For the permanent Usenet record... and for others to discuss...

*Sideloading is not evil* ...in fact... *sideloading is normal*

Bear in mind on the topic of "sideloading", there is only a single common
consumer operating system that doesn't allow you to go to any developer's
URL pointing to a package to load it. Only iOS. Just iOS. Nobody else.

It needs to be repeated because "sideloading" isn't anything special.
*No other operating system disallows installing a package by URL but iOS*

The reason I make this point is that sideloading isn't something evel; it's
not something risky; it's not something special. It's quite normal.

It's only considered "evil" on one consumer operating system & one alone.

We could go into _why_ Apple considers installing an executable by URL
evil, since it plays into Apple's overall strategy of making money off of
limiting the consumers' choices - but suffice to say sideloading is normal.

*Only in one operating system is installing a non-mothership app evil*
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to faithfully explain that sideloading is not evil.

On 4/2/2023 4:49 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> For the permanent Usenet record... and for others to discuss...
>   *Sideloading is not evil* ...in fact... *sideloading is normal*
>
> Bear in mind on the topic of "sideloading", there is only a single
> common consumer operating system that doesn't allow you to go to any
> developer's URL pointing to a package to load it. Only iOS. Just iOS.
> Nobody else.
>
> It needs to be repeated because "sideloading" isn't anything special.
> *No other operating system disallows installing a package by URL but iOS*
>
> The reason I make this point is that sideloading isn't something evel;
> it's not something risky; it's not something special. It's quite normal.
>
> It's only considered "evil" on one consumer operating system & one alone.
>
> We could go into _why_ Apple considers installing an executable by URL
> evil, since it plays into Apple's overall strategy of making money off
> of limiting the consumers' choices - but suffice to say sideloading is
> normal.
>  *Only in one operating system is installing a non-mothership app evil*

Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:

> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

On 2023-04-03 19:04, Big Dog wrote:
> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>
>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>
> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> writes:

> On 2023-04-03 19:04, Big Dog wrote:
>> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>>
>>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a
>> row.
>
> I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.

But you do not have to do the equivalent for:
Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Curious indeed.

--
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

On 2023-04-03 21:30, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> writes:
>
>> On 2023-04-03 19:04, Big Dog wrote:
>>> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a
>>> row.
>>
>> I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.
>
> But you do not have to do the equivalent for:
> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>
> Curious indeed.
>

On is purely opinion and one states a testable proposition.

Does that help you understand?

On 2023-04-03 21:30, Cecil Westerhof wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> writes:
>
>> On 2023-04-03 19:04, Big Dog wrote:
>>> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a
>>> row.
>>
>> I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.
>
> But you do not have to do the equivalent for:
> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>
> Curious indeed.
>

But since you asked:

<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/android-malware-apps-with-2-million-installs-spotted-on-google-play/>

<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/new-hook-android-malware-lets-hackers-remotely-control-your-phone/>

<https://www.tomsguide.com/news/hackers-have-developed-a-clever-new-way-to-add-malware-to-android-apps>

On 2023-04-04, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>> On 2023-04-03 19:04, Big Dog wrote:
>>>> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>>>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a
>>>> row.
>>>
>>> I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.
>>
>> But you do not have to do the equivalent for:
>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>>
>> Curious indeed.
>>
>
> But since you asked:
>
> <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/android-malware-apps-with-2-million-installs-spotted-on-google-play/>
>
> <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/new-hook-android-malware-lets-hackers-remotely-control-your-phone/>
>
> <https://www.tomsguide.com/news/hackers-have-developed-a-clever-new-way-to-add-malware-to-android-apps>

Knowing how Apple users never understand security issues because they don't
actually read anything before they respond to it - they don't ever think
(which is why they're so excited by emoji and they ignore all iOS bugs).

Curious that not a single one of those "references" compares iOS malware to
Android malware. Maybe this alan didn't read the topic before posting?

As an example, I put into Google the same title of the last url above and
just changed Android to iOS and that alone, not surprisingly, found far
more similar articles but for iOS and not for Android.

These are just as meaningless but to make the point clear how poorly the
iOS devices handle security, let's just list them exactly as alan did.

https://thehackernews.com/2020/03/iphone-iOS-spyware.html
https://thehackernews.com/2019/04/exodus-ios-malware.html
https://thehackernews.com/2016/03/how-to-hack-iphone.html
https://thehackernews.com/2016/01/ios-apps-jspatch-hack.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/apple-ios-malware-apps.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/xcodeghost-ios-malware.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/ios-malware-attack.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/ios-malware-attack.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/09/ios-malware-cyber-attack.html
https://thehackernews.com/2014/11/suspected-wirelurker-ios-malware.html
https://thehackernews.com/2014/08/adthief-chinese-malware-infects-over.html
https://thehackernews.com/2020/03/iphone-iOS-spyware.html

And that's just from one up to date web site.

I'm not saying this proves how insecure iOS is nowadays compared to
Android. I'm just saying alan's response was just as meaningless.

Maybe alan didn't read the thread before he had responded?

Not only is sideloading normal on almost all computers, but the iOS devices
have been far worse in terms of malware than Android for many years now.

I guess alan thought we wouldn't notice he has no basis for his claims.
Besides, the topic is sideloading, which all normal operating systems do.

Andy Burnelli hat am 03.04.2023 um 01:49 geschrieben:
> For the permanent Usenet record... and for others to discuss...
>
> *Sideloading is not evil* ...in fact... *sideloading is normal*
>
> Bear in mind on the topic of "sideloading", there is only a single common
> consumer operating system that doesn't allow you to go to any developer's
> URL pointing to a package to load it. Only iOS. Just iOS. Nobody else.
>
> It needs to be repeated because "sideloading" isn't anything special.
> *No other operating system disallows installing a package by URL but iOS*
>
> The reason I make this point is that sideloading isn't something evel; it's
> not something risky; it's not something special. It's quite normal.
>
> It's only considered "evil" on one consumer operating system & one alone.
>
> We could go into _why_ Apple considers installing an executable by URL
> evil, since it plays into Apple's overall strategy of making money off of
> limiting the consumers' choices - but suffice to say sideloading is normal.
>
> *Only in one operating system is installing a non-mothership app evil*

Imagine someone paying good money for linux or windows pro and then they
can only buy all their software from redhat or microsoft & nobody else.

That's ios. One company alone determines ALL your software choices.

Who would put up with that on windows or on linux or on android?

It's no wonder ios has so many software holes compared to android.

Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

> Imagine someone paying good money for linux or windows pro…

Anyone paying for Linux or Windows - with good or bad money - gets what
they deserve.

Operating Systems are free now for consumers. Companies pay for Windows
support and companies pay for Linux support.

No one cares about Operating Systems any more. No one buys any computer
to run an Operating System.

Besides, nearly all computers these days run Unix. Unix runs on everything
from IBM mainframes to Apple watches. All phones. All tablets. Macs.
Linux servers. The entire internet.

The planet runs on Unix. Anyone paying to be stranded on Windows Island is
a fool.

On 4/3/2023 7:04 PM, Big Dog wrote:

<snip>

> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

It's not true when you include sideloading.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

In article <u0hdr1$3f65k$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> > Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.
>
> It's not true when you include sideloading.

it's also not true when you don't.

<https://www.zdnet.com/article/play-store-identified-as-main-distributio
n-vector-for-most-android-malware/>
The official Google Play Store has been identified as the primary
source of malware installs on Android devices in a recent academic
study ‹ considered the largest one of its kind carried out to date.
....
The results showed that around 67% of the malicious app
installs researchers identified came from the Google Play Store.

<https://www.tomsguide.com/news/malware-hits-10-million-android-users-de
lete-these-apps-right-now>
Malware and adware continue to be a major problem on the Play Store

On 2023-04-04, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <u0hdr1$3f65k$1@dont-email.me>, sms
><scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.
>>
>> It's not true when you include sideloading.
>
> it's also not true when you don't.
>
><https://www.zdnet.com/article/play-store-identified-as-main-distributio
> n-vector-for-most-android-malware/>
> The official Google Play Store has been identified as the primary
> source of malware installs on Android devices in a recent academic
> study ‹ considered the largest one of its kind carried out to date.
> ...
> The results showed that around 67% of the malicious app
> installs researchers identified came from the Google Play Store.
>
><https://www.tomsguide.com/news/malware-hits-10-million-android-users-de
> lete-these-apps-right-now>
> Malware and adware continue to be a major problem on the Play Store

Bets on whether sms adds these to his little document?

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Am 04.04.23 um 04:04 schrieb Big Dog:
> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>
>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>
> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

Burnelli, you are a stupid crétin.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 4/3/2023 7:04 PM, Big Dog wrote:
> On 4/3/2023 9:52 PM, John wrote:
>
>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>
> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

LMAO!!

On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 07:56:32 -0700, sms wrote:

>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.
>
> It's not true when you include sideloading.

When is the last time you owned an Android phone & installed an app?
If it's more than five years ago, then that's why you said that. :->

Things have changed a lot in the last five years with Google Play Protect.

If it's more than five years since you have touched an Android phone, you
need to catch up on how Google has improved the GPP instant & daily scans.
https://developers.google.com/android/play-protect

Look at the part where it makes no distinction between Google Play Store
apps and apps sideloaded from outside the Google Play Store. Same scan.

Let me know if you need to know more because it's way better than what
Apple does as Apple doesn't scan every day all the apps on the device.

Bob Campbell <nunya@none.none> writes:

> No one cares about Operating Systems any more. No one buys any computer
> to run an Operating System.

It seems I am no one.

--
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

On 4/4/2023 9:04 AM, John wrote:
>>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>>
>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.
>
> LMAO!!

The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.

There are so many holes in iOS that the federal government stopped asking
for a back door because iOS is so insecure the front door was already open.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Beyond Meat and other such vegetarian meat substitutes
represent the ultimate in ultra-processed foods. Real
meat is natural. Beyond Meat is definitely not.

On 2023-04-04 09:46, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 4/4/2023 9:04 AM, John wrote:
>>>> Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
>>>
>>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.
>>
>> LMAO!!
>
> The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
> iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.

Proof please.

>
> There are so many holes in iOS that the federal government stopped asking
> for a back door because iOS is so insecure the front door was already open.

Proof please.

On 4/4/2023 9:50 AM, Alan wrote:
>> The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
>> iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.
>
> Proof please.

Over the past five years the number of open holes in iOS has been huge.

If you don't believe it, then you look up the number of zero day holes in
iOS (which is a dozen to fifteen a year for five years in a row!) and
compare that to Android which isn't even half of that.

Then look up the exploited holes, and you'll find half the iOS holes are
exploited because it takes Apple so long to get a release out the door.

This is widely known statistics where I'm not your personal secretary.
Either believe what everyone already knows or ignore them.

If you want to dispute stats, go and find your own stats for that since
you're the only one who doesn't know iOS has twice the holes of Android.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Beyond Meat and other such vegetarian meat substitutes
represent the ultimate in ultra-processed foods. Real
meat is natural. Beyond Meat is definitely not.

On 4/4/2023 9:39 AM, Maxmillian wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 07:56:32 -0700, sms wrote:
>
>>> Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.
>>
>> It's not true when you include sideloading.
>
> When is the last time you owned an Android phone & installed an app?
> If it's more than five years ago, then that's why you said that. :->

Uh, I own multiple Android phones right now. A Pixel 7 Pro is my main
Android device. I do sideload apps, on occasion, and use F-Droid.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 4/4/2023 10:47 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 4/4/2023 9:50 AM, Alan wrote:
>>> The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
>>> iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.
>>
>> Proof please.
>
> Over the past five years the number of open holes in iOS has been huge.
>
> If you don't believe it, then you look up the number of zero day holes in
> iOS (which is a dozen to fifteen a year for five years in a row!) and
> compare that to Android which isn't even half of that.
>
> Then look up the exploited holes, and you'll find half the iOS holes are
> exploited because it takes Apple so long to get a release out the door.
>
> This is widely known statistics where I'm not your personal secretary.
> Either believe what everyone already knows or ignore them.
>
> If you want to dispute stats, go and find your own stats for that since
> you're the only one who doesn't know iOS has twice the holes of Android.

All true, but the discussion was not about zero-day exploits it was
about side-loading apps.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 2023-04-04 10:47, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 4/4/2023 9:50 AM, Alan wrote:
>>> The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
>>> iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.
>>
>> Proof please.
>
> Over the past five years the number of open holes in iOS has been huge.

That's an "ASSERTION"

>
> If you don't believe it, then you look up the number of zero day holes in
> iOS (which is a dozen to fifteen a year for five years in a row!) and
> compare that to Android which isn't even half of that.

No...

....YOU look it up.

You're the one making the claims.

>
> Then look up the exploited holes, and you'll find half the iOS holes are
> exploited because it takes Apple so long to get a release out the door.
>
> This is widely known statistics where I'm not your personal secretary.
> Either believe what everyone already knows or ignore them.
>
> If you want to dispute stats, go and find your own stats for that since
> you're the only one who doesn't know iOS has twice the holes of Android.

You've presented no stats at all.

On 2023-04-04 10:17, Bob Campbell wrote:

> Besides, nearly all computers these days run Unix. Unix runs on everything
> from IBM mainframes to Apple watches. All phones. All tablets. Macs.
> Linux servers. The entire internet.
>
> The planet runs on Unix. Anyone paying to be stranded on Windows Island is
> a fool.

The planet runs on Linux. Embedded, database, servers, etc.

Unix ≠ Linux.

Windows isn't going anywhere soon. About 70% of the desktop market.
This is down overall over the years, but it's not tumbling.

While Mac OS enjoyed a rise since about the iPhone era (or the intel
era, pick one), it's pretty much plateau'd out.

Linux saturated in the desktop market a long time ago.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 11:27:20 -0700, sms wrote:

>> When is the last time you owned an Android phone & installed an app?
>> If it's more than five years ago, then that's why you said that. :->
>
> Uh, I own multiple Android phones right now. A Pixel 7 Pro is my main
> Android device. I do sideload apps, on occasion, and use F-Droid.

Oh. Sorry. I thought you were an iPhone owner because of what you said
about sideloading malware which usually uninformed iPhone owners say.

Maybe you just didn't know that Google Play Protect scans for malware on
Android such that there is no risk from sideloading any different from
getting the app off the Google Play Store. It's the same scan for both.

Did you click on the link for what Google Play Protect does for you?
https://developers.google.com/android/play-protect

If you like, you can ask me questions about GPP after you read that link.