (!!)
> I walked out muttering things about digital racism - which gets
> a rise out of people if they aren't Caucasian.

Being SeaMonkeyer is even worse! :(
--
"Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the Lord ... they will eat the fruit of their ways and be filled with the fruit of their schemes." --Proverbs 1:29,31. Hibernated 7.5 hrs. b4 incoming rain!
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Richard Owlett wrote on 1/2/24 1:28 am:
> A pet peeve is those who presume that the SeaMonkey project is required
> to solve all their problems not bothering to notify the defective site.
>
> I'm currently having problems with:
>    https://ask.usda.gov
>     - displays a blank page

WFM!! SM 2.53.18.1

>    https://ask.usda.gov/s/contactsupport
>     - displays a blank page

WFM - Customer Support - Call (833) ONE-USDA (202) 720-2791 or E-mail
askusda@usda.gov or "Chat with Us".

>    https://www.bbb.org/file-a-complaint
>     - no response clicking on "I'd like to file a complaint ..."

WFM .... selecting "I'd like to file a complaint ..." brings up an
expanded section which reads "BBB can assist you with that. We'll ask
you a series of questions designed to help us help you work with the
business with which you have a dispute. Be as specific as possible as
you answer the questions--this can make the process work much more
quickly and efficiently." and has a "File a Complaint" Button.

*Note I am not in U.S. of A. so might be getting different results to you".

SM 2.53.18.1
>
> I have established that *PART* of my problem is local configuration.
> I have some questions:
>    1. Can others, using their local defaults, access these pages?
>    2. Years ago I had a link to a site that could do some level of
>       verification of correct HTML and JavaScript.
>       Does such a site still exist?
>    3. Does someone have email addresses for tech support of above sites?
>    4. Is there something similar to "about:config" that an produce a
>       *plain text* of all custom configurations?
>
> This machine uses
> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0
> SeaMonkey/2.49.4
> on Debian 9.13 with MATE desktop.
> [My primary machine has later versions but also has hardware failure]
>
> I routinely surf with cookies and JavaScript disabled.
> Enabling them did not solve issues, but did demonstrate that sites don't
> adequately check them.
>
> TIA
>
> P.S.
> Back in the day my father gave me a CK722.
> I spent 20+ years in tech support (primarily hardware QA/QC).
> My first PC was a Commodore PET.
> Netscape Navigator introduced me to the web.

--
Daniel