rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 01:20:09 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
> > A thrall may be a troll, but I think a shill would be more likely to be
> > such. Some shills can get quite shrill when they troll.
>
> <https://sites.pitt.edu/~dash/rig.html>
>
> She sat her down in the middle of the floor;
> beside her sat the son of the house:
> they chatted and whispered, their bed preparing --
> Thrall and Bond-maid -- the long day through.
>
> 9.
> Joyous lived they and reared their children.
> Thus they called them: Brawler, Cowherd,
> Boor and Horsefly, Lewd and Lustful,
> Stout and Stumpy, Sluggard, Swarthy,
> Lout and Leggy. They fashioned fences,
> they dunged the meadows, swine they herded,
> goats they tended and turf they dug.
>
> 10.
> Daughters were there, -- Loggy and Cloggy,
> Lumpy-leggy, and Eagle-nose,
> Whiner, Bondwoman, Oaken-peggy,
> Tatter-coat and the Crane-shanked maid.
> Thence are come the generations of thralls.
>
> This is the Olive Bray translation. I don't know how accurate her
> translation of the names of Thrall and Thir's children from Old Norse is
> but it adds some spice.
>
> "According to a prose preface to the poem Rígs?ula, Rig is associated with
> -- perhaps another name for -- the god Heimdall. In any event, the god Rig
> is an enigma. Although name Rig is mentioned only in the poem Rígs?ula, he
> was the progenitor of three social classes plus royalty, as related in the
> preceding account.
> Slaves and servants, the offspring of Thrall.
> Freemen and farmers, the offspring of Churl (Karl).
> Nobles, the offspring of Earl (Jarl).
> Royalty. The final birth described is that of the boy Kon (Konungr), whose
> name means "king." It is noteworthy that the name Rig signifies "king" in
> Irish. It is, of course, Rig's cohabitation in various settings that gives
> rise to all the social classes."
>
> There was no DEI in those days. It was understood that in the natural
> world some were born to shovel pig shit.
>

Interesting - that's today's "thing that I learned today", thank you.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon just is.

Le 27-04-2024, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> a écrit :
> Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>> No. He's a troll. His purpose is to have fun in pissing off Linux users.
>> As he knows a little bit Linux, he manages pretty well to mix right
>> Linux issues with past or false issues. He doesn't care about your
>> choices. He only cares about the way you answer to his attacks. I'm
>> really surprised it looks like I'm the only one to see it.
>
> You exaggerate your uniqueness.

I'm not that sure about that point.

> We have been laughing at the DFS monomaniac for a couple decades.

Yes, so what? A lot of people laugh at FR/NV/DG/LP/whatever but it's not
the same. FR/NV/DG/LP/whatever is a first class moron living in his head
who believes what he claims. Unlike DFS who is often wrong but he knows
he's wrong on some subjects. And it looks like everyone here wants to
make him admit when he's wrong as if he didn't knew it already.

> Anyway, sometimes responding to a troll is a good way to inform people
> about the things done with Linux.

Sometimes when there are a lot of new people in a group, it's a good
idea to give them some information. But on usenet, and particularly on
cola, there aren't new people. You can answer anyone if you want, I see
no issue with that. But seing someone trying to explain something to
someone who already knows it, is just funny.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 08:21:54 -0000 (UTC), Simon wrote:

> On 2024-04-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 01:20:58 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 18:07:10 -0000 (UTC), Simon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Netflix also think is it acceptable.
>>>
>>> Netflix at least is giving you something new each time you use it.
>>> Microsoft is wanting you to pay over and over for the same old thing.
>>
>> Perhaps I've been lucky but so far the ad supported Netflix model has
>> had infrequent ads with one ad per break and a mix of ads. Amazon's
>> FreeVee will feature the same damn Liberty Mutual and obscure drug ads
>> over and over every 10 minutes.
>
> I don't mind them offering ads and an adfree rate, but it was sneaky
> they put all the prices up to make the advert price fit in.

I was on the DVD plan until the bitter end so going to the ad supported
streaming version was less expensive. The catch is with DVDs I could watch
'Midsommer Murders', 'Line of Duty', 'Blue Bloods' and so forth. With
streaming it's 'You need a BritBox, Acorn TV, and Paramount+, etc
subscription'.

On 2024-04-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 08:21:54 -0000 (UTC), Simon wrote:
>
>> On 2024-04-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 01:20:58 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 18:07:10 -0000 (UTC), Simon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Netflix also think is it acceptable.
>>>>
>>>> Netflix at least is giving you something new each time you use it.
>>>> Microsoft is wanting you to pay over and over for the same old thing.
>>>
>>> Perhaps I've been lucky but so far the ad supported Netflix model has
>>> had infrequent ads with one ad per break and a mix of ads. Amazon's
>>> FreeVee will feature the same damn Liberty Mutual and obscure drug ads
>>> over and over every 10 minutes.
>>
>> I don't mind them offering ads and an adfree rate, but it was sneaky
>> they put all the prices up to make the advert price fit in.
>
> I was on the DVD plan until the bitter end so going to the ad supported
> streaming version was less expensive. The catch is with DVDs I could watch
> 'Midsommer Murders', 'Line of Duty', 'Blue Bloods' and so forth. With
> streaming it's 'You need a BritBox, Acorn TV, and Paramount+, etc
> subscription'.

I have seen that on other things too, always need something else to continue how
you used to, and for only a little more than you used to pay :-(
--
Simon

RLU: 222126

Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>> Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>
>>> No. He's a troll. His purpose is to have fun in pissing off Linux users.
>>> As he knows a little bit Linux, he manages pretty well to mix right
>>> Linux issues with past or false issues. He doesn't care about your
>>> choices. He only cares about the way you answer to his attacks. I'm
>>> really surprised it looks like I'm the only one to see it.
>>
>> You exaggerate your uniqueness.
>
> I'm not that sure about that point.

You should be sure of that point.

>> We have been laughing at the DFS monomaniac for a couple decades.
>
>Yes, so what? A lot of people laugh at FR/NV/DG/LP/whatever but it's not
>the same. FR/NV/DG/LP/whatever is a first class moron living in his head
>who believes what he claims.

You should not be sure of that point.

>Unlike DFS who is often wrong but he knows he's wrong on some subjects.

He's a liar, a shameless jackass.

>And it looks like everyone here wants to
>make him admit when he's wrong as if he didn't knew it already.

Of course everyone here knows that DumFSck and Fabian are ridiculous
trolls. But trolling, and the tormenting of trolls, is part of the
fun of usenet, as you know.

--
'Why do "advocates" think OEMs and retailers should be forced to sell
Linux systems?' - DumFSck, lying shamelessly

On 2024-04-27, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
> Le 26-04-2024, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> a écrit :
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 19:45:40 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> Windows wins EASILY and HUGELY on software and games ...
>>
>> Who cares?
>
> The gamers. For now, he's pretty right, but things are really improving
> on the subject.
>
>> I am quite happy with Linux, and sick of Windows.
>
> Like a lot of people.
>
>> DFS is like a gushing moist groupie claiming that a pop singer is best
>> because more people like the singer's stuff more than some actually
>> good music.
>
> No. He's a troll. His purpose is to have fun in pissing off Linux users.
> As he knows a little bit Linux, he manages pretty well to mix right
> Linux issues with past or false issues. He doesn't care about your
> choices. He only cares about the way you answer to his attacks. I'm
> really surprised it looks like I'm the only one to see it.

He also dredges up stuff from decades ago and pretends it's current news.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 08:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Simon wrote:

> If I could get the vpn configuration out of Windows I could use anything
> as all I use is done in a browser now anyway.

Trouble is, there is no real “standard” VPN (other than IPSEC, which is
pretty scary to even think about). I suppose they’re using L2TP? From what
I gather, it’s crap, but it’s standard Windows crap.

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 08:21:54 -0000 (UTC), Simon wrote:

> I know adverts are never going away but if I am paying surely I deserve
> not have to watch them? As for seeing adverts every time I open the
> start menu that is just awful.

Microsoft is banking on the fact that most Windows users would rather keep
using it and keep complaining about it rather than switch to something
else.

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 09:50:23 -0000 (UTC), Simon wrote:

> We knew MS wanted to go to subscription and it would be a stretch to
> make windows a monthly payment, if they can generate ad revenue and
> money from your data they can put it off, for now.

If they make the ads optional, and too many people turn them off, then the
next step is likely to be for Windows to become full-on rentware.

On 2024-04-28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 08:14:28 -0000 (UTC), Simon wrote:
>
>> If I could get the vpn configuration out of Windows I could use anything
>> as all I use is done in a browser now anyway.
>
> Trouble is, there is no real “standard” VPN (other than IPSEC, which is
> pretty scary to even think about). I suppose they’re using L2TP? From what
> I gather, it’s crap, but it’s standard Windows crap.
I am not IT at this job and worry my probing and testing or settings may end
with no job, so a basic test failed and then I just accepted I have to use
Windows for work.

--
Simon

RLU: 222126

On 2024-04-28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 08:21:54 -0000 (UTC), Simon wrote:
>
>> I know adverts are never going away but if I am paying surely I deserve
>> not have to watch them? As for seeing adverts every time I open the
>> start menu that is just awful.
>
> Microsoft is banking on the fact that most Windows users would rather keep
> using it and keep complaining about it rather than switch to something
> else.

Every time MS introduce something new I think surely this is going to be the
tipping point, but you are probably right, this is not going to be enough for
most people, so they don't worry.

--
Simon

RLU: 222126

On 2024-04-28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 09:50:23 -0000 (UTC), Simon wrote:
>
>> We knew MS wanted to go to subscription and it would be a stretch to
>> make windows a monthly payment, if they can generate ad revenue and
>> money from your data they can put it off, for now.
>
> If they make the ads optional, and too many people turn them off, then the
> next step is likely to be for Windows to become full-on rentware.

True, I can't imagine how much work is involved in processing and verifying
payments for that many people.
--
Simon

RLU: 222126

Le 28-04-2024, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a écrit :
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 08:21:54 -0000 (UTC), Simon wrote:
>
>> I know adverts are never going away but if I am paying surely I deserve
>> not have to watch them? As for seeing adverts every time I open the
>> start menu that is just awful.
>
> Microsoft is banking on the fact that most Windows users would rather keep
> using it and keep complaining about it rather than switch to something
> else.

Sometime, they can change when they see they are wrong. Something like
15/20 years ago, they abandoned the support of I don't remember which
Windows version, so it became impossible to sell computers with this
version of Windows.

It was the day eeePC came along, the new version of Windows couldn't run
on it, only the old unavailable version could. But the last version of
Ubuntu was running very well. And the eeePC with Ubuntu sold very well
and seeing that Microsoft extended the old version of Windows. That way,
people could buy eeePC with Windows on it.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

On 4/27/2024 4:10 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> Le 26-04-2024, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> a écrit :
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 19:45:40 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> Windows wins EASILY and HUGELY on software and games ...
>>
>> Who cares?
>
> The gamers. For now, he's pretty right, but things are really improving
> on the subject.
>
>> I am quite happy with Linux, and sick of Windows.
>
> Like a lot of people.
>
>> DFS is like a gushing moist groupie claiming that a pop singer is best
>> because more people like the singer's stuff more than some actually
>> good music.
>
> No. He's a troll. His purpose is to have fun in pissing off Linux users.
> As he knows a little bit Linux, he manages pretty well to mix right
> Linux issues with past or false issues. He doesn't care about your
> choices. He only cares about the way you answer to his attacks. I'm
> really surprised it looks like I'm the only one to see it.

You're onto me...

But I also like to have real discussions about Linux and OSes and
programming and other technology.

On 28 Apr 2024 17:53:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> It was the day eeePC came along, the new version of Windows couldn't run
> on it, only the old unavailable version could. But the last version of
> Ubuntu was running very well. And the eeePC with Ubuntu sold very well
> and seeing that Microsoft extended the old version of Windows. That way,
> people could buy eeePC with Windows on it.

The Eee PC 4G Surf was first released with Xandros.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xandros

Xandros derived from Debian as does Ubuntu. I replaced it with Q4OS last
month since Xandros didn't support WPA2. It runs, more or less. I can't
imagine XP on that hardware.

Le 28-04-2024, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
> On 28 Apr 2024 17:53:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> It was the day eeePC came along, the new version of Windows couldn't run
>> on it, only the old unavailable version could. But the last version of
>> Ubuntu was running very well. And the eeePC with Ubuntu sold very well
>> and seeing that Microsoft extended the old version of Windows. That way,
>> people could buy eeePC with Windows on it.
>
> The Eee PC 4G Surf was first released with Xandros.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xandros
>
> Xandros derived from Debian as does Ubuntu. I replaced it with Q4OS last
> month since Xandros didn't support WPA2. It runs, more or less. I can't
> imagine XP on that hardware.

Thanks for the correction. I don't know why I remembered it to be
Ubuntu, it's a long time ago.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>> ... it's the apps that sell the OS, people want M$ Office and
>> Photoshop.
>
>Photoshop is an irrelevance to 99% of Windows users.
>
>Put it this way: if all Photoshop users were to convert to Linux, it would
>not make a significant difference to Linux’s market share.

I'd use it if I had that kind of money to spend every year, and wanted
to run Winblows. It was OK to try out for part of a year that I paid
for. But more efficient to use paint.net or WinGIMP, or the native
GIMP for Linux as I do now.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 01:17 this Saturday (GMT):
> On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 14:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 00:15 this Friday (GMT):
>>
>>> And for Microsoft to be worried enough that it has been demoing a new
>>> “Handheld Mode” for Windows ... which has yet to progress beyond the
>>> vapourware stage.
>>
>> Oh, really? I don't remember hearing anything about that.
>
> I think it was around a year ago. They may have given up.

I'm sure they dropped it in favor of the AI stuff.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 28 Apr 2024 18:24:43 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> On 28 Apr 2024 17:53:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> It was the day eeePC came along, the new version of Windows couldn't
>> run on it, only the old unavailable version could. But the last version
>> of Ubuntu was running very well. And the eeePC with Ubuntu sold very
>> well and seeing that Microsoft extended the old version of Windows.
>> That way, people could buy eeePC with Windows on it.
>
> The Eee PC 4G Surf was first released with Xandros.
>
> ... I can't imagine XP on that hardware.

I have an original-model Eee 701 with Xandros on it, still here in this
office. I was able to put Kubuntu on an SD card and boot off that, without
disturbing the Xandros install. Kind of fun to see KDE 4 with all those 3D
effects running at fully-interactive speeds, when newly-released Vista
could manage its “Aero Glass” equivalent only on higher-end, much more
expensive hardware.

Microsoft revived XP specifically to fight back against the Linux
netbooks. Whereas my Eee booted off an SSD, I think they had to have hard
drives for the Windows versions. Because Windows couldn’t run without a
swap file, and continual writing to the swap file would shorten the life
of an SSD.

On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 19:00:02 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 01:17 this Saturday (GMT):
>
>> On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 14:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 00:15 this Friday (GMT):
>>>
>>>> And for Microsoft to be worried enough that it has been demoing a new
>>>> “Handheld Mode” for Windows ... which has yet to progress beyond the
>>>> vapourware stage.
>>>
>>> Oh, really? I don't remember hearing anything about that.
>>
>> I think it was around a year ago. They may have given up.
>
> I'm sure they dropped it in favor of the AI stuff.

Gaming is a real thing. Hand-held gaming is a real thing. AI is still ...
up in the AIr.

(See what I did there?)

On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 14:53:34 -0400, Joel wrote:

> I'd use [Photoshop] if I had that kind of money to spend every year, and
> wanted to run Winblows. ...
> But more efficient to use paint.net or WinGIMP, or the native GIMP
> for Linux as I do now.

GIMP has native support for deep pixels (16/32 bits per component and
floating-point), like in EXR files. Photoshop still has to struggle with
that through import/export and downsampling steps.

On 2024-04-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On 28 Apr 2024 17:53:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> It was the day eeePC came along, the new version of Windows couldn't run
>> on it, only the old unavailable version could. But the last version of
>> Ubuntu was running very well. And the eeePC with Ubuntu sold very well
>> and seeing that Microsoft extended the old version of Windows. That way,
>> people could buy eeePC with Windows on it.
>
> The Eee PC 4G Surf was first released with Xandros.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xandros
>
> Xandros derived from Debian as does Ubuntu. I replaced it with Q4OS last
> month since Xandros didn't support WPA2. It runs, more or less. I can't
> imagine XP on that hardware.

Xandros is the other distribution I bought at one time. I couldn't remember
the name. (It was after Xandros had given up and I was already using Linux
Mint — it was more of a curiosity thing.)

Carry on. Sorry to interrupt.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote at 18:53 this Sunday (GMT):
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> ... it's the apps that sell the OS, people want M$ Office and
>>> Photoshop.
>>
>>Photoshop is an irrelevance to 99% of Windows users.
>>
>>Put it this way: if all Photoshop users were to convert to Linux, it would
>>not make a significant difference to Linux’s market share.
>
>
> I'd use it if I had that kind of money to spend every year, and wanted
> to run Winblows. It was OK to try out for part of a year that I paid
> for. But more efficient to use paint.net or WinGIMP, or the native
> GIMP for Linux as I do now.

Agreed, though I got it for "free" thru an education license.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> wrote at 08:17 this Sunday (GMT):
> On 2024-04-28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 08:21:54 -0000 (UTC), Simon wrote:
>>
>>> I know adverts are never going away but if I am paying surely I deserve
>>> not have to watch them? As for seeing adverts every time I open the
>>> start menu that is just awful.
>>
>> Microsoft is banking on the fact that most Windows users would rather keep
>> using it and keep complaining about it rather than switch to something
>> else.
>
> Every time MS introduce something new I think surely this is going to be the
> tipping point, but you are probably right, this is not going to be enough for
> most people, so they don't worry.

My computer is far below the W11 specs, even if I /wanted/ to run it :P
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> wrote at 08:19 this Sunday (GMT):
> On 2024-04-28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 09:50:23 -0000 (UTC), Simon wrote:
>>
>>> We knew MS wanted to go to subscription and it would be a stretch to
>>> make windows a monthly payment, if they can generate ad revenue and
>>> money from your data they can put it off, for now.
>>
>> If they make the ads optional, and too many people turn them off, then the
>> next step is likely to be for Windows to become full-on rentware.
>
> True, I can't imagine how much work is involved in processing and verifying
> payments for that many people.

Would it? I'd think they would just use signed license keys you download
from their servers.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom